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View Full Version : Would Kobolds be the best race for TWFing crossbows?



...Eh?
2007-12-25, 11:19 AM
After reading the article on the improved kobold (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), I saw the exotic crossbows at the bottom, which remind me of a discussion I read once about how to build a TWFer who used crossbows, and I think one of the big problems was reloading, because you'd need either a personal servant or a magic item of Unseen Servant. Races of the Dragon gives kobolds the ability to preform a ritual that allows them to cast one first-level sorcerer spell as a SPA 1/day, or 3/day with the feat in the aforementioned article, so you could take Unseen Servant. In addition, if you're using the article, kobolds gain an effective +2 size bonus for attacks from Slight Build, which negates the penalty from TWF. And though I'm not sure that the double crossbows in the article are all that good, that does mean a third or fourth level character can make 4 attacks a round with them.

CactusAir
2007-12-25, 08:50 PM
Assuming your DM doesn't hit you for Free Action abuse, a spare hand (MIC, 12,000 gp) allows you to TWF hand x-bows. Or you can grab the ghost reload spell from Dragon Magic.

Unseen Servant works, but expeding a SLA for it doesn't sound like it;'s worthwhile, just cats it nromaly and use your SLA for nerveskitter or Indentify.

Double crossbows are tottaly not worth it for TWF because there is no way to make reloading them a free action.

So there's no reason why kobold is better for TWF-ing crossbows (a subpar choice to begin with) Anyone who really wants to can make a character who shoots 6-7 crossbow bolts per round (doubled with the splitting enchantment), but the feat expenditure is immense.

kpenguin
2007-12-25, 08:54 PM
Unseen Servant works, but anyone can get it with Least Dragonmark of Hospitality. Plus, Size bonuses are circumstancial anyway. So I don't see that kobolds are better than any other race.

If, by anyone, you mean halflings from Eberron.

CactusAir
2007-12-25, 11:14 PM
If, by anyone, you mean halflings from Eberron.

See what happens when you post half asleep?

Post fixed.

Armads
2007-12-25, 11:18 PM
The Quick-Loading weapon enhancement instantaneously reloads your crossbows for a +1 equivalent bonus.

The 1/day SLA's better off for picking something like Identify, or other spells which have costly material/xp components

Yami
2007-12-25, 11:25 PM
I beleive there is a class or build for TWFing dual handcrossbows for Drow.

So I would think drow would be better.

Nebo_
2007-12-25, 11:41 PM
kobolds gain an effective +2 size bonus for attacks from Slight Build, which negates the penalty from TWF.

Why do people keep not reading that properly? Look again. It says you get the size bonus on opposed rolls. Attacks are not opposed rolls.

Armads
2007-12-25, 11:49 PM
Why don't you read the reply I posted on the other thread.

Person_Man
2007-12-26, 11:43 AM
I've tried to pull off a TWF crossbow build more then once, and have found that the Spare Hand from the MIC mentioned by CactusAir is the best bet.

Another option is using Quickdraw and repeating light crossbows. Fire five shots, drop the crossbow, draw another one, and keep firing. However, this is a horrible idea at mid-high levels, since you can't invest in magical crossbows. (Well you can, but you just end up dropping them after the first round).

icthius
2007-12-26, 01:40 PM
Another option is using Quickdraw and repeating light crossbows. Fire five shots, drop the crossbow, draw another one, and keep firing. However, this is a horrible idea at mid-high levels, since you can't invest in magical crossbows. (Well you can, but you just end up dropping them after the first round).

Why not just rapid reload and a regular light crossbow? You can get just as many shots in.

Adumbration
2007-12-26, 02:21 PM
What I think is the best race for using crossbows is the chitins. It's becouse they have four hands (!). Combine this with Heward's Handy Haversack (or just regular Bag of Holding) filled with loaded crossbows, you get quite a few shots a round.

CactusAir
2007-12-26, 07:25 PM
The Quick-Loading weapon enhancement instantaneously reloads your crossbows for a +1 equivalent bonus.


uhm no, i've been over that point about 60 times over on gleemax. Quickloading makes reloading a free action, but YOU STILL NEED TO HAVE A HAND FREE. Which you don't if you are TWF-ing.

If you want to TWF with Xbows this is what you need

Feats:

TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU) or Rapid Reload (for a light crossbow)

Necessary ability: Reload X-bows while TWF-ing.
a) Ability to cast Unseen Servant or Ghost Reload. or
b) a spare hand if your DM lets you abuse Free actions that way-you need at least 20 a round. or
c)be something with more than 2 hands)

Optional Abilities:
1) Fire in melee without provoking AoO (hand X-bow only): 1 level dip in Exotic Weapon Master or the Versatile Combatant feat.
2) Threaten with a ranged weapon: Arrowmind spell (ranger 1)
3) Damage boosts per attack (Sneak attack, Weapon specialization, ETC)

Weapons Enchantments:
Force: +1d4 force damage per shot, so you can shoot the incorporeal.
Splitting: creates a a double of each shot you fire out of shadowstuff.

Final result: Up to 7 attacks per round, doubled to 14 by the splitting property (precision damage is not doubled).

RandomNPC
2007-12-26, 09:23 PM
not kobolds, but the four armed xill are the best for having two crossbows.

CactusAir
2007-12-27, 06:30 AM
not kobolds, but the four armed xill are the best for having two crossbows.

if they are dextrous with 4 arms they can have 3 Crossbows going, with MWF.

heh, now I want to try that. 10 attacks/round, all with splitting.