Captain America?

[MammonAzrael]

Yes, I know that he's a popular guy to clone, but I can't seem to find builds of him, and I thought it'd be fun to play the shield-slinger for a game.

From what I've read, Fighter X/Master Throwe X seems to be the most common way to build him. Has anyone made a build since ToB, using Warblade or Bloodstorm Blade?

Just how many feats does he need to function like Cap? Are any martial maneuvers helpful? I don't have any of the books in front of me right now, but maybe something simple like Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 10/Master Thrower 5? (mixing it up a bit to get the right level maneuvers, of course)

What do you guys think? Do you have links to builds of him? Thanks in advance!

[Wordmiser]

Here's ("http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=10825643)one thread on a Captain America interpretation that uses ToB. I think there's a Bloodstorm Blade build in there... maybe not.

Warblade 5/Fighter 1/BB 5/Warblade 9 would probably be yer best skeleton of a build, just to keep Maneuver levels relatively high and to take the goodies from both PrCs.

I'd actually help with this if it weren't late. As-is, I've got to turn in, but I thought the link and skeleton might be worth posting.

[Armads]

The link doesn't work, due to a typo. Here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=749967) it is.

[Roderick_BR]

I almost did that one, after reading the Bloodstorm Blade PrC. One of the abilities is to throw your weapon, have it bounce among a number of enemies, then return to your hand at the same round! If that's not Cap's trademark move, I don't know what it is.

[Devin]

Would that mean that Xena is likely to be a Bloodstorm Blade? She's very good at bouncing her chakram.

[icthius]

There are plenty of shield feats (including shield throw in the PHB 2) so that you could make Cap with a fighter/Paladin. Be sure to include plenty of points in Diplomacy!

[MammonAzrael]

Would that mean that Xena is likely to be a Bloodstorm Blade? She's very good at bouncing her chakram.

Surprisingly, that's a good point. Problem is, she's a lot less focused, mechanics-wise, sine she's also really good with swords, hand-to-hand, and so on. She'd be a lot harder to build, and have a lot less wiggle room.

Edit: And I'm trying to avoid any class that will give spells (or things Cap couldn't do, like turn undead). That's the reason I never thought of Paladin, or if going the ToB way, Crusader(the way he receives maneuvers doesn't fit Cap).

Edit 2: Here is a Cap build I whipped up, what do you guys think?

Class Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
Warblade 1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Battle Clarity(Reflex saves), Weapon Aptitude
Warblade 2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Uncanny Dodge
Warblade 3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Battle Ardor(Critical Confirmation)
Warblade 4|+4|+4|+1|+1|--
Warblade 5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat(Improved Initiative)
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 1|+6/+1|+6|+1|+1|Returning Attacks, Throw Anything, Weapon Aptitude
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 2|+7/+2|+7|+1|+1|Martial Throw, Thunderous Throw
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 3|+8/+3|+7|+2|+2|Bonus Fighter Feat(Improved Shield Bash)
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 4|+9/+4|+8|+2|+2|Lightning Ricochet
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 5|+10/+5|+8|+2|+2|Blood Wind Ricochet
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 6|+11/+6/+1|+9|+3|+3|Bonus Fighter Feat(Shield Charge)
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 7|+12/+7/+2|+9|+3|+3|Eye of the Storm
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 8|+13/+8/+3|+10|+3|+3|Blood Rain
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 9|+14/+9/+4|+10|+4|+4|Bonus Fighter Feat(Brutal Throw)
Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+15/+10/+5|+11|+4|+4|Blade Storm
Warblade 6/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+16/+11/+6/+1|+12|+5|+5|Improved Uncanny Dodge
Warblade 7/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+17/+12/+7/+2|+12|+5|+5|Battle Cunning(Damage)
Warblade 8/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+18/+13/+8/+3|+13|+5|+5|--
Warblade 9/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+19/+14/+9/+4|+13|+6|+6|Bonus Feat(Ironheart Aura)
Warblade 10/Bloodstorm Blade 10|+20/+15/+10/+5|+14|+6|+6|--


Feats, Maneuvers, and Skills:

Class Level|Feats|Maneuvers|Stances
WB1|Improved Unarmed Strike, Point Blank Shot|Moment of Perfect Mind, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Steel Wind|Punishing Stance
WB2|--|Charging Minotaur|--
WB3|Superior Unarmed Strike|Mountain Hammer|--
WB4|--|Sapphire Nightmare Blade->Disarming Strike|Bolstering Voice
WB5|Improved Initiative(Bonus Feat)|Iron Heart Surge|--
WB5/BB1|Shield Specialization(Heavy), Throw Anything(Bloodstorm Blade)|--|--
WB5/BB2|--|--|--
WB5/BB3|Improved Shield Bash(Bonus Fighter Feat)|--|--
WB5/BB4|Agile Shield Fighter|--|--
WB5/BB5|--|--|--
WB5/BB6|Shield Charge(Bonus Fighter Feat)|--|--
WB5/BB7|Shield Slam|--|--
WB5/BB8|--|--|--
WB5/BB9|Brutal Throw(Bonus Fighter Feat)|--|--
WB5/BB10|Far Shot|--|--
WB6/BB10|--|Steel Wind->Iron Heart Endurance|--
WB7/BB10|--|Elder Mountain Hammer|--
WB8/BB10|Shield Ward|Charging Minotaur->Ancient Mountain Hammer|--
WB9/BB10|Ironheart Aura(Bonus Feat)|Finishing Move|--
WB10/BB10|--|Moment of Perfect Mind->Diamond Defense|Supreme Blade Parry

Class skills (Warblade only, Bloodstorm Blade only):
Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge:History, Local, Martial Lore, Spot, Swim, Tumble

You get 4+Int skill points your whole career, which isn't bad.

You need 8 Ranks in Balance for BB, but after that it's up to you. Max out Concentration for Moment of Perfect Mind. Put a decent amount in Diplomacy and Knowledge: History to retain some Cap feel. Tumble and Intimidate are good, and pump Spot while leveling Bloodstorm Blade.


The first thing you may notice is the lack of the feat "Shield Sling." This builds first goal equipment-wise to to enchant it's shield with the "Ranged" property. It's found in the Magic Item Compendium, and is a +1 enhancement. It can only be placed on shields, gives them a range of 30', increases it's damage by two sizes(so a Medium Heavy Shield does 1d8 instead of 1d4), and does everything "Returning" does. It also applies it's +X enhancement bonus and Strength to damage.

Ideally you will wield a +5 Commander's Ranged Adamantine Heavy Shield of Bashing and Distance(+8 total, 132,020 GP).

To keep the "look" of Cap, I'd say wear Scale Mail. A breastplate if you go with the new Captain America.

What do you think? Suggestions, comments, changes?

[MammonAzrael]

Editing doesn't bump the thread, so, see above post's edit! :smallsmile:

[dyslexicfaser]

One thing about your build - If I'm remembering the feats and ability involved, Brutal Throw seems superfluous, since Bloodstorm Blade already lets you throw things 'as a melee weapon', i.e. with str.

[MammonAzrael]

You might be right. It gains the "Throw Anything" feat, but I'm not sure if that allows STR bonuses to be applied. If not, no biggie. If it does, then the build gets an extra feat.

[kpenguin]

Does anyone have a non-TOB build for Cap?

I, unfortunately, don't own a copy.

[MammonAzrael]

Does anyone have a non-TOB build for Cap?

I, unfortunately, don't own a copy.

That acutally seems to be more popular. At least, most of what I've found 'round the net hasn't used ToB.

Typically it's mostly Fighter, usually with Master Thrower in the mix. With the extra feats, people seem to gravitate towards the Weapon Focus/Specialization tree on shields, Power Attack/Power Throw, Improved Trip/Disarm, and so on.

[kpenguin]

How would one go about statting Cap, anyway. Super soldier serum would give him full 18s in all physical traits, I suppose. Above average intelligence, charisma, and wisdom as well.

[MammonAzrael]

This is just a template for a clone.

You don't make Cap in the game for real, that's just sick. For stats, he'd need an unmodified strength of about 30(he can bench over 1,000 pounds), a base land speed of over 100' per round (can can run near 60 mph), constitution probably in the mid 20's, and same for dexterity. Intelligence is probably around a 13-15, but wisdom is probably at 17-19, while Charisma is in the low to mid 20's. Super Soldier serum is awesome. And Cap is with or without it.

[Roderick_BR]

You might be right. It gains the "Throw Anything" feat, but I'm not sure if that allows STR bonuses to be applied. If not, no biggie. If it does, then the build gets an extra feat.
I think you gain the same benefits of both Brutal Throw and Power Throw.
If you get levels in the Bloodstorm PrC, you can also make the thrown weapon return to your hand, so you don't need a returning shield. You do spend maneuvers to activate it, though. Get some levels of SwordSage for extra maneuvers, unarmed combat (something that Caps does), and the Wis to AC bonus. Thinking now, swordsage would fit Cap nicely.

[MammonAzrael]

I think you gain the same benefits of both Brutal Throw and Power Throw.
If you get levels in the Bloodstorm PrC, you can also make the thrown weapon return to your hand, so you don't need a returning shield. You do spend maneuvers to activate it, though. Get some levels of SwordSage for extra maneuvers, unarmed combat (something that Caps does), and the Wis to AC bonus. Thinking now, swordsage would fit Cap nicely.

The problem with Swordsage is that it has only 3/4 BAB progression, while I think Cap would have the full 20. The Wisdom bonus to AC would be nice. This build is already using Unarmed combat, hence the Improved/Superior Unarmed Combat feats. And it's my understanding that you can use maneuvers with any weapon, not just the weapons the school favors.

As for Returning, it's not on the Shield I posted. I used Ranged, which is strictly superior.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Paladin would only be available if Cap was LG, and I'd say he was more of a NG if not CG.

But what do you people think?

[CabbageTheif]

captain america is definatly lawful, no doubt in my mind. he is 100% support HIS country, qabide by HIS countries laws, and when in doubt, do the american thing which is to go to court and get your head blown off, apparently. what was with that, anyways? did he come back? therer is no way marvel permanently destroyed one of its heroes.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Cabbage theif I like your opinion, but I am appalled by your irreverance for Steve Roger's death. I know he's fictional, but have a little respect.:smalltongue:

[MammonAzrael]

I suppose thanks for staying on topic, but please, lets stay away from alignment discussions. I've seen what happens, and usually nothing is solved. For the sake of argument, if you wanted to use Paladin in your Cap build, lets just say he's LG and move on. For sticklers, if Roy can keep Belkar in his party and stay LG, then Cap should have an easy time of it.

And CabbageTheif, it was nice that you put it in a "spoiler" but I'd be very surprised if someone didn't know about that by now. The event was large enough to get the attention of major new media.