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Emperor Demonking
2007-12-24, 07:36 AM
What do you think the most resonable yet powerful custom wish is?

How do you deal with the ones that are too powerful?

What are the wishes that have been said on this board that are too strong?

Kurald Galain
2007-12-24, 08:02 AM
The most reasonable? Well gee, the wisher could wish for lunch, or something. That's reasonable, is it not?

The ones that are too powerful? I put in a drawback of the non-fatal kind, because it makes for a fun sideplot.

I haven't seen any wishes on this board lately, but the ones that are too strong tend to have overly convoluted wordings, a la Brian Van Hoose.

NoDot
2007-12-24, 08:30 AM
The version from the Tome of Fiends (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=688) works well, particularly if you read the economic ramifications in the Dungeonomicon (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=698).

Lochar
2007-12-24, 08:31 AM
I haven't seen any wishes on this board lately, but the ones that are too strong tend to have overly convoluted wordings, a la Brian Van Hoose.

That's a sign that the player knows it's too strong, but he's attempting to outwit the DM.

Usually, you start to hear rocks falling shortly after.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-12-24, 12:28 PM
What do you think the most resonable yet powerful custom wish is?

How do you deal with the ones that are too powerful?

What are the wishes that have been said on this board that are too strong?

Player (Should have to make a successful spellcraft, arcana or planes knowledge check (depending on how the wish is being granted (Scroll, Ring, Sword or Outsider)) either by one of the PCs or a hired NPC to get the PHB Wish "guidelines" before reading the PHB Wish text.

The DM should read the Wish spell also in case advising as a NPC or for specific campaign interpretations that might be a little gray.

Player writes down the Wish for the DM.

The DM reads the Player's Wish and determines if it is within the Wish spell description, if it is the Wish should be granted as written.

If it isn't within the guidelines partial fulfillment or a perverted wish (from the SRD Wish):

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

Ominous
2007-12-24, 12:36 PM
All wishes that I find to not be within the limits of the spell in the PHB get perverted. I also limit the number of words in any wish to about 30, so I don't get people reading me a five page wish to cover everything I might try to pervert.

Crow
2007-12-24, 01:09 PM
My perversion knows no limits!

Casting Wish in my games for any effect not listed in the spell's description is akin to arming a nuclear hand grenade...You better have one hell of a plan to escape the blast.

Toliudar
2007-12-24, 01:10 PM
All wishes that I find to not be within the limits of the spell in the PHB get perverted. I also limit the number of words in any wish to about 30, so I don't get people reading me a five page wish to cover everything I might try to pervert.

You know, that might make for an interesting houserule - one that a sadistic DM doesn't tell the players about. The first 20, 25 or 30 words of a wish are all that are considered when implementing its effect. This encourages short, cogent wishing, and penalizes the smartarses who write up mephistophelean contracts.

Elhann
2007-12-24, 01:31 PM
You know, that might make for an interesting houserule - one that a sadistic DM doesn't tell the players about. The first 20, 25 or 30 words of a wish are all that are considered when implementing its effect. This encourages short, cogent wishing, and penalizes the smartarses who write up mephistophelean contracts.

It depends. If it is a wish cast by the PC wizard, I'd give him 6 seconds to express his wish. 10 if I'm being generous. Using the guidlines gives a non-perverted wish. Asking for slightly greater effects is a cue for a new plotline (I wish for an item 5K gps more expensive than the wish limit: You receive insight of the location of such an item). Ask for too much, and it is a recipe for trouble (I wish I were the most powerful being: Wish replicates Plane shift. To an empty demiplane. Enjoy being the ONLY being in that plane)

Solars will grant wishes that further the goals of Good. They won't pervert your wish, they just won't give too much, or anything that cna be seen as evil.

Noble Djinns will fulfil your wish exactly as you worded it.

If you're asking a wish to a Glabrezu, ifrit or Pit fiend, I hope you're formulating it VERY carefully. Also, expect such a creature to pervert the wish to further their own goals.

And if for some reason you manage to force a wish that one of these outsiders wouldn't be happy to grant, expect swift and probably painful revenge coming soon.

Woland
2007-12-24, 01:34 PM
+1 stat bonus, only untyped instead of inherent.

That, or a spellbook with unlimited pages for writing down spells.

NoDot
2007-12-24, 04:48 PM
(I wish for an item 5K gps more expensive than the wish limit:There is no limit. The closest there is is on mundane wealth. There is no limit on magical items. (That's the problem.)

Altair_the_Vexed
2007-12-24, 04:57 PM
Wish isn't on the spell list in my game. Nor is Limited Wish.

I decided a long time ago that wishes were just too difficult to use sensibly - either because they were too powerful to allow, or too weak to be deserving of the name.

I placed one ring of three wishes in my game world, and it was the stuff of legends - you know: forged by ancient powers, destroyer of civilisations, that sort of thing. The heroes needed it to save the multiverse. It only had one wish left when they found it.
That's the sort of scale I like wishes to be on. Having them as a standard (if high level) spell just seems a bit ...lame.

loves_to_laugh
2007-12-24, 05:14 PM
I don't the time limit is too good of an idea because that might give the players a chance to mess up the wish because I know I had an instance though that we thought we were precise but we rushed because of our time limit and it ended up bad. We wished for like 3 monsters to be sent to the abyss or something and the DM decided to just send the whole island to the abyss with us still on the island.

bosssmiley
2007-12-24, 05:16 PM
The version from the Tome of Fiends (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=688) works well, particularly if you read the economic ramifications in the Dungeonomicon (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=698).

Add the "say it in one breath" houserule (to prevent close-typed, multi-page contract wishes) and that's me too.

Collin152
2007-12-24, 10:48 PM
If I talk while breathing in, is it still one breath? I know people who can do that.

What if I have a lung problem (which i do.)?

TheOOB
2007-12-24, 11:06 PM
I rule that any wish will do something, just maybe not all the wisher wanted. I really don't like penalizing people who cast the wish spell, if you are shaping the magic it automatically understands the intent of your wish. Now if your wishing from an efreete on the other hand, they might just screw you over.

The most powerful effect I've allowed from a wish is to supress(not dispell) the magic of an artifact for a few minutes, which considering that artifacts are typically not affected by anything less then epic(and even then usually not) is fairly major, especially when dealing with the BBEG's doomsday device.

Idea Man
2007-12-24, 11:20 PM
Powerful and fair? Uhhh, sure.

Changing the type of bonus an item provides, like a ring of protection providing a luck bonus to armor class instead of deflection. That can get nasty, but generally shouldn't be too powerful.

I expect to be proven wrong very soon. :smalltongue:

triforcel
2007-12-24, 11:55 PM
I never really considered wish to be that powerful of a spell. Since if the effect would be difficult to deal with, the DM can always twist it to make it to the player's deficit.

One example is from a game I was helping a friend DM since I was quicker with the books and rules and he just liked running crazy plot lines. He was allowing a player to use some weird magic system and the guy, in the middle of battle of which they were losing, decided to cast wish. Now after a long and careful deliberation they had narrowed down their wish to having each party member's weapon instantly gaining an equivalent +20 enhancement bonus without a number of backlashes that I can't remember, ie not pissing of major world powers in the process, stealing from demigods, and all that good stuff. So the DM's a bit concerned and after some pleading, allows me to handle it. With the DM's approval, I explained to the players how the two masterwork weapons they had in their possession were now glowing with a violent red aura, and the non-masterwork weapons they had turned to dust being unable to withstand the magical forces that were poured into them. This disarmed the majority of the party, but the best part was when the caster decided to attack with his weapon without knowing that it had been enchanted with twenty stacking versions of Vicious (+2d6, Wielder takes 1d6, or as the DM ruled it Wielder takes half just to make it easier). So he fires his bow, missing his target, but hitting an innocent bystander. Who was liquified moments before the offending caster was liquified.

Shraik
2007-12-25, 12:25 AM
The most reasonable is wishing for the Monster Manual and being able to read and understand it. Of course it will probably backfire as all wishes do...

Xefas
2007-12-25, 12:26 AM
I'm nearly always the DM in our group, and I've never had to really deal with wish as a DM. Either the campaign didn't get to that level, or the players didn't want to mess with the spell.

However, in a one shot adventure where I actually got to play, the DM decided to give us a Ring with a Wish attached to it. We were in the lower-mid levels (7ish maybe?) and we had only acquired it by being in an extremely lucky place at the right time.

While all my party-mates were milling over what they were going to do and how many clauses they could possibly fit in to deal with the obvious backlash that would accompany their obviously insane requests, I took the ring and said "I wish for some really nice white cotton socks".

Long story short, I got some bonus XP for not greedily incurring the wrath of extraplanar powers beyond all of our comprehensions.

So, there ya go. Socks; it's the most reasonable request you can make of a Wish spell, or a wish-granting creature. I don't think even a Pit Fiend could find it in his twisted heart to mess with someone's socks. Can you imagine how all the other devils would make fun of him after that?

"Oh yeah, BIG MAN, ya' are! Screwin' with mortals' socks!"

Xuincherguixe
2007-12-25, 12:29 AM
Solars will grant wishes that further the goals of Good. They won't pervert your wish, they just won't give too much, or anything that cna be seen as evil.

Noble Djinns will fulfil your wish exactly as you worded it.

If you're asking a wish to a Glabrezu, ifrit or Pit fiend, I hope you're formulating it VERY carefully. Also, expect such a creature to pervert the wish to further their own goals.

The problem with this is, why would anyone ask an evil thing for a wish, if they can just ask a good thing.

How I would handle things, is that Good outsiders either didn't grant many sorts of wishes, or none. Either they are incapable of it, or they are morally opposed.


Fiends might attach a cost to things. You can either decide to let them know the cost, or just have it inflicted. If the person is evil too, they might not care what happens to others. This can either be seen as an advantage to evil, or the fiends have to ask for things that will be considered suffering (or inflict it without letting them know what the cost was).


I don't really like making people's wishes come back against them.

It's kind of tempting to make a wish like, "Open a gate to the Far Plane" or "Unseal the dark god that wants to destroy the universe." How do you make those worse ^_^

Kaelik
2007-12-25, 12:39 AM
Powerful and fair? Uhhh, sure.

Changing the type of bonus an item provides, like a ring of protection providing a luck bonus to armor class instead of deflection. That can get nasty, but generally shouldn't be too powerful.

I expect to be proven wrong very soon. :smalltongue:

Competence Bonus to skills. Suddenly you have a +10 Luck/+10 Competence/+10 Profane/+10 Vile/+10 Sacred/+10 whatever bonus to bluff. Cast Glibness, Suggest anyone.

(Or get them all to Balance. Sure you could buy an item that lets you fly, but it's way more fun to say, "I can balance on air.")

tyckspoon
2007-12-25, 12:41 AM
I don't really like making people's wishes come back against them.

It's kind of tempting to make a wish like, "Open a gate to the Far Plane" or "Unseal the dark god that wants to destroy the universe." How do you make those worse ^_^

They could just completely fail. Or go with the 'partial fulfillment' thing; instead of being sealed for all eternity, the dark god is now only sealed for ten thousand more years. Eventually some other adventuring party is going to have to deal with that. Also, the gods what sealed it in the first place now know your name and home address; good luck with that. For the Far Realm, having the Gate Call you to the Far Realm sounds good to me. Or just let the Gate open and then have nothing come through until the duration expires. Congratulations, you managed to open the Gate precisely where no bizarre betentacled monstrosities bother to go.

Ominous
2007-12-25, 01:13 AM
It's kind of tempting to make a wish like, "Open a gate to the Far Plane"

Granted. A gate to the Far Plane opens on one of the levels of the Abyss. The monsters of the far Plane succeed in destroying several demons, thus making the multiverse a better place.

or

Granted. A gate to the Far Pkane opens before you. The monsters of the Far Plane proceed to slaughter you, then return to the Far Plane. Remember that the reasonings of Far Plane creatures are not understandable.



or "Unseal the dark god that wants to destroy the universe." How do you make those worse ^_^

Granted. The dark god awakens from his slumber. Unfortunately it seems that he purposely sealed himself to allow the world time to become more evil thus giving him more power. Since good still dominates the material plane, the good gods have the upper hand and utterly destroy the evil deity.

or

Granted. An Overpower wipes your entire existence from history, thus undoing the wish and restoring the balance the Overpower favors. Reroll a character.

Perversion is about granting the wish, but not following the spirit of the wish, because the PC was being an ***hat when making the wish. The goal is to ruin the PC's day, not the multiverse's day. If the multiverse comes out with a win thanks to the wish, and the PC failed and had his *** handed to him, all the better.

leperkhaun
2007-12-25, 01:51 AM
for its, the dm just figures out if its reasonable. If he thinks its reasonable it ussually works, if he thinks they are trying to get too much bad stuff happens.

Last time someone wrote of a long wish, he threw it into the fireplace without looking at it.

pingcode20
2007-12-25, 02:37 AM
"I wish the forumite known as 'Ominous' was stricken from all forms in reality from this point in time forwards irrevocably, and for there to be an inanimate wooden sign left in his place reading 'Ominous: Smote for thwarting attempt to destroy universe'" :smalltongue:

---

Of course, the most fun ones would be the ones which have no direct mechanical power whatsoever.

"I wish that by speaking slower and louder I can force anyone to understand my words, regardless of language or the absence thereof."

(Although it would probably be adlibbed as a slotless use-activated magic item of tongues, + a little extra for being unremovable and unable to be dispelled. This one could be useful, though, for enchanters and the like.)


"I wish I could yell over the top of anyone or anything, no matter how loud they are."

(Similarly, besides the humourous situation where you yell over a god or something, it also means you could communicate in a hurricane. It would also negate the spell failure chance from large amounts of sound, given that you can yell loud enough for at least yourself to hear it.)

Xuincherguixe
2007-12-25, 02:50 AM
You just gave me a great idea for my monster campaign. A demon who's voice is a Hurricane.

Well maybe not since it's kind of another things territory. But it was still a great idea you gave me.

Talic
2007-12-26, 01:19 AM
Reasonable, yet powerful?

Exchange one magic item's bonus for an equivalent bonus...

Lose Flaming to add Frost, or Merciful, for example.

OR

Lose knowledge of one spell, to gain another of the same level. (For Sorcerors)

OR

Never needing to drink again (useful in a desert, I imagine).


Generally, players know when a wish is too strong. If it can't be replicated by an 8th level spell, you're probably aiming a bit high.

Suzuro
2007-12-26, 03:56 AM
If I ever get a magic item with a Wish spell, I think I'll wish for a new car...





-Suzuro

RandomNPC
2007-12-26, 09:14 PM
has any DM just granted the over powered wish and then doubly screwed up the inevidable second over powered wish?


my players stay away from it because of the XP penalty.

Solo
2007-12-26, 09:27 PM
My perversion knows no limits!


Few of us are brave enough to declare this sort of thing out loud.

Treguard
2007-12-27, 07:46 AM
Ooh! A question here! What do you guys feel about DMs using wish? I mean, who can correct the ultimate authority at the table if he makes a bad wish?

sapphail
2007-12-27, 10:47 AM
I get my players to give me their wish in writing so I can go over it. It makes them careful about their phrasing, I can tell you. :smallbiggrin:

DM use of Wish can go either way. If it's to further the plot, then it can be good, but if it's just to get the upper hand when things aren't going quite as planned then you can only hope that your DM is a judicious one.

mostlyharmful
2007-12-27, 12:03 PM
Ooh! A question here! What do you guys feel about DMs using wish? I mean, who can correct the ultimate authority at the table if he makes a bad wish?

I once had a big bad immolate himself with an overpowered wish because the PCs interrupted, unfortunately he was in a room under the huge arcane library at the time which led to larger problems than just letting him be a devil

Shraik
2007-12-27, 01:14 PM
hmmm.... I would probably just wish for a nice turkey sub.

:smallbiggrin: Very few things put me in a better mood then a turkey sub with lettuce, tomato, and Mayonaise.:smallbiggrin: