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slexlollar89
2007-12-25, 08:38 PM
Hello all! Jolly jovial jubilant holidays for evryone!

Now at the rik of getting killed oe lynched by the forumgoers, I have to ask, what is this divine metacheese or whatever it's called? How does it work? How can one be a fun and enjoyable cleric without being rediculously powerful (like fun builds or suggestions for my upcoming healer guy :smallsmile: )?

More importantly though, what are good feats for a cleric that is based on healing?

Xefas
2007-12-25, 08:50 PM
The Divine Metamagic trick that breaks everything requires the Libris Mortis and Complete Divine.

Just take Divine Metamagic (Persistent) or Divine Metamagic (Quicken) and stock up on a buttload of Nightsticks from Libris Mortis.

Instant ton of overpowered all day buffs or two spells every round. Your choice.

To play a fun, non-overpowered cleric, don't use this trick, and don't buff yourself ever. If you buff yourself at all, you're likely to surpass all melee classes in damage output.

Kizara
2007-12-25, 11:04 PM
The Divine Metamagic trick that breaks everything requires the Libris Mortis and Complete Divine.

Just take Divine Metamagic (Persistent) or Divine Metamagic (Quicken) and stock up on a buttload of Nightsticks from Libris Mortis.

Instant ton of overpowered all day buffs or two spells every round. Your choice.

To play a fun, non-overpowered cleric, don't use this trick, and don't buff yourself ever. If you buff yourself at all, you're likely to surpass all melee classes in damage output.

You don't really even need to do that, just get a human cleric of a war god, taking the War Domain. Take Quicken Spell and DMM (Quicken Spell) and 1 dose of extra turning, and power attack (in that order). Get yourself a 20 charisma (18 + cloak) and you can quicken 3 spells/day. Personally, between doing that and abusing the PHB2 cleric spells, I find I'm pretty set.

Alternately, get the Planning and Undeath domains (gives Extend Spell and Extra turning) and take Persistant Spell and DMM (Persist spell) as your two starting bonus feats. Voila, you can persist 2 buffs a day at level 1. Throw in the aforementioned nightsticks when your level improves and you have more spells you want to persist.

Mind you, the above is really chessy and should be banned IMO.


As for a 'healer' cleric, there's the feat Augmented Healing, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC. I really reccomend against the healing domain, even if you think its an obvious choice for the concept, cause it truely is terrible. Remember you don't have ANY need to perpare any Cure spells, as you can just swap them out spontaneously.

Chronicled
2007-12-26, 12:50 AM
As for a 'healer' cleric, there's the feat Augmented Healing, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC. I really reccomend against the healing domain, even if you think its an obvious choice for the concept, cause it truely is terrible. Remember you don't have ANY need to perpare any Cure spells, as you can just swap them out spontaneously.

Although, the Healing Domain + Spontaneous Domain cleric variant from the PHB2 lets you spontaneously cast Heal and Mass Heal, which you can't do normally. Still not optimal, but if you want to be the best healer ever...

SadisticFishing
2007-12-26, 12:56 AM
Although, the Healing Domain + Spontaneous Domain cleric variant from the PHB2 lets you spontaneously cast Heal and Mass Heal, which you can't do normally. Still not optimal, but if you want to be the best healer ever...

Actually, with RSoP, it also makes all your spontaneous cure spells maximized and/or empowered. Rather decent!

Chronicled
2007-12-26, 01:00 AM
Yes, but you can ALSO get spontaneous cure spells with the feat Spontaneous Healer from Complete Divine. Then you have the choice between spontaneously casting a spell from the Healing Domain OR a Cure spell.

Because you can never have too many healing options. :smallcool:

marjan
2007-12-26, 01:29 AM
Because you can never have too many healing options. :smallcool:

Yes, people use to get hurt in diferent ways.:smallbiggrin:

Jack_Simth
2007-12-26, 01:46 AM
Hello all! Jolly jovial jubilant holidays for evryone!

Now at the rik of getting killed oe lynched by the forumgoers, I have to ask, what is this divine metacheese or whatever it's called? How does it work? How can one be a fun and enjoyable cleric without being rediculously powerful (like fun builds or suggestions for my upcoming healer guy :smallsmile: )?

More importantly though, what are good feats for a cleric that is based on healing?
Divine Metacheese:
There's a feat in Complete Divine that permits a divine caster to burn turning attempts to spontaneously apply a specific metamagic feat to an already prepared spell; it costs 1 + metamagic level adjustment turning attempts to use. Most of the good Cleric buff spells are personal range, which makes them suitable for Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) (at a cost of 7 turning attempts). With heavy use of that, and the Extra Turning feat (and Nightsticks from Libris Mortis) it's a fairly easy matter to have a Cleric that outfights a Fighter both in melee and at range, without spending any actions in battle to do so (the needed buff spells are already cast). And the Cleric can still cast spells.

Good feats for a cleric based on healing?

Touch of Healing is useful (reserve feat, 3 points of healing per spell level of the highest level Conjouration(Healing) spell you have available - but can't heal anyone above 1/2 HP) to cut down on the cost of Wands of Cure Light Wounds.

Divine Metamagic(Persistant Spell). Seriously. Check out Mass Lesser Vigor - fast healing 1 for the duration, but fits all requirements for being Persisted. It's a 3rd level spell for Clerics from Complete Divine. With the Planning and Undeath domains (and a Charisma score of 10 or better) you can be pulling this off by 5th. If you can only get one of the two domains, you need to be a human (or another race that gets an arbitrary bonus feat) to do so by 5th. Handles all out of combat healing completely. Pick up Extra Turning and Nightsticks (Libris Mortis) as they becomes available, and Persist other party buffs (you can generally convince a DM to permit DMM(Persistent Spell) when you only use it for stuff that helps the entire party - especially if you point out that it now permits the Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian/Ranger to shine in endurance runs, where the Wizard/Cleric/Druid would run out of spells).

Talic
2007-12-26, 02:03 AM
Well, maybe a COUPLE cure spells prepared. Spontaneous casting is usually a Full Round Action, and there are times when you've gotta get a heal on target quick.

Chronicled
2007-12-26, 02:23 AM
Well, maybe a COUPLE cure spells prepared. Spontaneous casting is usually a Full Round Action, and there are times when you've gotta get a heal on target quick.

Um, no. Maybe you're thinking of an earlier edition of D&D?


Spontaneous Casting
A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name).

An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), canít convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with "inflict" in its name).

A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (playerís choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead.

Nowhere in there does it say anything about it taking a full round action.

Armads
2007-12-26, 03:43 AM
It's only a full round when you apply metamagic to spontaneously cast spells.