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Everyman
2007-12-24, 01:23 AM
I will be running a short campaign (3-6 four hour sessions), and am considering using the gestalt system. However, I can't seem to find any sage advice on using the gestalt system. What I am really looking for is...

1) Advice regarding normal CR and projected CR for a gestalt.

2) Advice on EXP and other rewards

3) Experiences or stories from your own campaigns from which I could learn from.

I am sad to say that I am not entirely sure how to handle something like this.

Jannex
2007-12-24, 03:17 AM
A couple of general policy suggestions for handling antagonists in gestalt games...


Standard monsters (without class levels) should probably be at least 1 or 2 CR higher than you would use in the same situation against a non-gestalt party
It's often a good idea to give all monsters and enemy NPCs maximum HP
Any enemy NPCs of note should be gestalt, if they're to provide a reasonable challenge to the PCs


Experience can probably be handled largely as normal, though with the CR of non-gestalted monsters adjusted down a couple of points.

One of the important things to remember is that your PCs will have a great deal more options available to them, though they can still only take a finite number of actions in a round. Keep an eye on caster PrCs, since these can get a bit ridiculous in the hands of an experienced powergamer (and, of course, a gestalt character should get no more than one PrC per level). I would suggest discouraging or disallowing multiple arcane caster classes in the same level (like Wizard//Warmage, or the like).

Oh, and fractional BAB and saves are a very good idea.

Reel On, Love
2007-12-24, 03:43 AM
Keep a closer on powerful material and be more willing to disallow things. For example, a wizard/Incantatrix is ridiculously good... but a Wizard/Incantatrix//Archivist is like unto a tiny god, with persisted absolutely everything, capable of smashing the melee characters in melee and being almost impossible to hurt while remaining a cheesy spellcaster.
In fact, "only one full spellcasting class" is a wise restriction.

Fractional BAB/saves should always be the default assumption, but especially in Gestalt (otherwise, a Wizard 20//Fighter 1/Sorcerer 19 gets full BAB, for example).

mabriss lethe
2007-12-24, 03:52 AM
Tangent: That reminds me. I've been itching to play a warlock/spellthief gestalt for a long time now.

Chronicled
2007-12-24, 03:57 AM
The best way to keep the gestalt system in line is to restrict one side. The best options I've seen for this are (as Reel On, Love mentioned) to allow only one caster side, or to have one side composed only of LA/HD. Half-dragons, were-creatures, half-celestials, etc become a lot more viable when they're not costing you class levels--just be sure to keep an eye on which races/templates they're taking, since Mineral Warrior, Feral, and the like alongside a full BAB class will be ridiculous.

Hario
2007-12-24, 05:31 AM
Keep a closer on powerful material and be more willing to disallow things. For example, a wizard/Incantatrix is ridiculously good... but a Wizard/Incantatrix//Archivist is like unto a tiny god, with persisted absolutely everything, capable of smashing the melee characters in melee and being almost impossible to hurt while remaining a cheesy spellcaster.
In fact, "only one full spellcasting class" is a wise restriction.

Fractional BAB/saves should always be the default assumption, but especially in Gestalt (otherwise, a Wizard 20//Fighter 1/Sorcerer 19 gets full BAB, for example).

You mean a Wizard/Incantatrix//Archivist/Sacred Excorsist (archivist don't get turn undead.) if yes then you are correct, full BAB, Good will saves, Pretty much every spell in the system minus psionics and incarnum. And gets a tun of spells at lower levels on the archivist side from classes like paladin and ranger. Holy Sword 4th level spell ftw!

Everyman
2007-12-24, 04:24 PM
Interesting. These posts really help clear up some of my questions. Thanks.

I'm allowing mult-full caster progression, but with some built-in limitations. For example, clerics in my games don't have full plate prof. and druids must use the shapeshift variant in PHB II. Besides, my gamers actually refuse to munchkin their builds in an abusive way. When they do munchkin, it generally is in a quirky, fun way. I'm not worried about dual caster prog. ruining my game. Thanks for the warnings though. I'll keep an eye, just in case.

One last question: Would it be too much to ban PrCs from the game? I've heard some stories regarding gestalt builds that abuse PrCs, so I'm cautious about allowing them. Of course, I could just limit it to one PrC per character only (maybe two if the PrCs have fewer than ten levels).

Any thoughts?

Chronicled
2007-12-24, 05:44 PM
In gestalt, you can only have 1 PrC on either side at a time, and no "dual class progression" PrCs like Mystic Theurge or Jade Phoenix Mage.

That said, your PrC fix wouldn't be bad, in either variant.

Shraik
2007-12-24, 05:56 PM
I Gestalted once. I suggest you spend a few hours with your gaming group and figure it out. When my group went gestalt we had to take a week off game to deal with it. Simple as this. Fighter/Monk. Then if forgotten Realms take the prestige class that allows you to flurry of blows with a non-monk weapon. d--:smallbiggrin:--b Funess Insues.