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shaka gl
2007-12-26, 10:18 PM
So, i need an assassin NPC, but it has to be a VERY good one. Besides the obvious Rogue/Assassin, which other things should I take into account? A second PrC that improves it? A combination of feats I may have missed? Just tell me how do you think a great assassin should be. Only sure thing: has to be human. Oh, and his son turned up to be a Warlock, so probably some weird bloodlines, too.

CR: between 12 and 15.

Bag_of_Holding
2007-12-26, 10:25 PM
You don't need to be uber-optimised to make a deadly NPC. As the Dungeon Master of the game, you can plot every single move of the PCs and NPCs, YOU decide where the party will end up for the night, what kind of covers the NPCs will get etc etc.

What you really need is the purpose of the NPC. What do you want that assassin to achieve? Killing a PC? Giving them a feeling of urgency/danger? Another plot hook? The build and the situation that you build around the PCs will be dependant on those variables. Don't worry about following RAW either; you can make an irresistable poison that can only be healed in certain temples etc etc. This is a plot hook that I'm currently using in my campaign to lure the PCs into somewhere they wouldn't go normally and it works marvellously (thankfully).:smallbiggrin:

Chronicled
2007-12-26, 10:26 PM
Well, there's always the feat Ability Focus (Death Attack).

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-26, 10:28 PM
Consider a cleric with the luck domain or some kind of item to activate a Surge of Fortune spell when you DA. A nat 20 will kill everything.

Jannex
2007-12-26, 10:29 PM
I guess the question to be asked here is, what sort of things is this guy going to have to be able to kill? Because the necessary skill-set for assassinating a king living in a palace and guarded by a multitude of low-to-middling level warriors is vastly different from the skill-set required to take out a moderately-powerful wizard, or the most powerful cleric in the local temple, or a band of adventurers dripping with magic items.

A lot of the responses you're going to get here will be variations on the theme of, "make him an arcane caster." That's valid, for some interpretations of "assassin." Depending on the sort of jobs he's likely to take, he may need the sort of cheese that an arcanist can bring to the table. But other jobs may be doable with only mundane (as opposed to magical) skill.

If you do go the arcane caster route, Beguiler is pretty nice. They specialize in illusion, misdirection, and manipulation (and their spell list reflects this); they're spontaneous casters with a full list, giving you a nice mix between versatility and flexibility; and if I remember correctly, they have UMD, for all those spells not on their list.

For an otherwise non-magical character, you might consider something like Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, because a 50' teleport is just kind of generally useful. And you can use it as a prerequisite for Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, which is an extra +2d6 sneak attack, for added fun. Or just go Swordsage for a couple of levels, but then you're missing out on Sneak Attack and suchlike.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-12-26, 10:41 PM
Do I have the perfect PrC for you. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62659):smallbiggrin:

graymachine
2007-12-26, 10:43 PM
The Skulk race out of RoD is nice for assassins since it gets a +15 racial hide bonus, a +8 racial move silently bonus, can hide with no penalty even while running, a +4 DEX at the cost on WIS and CHA, and is resistant to scrying. It has a +1 LA and requires 2 racial levels in "humanoid."

The Beguiler class would be good because it has most of the things an Assassin would want and its casting is INT based, which is important to have high if you want a decent DA.

Also, don't forget the nice poisons in BoVD and Two-Weapon Fighting for double poisoning fun.

playswithfire
2007-12-26, 10:50 PM
Mild variation on the rogue/assassin idea
I at once point was working on an ECL 10 Assassin type Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 1/Swordsage 2/Assassin+3 with Carmendine Monk, Shadow Blade and Daring Outlaw that was doing base+7d6+DEX+INT when sneak attacking in his assassin's stance, which he would attempt to facilitate by casting darkness and moving silently around with his blindfold of true darkness. Moving him to level 12, I'd either add 2 levels of assassin for the third level spells or swordsage for better maneuvers. Also gets to add INT to AC in light armor, using Carmendine Monk to replace the swordsage boost.

Just a thought; feel free to disregard

JackMage666
2007-12-26, 10:52 PM
Look inside the Book of Vile Darkness.

Take Cancer Mage PrC. Take it, and just wait around to catch hundreds of diseases.

Cough in his food....

Find out how to get Warp Touch. That disease is KILLER.

TheLogman
2007-12-26, 10:57 PM
The Assassin's dagger in the DMG increases +2 to the DC on the Death Attack of an Assassin.

herrhauptmann
2007-12-26, 10:59 PM
It's a shame part of your requirement is 'human'. Whisper gnomes make excellent assassins and rogues. I had one I was working towards 'Black FLame Zealot' prestige class (death and law domains). 3 cleric, 2 rogue, 18 dex, with a +22 hide, and a +14 move silently. Just using skills and mundane items, no spells or magic items like bracers of dex or boots of elven kind.

Out of curiosity, why do you want/need a special bloodline just because his son is a sorceror? IT's entirely possible to be a d**n good sorceror without any bloodline feats.

Chronicled
2007-12-26, 11:06 PM
Also, the Dark template from Tome of Magic would be helpful.

CthulhuM
2007-12-26, 11:08 PM
What playswithfire said.

If you want something a little less ridiculous, though, all you really need is a TWF rogue build with 1 level of swordsage (or more - more martial class levels never hurt) and Shadow Blade. 3 levels of swordsage for insightful strike is alright, though it's unlikely you'll have high dex, con, wis and int.

For races, a simple human (to help pick up the TWF feats) with the Dark template (from ToM) will serve you well. Or really anything with the dark template. Hell, a frenzied berserker might be considered an "assassin" if you threw that template on it.

Armads
2007-12-26, 11:33 PM
Do you need an Assassin as the PrC, or an Assassin as the profession? Because if you need it as the profession, a wizard would be best.

If you want an Assassin as in the PrC, a Shadow (LoM template) Human Rogue/Assassin/Swordsage would be awesome. Add black lotus extract to your weapon, wield a wounding weapon, take the bloodletting strike maneuver and the Disembowling Strike feat, and death attack for 1d4+3 con damage with no save, then making a fortitude save (DC 20, with their weakened fortitude save from loss of con) or eat another 3d6 con damage, and if it doesn't kill them, it will force them to make ANOTHER fortitude save or suffer from the death attack. Plus, if anything goes wrong, the would-be assassin has total concealment whenever he is not in direct sunlight or in the radius of a daylight spell, so locating him is nearly impossible at night, especially if your party doesn't have daylight.

Cuddly
2007-12-27, 01:26 AM
I always thought a thri-kreen would make a sweet assassin. Psychic rogue, I'm thinking. Throw tons of poisoned shuriken, daggers, hand axes. Wear a trench coat and a wide brimmed hat. Jump impossibly high while unloading a fuselage of darts.

Talic
2007-12-27, 01:35 AM
The best assassins have few levels in the Assassin PrC. Lotsa decent builds here, but in my opinion, the best assassins use the level 1 class feature to it's full effect.

Fighter(or ToB class) X/Rogue3/Assassin1 would be a good build. Focus on long range combat and sniping (Able sniper, and the like). Use a variety of poisons. Other options include a similar build with Arcane Archer and Assassin for poison and magic. The focus is on players being too far away to SEE you while hiding, and then pick them off with poison and spell. Skulk works REALLY well for this... Since the bonus to hide will more than counter the penalty for sniping (with all the right feats, I believe you'll be taking a -10 to hide to snipe... which is attack then hide in same round. You should get a free move action from feats after the 1st round).

Cuddly
2007-12-27, 01:43 AM
The best assassins have few levels in the Assassin PrC. Lotsa decent builds here, but in my opinion, the best assassins use the level 1 class feature to it's full effect.

Fighter(or ToB class) X/Rogue3/Assassin1 would be a good build. Focus on long range combat and sniping (Able sniper, and the like). Use a variety of poisons. Other options include a similar build with Arcane Archer and Assassin for poison and magic. The focus is on players being too far away to SEE you while hiding, and then pick them off with poison and spell. Skulk works REALLY well for this... Since the bonus to hide will more than counter the penalty for sniping (with all the right feats, I believe you'll be taking a -10 to hide to snipe... which is attack then hide in same round. You should get a free move action from feats after the 1st round).

If by long range you mean... 30 feet?
Otherwise, don't bother with Asn.

Armads
2007-12-27, 02:34 AM
You can't even death attack at range, unless you cast a spell, which will give you death attack at up to 30ft. Which is horrible. It's much better to use Smiting spell to get stuff like Slay living on your arrows, then shoot them at people from thousands of feet away. Hence, Assassins aren't the best 'assassins'.

JackMage666
2007-12-27, 02:38 AM
So, what Armads is saying is, be a Crafting Wizard who makes Slay Living arrows. You'll have say in the DCs, and craft them to whoever you need to kill. As well, True Strike and things like that make the attack deliverable.

Plus, spells like Greater Invisibility and things like that help for stealth.

Or, you could just go with kills spells, things like that. There are alot of options.

SadisticFishing
2007-12-27, 02:45 AM
Actually, Slay Living is a cleric spell. Get Zen Archery and Smiting Spell, shoot lots of arrows of Death(tm) at your target.

For a simple Assassin, Rogue 2/Swasbuckler 3/Assassin X is actually pretty good. With the Spell Compendium, there are some decent Assassin spells. Make sure that you have Dex/Int/Cont.

The Dark Template is very good too.

Armads
2007-12-27, 02:46 AM
You don't need Craft to place Slay Living in arrows. Smiting Spell works, too, but it only lasts 1 minute.

Talic
2007-12-27, 02:57 AM
If by long range you mean... 30 feet?
Otherwise, don't bother with Asn.

Who said anything about Death Attack? The best use of Assassin is, sadly, Poison Use. Sit at 3 range increments out with a composite longbow and various poisons. Death Attack is a rather underpowered ability.

Remember, rogue types, no matter how good they are, will never have AC that enables them to mix it up with the party. They have reflex saves, but wizards will target the juicy will and fort save. Their best advantage is not being seen. Losing Sneak Attack and Death attack is a small price to pay when you're hitting the wizard with con damage poison off the bat, move, then move to the meatshields and hit up those mental stats, and then close and try to Death Attack the remnants... Or sneak attack them. Your call.

Either way, choose the battleground, and have at it.

Remember, the OP wanted a Deadly Assassin, not an Assassin with a powerful Death Attack.

JackMage666
2007-12-27, 03:00 AM
Mmmm.. Mental Poisons are also fun, if you can get them. Nothing tops hitting the Wizard for Intelligence Damage, crippling there most powerful weapon... Hehe, good times...

Talic
2007-12-27, 03:09 AM
Mmmm.. Mental Poisons are also fun, if you can get them. Nothing tops hitting the Wizard for Intelligence Damage, crippling there most powerful weapon... Hehe, good times...

Hitting most characters in their Dump stat (str for mages, Cha for most others) will take them out of the fight sooner, usually... But yeah, dropping 6-9 points from a wizard's int will usually turn him into a 12 year old boy in a dress.

JackMage666
2007-12-27, 03:12 AM
Hitting most characters in their Dump stat (str for mages, Cha for most others) will take them out of the fight sooner, usually... But yeah, dropping 6-9 points from a wizard's int will usually turn him into a 12 year old boy in a dress.

Utter Humiliation beats Killing any day, especially for BBEGs.

Talic
2007-12-27, 03:16 AM
Utter Humiliation beats Killing any day, especially for BBEGs.

Dropping strength to 0 is non-fatal also, and results in the wizard being able to watch the fight just fine, as long as it involves nothing as strenuous as turning his head, and nothing more strenuous than blinking.

Kaelik
2007-12-27, 03:34 AM
Hitting anyone with any poison becomes pretty much pointless after level 6 because they make their save on everything but a one.

Cuddly
2007-12-27, 03:36 AM
Yeah, poison is pretty much a huge waste of cash.

The_Snark
2007-12-27, 03:44 AM
Not necessarily. The most expensive poisons have higher save DCs, and also deal enough damage to be pretty threatening (lotus extract and dragon bile, notably). A DC of 26 is reasonably threatening even to high-level characters. There are also much more powerful poisons in Dungeonscape, some of which are incredibly lethal.

Any threatening poison is also too expensive for casual use by PCs, but this is an NPC; you don't really need to worry about that all that much. Presumably, the assassin's employers are paying him enough to make it worthwhile.

JackMage666
2007-12-27, 03:45 AM
Drow of the Underdark gives you some good Poison boosting feats, increasing DCs and things like that. That should make it considerable more useful (they're general feats, most of them, so they're good for Non-Drow, too).

Talic
2007-12-27, 03:52 AM
Hitting anyone with any poison becomes pretty much pointless after level 6 because they make their save on everything but a one.

I'm not sure what poisons you're looking at, But a levle 6 wizard has a Base Fort of +2. With a +2 con, that's +4.

Now, I don't know of any DC 5 poisons out there, to be quite honest.

Even a fighter at level 6 is gonna have around a +5 base, +4 con, and we'll say a +4 racial, and +2 from feats... That's a +15... Now there are quite a few DC 16 or less poisons out there, but there are also DC 26's, which would be a 50/50 at level 6.

The only person that needs to fail on round 1 is the wizard. Thus, wind wall won't come up and such. Even if it does, sniping and moving is an option, strafing around the wind wall. After that, every 10 uses of DC 5 poison should result in one fail (2 saves per instance), and you can coat more than 1 arrow per dose, I believe.

At ECL 12-15, manyshot is an option, allowing for hits to multiple people, and at 300 or so feet (-2 to hit and -10 hide from sniping vs -29 spot from distance), you have plenty of wiggle room.

Above assumes Able Sniper and Far Shot. If there's a party rogue, you'll have to consign yourself to getting close, for him, but the rest of the party shouldn't be a problem, assuming wizard gets hit for a buttload of Int, Str, or Cha damage right off the bat. Even without the poison, sniping will be effective, if slow. Poison will just allow for a slightly faster takedown.

Edit: The Dwarven Paladin 2, Fighter 2, Ranger 1, PrC 1 can provide:
18 con, 18 cha, all classes with good fort save, a fort feat, and the dwarf racial bonus:
+4(con), +4(cha), +10(base), +4(Racial), +2 Feat = +24, which would be any poison in the DMG on a 2 or better... But that's hardly a typical level 6 character.

Jannex
2007-12-27, 04:58 AM
Edit: The Dwarven Paladin 2, Fighter 2, Ranger 1, PrC 1 can provide:
18 con, 18 cha, all classes with good fort save, a fort feat, and the dwarf racial bonus:
+4(con), +4(cha), +10(base), +4(Racial), +2 Feat = +24, which would be any poison in the DMG on a 2 or better... But that's hardly a typical level 6 character.

Well, 20 Con, 16 Cha, given that it's a dwarf, but the math comes out the same, so it makes little difference.

mapexman115
2007-12-27, 05:40 AM
Rogue 4, Fighter 4, Warlock 4-6 (depending on what exact CR you want)

If it must be a human, then so be it, but do your NPC a favor and add the Dark +1 Lv.Adj. template (Tome of Magic), or the Shadow +2 Lv.Adj. template (Lords of Madness). Making an assassin doesn't necessarily have to include the actual Assassin class. You can easily sub-in a level of Assassin in place of rogue4, or any number of warlock levels if you want, but it won't do much for this particular build. As far as feats go: Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus/Spec., Power Attack, Darkstalker (again, LoM), and Mage Slayer (Com. Arcane) are all usefull. A +(whatever) keen, wounding Falchion or greatsword is a good place to start for a primary melee weapon. High base damage and up to a 25% chance of a critical hit are great selling points for anyone, so why not a sneaky-stabby, too?

Surprise Round. Use the Hideous Blow invocation, or attack with the standard Eldritch blast within 30 feet to gain Sneak Attack damage. If you must use a Death Attack then you'll have to use the Hideous Blow with a melee weapon. This way you get your Blast, +3d6 Sneak Attack, high base damage, and maybe even a Death Attack to top it all off.

Round 1 If you won initiative, which you should have, Continue the assault on the intendid target. A full-round of sneak attacks or one more shot with the Hideous Blow should have any PC seriously rethinking plans for that session. :smallbiggrin:

Round 2 If your target is still standing, flee, hide (here's where the templates make this character stupid-effective), and try again in R3 or R4. (Repeat these 2 rounds as needed to drop the target) Especially if he/she's got a group of friends with him/her. If his/her friends are elsewhere, grin maniacally and go find them.

Any magic items of stabbitty, blastitty, or otherwise painful death or disability can be employed in the surprise round(s). Unfortunately, it's late so I'm going to bed but feel free to ask after recommendations on this or any other point.

Best of luck with your bloody PC slaughterings! :smallbiggrin:

shaka gl
2007-12-27, 01:34 PM
Thanks for all the ideas, im considering most of them.
One thing I forgot to say, this dude has to be specially good at killing Divine people (clerics, paladins, favored souls, etc...).
Thanks again!

Keld Denar
2007-12-27, 02:10 PM
I got hit once by a Duergar thrall fighter thing once in the middle of the night. Its master (an Illithid rogue/assassin) dropped a Passwall SLA and the thing came through the stone walls in the castle we were staying. It had a symbiote tenticle thing from the illithid attached to it(something from Lords of Madness probably). The illithid could watch and take actions through the tenticle. The illithid sat invisible in the hallway created by the Passwall and mindblasted every round through the symbiote. The high AC duergar attacked with his sword. After 3 rounds of this, the illithid moves silently into the room and death attacks anyone stunned by the mind blasts. The worst part about it was that the tenticle thing oppenend up with a blast of slime that did very little damage, but lowered everyone's will save by 4, regardless of save.

It was a pretty nasty encounter. Our DM was particularly pleased that he was able to scare the everlivinbajebus out of us. Take a peak into Lords of Madness, find out what this thing was, give it to an illithid assassin, and kill your player's characters.

mapexman115
2007-12-29, 03:37 PM
Well, as for killing divine casters, weapons aligned against them would be a good place to start, Unholy is expensive (+2 equiv.) but worth it if you're fighting multiple types of good things. Also, a Bane would be good. Whatever's the most common creature type among the intended targets. Also, with all those rogue levels you can work up a good Use Magic Device modifier, which will allow you to employ scrolls and wands with fun spells like Unholy blight, or Chaos Hammer, or Dictum, or whatever seems more appropriate.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-29, 03:46 PM
Something I've been rolling around my head (and I think is almost done) is a build I like to call the Far Hand of Shar. Sorcerer 5/Spellthief 1/Arcane Devotee 1/Spellwarp Sniper 2/Shadow Adept 2/Child of Shadow 3/Spellwarp Sniper +3/Uncanny Trickster 3. Use your Uncanny Trickster levels to advance Spellwarp Sniper. You end up with CL 18, full spellthieving (with the Master Spellthief feat, anyway), free Enlarge 1+Cha times per day, the ability to warp spells of up to 7th level, and some other very shadow-thematic abilities. Might be worth looking into.

mabriss lethe
2007-12-30, 12:23 AM
Might I recommend a hexblade then? Full BAB, some nasty spells, and an ability to inflict serious suck upon anyone. Top that up with a Cursespewing longbow then unleash a phantasmal killer and/ or cursed blade spell.

Talic
2007-12-30, 12:50 AM
In Scarred Lands, there's a spell, level 6 or 7 or so, that severs the connection of a divine caster with his deity for 1 round/level. You could give your assassin an intelligent weapon that has the special purpose of defeating holy warriors and the ability to use a similar ability 1/day, with a duration of 10 rounds. Perhaps give it Dispel Magic as a spell like ability, at 10th caster level too. 3/day, perhaps?