View Full Version : Turin, son of Hurin, AGAIN

2007-12-26, 11:55 PM
What would the stat block for this epic warrior from Tolkien's work look like?
He did kill a dragon, countless orcs, a skilled elven warrior (surprised him though), and never died until he killed himself.

2007-12-27, 04:36 AM
I'd just make him an epic fighter with good gear. I mean, what else did he do?

2007-12-27, 05:17 AM
Epic fighter will do just fine, true.

The only problem is that for all other famous Tolkien characters, Epic fighter will do just as fine and they will end up all the same. You can describe many things with "high HD high BAB many feats" but not really differentiate them.

Kurald Galain
2007-12-27, 05:57 AM
The only problem is that for all other famous Tolkien characters, Epic fighter will do just as fine and they will end up all the same. You can describe many things with "high HD high BAB many feats" but not really differentiate them.

Well, yes, but how is that a problem? The whole point of many of those Tolkien characters is that they're not differentiated by ability, only by lineage.

2007-12-27, 06:02 AM
True. But the OP couid be rephrased as : given that all the epic middle earth first age fighter look a bit like the same, how would you stat them trying to be a bit original?
Tolkien did not have d20 or any RPG in mind, which gives us some room for play in what is a pure exercise. Turin is also much better characterized than other monolitic all epic and royalty in the blood warriors the like of Tuor.

1st age power scale was left intentionally vague and incredibly high, with Tuor slaying 3 balrogs in the same day with his axe, while it took 10 days to a full fledged staff-and-ring-and-sword wielding maiar to take down just one.

Whether because the Balrog of Moria was just that kickass or because worriors back then used to be godlike or because Balrogs were not all that impossible to kill or a combination of the three, this is debatable.

A nice challenge would be to stat guys like Turin, Hurin, Huor and Tuor without throwing in 30 levels out of 20 and filling in the feats. What is a constant is that, strong as they were, they were still just men. A bit like Conan's father saaid, not Gods. Not Giants. Just men.

Turin was almost matchless in a field battle with any number of orcs between 0 and 20, although he did take his risks and a lucky arrow could have shot him down just like one of hius mighty ancestors. He did slay a dragon, but with a very cheap shot and a kickass sword (possibly the most powerful ever forged, a true Stormbringer ante litteram, made of black star metal and endowed with a wicked ego). he was an accomplished tracker and hunter, able to survive on his own for many days in a wild and dangerous forest. he was a decent harp player or used to be in his young days. he is remarkably fit and strong, as he lifts one of the invaders of his household with one arm. He did shoot well enough with the bow and was a good runner and climber.
he was picked to slay Morgoth in the Ragnarok, so a good power boost is quite probable for guys like him. He was pure hatred and vengeance, and his Fate was still unfulfilledwhen he died, so that's why he was picked. He was wild, and aggressive, with that sort of rugged hero charisma around him.

So , taking with a grain of salt the wiki in the spoiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BArin_Turambar), I'd start to suggest

Túrin was also taken sick at that time, but recovered. His closest childhood friend was Sador One-foot, a woodwright who taught him much wisdom.
The Siege of Angband was already broken at that time, but Túrin's homeland of Dor-lómin was still contested against the forces of the Dark Lord Morgoth by the Folk of Hador. When Túrin was eight years old, Húrin lead most of his Men to war, and all were slain during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

So a plague he survived and some wise mentorship. Again, too young to stat him.

Húrin himself was captured alive, and cursed by Morgoth together with his family. Dor-lómin was invaded by the Easterlings at Morgoth's command. Túrin remained with Morwen, who hid him from the Incomers, fearing that they would enslave or kill him as the heir of both Dor-lómin and Ladros. She sent him secretly and under protection of Grithnir and Gethron to the Elven-realm of Doriath; Morwen remained in Dor-lómin herself, and shortly afterwards Túrin's second sister, Nienor, was born. Túrin and his guides eventually reached Doriath, and were enmeshed in the Girdle of Melian. There they came near to death, but the marchwarden Beleg Strongbow found them and led to the halls of Menegroth. King Thingol adopted Túrin, in memory of the deeds of Húrin and because of his kinship with Beren. One of Túrin's friends there was an elven-lady Nellas, who watched him over at Queen Melian's bidding and taught elven-lore. Túrin became esteemed and renowned for his prowess and hardihood, and Beleg became his teacher of warfare.

Hmm....How about to start as a Ranger? Elven lore and the guidance of a skilled masrhwarden. Thats screams ranger.

When after eight years Dor-lómin was cut off and tidings from Morwen and Nienor ceased, Túrin decided to put his strength against Morgoth's forces, hoping to avenge thus the sorrows of his kin. Thingol appointed him to be one of his "knights of the sword", and Túrin departed to the northern marches of Doriath to fight the Orcs, where he was joined by Beleg. His chief weapon for ever after became the sword, and in addition he wore now the Dragon-helm of Hador, so that the Orcs began to fear him more than any other.

All right. Sword (and maybe bow) guerrilla fighter with elevn companion. That still says long marches, runs, and ambushes to the ranger's sworn enemy: orcs.

At the age of twenty, Túrin accidentally caused the death of Saeros, one of Thingol's counsellors, who had scorned him for his attire and mortal lineage. Túrin injured him for this, but later was ambushed by Saeros. Túrin overpowered him, chasing him at the sword point to a ravine where, in an attempt to jump, Saeros stumbled and died on the rocks below. Before Túrin could have been either punished or absolved, he fled from Doriath, fearing imprisonment and heedless of Mablung's counsels. Thingol, after learning of the circumstances from Nellas, eventually pardoned Túrin, and Beleg obtained leave to seek out his friend.

We don't know who this Saeros jerk was (but he was a Noldo, so...). Overpowering a noldo at the court of Thingol isn't everyday activity for most of us. Turin's got to have some high stats , average level and special racial traits (other than plot boosting)

Túrin was unaware of this and fled westward, eventually meeting up with a band of outlaws called Gaurwaith that dwelt in the woods south of the river Taeglin. He proved his worth for them by killing one of their best warriors, and thus earned himself a place in the band.

Well, IIRC, he just plain old slain one if the thugs, although a strong one, and was ready but not too eager to take on all the other bandits, that by sheer numeric superiority could have ended his life (although not at a low cost). So, he joins a band of rogues...hmm, perhaps a level in that class, or more ranger-ing?

At that moment he wished neither to depart anywhere else, nor to strive with them, and so he did little to restrain other members from their evil deeds, such as harassing scattered homesteads of Men. After a year, in attempt to save the daughter of a woodman Larnach, Túrin slew by mishap the leader of the band Forweg. He claimed then his place, and this was granted to him as to "the best men" among the outlaws.

Wooot! Level up!

[I]Soon Beleg found the band in the wild, while Túrin was absent spying upon the Orcs. The outlaws treated the Elf badly, and this as well as the counsels of Beleg made Túrin stop the lawless way of the band's life, hunting hereafter only the servants of Angband. He rejected Beleg's advice to return to Doriath, and the Elf then departed to Menegroth. Later Túrin's band captured Mîm the Petty-dwarf; his two sons escaped, but one of them, Khîm, was mortally wounded by an outlaw Andróg. In order to save his own life, Mîm was forced to share his dwellings upon the hill of Amon Rûdh with the band.

Beleg returned to Túrin after a time, healing those of the band that had become sick with cold and delivering them lembas of Melian. He also brought the Dragon-helm, and the area around Amon Rûdh became known as Dor-Cúarthol, the "Land of Bow and Helm". Many warriors joined them, and much of West Beleriand was freed from evil by the prowess of the "Two Captains", Beleg and Túrin. However, by wearing the Helm Túrin revealed his identity to Morgoth, who sent therefore a host of Orcs against Amon Rûdh two years later.[5] These found Mîm, and he once again bought his life by leading them up the hill. Túrin was captured and all his men slain, except Beleg and Andvír.[7]

Ok. More Ranger. After all he uses no shield and wear just a chain shirt.

Beleg followed the Orcs through the forest of Taur-nu-Fuin, where he met Gwindor, a slave who escaped from Angband. Together they rescued Túrin upon the confines of Anfauglith. Unfortunately, when Beleg was cutting the sleeping Túrin free from his bonds, he pricked Túrin's foot with the sword Anglachel, and Túrin, mistaking Beleg in the darkness for an orc come to torment him, took the sword and slew Beleg. Túrin became dazed with grief after this, but Gwindor led him to the Pools of Ivrin, where he returned to senses.

They journeyed to the hidden fortress of Nargothrond, where Gwindor had lived before. He gave Beleg's black sword Anglachel to Túrin now, who had it reforged and renamed as Gurthang, "Iron of Death". Túrin hid his own name, eventually becoming known as Mormegil or the Blacksword of Nargothrond, because of his prowess with Gurthang. Gwindor met there again his beloved, Finduilas daughter of King Orodreth, but she unwillingly fell in love with Túrin; however, Túrin did not perceive this and held her in awe.

Túrin was extremely influential in Nargothrond, becoming a chief counsellor of Orodreth and eventually overruling both him and Gwindor. He encouraged the Elves to abandon their practice of secrecy, and they built a great bridge before the Doors of Nargothrond and managed to clear the land between River Sirion and Falas from enemies. However, Túrin became arrogant, ignoring even a warning from the Vala Ulmo, brought by Gelmir and Arminas, to destroy the bridge and return to secrecy.

Perhaps some more directly fighter-related stuff? Or even a level of Aristocrat?

When Túrin had dwelt in Nargothrond for five years,[5] Morgoth sent a great host of Orcs led by the dragon Glaurung against Nargothrond, and Túrin encouraged Orodreth to send his forces to fight them in the open. During the ensuing Battle of Tumhalad, Nargothrond's forces were destroyed and Orodreth was slain, while the bridge helped Morgoth's forces to locate the fortress and cross the river Narog. Túrin fought valiantly and was alone able to withstand Glaurung, but he forsook the battle to carry away the mortally wounded Gwindor. Before he died, he instructed Túrin to save Finduilas, prophecising that she alone can save Túrin from his doom.

Yeah, that fighter level you took came handy Turin.
Hastening to save the captives of Nargothrond, Túrin was caught by the powerful gaze of Glaurung, and stood by enspelled and moveless as Finduilas was dragged away, calling to him. The dragon deceived him into believing that Morwen and Nienor were suffering in Dor-lómin, and Túrin abandoned Finduilas to seek out his kin.

Low Will Saves. You don't want them...but still...

Next year he reached Dor-lómin, but found his old house empty and went to the halls of Brodda the Easterling, who had taken Húrin's lands and possessions. There Túrin learned from Brodda's wife Aerin that Morwen had already left for Doriath before the fall of Nargothrond, as Túrin's own efforts had made the way passable. In his rage he killed Brodda and his followers, rising a revolt. As he left, Aerin burnt herself alive in her halls, and the remnant of the Folk of Hador was persecuted even more cruelly from that time.

Túrin next tried to find Finduilas and followed the trail towards the forest of Brethil, but came too late: the woodmen informed him that she had been killed by the orcs when the Men of Brethil had ambushed them in an attempt to rescue the prisoners. Túrin collapsed of grief upon her grave, and was brought to Ephel Brandir. There he took up his life again, now calling himself Turambar ("Master of Doom") and renouncing his descent, hoping to overcome thus his curse. The Folk of Haleth dwelling there was ruled by Brandir the Lame, who hoped to preserve his people by secrecy. Turambar quickly gained the favour of the Folk and once again overruled Brandir, gathering companies to fight Orcs upon the borders. He stopped wielding Gurthang and fought rather with a spear and a bow.

More ranger.

Meanwhile Morwen and Nienor dwelt in Doriath, but when the news of Nargothrond's destruction had reached them, they rashly went to look for Túrin, aided by a small company of Elves. Glaurung, who now lived in the ruined halls of Nargothrond, descended into the river so that a fog rised and enmeshed the company. Morwen was lost, but Nienor met the dragon and was enspelled by him, forgetting her past. Eventually she fled from both the Elves and the Orcs that pursued her and reached Brethil.

Turambar found her at Finduilas's grave, naked, unable to speak and remembering nothing. He named her Níniel, "Maid of Tears", and took her to Ephel Brandir. There she was healed by Brandir, who fell in love with her; however, Níniel and Turambar came to love each other. Túrin asked her in marriage, but Brandir managed to dissuade her, foreboding evil; yet when Turambar had vowed to forsake war for her sake, Níniel finally married him. Turambar broke his promise when Glaurung sent Orcs to assail Brethil: taking the sword up again, Túrin drove them away, taking control of the Folk from Brandir. Next year Níniel conceived; however, soon Glaurung attacked Brethil himself.

Turambar decided to ambush the Dragon as he crossed the ravine of Cabed-en-Aras and to try stabbing him from beneath. He took two companions with him, Dorlas and Hunthor, but the first deserted them and the other was slain by a stone. Turambar mortally wounded Glaurung with Gurthang, but was hurt by the venom of the Dragon's blood and fell in a swoon. When Níniel came to search for him, Glaurung with his last words undid his spell, and she remembered who she was and realised that Turambar was her brother. Horrified, Nienor cast herself over the brink of the ravine into the river Taeglin and died.

Brandir witnessed this, and when Turambar awoke, he told him what had happened. Refusing to believe and in wrath on his fate, Túrin smote the defenceless Brandir to death and ran in madness towards Finduilas's grave. There he was met by Mablung of Doriath, who proved the words of Brandir. In despair Túrin fled back to Cabed-en-Aras and cast himself upon the point of his sword Gurthang.

Túrin was buried in a high mound near the brink of Cabed-en-Aras, together with Gurthang which had broken asunder. A great stone was set upon the grave, upon which the Elves wrote in Cirth, the runes of Doriath:


However, Nienor's body was not there and could not have been found. Two years later Morwen and Húrin met at that place for the last time, and Morwen was also buried there. The mound survived the War of Wrath and the Drowning of Beleriand, and as Tol Morwen was one of the islands off the coast of Middle-earth in later ages.

So, high level ranger with a level or two of fighter, one of aristoicrat and one or two of rogue.

Túrin is said to have been one of the fairest Men to have ever lived: "dark-haired and pale-skinned, ... his face more beautiful than any other among mortal Men, in the Elder Days."In this he is stated to have taken after his mother Morwen, descended from the House of Bëor, in contrast to his fair-haired father Húrin from the House of Hador.According to Gwindor's words, Túrin was very tall, "as tall as are the Men from the misty hills of Hithlum,"
in which he supposedly took after his grandfather Galdor the Tall since both Húrin and the Folk of Bëor were shorter than was usual among the Men of Hador.
Tolkien was not consistent in describing Túrin's eyes. According to some texts "he had the beauty of his mother and the eyes of his father",[11] which were blue,[12] while in other Túrin is said to have inherited the grey eyes of his mother.[9] It is also stated that his eyes were bright,[6] and that "few indeed could challenge the eyes of Túrin in set will or in wrath."[13] Thus it is possible that he inherited the "elven-light ... hard to endure" of his mother's eyes.

So, aside from INTIMIDATE maxed out, we have high con (strong and tall build, able to take punishment and deprivation) and high CHA (elven heritage).
Shall we say CON 16 and CHA 16?

As a child of five years, Túrin is described thus:
“ He was dark-haired as his mother, and promised to be like her in mood also; for he was not merry, and spoke little, though he learned to speak early and ever seemed older than his years. Túrin was slow to forget injustice or mockery; but the fire of his father was also in him, and he could be sudden and fierce. Yet he was quick to pity, and the hurts or sadness of living things might move him to tears."

So, not more than halfway decent WIS (quick temper, sudden moodswings) and good INT (smart bastard)

More follows, but I am curious to see what the OP thinks.


2007-12-27, 10:14 AM
I like your rational, though I'm not a fan of sighting wikipedia. But all of those statements are true of Turin, so I'd say that is one definate possibility, a likely one at that.

PS. I hope Rutee doesn't try to crash this thread too.