Warhammer: Game of fantasy battles

[Quinsar]

Not 40k not online the original game of fantasy battles warhammer
I was browsing the forums and couldn't seem to find one so i decided to make one feel free to discuss tactics any new updates or just about anything else

(if there is already one of these which are active link me it here)

[Keris]

It seems the old thread has slipped off page 3. All hail the new thread! You might want to change the title line to 'Warhammer: Game of Fantasy Battles' so it can be more easily distinguished from the 40K thread.

What army(s) do you collect? My favourite is Skaven, because they're fun, although I might take up High Elves.

[Archaicwonder]

I had a couple of posts in the old thread, but yes, All Hail the new Thread!

I play Dwarves at the moment, an old clan that disdains the use of gunpowder, having been deep in lost mines for centuries. My quarrelers and bolt throwers can be quite effective, though I'm not the best general. Before siding with the stunties, I led the Sunset Host of Pharoh Arklimephset, a mostly chariot TK army. It either lost spectacularly or won spectaculary and was a lot of fun to play.

My wife has a beautifully painted Lizardman army, lots of mobile skinks. She's currently working on a group of pansy high elves, and plans on getting one of those new dragons with her Christmas money.

So, how many on this site like playing at a gaming store, versus playing on a home table? I don't have alot of room in my house, so anything over 1k points getting settled at my local (read: 1 hour drive away) GW store.

[Blayze]

I prefer playing on a home table. It's safer for everyone, as if I'm at my local GW and some Little Timmy breaks one of my models, I have less in the way of implements to assault them with.

"Freeze! You're nicked!"
"You saw it! You all saw it! He touched my Elector Count! I had every right!"

I have myself an Empire army (For balance) and a small contingent of Dogs of War gathering dust somewhere. And when I say "balance", I really mean "Artillery, Knights, Flaggellants and Wizards backed up by the cheapest sacrificial units I could find."

[Quinsar]

ive always preffered playing a home table but thats probably because i have
a 6 by 6 gaming table with full terrain features.

I play orks have ever since i got bfsp i still use some of those night goblins in my main army

[Archaicwonder]

we're working on terrain for a table, I bought the fantasy buildings set. Just don't have the room yet. I enjoy playing at the store for the different army types I see. My town has the few people I've taught to play WFB, and I know how they like to play. The store has some crazy stuff going on at times.

[Oeep Snaec]

I have an empire army that I need to continue painting. I've discovered that against my cousin's dwarves, if I can get my Knights of the White Wolf into his flank, they can roll up basically his entire army in the next few turns. However, when he set up a gun line that maybe had two units move a total of 12 or so inches over 6 turns, my Knights were slaughtered and the game was boring.

[Elfanatic]

I play an Empire army of 5000 points, of which a quarter is painted (poorly), another quarter is assembled (again, poorly), and the remaining 50 % is still in the box. Basically, I find that I like making/reading stories and background for my armies, but delay any actual work.

However, I'm still valued at my gaming club for my near encyclopedian (spelling?) knowledge of the rules, army books, White Dwarfs and FAQ.


@ Oeep Snaec

Winning against a gun-mad Dwarf Throng is quite hard...especially because those stubby bastards can take Miners, who can get behind your own gun-line as early as the second turn.

"Come on lads, lets rip them a new one!"

Whenever I get the feeling our local Dwarf King takes a motherlode of gunpowder to the battle, I take an infantry horde with an Ld 9 general and a battlestandard bearer. Just protect your more valuable units with free company or archers, and swarm the gunline. A Pegasus-riding captain for warmachine destruction helps too.

[Oeep Snaec]

Hmm, I'll have to give that one a try. I'll need to take a few proxies to get the most infantry, but it could work. What do you think of using a unit of knights as a decoy to draw fire? If he falls for it, it could draw a lot of potentially deadly shots away from infantry.

[Elfanatic]

That could work, but be carefull on the unit's size. You shouldn't go over 6 vanilla knights for a simple decoy. Alltough a musican can come in handy for rally's.

Which reminds me: when picking magic items and/or magical winds, take those who help with psychology checks. The Silver Horn, The Banner of Valour, Lore of Beasts: The Oxen Stands, Lore of Light: Guardian Light and others can make sure that your forces actually reach the gun-line instead of running away.

[Jakezor]

Been kickin' around since (counts backwards) 5th edition.

Got around 7k or Orcs and Goblins, which i'm currently procrastinating painting by collecting a Scared Spawning of Sotek Lizardman army! All hail the serpent god! Red Sauri for ever etc etc.

Eventually, I plan on making a mini army, 1k of Empire Calvary, for the lulz, like my *still unfinished* wolf rider detachment. Gotta get on that too.

[Kraggi]

I play Dwarves, and am now pretty tired of the gun line. After beating people soundly before they hit me, I got pretty tired of it. There wasn't any fun in it for anyone. So now I play to my army's weaknesses. It's jolly good fun.

[thedavo]

Been kickin' around since (counts backwards) 5th edition.

Got around 7k or Orcs and Goblins, which i'm currently procrastinating painting by collecting a Scared Spawning of Sotek Lizardman army! All hail the serpent god! Red Sauri for ever etc etc.

Eventually, I plan on making a mini army, 1k of Empire Calvary, for the lulz, like my *still unfinished* wolf rider detachment. Gotta get on that too.

i did a 2000pt wolf boy army in the last ed book, it was well funny, especially the game when my big unit of "heavy" cavalry charged in, supported by two flank charges, and bounced off it in true gobbo style. the only real hitting power i had was the two giants.

the 3k game i had against khemri which had a load of wolf boys in was a right laugh aswell, except for losing massive amounts of troops every turn to the casket of souls.

i think my fantasy greenskins are around the 10k mark all in... very little is painted.

[Scroofy]

Hey all,

I recently started playing about 6 months but I have a pretty decent 2250 point Lizardmen army. All tremble before the creations of the old ones!

[Blayze]

When your army's led by a frog on a dinner plate, the only trembling your enemies will be doing is as they convulse with laughter.

...Then the spells start flying.

[killingtime33]

hey man my brother has/had a lizard man army and they are cool

my sister has a dark elf army or um yeah whatever

and my other brother has Britonians (spelled wrong?) no one could defeat him

except my brother in law with his vast army of undead MUHAHAAHAHA!!!!!

I myself was starting on high elven when the shop nearest here was shutdown
:smallfrown: now i envy you all who are still able to play anyway this was my lame attempt to become involved (successs?)

[Zenos]

I play the Empire, but the only opponent I have is my Beastmen-playing brother and he is seriously whopping my ass with ambushes, anybody got a decent anti-ambush tactic with a pretty shooty Empire army?

[BloodyAngel]

my sister has a dark elf army or um yeah whatever

Pah! I too play the Druchii (dark elves for the laymen), and in the right hands, they kick much butt! They put off a lot of players, both new and old... because they require a whole lot of thinking and tactics to win. NOT an easy army to win with. Then again, I also play Ogres... who are also a very army difficult to use, so I may just be a Masochist.

Regardless... I show love to the Dark Elves! I haven't played much since I moved a few months ago, but I was the terror of my old group of players. The look on a player's face when he is beaten by a "weak" army is priceless. And by a girl, no less! :smallamused:

But since this is supposed to be about tactics and the like... does anyone have any good advice for using a dragon? I just picked up the new High Elf one, and am in the process of converting it to look about 85% more cool, so I can use it for my Dark Elves. I refused to use the old dragons, because I thought they (especially the blac dragon) looked stupid. So I have no experience with them. Obviously, it makes an amazing rank-breaker, and will attract fire from black-powder using cowards like no tomorrow. I figure I'll just screen him with forests and the like until my warmachine hunters have done their work... or I've lured the opponent's units into the mid-board... and I can swoop in and rip them into small bite-sized chunks. Any fellow dragon-users out there that can offer some advice?


As for empire advice... I don't play them. But I DID consider playing beastmen for a while. So maybe I can help a little. I'd suggest playing a very close-combat force of knights and infantry blocks against them. Beastmen are a close combat army, but they have trouble against CR and as skirmishers, most of their units can't break rank. They also have lousy armor and leadership, but are hard to hit with shooting. Try units of greatswords, flagellants, and halberdiers to block them in and hold them, then swing in with your knights to overwhelm them. You're going to have to lean away from shooting to take them down. They also don't fare too well against fear and terror... but I don't think the empire can do much about that without taking the emporer on his dragon.

[Keris]

my sister has a dark elf army or um yeah whatever

You don't like Dark Elves? Read the Darkblade novels, then you'll like them.

Try online for GW stuff if you can't find any near you.

[Zenos]

Pah! I too play the Druchii (dark elves for the laymen), and in the right hands, they kick much butt! They put off a lot of players, both new and old... because they require a whole lot of thinking and tactics to win. NOT an easy army to win with. Then again, I also play Ogres... who are also a very army difficult to use, so I may just be a Masochist.

Regardless... I show love to the Dark Elves! I haven't played much since I moved a few months ago, but I was the terror of my old group of players. The look on a player's face when he is beaten by a "weak" army is priceless. And by a girl, no less! :smallamused:

But since this is supposed to be about tactics and the like... does anyone have any good advice for using a dragon? I just picked up the new High Elf one, and am in the process of converting it to look about 85% more cool, so I can use it for my Dark Elves. I refused to use the old dragons, because I thought they (especially the blac dragon) looked stupid. So I have no experience with them. Obviously, it makes an amazing rank-breaker, and will attract fire from black-powder using cowards like no tomorrow. I figure I'll just screen him with forests and the like until my warmachine hunters have done their work... or I've lured the opponent's units into the mid-board... and I can swoop in and rip them into small bite-sized chunks. Any fellow dragon-users out there that can offer some advice?


As for empire advice... I don't play them. But I DID consider playing beastmen for a while. So maybe I can help a little. I'd suggest playing a very close-combat force of knights and infantry blocks against them. Beastmen are a close combat army, but they have trouble against CR and as skirmishers, most of their units can't break rank. They also have lousy armor and leadership, but are hard to hit with shooting. Try units of greatswords, flagellants, and halberdiers to block them in and hold them, then swing in with your knights to overwhelm them. You're going to have to lean away from shooting to take them down. They also don't fare too well against fear and terror... but I don't think the empire can do much about that without taking the emporer on his dragon.

The problem with playing a close combat army is that I don't have many big blocks of close combat infantry, I've got models for archers, crossbowmen, handgunners, a mortar (which I opt to use as a cannon) and a helblaster volley gun, and even a steam tanks, but I've barely got enough swordsmen to make a three-rank formation when used together with a captain, and one unit of Reiksguard, one unit of White Wolves and a unit of maneaters:smallbiggrin: . But since we usualy don't play big battles I often find myself overwhelmed with his units of skirmishing infantry who can form up in ranks when they enter close combat. The only reasonable tactic I know against them is to simply use the helblaster to kill the ambushing beastman herd, which gives me less firepower to put upon his big monsters...

[BloodyAngel]

You hit the nail on the head with your "mortar is a cannon" idea. Just take your ranged troops, and call them halberdiers or greatswords.... The trick isn't in the tactics, it's in your list. Warhammer functions on this principle.

A one-trick pony army will rock anyone who can't deal with it's trick.

A one-trick pony army will fail miserably at any army that CAN deal with it's trick.

By using a shoot-heavy list... you're leaving yourself insanely vulnerable to his ambushes... His "trick" counters yours. I'm not saying you can't beat beastmen with your gunline... but you're at a large disadvantage. Also... beastmen fare better in low point battles... and suffer when it comes to larger fights.

My suggestion... ditch the archers and crossbowmen, and call them greatswords. Take your swordsmen (not as good as halberiers or spearmen... but it will do), and take 2 or 3 maneaters. Have them form the "core" of your army, and march right at him, with the knights on your flanks. Maneaters and Greatswords are stubborn, and will make amazing anchors... What's more, they're both disgusting in close combat, and will make his beastherds look like children. What's more... Maneaters cause fear! Beastmen aren't so big on leadership... So they might not even be able to charge you.

I'm also well aware of the fact that beastherds rank up in close combat. (Technically... ALL skirmishing units do. But I'm guessing you meant that beastherds actually get a rank bonus for it...) They do NOT however... get a rank bonus higher than +2, or cause you to lose your rank bonus if they flank or rear charge you. They're still skirmishers. That's what I was talking about. You need to make a more well-rounded list, or you're at a disadvantage, as a shoot-heavy army only does it's thing if it has a few good turns to shoot before getting into close combat.

That, or get a Long Rifle and try like hell to snipe his general before he summons the ambushers... :smallamused:

[Zenos]

You hit the nail on the head with your "mortar is a cannon" idea. Just take your ranged troops, and call them halberdiers or greatswords.... The trick isn't in the tactics, it's in your list. Warhammer functions on this principle.

A one-trick pony army will rock anyone who can't deal with it's trick.

A one-trick pony army will fail miserably at any army that CAN deal with it's trick.

By using a shoot-heavy list... you're leaving yourself insanely vulnerable to his ambushes... His "trick" counters yours. I'm not saying you can't beat beastmen with your gunline... but you're at a large disadvantage. Also... beastmen fare better in low point battles... and suffer when it comes to larger fights.

My suggestion... ditch the archers and crossbowmen, and call them greatswords. Take your swordsmen (not as good as halberiers or spearmen... but it will do), and take 2 or 3 maneaters. Have them form the "core" of your army, and march right at him, with the knights on your flanks. Maneaters and Greatswords are stubborn, and will make amazing anchors... What's more, they're both disgusting in close combat, and will make his beastherds look like children. What's more... Maneaters cause fear! Beastmen aren't so big on leadership... So they might not even be able to charge you.

I'm also well aware of the fact that beastherds rank up in close combat. (Technically... ALL skirmishing units do. But I'm guessing you meant that beastherds actually get a rank bonus for it...) They do NOT however... get a rank bonus higher than +2, or cause you to lose your rank bonus if they flank or rear charge you. They're still skirmishers. That's what I was talking about. You need to make a more well-rounded list, or you're at a disadvantage, as a shoot-heavy army only does it's thing if it has a few good turns to shoot before getting into close combat.

That, or get a Long Rifle and try like hell to snipe his general before he summons the ambushers... :smallamused:

I do have three cavalry units, a swordsmen unit, a few spearmen and a unit of greatswords, forgot mentioning that, it is just that I am rather used to softening up the enemy before entering close combat. However, thanks for telling me they don't get to get bonuses for flanking, I hadn't noticed that rule.

[Eldpollard]

Poor old warhammer thread. I nurtured it from when I thought "hey let's do a warhammer thread" to my first post. Now it's died. But hurray for the new thread. I do skaven. And I'm planning on doing orcs and goblins next. Whaty can I say, I like lots of models.

I like armies that are fun. So unreliable warmachines and the ability to shoot my own people please me. Not so much when I burned my grey seer. They don't like warpfire throwers apparently. Who knew?

[BloodyAngel]

Poor old warhammer thread. I nurtured it from when I thought "hey let's do a warhammer thread" to my first post. Now it's died. But hurray for the new thread. I do skaven. And I'm planning on doing orcs and goblins next. Whaty can I say, I like lots of models.

I like armies that are fun. So unreliable warmachines and the ability to shoot my own people please me. Not so much when I burned my grey seer. They don't like warpfire throwers apparently. Who knew?


We shall revive the warhammer thread, you and I! And you're a brave man to play Skaven. I've never faced them... mostly because no one I know wants to buy and paint 4000 models to put together a 1000 point army. :smallbiggrin:

I play, as mentioned... Dark Elves. I also play ogres on occasion, and have a bunch of chaos that I got before I realized that the all-demon army blew. My boyfriend has some Vampire Counts, but mostly plays lizardmen.

My usual opponents are the lizards, high elves, dwarves (whom I hate with the burning passion of a thousand suns!), and on ocassion... empire. I'm curious what facing a skaven army would be like. I imagine a lot like facing goblins, only with less animosity, and more things exploding.

[Eldpollard]

We shall revive the warhammer thread, you and I! And you're a brave man to play Skaven. I've never faced them... mostly because no one I know wants to buy and paint 4000 models to put together a 1000 point army. :smallbiggrin:

I play, as mentioned... Dark Elves. I also play ogres on occasion, and have a bunch of chaos that I got before I realized that the all-demon army blew. My boyfriend has some Vampire Counts, but mostly plays lizardmen.

My usual opponents are the lizards, high elves, dwarves (whom I hate with the burning passion of a thousand suns!), and on ocassion... empire. I'm curious what facing a skaven army would be like. I imagine a lot like facing goblins, only with less animosity, and more things exploding.

Ah, well I had a bit of a time saver. Second hand models. 3000 points for £70. Certainly helps. Yeah, lot's of exploding things. Ah, it's fun to tie up chaos nights against 2 point slaves and then lob in poisoned wind globes. Killing things on a 4+ with no armour save. A few slaves die. A few of the poisoned wind globadiers die. And some knights die. I've never played against dark elves but they do look tempting to start myself.
It's odd. I'm awful at 40k yet I win games of fantasy. My usual opponents are ogres (which I tend to lose against. Usually it's close though) vampire counts (which I tend to beat) and I'll be playing against empire and dwarves soon.

Currently I have two boxes of clanrats to assemble. I've had one of the boxes for over a year.

[Zenos]

Currently I am trrying to put together a 600 pts army of Empire to fight Beasts of Chaos, and I have so far put together an army consisting of:

1 captain (full plate, greatsword, lacking in magic weapons right now) 62 pts.
14 swordsmen (full command) 109 pts.
10 spearmen (full command, shields) 70 pts.
5 knightly orders (full command, inner circle, Banner of the Daemonslayer)
Helblaster volley gun 110 pts.

Sum: 571 pts if my maths are right.
Any suggestions for magic items or some other neat additions to this army?

Note: Those spearmen can be used as halberdiers, if it is a mroe viable strategy.

[Pilum]

Currently I am trrying to put together a 600 pts army of Empire to fight Beasts of Chaos, and I have so far put together an army consisting of:

1 captain (full plate, greatsword, lacking in magic weapons right now) 62 pts.
14 swordsmen (full command) 109 pts.
10 spearmen (full command, shields) 70 pts.
5 knightly orders (full command, inner circle, Banner of the Daemonslayer)
Helblaster volley gun 110 pts.

Sum: 571 pts if my maths are right.
Any suggestions for magic items or some other neat additions to this army?

Note: Those spearmen can be used as halberdiers, if it is a mroe viable strategy.

The easiest addition is to give your captain Meteoric Armour. That's how I usually kit mine out (MA, greatsword, mainly because I've got a lovely old citadel/marauder miniature equipped in plate with a 2h sword that I really wanted to use again!) and while the striking last is a negative, I've never noticed it *really* mattering.

As for strategy, how are you using the spearmen? If as a detachment, halberds will be far more 'hitty' when they strike a flank.

As for the knights, personally I prefer the War Banner, mainly because knights (usually being small) generally need all the help they can get to cancel the outnumbering, however I don't really know that much about Beasts to know how viable Fear is against them.

Helblaster.... alas, I knew thee well... With the new changes (i.e. it rolls to hit) I'm not sure how useful this would be against Beastmen, as they usually operate in skirmish - well, 'loose' formation don't they? Still, the HVG still has its moments I guess.

As for expanding it, well the most obvious thing is missile power. Crossbows or handguns is a matter of taste and opponents really - against Wood Elves I'm actually thinking crossbows would be more useful due to the range, for instance. Archers are more useful to an attacking strategy, and a unit upgraded to scouts sat in a wood or farmstead on a flank can be a surprisingly effective nuisance unit. I think looking to expand the artillery arm is always worth considering, the exact type again depends on your usual opponents and what they typically bring, but having the ability to choose a cannon OR a mortar on an ad-hoc basis is well worth aiming for,

At some point I'd recommend flagellants. Not for *every* game perhaps, but the look of dismay on an opponents face as he realises he can't cut down every last one before your knights manouver for a flank charge is one of the more joyous moments as an Imperial officer.

Light Horse... I'm slowly coming back round to pistoliers, they're not what they were but I'm scoring successes with them. Outriders - never used them. The idea appeals, but I prefer my light horse mobile. Probably best to think of them as armoured dragoons rather than cavalry really.

Other things - obviously expanding your line of battle infantry regiments to at least 20 (preferably more to allow for casualties). Personally I feel this is the real strength of the Empire, so I take at least two large(ish) regiments where possible, fully detached. If I could squeeze in a 3rd I would, but that's probably more for a 2000pt game. A Battle Standard is a must at some point, how you equip it again is up to you, but personally I generally go for the magic banner option, typically the Imperial or the Griffon (watching an enemy unit charge a fully-ranked infantry unit with full command and this - especially with a flanking countercharge - is a thing of beauty :smallwink: ). Wizards and warrior priests have their uses too, possibly a hero (captain or WP) to stiffen the knights at some point.

Hope some of that helps. I know its a bit woolly but what works for me will not necessarily work for you. Good luck!

[Zenos]

Hmmm, okay. I think I am probably gonna swap the helblaster for some melee unit, maybe my greatswords. But when you say expand the regiments I have a little problem, I don't have any models to flesh them out with.

And yeah, my thoughts were on meteoric iron too :smallsmile:

EDIT: Some changes:
1 captain (full plate, greatsword, lacking in magic weapons right now) 62 pts.
14 swordsmen (full command) 109 pts.
10 spearmen (full command, shields) 70 pts.
5 knightly orders (full command, inner circle, War Banner) 180 pts.
10 greatswords (full command) 130 pts.

Strange, my calculator comes up with a total of 481 points, I thought it would cost more. Hmmm, maybe some more support. :smallconfused:

[Oeep Snaec]

You might consider taking out the Knights and adding a lvl 1 wizard (with lore of fire?) and add some reinforcements to the regiments. Some spells could weaken the enemy regiments and give yours the advantage in combat.

[Zenos]

You might consider taking out the Knights and adding a lvl 1 wizard (with lore of fire?) and add some reinforcements to the regiments. Some spells could weaken the enemy regiments and give yours the advantage in combat.

Hmmm, I don't know, I need to have some meat on the line, and I don't think I would get many rounds of uninterrupted casting if the Beastman player plays like he normally do.

[TheThan]

My brother gave me a box of ogre kingdoms for my birthday (the 26th) so now I have a smallish warhammer army.

I’ve come across a small problem perhaps someone could help me with.
I’m looking at the ogre bruiser hero in the codex to use as a leader until I can get a Tyrant, and enough models to field him). I can’t seem to find a model of it anywhere. I’ve checked the GW website to see if they have any bruiser models for purchase (seeing as they have examples of everything), to no avail. So how do I make a bruiser? Do I take a regular bull or iron belly and use the stats for a bruiser? Or what?

[Timarvay]

Yeah, a lot of heroes are like that. You can just take a model and mark it somehow, and use it to represent it. If you are feeling ambitious, do some conversions on it.

[TheThan]

Yeah, a lot of heroes are like that. You can just take a model and mark it somehow, and use it to represent it. If you are feeling ambitious, do some conversions on it.


Ahh thanks for the info. I'll have to see what i can do with it.

[BloodyAngel]

Sadly, many an army has few hero models, while others have a needless amount of them. I have ogres as well, about 2000 points of them. I still don't have a tyrant model. Just make a bull or irongut that you think looks impressive enough, and call him your tyrant. (Or spring for a Maneater, if you like). The dark elves also don't have many hero models. We have three special characters, and a sorceress model. This has pretty much forced most DE players to modify or convert their models from other places. In some cases, you can find other models to convert. It's not too hard to make another elven model look like a dark elf. As an ogre player... you're a bit more limited. They're a bit... girthy. (Also, a very hard army to start out on. Tricky to use right)

My advice? Get either a maneater or Tyrant model and simply CALL him a bruiser... or if you want to save cash, just nominate one of the ones you have, and mark him somehow. My tyrant is an irongut model with a chain mask and a giant hook-sword held over his head. I also have a two butchers, and a hunter. (The second butcher is actually Skrag, but on a single ogre base) I then stole skragg's little cook-pot to use as a Dark Elf couldron of blood! Yay resourcefulness! :smallbiggrin:

[TheThan]

The box comes with 14 ogres total, that’s 6 bulls, four Iron bellies and 4 lead belchers

So if I take the saving cash approach and nominate a bull that’ll leave me with a unit of 5 bulls and a bruiser, plus the iron bellies and the lead belchers… oh yeah the gnoblars but they’re largely insignificant.

Ok another question: if I upgrade a model in a unit from say a bull to a crusher, do I add the cost of the model to the listed price of the upgrade? So a crusher would cost 55 points not 20 right?

[BloodyAngel]

Yes... a crusher costs 55 points. But speaking from experience, I wouldn't bother. In terms of flat-out math, it's not worth spending 20 points for 1 extra attack... that's over half the cost of a new ogre. Unless you really have spare points lying around, skip the crushers. Musicians and Standards are usually a good buy though. Really, it will take quite a few games before you find your own style. Playing is really the only way to learn though. It takes practice... and ogres have a steep learning curve.

I'd suggest a site called Druchii.net. Technically, it's a dark elf site, but anyone is welcome there... and the advice is sound. Look up something called MSU tactics. It's short for Multiple Small Units. It's pretty much the only way ogres can play. They're too expensive to use in huge groups.

[TheThan]

Thanks for the info and that website.

One thing is that I only have the ogre kingdoms Battalion box, and I’m trying to see what I can do with just that. I think I might just barely be able to squeeze 1000 points out of it. It might be a while before I can expand and buy what I really need, so I’m making due with what I have.

[Zenos]

Ah, the problems of not having any heroes.

This is actualy a problem with my WH40k army, since I need a command section for my platoon of guardsmen and I just want a squad of guardsmen with chainswords and laspistols, but that would require me to buy far more guardsmen sets than I would like to.

Sorry for going on about another GW game, but the topic was so close on.

EDIT: By the way, I am about to paint my warrior priest of Sigmar, so I think maybe I can convince the Beasts of Chaos player to up the points a little, so I can use my wonderful Sigmarite fanatic. In that case, what magic items are good for a warrior priest, and where should I place him and such?

[BloodyAngel]

If you're using a warrior priest.... get a mage! Otherwise, his spells will be shut down entirely by your opponent's dispel dice. For a small game, one priest and a level 2 mage of ANY lore will do a good job of rocking the magic phase. i'd suggest taking the lore of fire, since most magic missiles don't roll to hit, which avoids the problem normally found when trying to shoot skirmishers.

As for the priest... look at the buffs he has and decide which unit can use them most. Also, make sure whichever unit you pick has a unit-champion... so your opponent can't simply challenge the priest and wipe him out with a nasty beastman hero. I don't know the empire terribly well... but I'd suggest throwing the priest in your swordsmen. They'll need the help more than the Greatswords, but they're tough enough that they won't fold around him and get him killed. (Hopefully) As for magic items... I can't help you there. I don't know what's in the empire book. In a small game though, you probably shouldn't load up on expensive stuff.

Pity there's no real way to play Warhammer online... It sounds like it would be fun to play against you guys. I'm getting pretty sick of fighting dwarves. Stupid GW favoritism! :smallyuk:

[king korath]

I am building a dark elf force right now. I think I will try three magic users to control the magic phase.

[Kojiro Kakita]

Hmm, there is actually a way to play warhammer (FB not the MMORPG) online. There was this one program that allowed you to create units representing the models and provided you with dice, tape measurer. It just required you to find an online opponent and have a copy of the rulebooks.

[Zenos]

If you're using a warrior priest.... get a mage! Otherwise, his spells will be shut down entirely by your opponent's dispel dice. For a small game, one priest and a level 2 mage of ANY lore will do a good job of rocking the magic phase. i'd suggest taking the lore of fire, since most magic missiles don't roll to hit, which avoids the problem normally found when trying to shoot skirmishers.

As for the priest... look at the buffs he has and decide which unit can use them most. Also, make sure whichever unit you pick has a unit-champion... so your opponent can't simply challenge the priest and wipe him out with a nasty beastman hero. I don't know the empire terribly well... but I'd suggest throwing the priest in your swordsmen. They'll need the help more than the Greatswords, but they're tough enough that they won't fold around him and get him killed. (Hopefully) As for magic items... I can't help you there. I don't know what's in the empire book. In a small game though, you probably shouldn't load up on expensive stuff.

Pity there's no real way to play Warhammer online... It sounds like it would be fun to play against you guys. I'm getting pretty sick of fighting dwarves. Stupid GW favoritism! :smallyuk:

Sounds okay for me, although I might maybe take lore of Death or something to play on the Beastmen's already weak leadership... but if I take a wizard I will probably equip him with a dispel scroll or two and maybe a staff of power.

[BloodyAngel]

Hmm, there is actually a way to play warhammer (FB not the MMORPG) online. There was this one program that allowed you to create units representing the models and provided you with dice, tape measurer. It just required you to find an online opponent and have a copy of the rulebooks.

If you're talking about LorenzWHFB... they charge for it now.... sadly. :smallfrown:

[Zenos]

Ok, I think I am gonna go with a 2nd level wizard with lore of death. That "steal soul" thing looks exquisite for taking down those pesky Beastmen characters. And of course there are all the other fancy spells there... I'll be equipping hi with a pair of dispel scrolls.
About the warrior priest, I am pretty sure I will give him heavy armour, and maybe have him use [insert magic weapon availiable to Empire] and a shield. Possibly some other stuff.


If you're talking about LorenzWHFB... they charge for it now.... sadly. :smallfrown:

Too bad, playing WHF online would have been wonderful. I wouldn't need to play against beastmen time and time again and let my missile troops gather dust.

[BloodyAngel]

Well the site DOES work... they just charge for it. Sadly, I am broke, and that makes me sad.

I think they're running a deal where two people can get registered for the price of one.... Maybe there are a few people on here who would go in with you on it Zenos. Sadly, I'm not one of them. I don't even know how much a Euro is in american dollars...

[Zenos]

Well the site DOES work... they just charge for it. Sadly, I am broke, and that makes me sad.

I think they're running a deal where two people can get registered for the price of one.... Maybe there are a few people on here who would go in with you on it Zenos. Sadly, I'm not one of them. I don't even know how much a Euro is in american dollars...

Well, that's what I meant, I am not particularily willing to pay just so I can play an occasional game of WHF, even if it means being stuck fighting Beastmen.

[Zenos]

Ok, I've revised my army list to fit a 900 pts battle:

1 captain (full plate, shield, Sword of Power) 100 pts.
1 Warrior priest of Sigmar (armour of meteoric iron, greathammer).119 pts.
1 wizard of the lore of Death (2d level, 2 dispel scrolls) Spells: Dark Hand of Death and Steal Soul. 150 pts.
14 swordsmen (full command) 109 pts.
10 spearmen (full command, shields) 70 pts.
5 knightly orders (full command, inner circle, War Banner) 180 pts.
10 greatswords (full command) 130 pts.
5 Free companies as detachment to either swordsmen or spearmen

I have a plan, to put the WP and captain in the swordsmen unit, and when it probably engages the enemy's general, if the Beastman general tries a challenge, the WP will have put a nice little armour of contempt on himself, giving him a +1 Armour save and a 4+ ward save, and will answer said challenge whilst the captain is happily thwacking away with his str 6 attacks.

EDIT: "#¤&#¤!!! I've found he is going to be using Marks of Tzeench. That... complicates matters for me. Also he is using his chariot, I am slightly worried about it running rampage through my lines, any good strategies against such one?

[BloodyAngel]

Ugh... Tzeenetch... the cheesiest of the chaos cheese. Luckily for you, beastmen have VERY few options for which of their troops can have marks, and in a 900 point game, he's not going to be able to afford many. If he drags in some Hordes of chaos troops though, you're boned. They can take marks like there's no tomorrow!

The best way to get rid of a chariot is available mostly to empire and dwarves. Cannons. Any strength 7 or higher hit that wounds a chariot blows it into tiny chunks. Sadly, unless that warrior priest can raise your lord's strength to 7... you're going to have trouble pulling it off. The best I can tell you is to try like HELL to get the charge on that thing. If it can't do it's impact hits, you have a good chance. Chariots don't generate much CR. Try to smack into it with some knights. A cruel, but hilarious trick might be to slip a unit of knights "accidentally" into it's charge range, only by an inch or three. Then when it comes at you, flee... and it will end up (hopefully) within charge range of another unit. Or, a better trick that I've seen done. Deploy those free-companies in FRONT of your swordsmen by a few inches. Then, if someone charges you... the company should flee, which I don't believe causes panic... this will hopefully strand the charger right in front of the swordsmen, if they fail their charge. Or try that trick with the chariot. Just make sure you guess your ranges JUST right. :smallamused:

[Zenos]

Ugh... Tzeenetch... the cheesiest of the chaos cheese. Luckily for you, beastmen have VERY few options for which of their troops can have marks, and in a 900 point game, he's not going to be able to afford many. If he drags in some Hordes of chaos troops though, you're boned. They can take marks like there's no tomorrow!

The best way to get rid of a chariot is available mostly to empire and dwarves. Cannons. Any strength 7 or higher hit that wounds a chariot blows it into tiny chunks. Sadly, unless that warrior priest can raise your lord's strength to 7... you're going to have trouble pulling it off. The best I can tell you is to try like HELL to get the charge on that thing. If it can't do it's impact hits, you have a good chance. Chariots don't generate much CR. Try to smack into it with some knights. A cruel, but hilarious trick might be to slip a unit of knights "accidentally" into it's charge range, only by an inch or three. Then when it comes at you, flee... and it will end up (hopefully) within charge range of another unit. Or, a better trick that I've seen done. Deploy those free-companies in FRONT of your swordsmen by a few inches. Then, if someone charges you... the company should flee, which I don't believe causes panic... this will hopefully strand the charger right in front of the swordsmen, if they fail their charge. Or try that trick with the chariot. Just make sure you guess your ranges JUST right. :smallamused:

Okay, got it. Hmm, maybe I should just up it to 1000 points blank (well, atleast it is me instigating the battle). Then I could have a cannon isntead of having to pull risky manuevers, if the other player won't let me have a 1000 points battle, ah well, then I can try to pull off one of those manuevers.

Hmmm, he isn't taking a Tzeench army after all. Praise Sigmar, that was close. He is taking some kind of tooth to be used with Bears Anger from the Lore of beasts, what does it do?

[Doglord]

I have a small slaaneshi chaos army, which I will be adding too soon.

I also like lizardmen and vampire counts.

[Zenos]

I've read my opponents army list (well, he gets to read mine) and he has taken a bray shaman with the lore of beasts, some kind of magic item called goretooth, th the spells bears anger and creeping death. He also has a wargor with the mark of Tzeench. He has two beastherds with two hand weapons, a bestigor herd, A tuskgor chariot and a pair of spawn of chaos.

[Efil]

To correct you, creeping death is from the lore of shadow, and the goretooth makes one of your spells bears anger whatever lore you choose.

[Oeep Snaec]

You're going to have to pummel the hell out of the chariot and those spawns with your cannon, in that order. The beastherds should be taken on by the infantry, and, assuming you kill the chariot and one of the spawns, throw the knights at the other spawn and the greatswords at the bestigors.

[Zenos]

You're going to have to pummel the hell out of the chariot and those spawns with your cannon, in that order. The beastherds should be taken on by the infantry, and, assuming you kill the chariot and one of the spawns, throw the knights at the other spawn and the greatswords at the bestigors.

Ok. By the way, he says he now has a 1002 pts army, should I allow him those extra two points?

[Pilum]

Depends how you're feeling Zenos, for friendly games I'm usually ok with it to a certain degree, on the understanding that it will be quid pro quo, of course!

For what it's worth, this is generally my 1000pts. It's from memory so I won't be writing down values (heck, it might even be my 1500!), but it's yet to let me down in any dramatic fashion, so it's fair to say this is my "core" force.

Captain, Meteoric Iron, Greatsword
lvl 1 Wizard, 2 x DS - purely for defensive magic. No fixed Lore.

20 Halberdiers, shielded w/command, 8 swords, 8 handguns
- personally I'd go the other way round now, main body swords & halberds as the detachment, but that's under a "future projects" list!

16 Spears, shield, command, 8 swords, 8 handguns.
- why only 16? because thats what came in the last edition's Big Box! :smallsmile:

10 Archers upgraded to scouts
- basically to find appropriate terrain, sit in it and make a nuisance of themselves. Sometimes I'll sub the archers in as a detachment instead of one of the handguns above (usually the Halb's one) and stick in a unit of Independent Handgunners here.

5 or 6 knights w/lance & command
5 or 6 "White Wolves" & command
- can't remember exact numbers but I think it's 6 usually...

1 Cannon.
- because there is no problem that cannot be solved with the judicious application of a 20lb shot! :smallbiggrin: Again, this sometimes gets swapped out for a mortar, but generally I'll stick with it.

Painted as Hochlanders, for what its worth.

[Zenos]

What worries me is that those two additional points allows him to get the second spawn, so I don't feel very much like allowing him to have those extra points when he just has to drop a single ungor.

[Pilum]

Ah. I get you now. Tell him that, then.

[BloodyAngel]

Seems pretty standard/magic-killy.

Bears anger makes that shaman disgusting in close combat... but the mention before was right. Creeping death isn't a beast spell. The only way he could have it, would be to take shadow magic (and I don't know if beasts can), then take the staff that makes his first spell into bear's anger. Off the top of my head, I can't recall if Creeping death is the spell that makes a unit cause fear... or the spell that makes a unit take 3d6 S 1 hits with no armor. If it's the later, be very wary of it coming at your knights, greatswords... hell... everyone. If it's the fear one... It's slightly less a concern... but be wary of auto-break due to fear... or the fact that it bumps a fear causer into terror. Empire isn't known for it's amazing leadership...

It seems like your friend has a decent all-around beast-list. You need a cannon. It's one of the empire's biggest perks... and it turns chariots and large monsters from a serious threat, to a pile of assorted goo. The spawn are incredibly random... so be wary of them... Especially since it looks like your opponent has cherry-picked some decent stuff. If the spawns are marked slaanesh, they use an extra die for movement... and can potentially be on you second turn... as they'll have an average movement of 10 or 11. You didn't mention marks... I'm guessing they're standard.

Beasts are tough to crack in low-point games... You have a rough fight on your hands. Optimally, use your greatswords to smack-down the beastigor herd... or if you must take a charge from the chariot... have it be to these guys. They're stubborn, and if you don't flee... chariots do far less damage in the second round of a fight and onwards... plus, their high strength hits will actually have a chance of hurting it. If you can nail the chariot with a cannon in the first turn, this is not an issue... otherwise, aim for those spawn with it!

Now I don't know his exact numbers for those units... but beast herds are pretty cheap... so I'm guessing he has the full CR of +2 for each. I would say, use the spearmen and free-companies to screen your better troops... using the spearmen especially to bait someone. It's a trick I use as the DE all the time. (though I also do it with fast cav.)

March the spearmen up in front of a nasty thing, like the chariot, the spawn, his bestigors... or whatever unit his leaders are in... have one of your nastier units behind them and to the side, like you are hoping to swing around and flank anything that gets stuck in the spearmen. Make SURE you are well into the charge range of the enemy so he really can't avoid you... and hold. Brace for impact... and when he comes a-running at you. Have those suckers flee! If he doesn't catch them... he's out in the open, and it probably vulnerable to a charge from your nasty unit. If he DOES catch them... he's even more screwed... because he has to move his full charge distance... which should strand him way away from his lines... and possibly someplace that your nasty unit can flank-charge. Most people aren't used to spearmen fleeing, ever... so I've seen a lot of people fall for it. The loss of a 70 point unit isn't much compared to taking down a beastigor herd or one of his heroes. just make sure you don't bother trying this trick on the normal herds... they don't have a flank, since they're skirmishers... Only aim for them with this trick if they have a nice, juicy hero in their unit that you want dead. :smallamused:

[Oeep Snaec]

You'll have to be careful as to not make it totally obvious that you are trying to draw him in like that though. if he see's it and adjusts, it could really make a mess of your day.

[Zenos]

He doesn't have any other marks than Tzeench that I know of, since he is already slightly overstretching his points buy. I got the cannon, so hopefully the chariot will be firewood in the first round, if he doesn't screen it with his spawn.
Hopefully I will be able to dispel most of his spells thanks to having five dispel dice and a pair of dispel scrolls.

[Wraith]

A nice convinient thread, this - I've played W:FB before, and I was terrible at it, but am considering taking it up again and would like some advice.

I originally took Skaven and refused to play 'properly', which basically meant that I was constantly smashed apart because I like lots of wonder weapons and buffed-up characters, despite knowing full-well that Skaven live and die by the sheer number of their rank and file units.
What can I say? Sometimes ya just got to have a Screaming Bell and a Warpcannon AND a Doomwheel. I loved those things, regardless of how poorly I performed with them...

But anyways, that's just background; what I would like to know is, which of the two armies I have in mind should I go for?

I like to have a particular theme in my armies, and stick with it. I find that more satisfying than buying an army 'to win' and having no soul. So, here are the options:

Lizardman 'Monster' Army
Normal Lizardmen, but without a Slann or Temple Guard. Instead, I spend the points on a Carnosaur for my Lord to send down one flank, a stegadon down the other and hope a pair of Skink Shamans can muster up enough dispell Dice to keep everyone safe until the monsters start having their fun. This is the favourite so far, because I would love to paint a carnosaur, though I know many people would balk at the idea of Lizardmen without a Slann backing them up and I can always paint the model for my own amusement even if I don't use it.

The second is a Kroxigor-come-Ogre Army.

The basic premise is that I write-up and collect an Ogre army, but use Lizardmen models to represent them. Kroxigors for the Ogres, Carnosaur for the Giant and a skink sat on an elaborate base (enough to pass for a 'large' model) to work as the Butcher. It'd take a lot of work to convert, since there are only 7 Kroxigor models in existence and I can take something like 24 in a 1500pt army, but I've never seen it done and it'd be great fun to display.

What do you guys think? Lizardmen is not negotiable, as you can probably tell, but I'd still like to know what you think of my concepts :smallsmile:

[BloodyAngel]

He doesn't have any other marks than Tzeench that I know of, since he is already slightly overstretching his points buy. I got the cannon, so hopefully the chariot will be firewood in the first round, if he doesn't screen it with his spawn.
Hopefully I will be able to dispel most of his spells thanks to having five dispel dice and a pair of dispel scrolls.

He can try... but on a good bounce... the cannon ball will go through them both. Just remember this. If you fire at the spawn, and accidentally overshoot and hit the chariot... it's legal. Don't intentionally guess long hoping to hit the thing... that borders on cheese... but if he throws a nice juicy spawn in the way... fire at that thing and hope for a good bounce!

[Zenos]

A nice convinient thread, this - I've played W:FB before, and I was terrible at it, but am considering taking it up again and would like some advice.

I originally took Skaven and refused to play 'properly', which basically meant that I was constantly smashed apart because I like lots of wonder weapons and buffed-up characters, despite knowing full-well that Skaven live and die by the sheer number of their rank and file units.
What can I say? Sometimes ya just got to have a Screaming Bell and a Warpcannon AND a Doomwheel. I loved those things, regardless of how poorly I performed with them...

But anyways, that's just background; what I would like to know is, which of the two armies I have in mind should I go for?

I like to have a particular theme in my armies, and stick with it. I find that more satisfying than buying an army 'to win' and having no soul. So, here are the options:

Lizardman 'Monster' Army
Normal Lizardmen, but without a Slann or Temple Guard. Instead, I spend the points on a Carnosaur for my Lord to send down one flank, a stegadon down the other and hope a pair of Skink Shamans can muster up enough dispell Dice to keep everyone safe until the monsters start having their fun. This is the favourite so far, because I would love to paint a carnosaur, though I know many people would balk at the idea of Lizardmen without a Slann backing them up and I can always paint the model for my own amusement even if I don't use it.

The second is a Kroxigor-come-Ogre Army.

The basic premise is that I write-up and collect an Ogre army, but use Lizardmen models to represent them. Kroxigors for the Ogres, Carnosaur for the Giant and a skink sat on an elaborate base (enough to pass for a 'large' model) to work as the Butcher. It'd take a lot of work to convert, since there are only 7 Kroxigor models in existence and I can take something like 24 in a 1500pt army, but I've never seen it done and it'd be great fun to display.

What do you guys think? Lizardmen is not negotiable, as you can probably tell, but I'd still like to know what you think of my concepts :smallsmile:

The Kroxigors as ogres army does sound interesting, especially since it seems you prefer few and cool units, whilst the other army seems pretty ordinary, with a fair share of tough infantry.

[BloodyAngel]

A nice convinient thread, this - I've played W:FB before, and I was terrible at it, but am considering taking it up again and would like some advice.

I originally took Skaven and refused to play 'properly', which basically meant that I was constantly smashed apart because I like lots of wonder weapons and buffed-up characters, despite knowing full-well that Skaven live and die by the sheer number of their rank and file units.
What can I say? Sometimes ya just got to have a Screaming Bell and a Warpcannon AND a Doomwheel. I loved those things, regardless of how poorly I performed with them...

But anyways, that's just background; what I would like to know is, which of the two armies I have in mind should I go for?

I like to have a particular theme in my armies, and stick with it. I find that more satisfying than buying an army 'to win' and having no soul. So, here are the options:

Lizardman 'Monster' Army
Normal Lizardmen, but without a Slann or Temple Guard. Instead, I spend the points on a Carnosaur for my Lord to send down one flank, a stegadon down the other and hope a pair of Skink Shamans can muster up enough dispell Dice to keep everyone safe until the monsters start having their fun. This is the favourite so far, because I would love to paint a carnosaur, though I know many people would balk at the idea of Lizardmen without a Slann backing them up and I can always paint the model for my own amusement even if I don't use it.

The second is a Kroxigor-come-Ogre Army.

The basic premise is that I write-up and collect an Ogre army, but use Lizardmen models to represent them. Kroxigors for the Ogres, Carnosaur for the Giant and a skink sat on an elaborate base (enough to pass for a 'large' model) to work as the Butcher. It'd take a lot of work to convert, since there are only 7 Kroxigor models in existence and I can take something like 24 in a 1500pt army, but I've never seen it done and it'd be great fun to display.

What do you guys think? Lizardmen is not negotiable, as you can probably tell, but I'd still like to know what you think of my concepts :smallsmile:

Both sound like a lot of fun... and I don't know what you've heard... but lizardmen are a really nasty force when used right. My bf has a bunch of them... and he also doesn't have a slann. He DOES have a carnosaur, and I have to say... that is an awesome model. I would suggest your first choice. What's more... it's less expensive, requires a lot less conversions, and might actually win!

The lizardmen are fun... The fluff for the army I play against, is that the entire army is run by a pair of skink priests. (A less optimal choice, I have never seen!) They stole a few magic items, and a clutch of eggs, and started their own spawning pits... where they breed saurus that they educate... differently. Specifically, the saurus follow them as slavishly as they normally follow the slann... and thing that the two little bastards speak to the gods. (They are priests... so technically i guess they do) The entire force consists of two large blocks of saurus that the skinks hide behind, waves of skink skirmishers running around with javelins, a stegadon, salamanders (one of the nastiest troops in the game), and some kroxigor. It's performed admirably well the few times it's been played. His only problem with it, is that he can't use his carnosaur model in the army... since the saurus on it's back would then become the general. (highest leadership and all that.)

[TheThan]

I was thinking of buying the female man eater model to use for my bruiser (or even a tyrant). I was going to try and chase my opponent’s heroes around with her. All the time saying “she’s comin’ for ya!”

Intimidation factor for the win. :smalltongue:

[Zenos]

I was thinking of buying the female man eater model to use for my bruiser (or even a tyrant). I was going to try and chase my opponent’s heroes around with her. All the time saying “she’s comin’ for ya!”

Intimidation factor for the win. :smalltongue:

This made me LOL:smallsmile: .

[BloodyAngel]

We think alike Than. :smallamused:

Have you seen that model? She's scary! All the normal ogres have greasy fu-manchu mustaches.... but the one ogre woman sports a nice full beard! She's like the most scary department store santa of all time!:smalleek:

[Scroofy]

A nice convinient thread, this - I've played W:FB before, and I was terrible at it, but am considering taking it up again and would like some advice.

I originally took Skaven and refused to play 'properly', which basically meant that I was constantly smashed apart because I like lots of wonder weapons and buffed-up characters, despite knowing full-well that Skaven live and die by the sheer number of their rank and file units.
What can I say? Sometimes ya just got to have a Screaming Bell and a Warpcannon AND a Doomwheel. I loved those things, regardless of how poorly I performed with them...

But anyways, that's just background; what I would like to know is, which of the two armies I have in mind should I go for?

I like to have a particular theme in my armies, and stick with it. I find that more satisfying than buying an army 'to win' and having no soul. So, here are the options:

Lizardman 'Monster' Army
Normal Lizardmen, but without a Slann or Temple Guard. Instead, I spend the points on a Carnosaur for my Lord to send down one flank, a stegadon down the other and hope a pair of Skink Shamans can muster up enough dispell Dice to keep everyone safe until the monsters start having their fun. This is the favourite so far, because I would love to paint a carnosaur, though I know many people would balk at the idea of Lizardmen without a Slann backing them up and I can always paint the model for my own amusement even if I don't use it.

The second is a Kroxigor-come-Ogre Army.

The basic premise is that I write-up and collect an Ogre army, but use Lizardmen models to represent them. Kroxigors for the Ogres, Carnosaur for the Giant and a skink sat on an elaborate base (enough to pass for a 'large' model) to work as the Butcher. It'd take a lot of work to convert, since there are only 7 Kroxigor models in existence and I can take something like 24 in a 1500pt army, but I've never seen it done and it'd be great fun to display.

What do you guys think? Lizardmen is not negotiable, as you can probably tell, but I'd still like to know what you think of my concepts :smallsmile:

If I were you I would go for the first option and run it as a lizarmen army. I have a very similar setup as you do but I only have one lvl 2 Skink priest with a diadem when I play. I usually find that enough to deal with the nastier spells that get tossed my way. I also use the carny and steg in my army and they are so much fun, just make sure you protect them as best you can from shooting until and opportune time presents itself.

Like angel said, LM can be a very formidable army even w/o the slann. Saurus warriors with a sacred spawning of Quetzl can be a great anvil unit and then you can use Kroxigors and your hammer. On top of that get some salamanders to really mess with lower toughness units like elves and hordes.

Cheers!

[BloodyAngel]

As a player of elves... I can attest first hand to the horrific pain dealt by salamanders.... they just plain hurt.

In one large game, I was teamed up with my boy's lizard army against high elves and empire... and the sally's had a fair hand in killing Emporer Franz on his stupid dragon. They were assisted somewhat by my ogre leadbelchers... and it took my two bolt throwers to drop the dragon... but the sallys got 2 wounds on Franz... it was pretty impressive.

[TheThan]

We think alike Than. :smallamused:

Have you seen that model? She's scary! All the normal ogres have greasy fu-manchu mustaches.... but the one ogre woman sports a nice full beard! She's like the most scary department store santa of all time!:smalleek:


That model is made of a creepy sort of win. It’s both awesome and disturbing at the same time. Which is why it’s the prime candidate for a bruiser or a tyrant.

[Jakezor]

That model is made of a creepy sort of win. It’s both awesome and disturbing at the same time. Which is why it’s the prime candidate for a bruiser or a tyrant.

Agreed. We've decided that that particular ogre model is the "Girlfriend" of our local VC's Blood Dragon Lord (A beardy woman for a beardy character! Seriously I hate that thing)

Speaking of which, I've found an startlingly fun tactic for empire: Stick a lvl 2 wizard with the Gem Of Stat Swapping in a juicy looking unit, get charged, accept the challenge. Win. Works best in 2k+ games against VC/Chaos/Ogres/Anything with a big nasty CC HQ.

It only works once, but it is worth it.

In other news, my Sotek army is progressing at about the speed I figured it would! I currently have *one* painted Saurus model and a painted Slann! Huzzah... They both still need basing though.

[Zenos]

Agreed. We've decided that that particular ogre model is the "Girlfriend" of our local VC's Blood Dragon Lord (A beardy woman for a beardy character! Seriously I hate that thing)

Speaking of which, I've found an startlingly fun tactic for empire: Stick a lvl 2 wizard with the Gem Of Stat Swapping in a juicy looking unit, get charged, accept the challenge. Win. Works best in 2k+ games against VC/Chaos/Ogres/Anything with a big nasty CC HQ.

It only works once, but it is worth it.

In other news, my Sotek army is progressing at about the speed I figured it would! I currently have *one* painted Saurus model and a painted Slann! Huzzah... They both still need basing though.

Ain't that Van Horstman's Mirror?

[BloodyAngel]

The 2008 Empire slogan machine, in all it's glory!

Empire: We suck... so you lose.

Empire: At least we're not goblins!

Empire: Spreading suck since 1964.

Empire: We are what you eat.

Empire: Anything you can do we can do... worse.

Empire: At least we have guns!

Empire: Madness? This... is... Reikland!

Empire: Now with 40% more gunlines.

Empire: Heil Sigmar!

Empire: We're like the dwarves that you can beat.

[Blayze]

Ain't that Van Horstman's Mirror?

I seem to recall popping that in single combat against a Bloodthirster once. "Once" being the key word in that sentence.

[Oeep Snaec]

We think alike Than. :smallamused:

Have you seen that model? She's scary! All the normal ogres have greasy fu-manchu mustaches.... but the one ogre woman sports a nice full beard! She's like the most scary department store santa of all time!:smalleek:

I retch at the thought of an ogre woman, even more so with a beard!:smallsigh:

And hey now! The empire can waste any army if played properly. You just need the right units for the job, along with proper tactics.:smallbiggrin:

[BloodyAngel]

Well, any army can win if played properly. That's the whole point.

That being said... I have nothing against Empire as a whole. What I'm not too fond of are gunlines, steam tanks, and the absurd mechanical horse. Especially the last two. I'm also not particularly fond of the dwarven gyrocopter on similar grounds. This isn't steampunk, damn it! :smallmad:

But a well-played empire army that doesn't swim in cheese is a cool thing. Sadly, amongst the people I've played... the gunlines of doom are far more common.

[Oeep Snaec]

I've been growing out of the gunline, as I can have more fun rolling up an entire dwarf army from one flank to the other with a single unit of sixth edition Inner Circle Knights of the White Wolf. Then the b*stard used a gunline on me in a larger battle, wiped the unit in like three turns and then stood there. But revenge will be mine!!!!

Sorry.

[Elfanatic]

Storm "Wall of Text" approaching...
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Entering "Spoiler" defense program...
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@ Wraith
The Lizardmen "Monster" army sounds good to me. Especially since I love dinosaurs. If you are worried about the enemy's magic phase, try taking the Blessed Spawning of Tepok for one of your characters/units. This adds an extra dispel dice for each Tepok Spawning. Other ideas are the Über-dispel scroll called the Cube of Darkness (stop spell, end all Remains in Play, 4+ to stop the magic phase), or the Diadem of Power (saves 0-2 dice for next magic phase). That last item is almost a must, since it makes sure that all your power/dispel dice are used.

For the Oldblood, might I suggest the Blade of Revered Tzunki. Five attacks at +1 St (for an effective St 6) and no armour saves will kill al but the most powerfull of units, and those units are mostly Large Targets. Which means that your Carnosaur gets to use his Ultimate Predator rule to full effect. :smallbiggrin:

@ BloodyAngel
If your opponent finds fielding the Carnosaur model more important than using the Carnosaur rules, he/she could proxy him as a Stegadon. Explaining where the Giant Bow and the Skink crewmen are might be difficult/humorous/nauseating, but since Skink Priests can take a Stegadon for a mount, he/she could have a nice centerpiece for his lizard Dr. Evil.
MUHAHAHAHA!

Van Horstmann's Speculum
I like to use it in a different but colourfull manner.

Enter Wilhelm von Tarnus: lvl 4 wizard (210 pt), Pegasus (50 pt), with Sword of Striking (+1 to hit, 15 pt), Armour of Tarnus (6+ Ar, 5+ W, 35 pt) and of course, Van Horstmann's Speculum (swap WS, St, T, I and At in a challenge, 35 pt). Total: 345 points.
The Sword helps guarantee hits, the Armour stops the occasionol blow, and the Pegasus is there to get him around. And the Speculum is there to annoy any characters which get in my way.
He wil either have the Lore of Fire (Flaming Sword: 2+ to Hit, +1 At, +3 St), Metal (Law of Gold: negates a magic item) or Light (Healing Energy: regain a wound).

I like to use him in my horde armies. While not a good general, he helps with everything else. And the morale duty can be picked by Warrior Priests with the Silver Horn and Captains with the Rod of Command.

Opponent got too much magic offense/defense for Tarnus to make difference? He charges with another unit to up the body-count.

Opponent got too much missile troops? Blast away.

Opponent got too much combat potential ánd magic defense? Charge the Über-unit in the flank (best with Flaming Sword) and call your opponent a cowardly bedwetting chicken.

Opponent got a Flying Über-character of Doom (FUD)? Charge, challenge and enjoy the show...


"New" magic items
When I explored a website with a ton of (old) GW rules, I came across the booty from the Albion campaign.

Treasures of the Old Ones (http://redelf.h1.ru/w6/albion/a_treasures.html)

Now, while the status of these magic items in 7th edition is semi-official at best, I am drooling at the possibility of using them. Imagine a Dark Elf with a Powerfist...:smalltongue:

What do you think?

[BloodyAngel]

The gauntlet of power isn't really legal anymore... but it's fun in friendly games. Our Storm of Chaos items are still legal... because let's face it... the dark elves really needed them. We had NO bound offensive spells for Khaine's sake. Even the high elves had one of those! Lame.

Also... you know you can't use any other weapon BUT the sword of flame, when you're using that spell, right? Doesn't that make the points spent on the magic sword.... kind of a waste?

[Elfanatic]

Also... you know you can't use any other weapon BUT the sword of flame, when you're using that spell, right? Doesn't that make the points spent on the magic sword.... kind of a waste?

True, but like I said (wrote, typed, whatever), I don't always take the Lore of Fire. And even when I do, there is still a chance I don't get that particulair spell, or fail in casting it. The Sword of Striking is there as Plan B, especially in challenges where 9 times out of 10 I will have a higher WS thanks to the Speculum. That, plus the Sword of Striking means I am almost guaranteed to hit my opponent.

Besides, in the 7th ed Empire army book most of the Common magic items have been reduced in cost. Sword of Striking, Sword of Battle and Sword of Battle are now 15 pt instead of 30, 25 pt and 20 pt (in that order). The cost of Biting Blade is halved and is now 5 pt. The same goes for Power Stone (25/20) and Staff of Sorcery (50/35). Echanted Shield has increased tough.

Roughly the same has happened in the Orc & Goblins book, but not the High Elfs. They probably thought that the Asur already have too much magic as it is.

To cut a long story short, it has been made cheaper and makes sure that I am not completly shafted if Flaming Sword doesn't get through.

[thedavo]

i didn't think wizards could wear magic armour, unless specifically stated in their rules (see chaos armour and variants of)?

[Kraggi]

Armour of Tarnus is one of those special ones wizards can wear.

[Oeep Snaec]

The armor of tarnus has saved many a wizard in my army. Note that it is does no good against a bloody dwarf cannon.

[Ganurath]

I favor Dwarves, but I've made army list ideas of anything I can get a hold of. *suppresses urge to post any of the lists, for fear of theft and criticism*

[Elfanatic]

I favor Dwarves, but I've made army list ideas of anything I can get a hold of. *suppresses urge to post any of the lists, for fear of theft and criticism*

That's okay. I've allready hired the Halfling master-spy, James Blandmuffin, to make copies from your armylist. And I've got to say...your armies need more Slayers. I have not read them yet, but all Dwarven armies need more Slayers.

:smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

That's okay. I've allready hired the Halfling master-spy, James Blandmuffin, to make copies from your armylist. And I've got to say...your armies need more Slayers. I have not read them yet, but all Dwarven armies need more Slayers.

:smalltongue:I needed all the Special slots for siege weapons. Here's the lists: 2 Beastmen, 2 Wood Elves, 2 Dogs of War, and 1 DwarvesUnder 2000 Lists
Pusfang's War Herd 2000
Wargor A, Two Hand Weapons, Fur of Sharrgu, Horn of the Great Hunt, Heavy Armor, and Mark of Nurgle
Wargor B, Heavy Armor, Slaughterer's Blade, Nurgle
Bray Shaman, Braystaff, Chaos Armor, The Goretooth, L2 Beast
Bestigors 15, Full Command, Vitriolic Totem, Wargor A
Bestigors 15, Full Command, Wargor B
Bestigors 15, Full Command, Mark of Chaos Undivided, Bray Shaman
Warhounds 10
Warhounds 10
Warhounds 10
Beast Herd 5/8, Full Command, Two Hand Weapons
Beast Herd 5/5, Full Command, Two Hand Weapons
Beast Herd 5/5, Full Command, Two Hand Weapons
Minotaurs 3, Mark of Nurgle
Minotaurs 3, Mark of Nurgle
Minotaurs 3, Mark of Nurgle

Corbasi's Coalition 1997
Mercenary Captain, Heavy Armor, Shield, Warhorse, Barding, Lance
Paymaster, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Protection, Brace of Pistols, Heavy Armor
Wizard, L2 Heavens, Warhorse, 2 Dispel Scrolls
Volands Venators 8
Heavy Cavalry 7, Full Command, Barding, Mercenary Captain
Vespero's Vendetta 12
Duellists 11, Pistols, Full Command, Paymaster
Al Muktar's Desert Dogs 8
Light Cavalry 8, Spears, Full Command
Light Cavalry 5, Bows, Champion, Wizard
Light Cavalry 6, Bows, Champion
Birdmen of Catrazza 10

Grundsson's Vanguard 1993
Thane, Pistol, Light Armor, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance
Runesmith A, Gromril Armor, Shield, Master Rune of Balance, Rune of Spellbreaking
Runesmith B, Gromril Armor, Shield, Master Rune of Spellbinding, Rune of Spellbreaking
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Thane
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Runesmith A
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Runesmith B
Warriors 24, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields
Miners 16, Full Command
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Gyrocopter

Guardians of Autumn West 1997
Wood Elf Noble, Scout, Starfire Arrows, Light Armor, Shield
Wood Elf Noble, Alter, Bow of Loren, Briarsheath, shield
Spellsinger, L2 Loren, Divination Orb
Glade Guard 10
Glade Guard 10
Glade Guard 10
Scouts 5
Scouts 5
Scouts 5
Glade Riders 10, Full Command
Eternal Guard 16, Full Command
Eternal Guard 16, Full Command
Waywatchers 10

2000 Lists
Besieger's Blockade 1999
Mercenary General, Sword of Battle, Shield, Heavy Armor
Paymaster, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Protection, Heavy Armor
Wizard, L2 Light, Dispel Scroll
Pirazzo's Lost Legion 5/15
Ricco's Republican Guard 20
Pikemen 19, Mercenary General
Pikemen 19, Paymaster
Marksmen of Miragliano 10
Braganza's Besiegers 10
Crossbowmen 9, Standard Bearer, Wizard
Bronzino's Galloper Guns 2

Drycha's Ire 1999
Drycha
Branchwraith, L1 Loren
Branchwraith, Cluster of Radients
Branchwraith, Cluster of Radients
Dryads 9, Branch Nymph
Dryads 9, Branch Nymph
Dryads 9, Branch Nymph
Dryads 9, Branch Nymph
Dryads 8, Branch Nymph
Dryads 8, Branch Nymph
Dryads 8, Branch Nymph
Treeman
Treeman

Khazrak's Marauders 2000
Khazrak the One-Eye
Wargor, Heavy Armor, The Beast Banner, Mark of Chaos Undivided
Bray-Shaman, Braystaff, L2 Beast, Chaos Armor, The Goretooth, Mark of Chaos Undivided
Beast Herd 6/12, Two Hand Weapons, Foe-Render, Musician, Khazrak, Wargor
Beast Herd 5/15, Shields for all, Full Command
Beast Herd 5/15, Shields for all, Full Command
Bestigor Herd 19, Full Command, War Banner, Bray-Shaman
Bestigor Herd 20, Full Command, Mark of Chaos Undivided
Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Chariot
Warhounds of Chaos 10
Warhounds of Chaos 10

[Kraggi]

I did a dwarf army just like that once.

My family refused to play against me for a month.

[Ganurath]

I did a dwarf army just like that once.

My family refused to play against me for a month.Ah, so you tilted the formation so the map edges guarded the flanks as well? Makes it much easier for the Gyrocopter to deal with Scouts and skirmishers, with the added benefit of giving more length for the wide formation (regiment, bolter, bolter, regiment, bolter, etc) Be sure to hold the bolt throwers back some so the regiments intercept those funny-angled charges!

[Elfanatic]

Do you play with 6th edition with your friends? Many of your units seem to be 4 models wide, but in 7th edition you need to have 5 in order to apply for a rank bonus.

[Ganurath]

Do you play with 6th edition with your friends? Many of your units seem to be 4 models wide, but in 7th edition you need to have 5 in order to apply for a rank bonus.The Beastmen armies are 6th, but the rest are up to date. To clarify: I did not know it needed to be five wide with the new edition (haven't played recently), but the point is moot in most cases since most are at least five wide anyhow (six for the dwarves) or skirmishers.

[Oeep Snaec]

Would the five wide apply to cavalry as well? Cause if it does, that makes it a pain for my army, or at least my eight strong unit of knights. I prefer playing 6th ed. Empire because it seems like they have too many technologies now. And I don't want to have to use up greatswords or cannon spots just to fit a unit of Inner Circle knights.

Hooray! First post of page 4!

[Forthork]

Grundsson's Vanguard 1993
Thane, Pistol, Light Armor, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance
Runesmith A, Gromril Armor, Shield, Master Rune of Balance, Rune of Spellbreaking
Runesmith B, Gromril Armor, Shield, Master Rune of Spellbinding, Rune of Spellbreaking
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Thane
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Runesmith A
Warriors 23, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields, Runesmith B
Warriors 24, Full Command, Heavy Armor, Shields
Miners 16, Full Command
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Gyrocopter


That list is actually 1962 points in the new rules. I thought it would be way off, they lowered points cost for most things, although I think many units increased in points but include armor. I would play a similar list, but I don't think anyone at my club would allow me more than four bolt throwers.

I have concluded that Dwarfs are pretty good :smalltongue:. While doing a 1v1v1 (we do odd battles) with High Elves and Dark Elves, they had to join together to fight me, and although we didn't finish, I may still have won. I second the Slayer notion: if they have little shooting, mass Slayers. In one turn I was charged by a Giant, a unit of Black Orcs, and a Snotling Pump Wagon. By the next turn they had broke the Orcs, slayed the Goblins, and my Lord and his bodyguard charged and destroyed the Wagon.

[Ganurath]

That list is actually 1962 points in the new rules. I thought it would be way off, they lowered points cost for most things, although I think many units increased in points but include armor. I would play a similar list, but I don't think anyone at my club would allow me more than four bolt throwers.Huzzah! More Miners means rank bonuses when attacking the enemy rear with midgets in candle hats.

[Kraggi]

Ja, five wide does apply to the cavalry. That was a change that irked me, but ah well. Change is change is change.

[Oeep Snaec]

Blast. Oh well, my cousin and I generally play by 6th ed. rules anyway.

[Silroc]

Not sure how I missed this thread for so long.

I can field a force of High Elves about 22,000 points strong, all fully painted. I've never actually managed to get them all out on a table in a real game, only for photo ops, but someday I hope to. Largest I've played was at Gen-Con, I pitted 15,000 of my noble Elves against a mixed force of chaos, dark elves, and vampire counts. Fun times.

Anyhue, I haven't played a game since I moved south to Florida. Anyone know any good spots for WFB near the Tampa area? Seems the hobby stores around here are all about 40k. :(

[TheThan]

I retch at the thought of an ogre woman, even more so with a beard!:smallsigh:

And hey now! The empire can waste any army if played properly. You just need the right units for the job, along with proper tactics.:smallbiggrin:

Feast your Eyes upon her glorious majesty (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=304265&orignav=304219&ParentID=254700&GameNav=13)

[Elfanatic]

Feast your Eyes upon her glorious majesty (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=304265&orignav=304219&ParentID=254700&GameNav=13)

My eyes, my poor useless eyes!

[Oeep Snaec]

Feast your Eyes upon her glorious majesty (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=304265&orignav=304219&ParentID=254700&GameNav=13)

Hold me mommy! The monsters are real!

Actually, excuse me while I puke.

Hey Silroc, could you post a pic of you entire force? It sounds awesome.

[Ganurath]

Not sure how I missed this thread for so long.

I can field a force of High Elves about 22,000 points strong, all fully painted. I've never actually managed to get them all out on a table in a real game, only for photo ops, but someday I hope to. Largest I've played was at Gen-Con, I pitted 15,000 of my noble Elves against a mixed force of chaos, dark elves, and vampire counts. Fun times.

Anyhue, I haven't played a game since I moved south to Florida. Anyone know any good spots for WFB near the Tampa area? Seems the hobby stores around here are all about 40k. :(A 22K list?

...

*grabs a book*

6E or 7E?

[Kraggi]

7E elves would be easier to fill points with, probably. They're kinda GIGANTIC points wise. Which brings me to this battle I'm doing with my family. It's about 4,000 points and loosely based on the battle of five armies. (FIVE armies? One..two..three..four...five! Five armies!) My dad and I are taking men elves and dwarves, with some eagles mixed in for good measure. My younger brother is taking four thousand points of orcs. We started it off yesterday, as we're lazy people who can't finish a game in one day due to time constraints. We just kinda left it set up. My younger brother, of course, set up very poorly and is really playing into exactly what we want him to. He has a HUGE number of orcs, we're just shocked, and a unit of 30 black orcs with Grimgor in it. We double checked the points because it looked insane that he could have that many people with that many heroes. We have a relativly tiny army, about 150 dwarven and elven infantry with 20 empire inner circle knights and 10 dragon princes. We have the dragon princes behind his lines right now, because he had a unit of worf riders on one flank that we killed in one turn. We figure if we can get Grimgor on the rear and not let Grimgor get back there we'll be alright, and my brother is just playing the ignorant orc to a T. Updates coming as they happen.

[Zenos]

7E elves would be easier to fill points with, probably. They're kinda GIGANTIC points wise. Which brings me to this battle I'm doing with my family. It's about 4,000 points and loosely based on the battle of five armies. (FIVE armies? One..two..three..four...five! Five armies!) My dad and I are taking men elves and dwarves, with some eagles mixed in for good measure. My younger brother is taking four thousand points of orcs. We started it off yesterday, as we're lazy people who can't finish a game in one day due to time constraints. We just kinda left it set up. My younger brother, of course, set up very poorly and is really playing into exactly what we want him to. He has a HUGE number of orcs, we're just shocked, and a unit of 30 black orcs with Grimgor in it. We double checked the points because it looked insane that he could have that many people with that many heroes. We have a relativly tiny army, about 150 dwarven and elven infantry with 20 empire inner circle knights and 10 dragon princes. We have the dragon princes behind his lines right now, because he had a unit of worf riders on one flank that we killed in one turn. We figure if we can get Grimgor on the rear and not let Grimgor get back there we'll be alright, and my brother is just playing the ignorant orc to a T. Updates coming as they happen.

How many other Empire are there?

[Silroc]

It was 6th edition, actually. I haven't played a game since 7th came out, so I'm not sure what effect that may have had.

And yeah, I'll get a pic up as soon as I get back to my other PC.

[Oeep Snaec]

I am going to try to put together some concept art for a massively massive force of something or other. Not sure what, but it should be cool. If I get around to doin it

[Kraggi]

That is it for empire. Didn't really feel like getting many weak manlings. Not totally in canon, but tis alright I suppose. Continuation today, younger brother got some units slaughtered, inner circle knights got tied up in bad position but are keeping about half of his units occupied. Eagles making it hard for everything to move. All in all, rather effective so far. Only problem is Grimgor. There is no effective way to deal with him aside from avoiding him, and he is presently in front of the pheonix gaurd, which could prove bad. Younger brother got pissy about units lost so we called it off early, should be getting back to it tomorrow. Tomorrow will be a bloody day, as the main juicy melee will begin.

[BloodyAngel]

22k? Cripes! I have about 10k... but it's split amongst dark elves, lizardmen, ogres, chaos and vampire counts... with a small, small smattering of goblins.

As a side note... I'm not surprised about the whole "it took both elven armies to take on the dwarves". High elves and dark elves have been underpowered for a long, long time. (the high elves recently got a HUGE bump with their new edition... but sadly one that only makes them MORE vulnerable to dwarves). Dwarves are, IMO... THE most overpowered, irritating, "no thinking required" army around. GW has favored them for ages, and they are especially good at trouncing the elven armies. They rarely have to worry about two of the most difficult and complicated parts of the turn... magic and movement. Sorry for the rant... just my opinion. And if you ever want to see the most boring battle of all time... pit one dwarven army against another. Then you will see the flaw inherant in the list. The all-shooty dwarf army will likely win... OR both armies will accomplish next to nothing. An epic battle, it's not. :smallsigh:

[thedavo]

high elves?

underpowered?
you're joking right...

saying that, the only way to win with them is to max out on magic and shooting, and then noone will play you, ever.

if you take a "fair, balanced army", chances are you'll get the snot kicked out of you.

[werewolfjay]

i play the tombkings up to 2000 points and i was the only one who frequently visited GW and i am a skilled veteran with loads of advice

[BloodyAngel]

high elves?

underpowered?
you're joking right...

saying that, the only way to win with them is to max out on magic and shooting, and then noone will play you, ever.

if you take a "fair, balanced army", chances are you'll get the snot kicked out of you.

I said that the high elves WERE underpowered. I then added that they got a HUGE bump... except against dwarves.... who are, as you said... maxed out on shooting, more often than not. I wasn't saying that the new high elves are underpowered. Quite the opposite, in fact. They are nearly impossible to beat for some armies, and staggeringly easy to beat for others... You have to tailor your entire list to beating high elves to have a chance... which makes the game a whole lot less fun for you... AND the high elf player. I think they really dropped the ball with the new edition of high elves. If the rest of the army updates go this way... the game will play a lot quicker. You'll be able to simply look at your opponent and say. "Oh... you're playing high elves? I'm beasts of chaos. You win by a massacre. Good game." Using this method, we'll be able to get in thousands of games a day... by... not actually having to play them.

[Zenos]

high elves?

underpowered?
you're joking right...

saying that, the only way to win with them is to max out on magic and shooting, and then noone will play you, ever.

if you take a "fair, balanced army", chances are you'll get the snot kicked out of you.

Yeah, that rule about them striking first, even the militia... And as far as I know some of the units were made cheaper? I think I would want to have six-to-one superiority in numbers over the elves then to even fight them. Altho I do remember some savage orcs who ran all over a unit of White Lions in a WD battle report, so they can be defeated.

[thedavo]

mainly because 3 strength 4 attacks on charge each = death

i love my greenskins, my army is around the 10k mark.
hardly any of its painted, ah well.

my other greenskins have been getting the most use recently, although that's for another thread...

[TheThan]

That’s pretty much been my experience with the Dwarves. Even though you should have seen the LGSO (local gaming store owner) trounce an army of dwarves with his orks, that was pretty awesome. His giant ate (literally) an artillery master dude dude, a slayer and half a unit of dwarf warriors (least I think that’s what they were). It was pretty hilarious.

Anyway The LGSO offered to get me something for my ogres for my birthday, so I’m probably going to get the Tyrant and use him as a bruiser. Then I’ll have a HQ instead of having to proxy one from a bull or something. Once I get some cash I’ll get another battalion of ogres and have at least 2000 points to mess with, that should set me up for a while. Naturally there’s always something on the wishlist.

[thedavo]

i quite enjoy playing against the stunties, as long as it isn't a gunline army.

[TheThan]

He had two small gunlines, but a very large tray of black orks, some ork boyz and a few goblins smashed them.

Its just funny that every time that giant did something it ended up picking a guy up and eating him.

[Oeep Snaec]

Running over dwarves with cav. is a blast, especially when his elite units get broken in the first turn of combat. The is to not get the horsies slaughtered by gunfire on their way across the table.

[BloodyAngel]

The ogre batalion box is good... quite good. Especially if you take all those spare gnoblar models meant to go on the ogre bases, and stick them on their own little infantry bases. I think I managedto get roughly 50 gnobs out of that box.

The one down-side you may wish to consider. The box only gives the bits for 4 ironguts... and about 12 bulls. Most ogre players preffer more ironguts over more bulls... and if you are one of these players... you're going to need to get a box of 'guts, which is fabulously overpriced considering you only get about 4 plastic models in it. :smallsigh:

Also... pricy though they be... get maneaters! Or proxy some bulls as maneaters, but their models are great, hilarious and a lot of fun to paint! Ogre maneaters with braces of handguns are amazing. Maneaters with great weapons can smash chariots. And they're stubborn! I personally think any ogre army over 1K should have a few. :smallbiggrin:

[TheThan]

I played my first real game of warhammer today with some ogres (mine are still in pieces so I borrowed the LGSO’s (local gaming store owner) smallish ogre force.

I got thoroughly pounded by the empire, but since it was my first game I sort of expected as much. The good thing is that I learned stuff, which is what this battle was about, so I count it as a good game.

The guy I played against was great, he helped me with the rules and with figuring out how each unit types I had work. I still have to figure out tactics and decide on a play style, but that just takes practice.

I made a few tactical mistakes and got chewed up by Calvary and artillery. But the big disappointment is that I failed my initial charge with my ogres. I mean I needed 2s to hit the guys and I rolled double 1s, it was pretty lame, but oh well bad rolls are part of every tabletop game.

Additionally the LGSO is getting me an ogre tyrant for my birthday (last weekend), which is great, so I’ll have a HQ. I’ll use him as a bruiser unit I get enough to field him as a tyrant (probably get that either this weekend or next week, depending on how quickly he can get it in). I also picked up a few movement trays so I can put my gnoblars on ‘em, and probably my ogres too since it’ll be easier to maneuver them.

The idea of mounting the spare gnoblars on their own base is really awesome. I think I’m going to do that too. the battalion box is really a steal, I added it up and it comes out to 150 or so bucks, and when you get it for 90, that’s one of the few deals I’ve seen GW have.

So far my wish list goes as follows:

1 battalion box (4 led belchers, 4 ironguts, 6 bulls (prolly make ‘em iron guts) and a bunch of gnoblars
2 maneaters (what happened to the normal ones on their site? they only have the direct exclusives)
1 butcher
1 hunter (because they’re cool)

That’s about 200 bucks, off their site, that doesn’t seem bad. Anyway I’m going to compose an army list of what I have, so you guys can critique it.

[BloodyAngel]

I would advise against the hunter personally. I have one. It is a very cool-looking model and in theory... a good unit. In practice however, he is too expensive, his shooting often falls short of useful, and he isn't as credible a close-combat threat as he should be. Also, a minor peeve... he's on a larger base than every other ogre for some reason... so in close combat... more enemy models can gang up on him. Proxy him in a battle or two before you sink the cash to buy him... Then, if you still like him, more power to you!

Ogres are a rough army to learn... as they're hard to use. In most games, especially games of 1000 points or less, they have so few troops that it's easy to be overwhelmed. A few tricks to remember.

1: Ogres need to be at least 6" away from what they charge to get their impact hits. For an army that relies so heavily on kills rather than ranks to win... this can make a huge difference. This means an ogre player must be pretty good at judging distances.

2: Leadbelchers are either the best thing in your force, or a complete joke, depending on how you roll. I've had them drop Karl Franz on his dragon in a game... and I've had two of them midfire and blow up the whole unit. They make good anti-cavalry. Have them waltz up to about... say... 10" or 12" from a cavalry unit, and wait. If they charge you... stand and shoot, and hope for a nasty roll on the artillery dice. If they don't charge you, and they're far enough away to get in your impact hits on a charge... charge them! Leadbelchers hit as hard as any ogres, and people seem to think that no one charges with them until they've shot first. But 3 S 4 Armor piercing attacks and a S 4 impact hit per Leadbelcher beats their unreliable cannon fire any day. If they blunder too close to get the impact hits... THEN shoot them.

3: Gnoblar Trappers are something every ogre army needs. (In fact... the only reason I can think to take a hunter, is so you can get two units of them) They have one job, and that job is marchblocking. Slow up the enemy advance, so you can get your ogres into position to charge... Try to have them waltz right in front of heavy cavalry or other fast, hard hitting units... so they have no choice but to charge your trappers. Then flee. They'll be caught and killed... but if you prepared right, the enemy's full charge move puts them way out in the open right in front of one of your nasty units... like Ironguts. I'll toss a 48 point unit of gnoblars in order to flank charge a unit of Chaos knights or Inner Circle knights any day.

4: Ogres are allergic to shooting. Even lousy shooting can whittle them down, and black powder weapons hurt! Warmachines are even worse. Get a gorger for warmachine hunting, and maybe sic the trappers on warmachine crews left undefended. (Don't bother against dwarven ones though... those little bastards are invincible)

5: Resist the urge to upgrade your bulls with Ironfists and Armor. It seems like a good idea... but the cost of all that gear could get a whole nother unit of bulls... or even ironguts. Empire and dwarf shooting will utterly destroy that 5+ save against shooting... and in close combat, you're probably either on the charge and killing their whole front row (preventing retaliation) or boned anyways. Plus, not giving bulls extra weapons gives their clubs extra armor-penetrating power... and that's a huge perk, since they really need kills to win.

6: Butchers. Are. Amazing. Try a list with two, if you can... You can cast every spell they have on one die. Two if you REALLY want to make sure it works. Also, every butcher has every spell on their list, making them way more versitile than a normal 2nd level mage. My normal Ogre list at 2000 points has 3 Butchers, and I've scared High Elves with my magic output. Add the Bangstick for extra offensive magicy goodness! :smallbiggrin:

I hope this was some help... and not just assorted ramblings. I do tend to run off at the mouth I'm afraid. :smalltongue:

[TheThan]

This is what I currently have:
1 bruiser/tyrant (ok I don’t have him yet, but since it’s a sure thing I’m counting him)
6 bulls
4 lead belchers
4 Iron guts
24 gnoblars (don’t have enough bases for the spares yet)



It’s not much so I don’t have much in the way of options. I didn’t assemble the army list I was using (didn’t quite like it though). He set the lead belchers (4) up in two units for whatever reason, I think I’d rather have one of 4. Other than that everything seemed fine though. I don’t have the list with me anymore otherwise I’d post what he set me up with. Next game I’m making my own list.


I’m a fairly good judge of distance, so charging shouldn’t be a huge deal, they charge at 12 inches anyway so they can hit from pretty far. Thanks for the info on the lead belchers though, I didn’t know that and I’ll try to remember it. I don’t want to get caught up in a “bayonet charge” pattern, where I wait and fire then charge into what’s left of what I shot at. Since they can move and shoot or stand and shoot I have lots of options to pick from, and that’s nice.

I discovered that they don’t like guns quite quickly, though the guy I faced didn’t do as much with them as he could. All his cannons missed but his chaos gun thingy misfired and hit my giant with 30 shots, which killed it quite dead. The good thing is that they will only get one or two shots off when I march at them (12 inches a round!) Using the gnoblars as speed bumps for Calvary and the like, I figured that tactic out. I just didn’t set the army up right, cause… basically I screwed up.

I see your point in not upgrading the bulls; in fact my original plan was to take just the standard clubs. Though I admit having some better armor will at least help them survive longer in a melee. With 3 wounds a piece, they’ll last even longer than normal. But like you said the armor won’t do a thing against shooting. I think it’ll depend on what I’m facing, against a lot of shooting I probably wouldn’t bother with the armor, as they’re likely to die before they get in charge range anyway.

Oh and that list above is in no particular order, so I’ll probably get a butcher before I get anything else. Anyway thanks for the info, any little bit I can get is helpful.

[Elfanatic]

While a unit of 4 Leadbelchers can be devastating with a potential 40 shots, 2 units of 2 are more manouvreable (spelling?). You can then have a unit on each flank, and spread your options. Or just put them near eachother and get the potential 40 shots, as well as setting one up to be charged (hopefully while stand&shooting) and the other to countercharge in your turn.

[BloodyAngel]

While a unit of 4 Leadbelchers can be devastating with a potential 40 shots, 2 units of 2 are more manouvreable (spelling?). You can then have a unit on each flank, and spread your options. Or just put them near eachother and get the potential 40 shots, as well as setting one up to be charged (hopefully while stand&shooting) and the other to countercharge in your turn.

True enough. It depends on how the list supports them. 2 units of 2 could work... but it means you'll need to buy two musicians (Never leave without one), and it makes them less of a close combat threat if you decide that is what you need them as. As pure shooters, they're sub-par... as they can only shoot one or two times a game. I instead use them as a unit of bulls with a really nasty single-use attack. In some cases... the threat of leadbelchers shooting is enough to dictate the enemy's movement. They're a bit too expensive to be sacrificed though. In 2 units of 2... they'd be less of a loss if they're killed... but they'd take up TWO special choices, and be far more vulnerable to panic from shooting. And once one panics, he's never coming back. You're right Than... try one unit of 4. Or if they're too unreliable for you.... one unit of 3. It seems like the main intent of the unit of 2, was to risk less of them blowing up on a misfire.

[TheThan]

I’ve got some leeway with my options. So I’ll play around with my army until I’m happy with it.
I just read the section on gut magic. I’m impressed. Despite them not having any real offensive spells, their buff spells are top notch. Since they get better the more butchers you have, I’m planning on getting at least two. Though I am going to have to pull out the rulebook and read up on magic in general.

[BloodyAngel]

Butchers don't excel at damage-dealing, true... but they're still quite nasty. And in a pinch... they fight as well as any other non-hero ogre. Give one the butcher's cleaver and laugh as he heals more wounds than he loses to mage-hunters that aren't hero-choices themselves. Also... bone-cracker isn't an incredible spell... but it IS pretty nice. It works wonders against cavalry... especially high elf cavalry... as you're sure to get in a few wounds, and most heavy cav are too expensive to afford it. The spell that provokes panic tests (Brain gobbler?) is quite nice against mid to low leadership troops like goblins, skaven, and beastmen. With a little luck, it can even work on the sturdier types. (Except dwarves of course... they are immune to all things) I've had a player not "waste his dispel dice" on a spell that provoked a panic test he was sure his Ld. 8 wood elves would pass... only to roll and 11 and flee the board. HA!

The only thing that's a pity is that gut magic doesn't have a spell to give ogres a second move... like the orcs, undead and beastmen have. That would be all kinds of amazing!

[TheThan]

I went over to the local gaming store to play yesterday, but I didn’t get to since they played Twilight Imperium (sp?) in stead.

However I did pick up some paint so I could at least paint the ogres.

Since I didn’t really like their description of what they did to get the colors they used in the codex (hate mixing paint) I’ve decided to go with a different color scheme. I’m planning on going with vomit brown for the base-coat, then bronzed flesh for highlights and probably either elf flesh or dwarf flesh for additional highlights. The pants are going to be darker brown and the weapons are going to be your typical metal. I want the clubs to be stone or wood, though I haven’t figured out how to do stone.

I’m toying with the idea of painting them all green with purple pants just for kicks, but I don’t know if I want something that’s that silly. I already did a warmachine army that’s kinda silly so I don’t know if I want to continue the trend.

[Kraggi]

It's always fun to paint a few models in a wacky scheme just for the hell of it. I have a giant I like to refer to as "Gorky the Colourblind Giant." I explain him as a product of massive inbreeding. He wears pants made out of a patchwork of every colour I could find, and has some nice green skin. Overall a fun model to paint, which is saying a lot, as I rarely get to painting things.

[Zenos]

I had fun painting my three ogre maneaters, one was clad in red with white spotted fur, with heavy gold trimming and i made some gold bars from bits of the plastic sprues, so he look kind of wealthy. Then there was one who got his coat painted graveyard earth and with the metallic stuff being given a rusty look. and the last one, a pirate, had lots of my prefered army colour, blue. My Empire models I either paint black and white or blue. Right now I feel an urge to repaint my Warrior Priest of Sigmar to have a black robe and some white stuff.

Also, I use black ink heavily for most of the plate armoured infantry, to give them a look as if covered in black blood/mud/other gore.

[Keris]

It's been a while since I checked this thread...
Anyway, my Warhammer team has decided to go Fantasy this year, and so I need to make an army for once. My favourite army is in fact Skaven. Yes, I know they have the worst troops in the game, and run at the first sign of a 40mm base, but they seem fun.:smallbiggrin:
We're playing 500pts, border patrol rules, anyone got any advice for a list?

[BloodyAngel]

Skaven don't suck. In fact... from what I've heard... they're pretty amazing if played well. Sure, their individual mook troops blow, but they are the definition of a horde army. Just fill the board with huge units of them and beat everyone on CR. In 500 points... no one will be able to match your numbers with enough CR of their own to ensure a win. Also, I've heard Plague Monks are amazing.

I've also heard skaven shooting is also 30-kinds of nasty... but occasionally blows you up. Risky. To tell the truth I've never played them, or played against them. It takes sooooo many models to make a skaven force... that no one I know has every tried it. Let me know how yours works out!

[Zenos]

Skaven don't suck. In fact... from what I've heard... they're pretty amazing if played well. Sure, their individual mook troops blow, but they are the definition of a horde army. Just fill the board with huge units of them and beat everyone on CR. In 500 points... no one will be able to match your numbers with enough CR of their own to ensure a win. Also, I've heard Plague Monks are amazing.

I've also heard skaven shooting is also 30-kinds of nasty... but occasionally blows you up. Risky. To tell the truth I've never played them, or played against them. It takes sooooo many models to make a skaven force... that no one I know has every tried it. Let me know how yours works out!

Doesn't skaven clanrats come for 2 points each? Or was that the skaven slaves, ah well, you can pack hundreds of them with ease.

[JellyPooga]

Doesn't skaven clanrats come for 2 points each? Or was that the skaven slaves, ah well, you can pack hundreds of them with ease.

It's Slaves that are 2pts (or are they 3pts now?...I forget).

and yes, Skaven are an amazing horde army...their "war machines" (warpfire throwers, jezzails and ratling guns) are much more powerful than equivalently pointed stuff from other armies, 'cos they're unreliable...however, the unreliability factor crops up so infrequently that it borders on being a bit broken...

If you do play skaven, however, beware high cost, well-armoured/high toughness opponents like chaos...although you're "war machines" can deal with them, when there's lots of them, you will struggle when your core units are being decimated and run away...

The trick to Skaven is tactics...many armies can get away with the old "charge and hope you roll well" tactic, but with skaven, positioning and movement are your key to victory...Slaves are also practically a requirement (in my mind they are the best troops in the game...2 or 3pts per model and your other troops don't panic when they break...talk about meatshield!).

I'll stop ranting about Skaven now (though I could go on for hours), 'cos I'll only get carried away otherwise...

[TheThan]

I finished putting my force together and getting them on the bases last night.

Cleaning off all the mold lines on those little buggers is tedious at best; at least they were easy to put together. The ogres weren’t so bad as at least they were large enough to hold (I have a small alligator clip that helps with the smaller stuff, but still it wasn’t easy).

My ogres look great. I sacrificed one of the gnoblars (not like I don’t have any spares) and stuffed him down the barrel of one of the lead belcher’s cannons. I also turned one of the power kegs into a beer keg for one of the bulls. Which makes me want to paint them like a bunch of frat boyz.

So I’m looking at a unit of six bulls, a unit of 4 lead belchers, a unit of 4 iron guts and a unit of 20 gnoblars. I’ll eventually get a tyrant, which will be using bruiser stats for a while. He’ll be imbedded in the unit of bulls, which leaves me with an ogre model floating around (5 bulls +1 tryant). I think I’ll use him as a butcher for now, and put him in the group of iron guts until I can buy a butcher model. I’ve also got four spare small bases, which might be used for gnoblar trappers, but I need two more. Or instead I have some LOTR Moria goblins that might work for the trappers, though I don’t know if it’s ok to use the round bases.

Up next: Spray on primer

My bro plays scaven. I’ll point this thread out to him when he gets up. I think he’s got nearly 2000 points worth (and trust me that is lots and lots of models). From what I’ve seen their shooting is great, unreliable but great, I don’t know about their magic though. My bro’s done more damage consistently with the rattling gun than any other weapon he’s got. Oh and the screaming bell is top notch awesome, if it doesn’t blow up.

Their slaves are little more than speed bumps (like gnoblars) but they work great for getting your opponent to move where you want them. Large groups of slaves are nice and juicy targets for a Calvary charge. Then you can nail them with shooting since you can shoot into your own guys.

[BloodyAngel]

Technically... every army needs some form of tactics. Trust me... pulling a win with Dark elves is no mean feat. Ogres can also be tricky since you have no static CR and tend to be outnumbered hardcore. Even chaos has to be careful not to get baited off the board or into bad terrain... Personally, I think the only "no-brains required" army is dwarves... with empire coming disturbingly close if played as a gunline or two Steamtanks and a popemobile. But some people will claim that there is a great ammount of strategy required to place a horde of stunties on a hill around a bunch of warmachines and blow everything up... so to each his own. I do know one thing though... I have never met anyone who has ever looked forward to a game against dwarves... it's usually. "Damn. I was hoping I was going to play against something fun." :smallannoyed:

Also... ogre fratboys... are awesome. I know a guy at the local game shop who made his out to be ballplayers from the cubs... they all have clubs and modified jersies... and the numbers and names are even correct. I'm not sure if that makes him a huge cubs fan... or means he doesn't like them. :smallamused:

[TheThan]

Must… not… let… thread… die!

Ok seriously I’ve started to paint my ogres this week.

I started with a base coat of vomit brown on their skin, followed by bronzed flesh for a mid tone and elf flesh for highlighting. Then I went on to do their pants, I started with a shadow Grey base coat and moved on to space wolves Grey highlight, gives it sort of a denim look. I also did a club, by using shadow Grey as a base, then a layer of codex Grey and skull white for highlights. That’s about all I have done on the one model.

What do you guy’s thing so far? When I get them done and can get some nice pics, I’ll probably post them.

[Zenos]

I generally paint my models in the sprue, it is much easier to do it in a sprue than when it is fully assembled, and I can paint every soldier with a colour before moving on to the next colour (although I do tend to use uniformed armies like Empire), and then I assemble them all together.

[BloodyAngel]

I'm usually far too eager to build m models to paint them all first. I'm not a great painter at any rate. My dark elves all have the same general theme of black and red robes/cloaks/what have you, on chainmail armor. I also splattered red gore over all of their blades, to make them look like they've just been used. Then, even if we lose, it makes it LOOK like we did some damage. :smallsigh:

[TheThan]

Buahahah!

I just got my Ogre tyrant and I’ve already got plans.

He comes with a gut plate that looks suspiciously like a Viking horned helm. So I might look into modifying it into a helmet. I know the LGSO would help me out with it, and so would my bro (who thinks it’d be pretty sweet). Now, if I do that, I could just use the other gut plate he comes with or putting in a big ol’ gut and make him all “guts out” (basically it means he really means business).

[Oeep Snaec]

So your ogres like to go to battle naked, cause thats...basically what it is. I shudder at the the thought.

[Zenos]

I'm usually far too eager to build m models to paint them all first. I'm not a great painter at any rate. My dark elves all have the same general theme of black and red robes/cloaks/what have you, on chainmail armor. I also splattered red gore over all of their blades, to make them look like they've just been used. Then, even if we lose, it makes it LOOK like we did some damage. :smallsigh:

Well, I am not so terribly fond of putting the models together and then having to painstakingly paint them. And I'm not a terribly good painter either.

[thedavo]

played my first game of fantasy in ages today, against a lizardmen army. 1500pts a side, it went well (for me)

my army consisted of:

Savage Orc Big Boss w/ great axe, biggeds ed kickin boots and guzzla's battle brew
19 Savage Orcs w/ additional choppas
Savage Orc big boss on boar w/ Porkos Pigstikka
9 Savage Boar boys w/ speaers, shield, full command and Nogg's Banner Of Butchery
Shaman w/level, scroll, waaaagh! paint
24 boyz w/additional choppas, full command
25 boyz w/additional choppas, full command
2 Spear Chukkas
Rock Lobba
Doom Diver

he had a few units of skinks, a couple units of saurus, a unit of kroxigors and a unit of salamanders, and some chameleon skinks.

comedy highlights include:

casting edbutt with my shaman on his general on one dice, him failing to dispel it on 3 dice, then failing to wound, and my bolt throwers landing a lucky hit on chameleon skinks (hitting on 7s!), then failing to wound again. the salamanders also ate 6 skinks in 3 shooting phases.

i ended up winning.

[BloodyAngel]

Everybody loves a good comedy bit...

In a two-on two game against a few guys I know, The game was my dark elves and my boyfriend's lizardmen, against high elves (Boo! Hiss!) and vampire counts. My caster is slapped with Drain Magic, and thus, does not count 5's or 6's on his casting rolls... and it is my turn. A unit of Undead knights are about to flank my boy's saurus... so I go for broke and cast Black Horror... which casts on a 12. I figure my chances are slim, but it's all I can do to skew that fight in his favor. I only have three dice, and I go for it. 4, 4, 3. With my plus one to cast for being a dark elf... the spell works, much to the shock of all! My foe laments his horrid luck... other people in the game store cheer and are amazed... then all I must do is roll above their meager strength to destroy a knight entirely. No save... no nothing. I grab my dice and roll... nothing. Not a single roll above 2. Every single knight lives... and proceeds to charge into the saurus' flank... I was laughing too hard to be angry.

I also have a chaos chariot that has a reputation for being invincible. I have never mounted a hero in this chariot... and it does not always win a lot of fights... but for some reason, that thing has never died in a game... save one, where a dwarven player was intentionally gunning for it all game. That thing has survived cannons (rolling 1's to wound) flank and rear charges from all manner of things, and being bombarded with spells from the lore of fire. Truly it is blessed by the chaos gods!

[RationalGoblin]

I have *one* unpainted, not-put-together Skaven Warlord. *sigh* and thats ALL I will be able to have, the warlord was freakin 10 bucks. Grumble...:smallannoyed:

On a different note, is their any Warhammer PBP role-playing sites around? Note: I don't want to pay, so don't direct me towards Warhammer FRP, please. :smallannoyed:

Also, I'll never be able to play warhammer against ANYONE because no one plays it where I live. Joyous day, eh?

[BloodyAngel]

There used to be a site to play the game online (the army game, not the RPG), but now they charge to use it... It's not much... so if you really want to give it a shot... http://lwhfb.lorenzonuvoletta.com/

As for the RPG... you can try all sorts of places. There was a WFRP game on here a while back. Try the role-playing forums. I love warhammr the RPG myself... though I am annoying as how empire-centric it is. No undead, no beastmen, no greenskins, no lizardmen... no ogres or dark elves! Pah! If you can rally a few people who really want to play, maybe we could start a PbP warhammer game on these forums.

[BloodyAngel]

There used to be a site to play the game online (the army game, not the RPG), but now they charge to use it... It's not much... so if you really want to give it a shot... http://lwhfb.lorenzonuvoletta.com/

As for the RPG... you can try all sorts of places. There was a WFRP game on here a while back. Try the role-playing forums. I love warhammr the RPG myself... though I am annoying as how empire-centric it is. No undead, no beastmen, no greenskins, no lizardmen... no ogres or dark elves! Pah! If you can rally a few people who really want to play, maybe we could start a PbP warhammer game on these forums. What do you think?

[LordVader]

Lorenz WHFB now costs cashmoney.

:smallfrown:

[Oeep Snaec]

Dagnabit, I'd love to take one of yalls on in a battle royale (online of course).

[TheThan]

Well I think I finally figured out what I’m going to put together for a basic 2,000-point ogre force. See spoiler:



[LIST]
Tyrant (embedded in bull unit 1) 305 total points
Tenderizer
Mastodon armor
Luck Gnoblar


Butcher (embedded in bull unit 2) 190 total points
Bloodcleaver
Dispel scroll
2 Tooth gnoblars


Ogre hunter 185 total points
Saber tusk
Saber tusk


Ogre bulls(5) 200 total points
Standard
lookout Gnoblar


Ogre bulls (5) 200 total points
Standard
Lookout Gnoblar


Iron guts (8) 384 total points

leadbelchers (4)220 total points

leadbelchers (4) 220 total points

Gnoblar trappers (8) 48 total points

Gnoblar trappers (8) 48 total points


Grand Total=2,000



This army is basically two boxes with two sets of trappers, a tyrant, a butcher and a hunter. I don’t need to really spend the cash on the trappers, since I have plenty of gnoblars, but I do need bases.

I might switch out the ogre hunter with something else, maybe a slave giant, but then I’d have to switch out the tyrants gear to accommodate the giantbreaker big name, its not that big a deal, it’ll depend on how well the hunter works for me.
unfortunately this is going to have to wait until i get the cash *sigh*.

[BloodyAngel]

My suggestions as an ogre player....

The list looks good, but if I were you, I would swap the Hunter out for a second butcher. One won't be enough to get through the magic defense of most players. Also, I've never tried groups of 5 bulls... sounds like it might be nasty... I may try it. 8 Ironguts is too much in one unit though. Split them into two units of 4. Stick the Tyrant in one, and perhaps a butcher with the bloodcleaver in the other. Take the Mastodon armor off of the Tyrant... as it's basically just heavy armor that MIGHT protect you from shooting. If he's in a unit, he's safe from shooting. You'd be better off with one of the magic gut-plates. I like the Greatskull or the Gutmaw myself.

If you do end up adding the second Butcher, look into the Skullmantle and the Bangstick, or whatever it's called. Skullmantle is all-kinds of amazing, and the extra bound spell from the stick is just one more thing for your opponent to have to worry about dispelling... helping you rule the magic phase.

My usual Ogre list is as follows...


The Rock-Gut Clan

Krogg Mawblessed the Mountian-Shaker, High Belcher, Eater of Things What are still Screaming, Lord of the Dance (Ogre Tyrant) 318 points
Tenderizer, Gut Maw, Wyrdstone Necklace, Heavy Armor, Brace of Pistols

Marv the Foul (Ogre Butcher) 175 points
Skullmantle, Bangstick

Grignr Bloodglutton 180 points
Dispel Scroll, Bloodcleaver

Ted
Dispel Scroll, Halfling Cookbook


Ogre Bulls x 4 Musician + Standard 170 points

Ogre Bulls x 4 Musician + Standard 170 points

Ogre Ironguts x4 Musician, Standard 222 points

Gnobblar Trappers x8 48 points

Ogre Leadbelchers x4 Musician 230 points

Ogre Maneaters x3 all with Heavy Armor and Brace of Pistols 270 points

Gorger x1 75 points

Gnoblar Scraplauncher x1 165 points

Gnoblar Fighters x23 46 points


Krogg either goes with the Maneaters and causes all sorts of hell, or with the Ironguts... depending on how much shooting my opponent has, and how many targets I want to present to him. The butchers TEND to fly solo, lurking near the other units to buff them.... save Grignr, who ends up in whichever unit Krogg ISN'T in. If I face a shoot-heavy list... all the butchers go into bull units to protect them from shooty death.

The Gorger warmachine hunts, and the assist him, and march-block to give my ogres the chance to charge. The Scraplauncher is MOSTLY there because I bought and built the model, which was a pain in the ass... so I feel the need to use it. I often debate on turning it into a Slave-Giant... but I don't have a Giant model. Someday!

The list does decently enough that I keep using it with only minor tweaks. The three Butchers and the bangstick lay down a LOT of spells in a turn, and I'm not afraid to cast the same one twice with a second die if I need. My favorites are Bone-cracker (murders High elven cavalry) and Brain-Gobbler. Marv is usually the one I try Brain-Gobbler with, since he reduces LD by 1 when they test for Panic. This makes even well-disciplined troops break on occasion, and wreaks hell on mid to low LD troops like humans, beastmen and skaven. Goblins never have a prayer. :smallamused:

It's a real pity we can't find a place to play online. I wouldn't mind taking you guys on... An online warhammer campaign would be quite awesome!

[TheThan]

I’m a little paranoid of loosing too many combats, and always being outnumbered is playing the odds a little too much, not that I’m afraid to, mind you, but I don’t want my guys breaking and running more often than not.

I believe I’ll have two full ranks with six guys (will have to double check) and a standard, which will help greatly in wining combat. Plus the added benefit of them being ranked so my bull charges will be at +1 strength. Bull charge +3 attacks equals 20 attacks on a charge, with just the five bulls, plus and extra charge and 5 attacks with the tyrant. That’ll be 26 attacks in the first combat, every combat thereafter it’ll be 20 attacks, minus however many bulls go down. That should KILL a lot of stuff.

The unit with the butcher will be doing 24 attacks on a charge and 18 each round thereafter. Not counting however many bulls go down. Not quite as devastating but it should give whomever I’m fighting just as bad a day.

I’m looking of using the hunter and the trappers because they can stalk around the outside of the main force and deal with flankers and support whatever side may need it. But then again a gorger can do the same thing, and come in from behind; the only problem is he may not come in until turn 5 by then he may not be of any real help.

What I’m considering is dropping the hunter and take a bruiser with the army standard instead. But that ties up an awful lot of points.


I have a question about the bull gut armor, does it count just his unit strength or the unit strength of the unit he’s imbedded with as being 6?

[BloodyAngel]

That all sounds good on paper... but I hate to inform you... hardly any ogre players play ogres with more than one rank. It's just too expensive for what it does.

Instead of one unit of 10, two units of five can accomplish more... cover more of the battlefield, and not give your opponent a nice, large, high-points target to shoot at. Three units of 4 is even better.

Sure, you're often outnumbered... but ogres need kills to win fights... not CR. They're too expensive to get in large numbers. You will have so few units, you will be outmaneuvered and combo-charged. Instead... break your army into small, manageable units and combo-charge things yourself. One unit of 10 won't deal as much ouch as two units of 4... especially if one hit's the flank. Also, any unit your Tyrant is in won't really need the help getting kills.

Look up MSU tactics online... possibly on Druchii.net. (Multiple Small Units) There was an ogre site around, that seems to be out of order now. http://www.ogrestronghold.com/main/

Give those two a try... and play a few games with that set up. That huge unit will wreak hell... but if it goes down... the game is all-but lost.

[TheThan]

I got to play my second game today, at 2250. I played against a bretonia army, unfortunately I lost.

I made a huge mistake that cost me the game. My unit of bulls got charged by a unit of men at arms, with a paladin. I survived the charge and actually killed his paladin with my tyrant, but I forgot to have him roll for the ogre’s fear, so I told him and we agreed to have him roll and take back the charge (he failed). So he got to keep his character. So the tyrant and paladin slugged it out in an epic battle until I finally failed a curage test (or whatever its called when you lose combat) and ended up running into the back of his knights below and lost the whole unit.

I got a units of ironguts charged by a unit of questing knights, but his charge and subsequent attacks really didn’t hurt then, So I outflanked that unit with a big unit of bulls, and my butcher (went according to plan actually). But those suckers are tough as nails and survived for quite some time, eventually they broke and I overran them with the one irongut I had left.
Then I sent the flanking unit into the unit of men at arms from above and they got torn up, that really sucked.

lets see… what else happened.
Oh yeah, he was going to try to out flank my flanking guy with his Pegasus knights, but I moved my hunter out of the terrain he was in and took a pot shot at them with the spear launcher, I hit for one wound. Next turn he charged the hunter. His charge and other attacks did nothing to the hunter and he and his cats cut them down, forcing one to flee, which the cats pursued. The knight flew over a unit of archers, which failed their panic test and began fleeing, but the cats caught them and the knight and finished them both off.

That took up most of the game right there. I had the other unit of iron guts, the giant and the lead belchers on the other side of the field. Both of us were really waiting for the other to make a move which didn’t happen before we ran out of time.

All and all, I killed a unit and a half of knights, three Pegasus knights and some archers, as well as a few men at arms here and there (mostly from the scrap launcher).

Oh yeah I had a unit of trappers move in to engage some more men at arms, I wasn’t close enough for a charge and since I declared I was marching I still moved my 8 inches. So they shot at his guys and killed like two or three guys. He wasn’t happy so he charged them, killing a few and making me make an insane courage check, which I made! Next combat they broke and ran, though I did manage to rally them again.


I lost by a lot, mainly because he captured two standards and my tyrant and butcher. Otherwise it would have been much closer points wise.


army list

 Tyrant 305
Tenderizer
Giant breaker
Dispel scroll
Luck Gnoblar


Butcher 190
Bloodcleaver
Dispel scroll
2 Tooth gnoblars

Ogre hunter 185
Saber tusk
Saber tusk



Ogre bulls(5) 200
Standard
lookout Gnoblar



Ogre bulls (5) 200
Standard
Lookout Gnoblar

[list]
Iron guts (4) 192
Iron guts(5) 240

leadbelchers (4)220

Gnoblar trappers (8) 48
Gnoblar trappers (8) 48

Scrap launcher 165

Slave giant 175

Gorger 75

total 2253

note: i just realized i'm over by 3 points. must have made a math error when i threw this together.

[Zenos]

So the tyrant and paladin slugged it out in an epic battle until I finally failed a curage test (or whatever its called when you lose combat)

Break test is the word you're looking for, yes?

[TheThan]

Break test is the word you're looking for, yes?

Ahh thanks

*Noobness showing*:smallconfused:

[Kraggi]

Maaan, I'd just like to second the sentiment of wishing there were a way we could do an online Warhammer campaign. I'd probably be one of the worst people around, but still, it would be most enjoyable.

[BloodyAngel]

Well... there's Lorenz. It's not THAT much, I suppose. We could run an online warhammer campaign even... with a story and all that jazz. Or just a simple "Invade or be invaded" territory game... or just a tourney-style game with an eventual final tally of the top player and all that.

Or if anyone else can come up with an idea for how we could play warhammer online somehow... I would be thrilled to join. I'd even run the campaign, or whatnot. :smallbiggrin:

[Oeep Snaec]

I'd be all in as well.

[Elfanatic]

Sounds good to me, especially since you wouldn't need painted miniatures. My miniatures mostly look like they're covered in vomit...until other people see them, and they are actually covered in vomit...

[RationalGoblin]

I'm in, even if I have ONE, unpainted Skaven Warlord. My only miniature because this game is expensive.

[Theork]

I play all three main warhammer systems as well as Battlefleet gothic, necromunda and mordheim.
I also play DoW.
I'm a thorough fanatic! :smallbiggrin:

[Eksar Lindisfar]

ook guys, I have a request for you =P I´m going to run a Bretonnian army, I know more or less what it needs to do it, but I need help. I'm going to make a theme for my army and since I was just reading stuff about the crusades, it inspired me and I thought that I could use a theme based on the border princes, so I though I could ask for help here on where to get additional information (I know of the WFRP books from black industries...but I don't know how much I can trust those books, or where I can find them if you know what I mean...) so I can start reading it...I know that the Round Table is down, so I just wanted to ask here anyways.

thanks in advance-.

[Theork]

Tips for making a themed force:

-Include units that would have been there at the time, for example mounted squires were not in the crusades, but young nobles were.
So include knights of the realm(to represent the nobles), and field trebuchets (which would have been used in sieges and to frag opponents!) but not mounted squires.

- Find a colour scheme you like. Traditionally the main colours were white, black and red, but that doesnt mean you have to use them. For example white would have been used on the cloth, black on the reigns and pattern on the horse cloth and red for heraldry and plumes.
Personally I'd scrap that and use red on the cloth and black over that, maybe using white on the lances and heraldry (with black on the details).
It's up to you.

-Have fun! There is nothing more awesome than a themed force.

[Alpharius]

Unless it's a force that always wins! But I just can't get one them.

[Theork]

I once had a unit of three space marines that beat 3 lictors in combat.
They were legends...

[Eksar Lindisfar]

thanks a lot Theork, I will take your advice as well, I'm open to any other suggestions as well

[Theork]

Another key factor to add is to always add units you love.
As long as you can make a good reason for it go for it!
I never lead my Ocs without Grimgor who traditionally hates goblins. That never stopped me using a squig herd in the Nemises Crown though, as I used them as tracker dogs, "fer huntin' stunties!".

Just because there were no pegasi (pegasuses?) in our crusades doesn't mean there are none in Warhhammer!

[werewolfjay]

(if this is about multiply princes banding together) when you start to paint your knights i would paint the banner,champions, and musician different to show that the champion is the noble leading his personal guards the banner is of his house and the musician his personal minstrel
and have one prince lead them (the hero of your force)with his own guards(use the really good knights to show how powerful he is so that is why he is leading the army) i would also include a damsel to protect against magic ( she could also be included in the theme by saying the hero of your army saves her from danger a lot:smallbiggrin: ) and include peasants and Pegasus knights ( peasants follow the lord to battle and Pegasus knights are loyal to the leading noble)
I hope this helps

[Eksar Lindisfar]

sure, thanks a lot, in this case I'm making a small army of no more than 500 pts. so it will be one prince and his personal army, I made a Heraldry already for them, I just have to assemble the miniatures and paint, also...where could I find the books for the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay? (if you know what I mean with finding them)

[werewolfjay]

you could order it from amizon or go into a barnes and noble see if its there and read it in the store or borders (any book store will do but these two dont complain about you reading the books:smallbiggrin: :xykon: )

[TheThan]

Well I’ve been painting my ogres a lot lately. Now I’m down to five that need to be painted (4 lead belchers and one bull that popped off his base). So I’m about 2/3 done with my current force.

The colors I’ve chosen work really well and I’m happy with the colors and the paint job I’m doing. I’m planning on buying another box of ogres when I get my income tax refund. That should put me at or near 2000 points. I might also buy a butcher but I’m not sure if I will, as I want to pick up a new video card for my pc too.

I did manage to get half a game in against my bro’s skaven force. We didn’t finish it due to time constraints. It was… interesting. Seeing all those trays of rat people is a bit on the intimidating side… good thing they’re easy to kill. He’s been itching to play me for a couple of weeks, I was going to kill my dnd game on Saturday but the LGS is having a 40K tournament (Armageddon/apocalypse or whatever its call). Since I don’t like 40K and my bro doesn’t like what they did to his Necrons, we may not get to play each other. That and by friends picked up Smash brothers Brawl the other day…


edit
In a random act of spending money, my bro bought me a blister of Gnoblar trappers... woot!

[Keris]

So I particpated in a Warhammer tournament the other day. Nothing major, the heats for the School's League tournament (500pts if anyone was wondering). The last two years I played 40K and no other team showed up, but this year I played Fantasy and two other teams show up (go figure).
I have never played a game of Fantasy before using the Rulebook, and as my skaven were at the time (and still are) half assembled, I used a friend's goblin models and a army list I made on the day.
I played three games, and won them all.

When did Goblin's get so good?

[BloodyAngel]

Goblins have been great since the last edition... and became amazing in the new one. The game rules make horde armies and shooting armies particularly nasty. Goblins also have a lot of nasty tricks that few armies can deal with. At 500 points, most players will have trouble fielding a force unless they too are playing horde armies. 500 points of ogres, for example... is about... 2 units and a hero. 500 points of Dark Elves... is about 3, tops. 500 points of goblins will dominate the board in numbers, and numbers win fights. Without access to their nicer (and usually very expensive) special and rare choices, most armies will have trouble being able to overcome the static combat resolution of a goblin unit...

Try and all-goblin force at 2000 points. It's quite a bit harder. Panic and psychology are your worst enemies, and they show up a lot more when people can afford to bring them.

[Helgraf]

500 points in Lizardmen still gets you a sizeable force if you play primarily with Skink based units...

[werewolfjay]

its been a while so ive decided to post two things
1 TheThan i would get the butcher for the magic protection guts magic might not be as strong as other army's but it is important to block enemy magic
2 here is my 500 point list
1 tomb prince(Emperor Justinian) +great weapon+armer of ages 139 points
1 liche priest(Anubite)+ staff of ravening 160 points
10 skeleton archers 80 points
10 skeleton warriors +full command + light armor 115points
total 494 points
Knowing your opponent needs to test to charge your units .... price less
for those who dont know the tombkings i must include one tomb prince and one liche prist

[Battlefield]

Hello people. I need help.

Being interested in wargaming, I decided to try Warhammer. Currently, all I have is the Battle for Skull Pass, no army books, and lots of theoretical knowledge.

I have a few questions:

1. I am going to soon get more units for my BFSP armies (Including an Organ gun, Rangers, some Squigs, and another shaman). As a fan of turtling, erm "defensive fighting", my dwarf army will be focusing on taking corners and staying put. Any Ideas for the Orcs and Goblins?

2. I am considering expanding into a new army, for maybe 500-1000 points, if only for the look of a 3-way battle. The trouble is, I can only try one new army at this time. I perfer small, really tough armies with many siege weapons. No Ogres, Dark Elves, or Chaos (I am really horrible at painting). Any Ideas, or should I focus on Dwarves/O&G?


Any other advice would be helpful.

[werewolfjay]

Hello people. I need help.

Being interested in wargaming, I decided to try Warhammer. Currently, all I have is the Battle for Skull Pass, no army books, and lots of theoretical knowledge.

I have a few questions:

1. I am going to soon get more units for my BFSP armies (Including an Organ gun, Rangers, some Squigs, and another shaman). As a fan of turtling, 5erm "defensive fighting", my dwarf army will be focusing on taking corners and staying put. Any Ideas for the Orcs and Goblins?

2. I am considering expanding into a new army, for maybe 500-1000 points, if only for the look of a 3-way battle. The trouble is, I can only try one new army at this time. I perfer small, really tough armies with many siege weapons. No Ogres, Dark Elves, or Chaos (I am really horrible at painting). Any Ideas, or should I focus on Dwarves/O&G?


Any other advice would be helpful.
1A the orcs and gobbos are about combat and numbers there main tactics is to ignore casulties and wipe out the enemy the army contains fanatics black orks and big units the opposite of dwarves who say still and unload there guns. for any army that revolves around combat include fast units such as wolf riders,spider riders, chariots, and boar boyz to disrupt the enemy and weaken them and ALL WAYS INCLUDE SHAMONS there magic is unperdictable but funny there also the catapults (the bolt thrower doesn't hit much) there long range and no need for the use of BS is what makes them awsome it like the magic is unperdictable and funny this is from experience

2B
you answered your own question with one the only army that is tough to kill and has many siege weapons is the empire but they cant take as many as the dwarves so go with the dwarves in this case the only other option would be is the ork and gobbos but it will require a lot of guess range weapons so those three are the only ones it all depends on what you like and which army is more fun for you if i was you i would battle the army your interested in or watch the army of another player to get a feel for them and then choose the one you like best
ihope this helped(man that was a lot of writing:smallsigh: )

[TheThan]

Just got my second battalion of ogre kingdoms today (haven’t even opened them yet). I’m looking forward to getting them together and painted.


Also I agree with werewolfjay, on the orcs. Keep in mind that animosity can make them REALLY fast, especially if you can combine it with that spell that grants more movement (forget the name). A group of orcs can potentially get in the enemy’s face in the first round.

The orcs and dwarves are totally differently styles of armies, so try to play them each to their advantages.

edit
the battle of skull pass set should have come with a paperback rules booklet. it should have everything on running the game, but not have the painting and modeling stuff in it. if you didn't get one, then there's a problem with your box.
or were you referring to the codexes?

[thedavo]

Also I agree with werewolfjay, on the orcs. Keep in mind that animosity can make them REALLY fast, especially if you can combine it with that spell that grants more movement (forget the name). A group of orcs can potentially get in the enemy’s face in the first round.


hand of gork (goblin)
waaagh! (orcs)

i once got a 30" charge with my savage orc boar boys on turn 1 of the game. my opponent was not too impressed. (animosity led to 6" move, moved 14", waaagh with IF)

[BloodyAngel]

First, allow me to say that I hate dwarves. I hate them with the undying passion of a thousand firey suns. I hate them in ways that would make a sane man turn to drink. I hate them so much, I wish that I could become one... so that my subsequent suicide would mean one more dead dwarf in the world. :smallsigh:

That out of the way. Dwarves are a great beginners army... or an army for people who don't really want to learn the (needlessly) complicated and irritating movement rules, or feel like dealing with magic and it's randomness. I would suggest you get a few units of Thunderers (dwarves have other ranged units... but for the life of me, I've never seen them used), some cannons, an organ gun, and maybe a few of the odder war machines, like the flame cannon or grudge thrower. Plant the whole damned thing on a hill, and guard it with warriors or ironbreakers. Most armies then pick up an anvil of doom, as it is likely THE most annoying thing in the game for your opponent.

That being said... dwarves are boring, and the rules favor them so heavily, that I can't imagine why any sane person plays them. The dwarven shooty army is one of THE most annoying and cheesy things to face for many an army, and it's practically the only way to play the stunties. They are very much a one-trick pony army... Their trick just works very well. They've been a favorite at Games Workshop for ages, and it shows. In my opinion, Orcs and Goblins are far more fun to play, and less likely to get things thrown at you by your opponents after every game.

[werewolfjay]

First, allow me to say that I hate dwarves. I hate them with the undying passion of a thousand firey suns. I hate them in ways that would make a sane man turn to drink. I hate them so much, I wish that I could become one... so that my subsequent suicide would mean one more dead dwarf in the world. :smallsigh:



That being said... dwarves are boring, and the rules favor them so heavily, that I can't imagine why any sane person plays them. The dwarven shooty army is one of THE most annoying and cheesy things to face for many an army, and it's practically the only way to play the stunties. They are very much a one-trick pony army... Their trick just works very well. They've been a favorite at Games Workshop for ages, and it shows. In my opinion, Orcs and Goblins are far more fun to play, and less likely to get things thrown at you by your opponents after every game.
thats why i smile and laugh so hard when my tomb scorpions pop up behind the war machine and thunderers:smallamused: flyers also work well against them

[BloodyAngel]

I play dark elves and ogres.... I haven't got much answer to dwarven shooting. In fact... I haven't got much of an answer to a lot of armies.

But I still don't like dwarves... Personal opinion. A few friends of mine like them. I think they're great for beginners, since they don't have to move ever, or use magic... two of the parts of the game most difficult to master... but that also makes them kind of boring in the long run. No real strategy beyond picking the best targets for your shooting. I also think the rules of the game make them a bit TOO good.

Then again, looking at the new army books... every army is getting needlessly amazing. I've played new high elves... and the new vampires... and compared to the old edition armies... they're horridly broken. I'm just hoping the updates for the rest of the armies makes them all playable against each other and relatively even. Right now, the poorer armies like Beasts of Chaos, Ogres and Dark Elves don't stand a chance. Even the higher powered armies of the old edition, like wood elves, are boned against the new high elves and vampire counts.

But dwarves have always been amazing... because standing behind a wall and shooting everything to death works. All a dwarf player has to do is shoot the units that can get to him quick and hit hard... like heavy cav and chariots. Then he can pick off infantry and slower units, and laugh at lighter ones when they bounce off his T4 3+ armor save infantry. That's infuriating to deal with when you play an army that can't even get it's lord choices to T4... and who's only troops who have better than a 5+ save have the stupidity flaw. GAH! :smallfurious:

[TheThan]

I may go to a little warhammer event tomorrow, it’s a “warhammer in a flash” deal, 500 points.

Anyway following the rules on the flyer (see spoiler) I came up with the following army list.

What do you guys think of it?

Bruiser 130+17=147
Luck gnoblar +5
Great weapon +8
Heavy armor +4

Bulls x4 (140)
Ironguts x3 (144)

Gnoblars x10 (20)

Gnoblar trappers x8 (48)

499 points


Players may choose up to 500 points from their army books with the following exceptions:

1: you may spend up to 250 points on heroes. Regardless of points, no more than two heroes may ever be selected. The 150-point limit includes magic items, special abilities and equipment

2) you do NOT have to purchase any character models, but you MUST nominate a model to act s the genral. This figure must be either a character model or a unit champion. Champions even if acting acting as a general must stay with their unit.

3) you must select at least two units and no more than eight units

4) you must have at least one core unit

5)you must take at least one infantry unit of 10 models.

6) you may take up to one special unit choice one one rare choice in your army, although if you gorgo the rare choice you may take two special units.

7) you can alter the unit minimum sizes for these smaller games as follows:
Minimum unit size of 20 should be 10
Minimum unit size 10 should be 5
Minimum unit size of 3 should be 2
All other unit sizes stay the same

8) You may take no magic standards
9) You may spend no more than 100 points on a single model, war machine, or chariot (so no giants, dragons, really large monsters, hellblazers, flame cannons and so forth). This restriction does not apply to character models

10) You may select no more than one war machine or chariot for your army. This restriction applies to choices that allow more than one item per selection (EG two goblin chariots normally count as one special choice). You may only take one

11) You may select no more than one flying unit or creature

There’s a few others but they do not apply to other factions (bretonians and tomb kings to be specific)



edit]
how about this army

bbruiser 145
iron fist
Luck gnoblar

Iron guts x4 144

gnoblars x10 20

leadbeltchers x2 (110)

maneater 1 80

499 points

[werewolfjay]

these are warband rules and let me tell you a tombking warband is very deadly

[BloodyAngel]

I've never played Warbands sadly... so I wouldn't know.

[TheThan]

This would be my first time, it starts in *checks time*, an hour or so, I’ll let you all know how it went.

[TheThan]

Ogre kingdoms special report:

Wins 1
Losses 2

Total battles: 3

Battle one

The ogre warband went up against a unit of bretonian peasant archers, peasant infantry and a group of 12 or so knights of the something orother.

Turn one he prays and I march my 12 inches and get halfway to his face. He opens up with a volly of arrows and I loose on iron gut (25% of the force) causing me to panic, and I roll really high and am forced to flee (even with the bruiser in the unit).

Next turn I rally the ironguts and close in again. Another volley of arrows kills a second irongut and I’m forced to flee again. Meanwhile I charge into his peasants and cream them with my ogres (even forgot to bull charge guh), but it didn’t matter I slaughtered them and made the survivors run off the table.
Then my opponent reformed his ranks of knights.

Third turn I rally the ironguts and move forward again. This time they survived the volley and I was able to get close to pull off a charge. I manage a push, even though I lost my last irongut, leaving just the bruiser there to lay the smackith down on those peasants
The knights charge into my ogres and kill one, they break and are forced to flee. The knights pursue but can’t catch the ogres (stupidly high rolls on my courage and break tests, not to mention the fleeing part).

Turn four the bruiser lays into the peasants killing one with each swing, they break and are off the table (good riddance). I also rally my bulls and turn around to meet the bretonian charge. He manages to kill the rest of them (due to really crappy combat on my turn).

Turn five he turns his knights around (being on the end of the table). I brace for the inedible charge, knowing that its going to hurt.

Turn six he moves forward but doesn’t get close enough for me to worry. The game’s over. He wins via points. The gnoblars didn’t do much in that game but get either killed or scared off.


Battle two

Wood elves vs ogre kingdoms
The wood elves consist of some form of infantry, some archers, a spellcaster general and two trees.


Turn one starts off as it always does, by marching 12 inches and seeing the opponents eyes widen as he realizes I can charge him next turn. He fires a volley into my ogres, they shrug it off with minimum damage. The ironguts and the rest gnoblars move forward as usual, while the spellcaster shifts some trees in my way to block my charge from them (annoying, but a good idea).

Turn two my ironguts move through the trees, and end up really close to his tree dudes, since I didn’t have line of sight I couldn’t charge, I would have failed it anyway. Meanwhile my bulls lay into his infantry, killing enough to force a break test, he makes it and now they’re both in combat.

Turn three is where everything falls apart. He charges into my ironguts with his trees, killing one (oh and he shifted the forest I was just barely in, hurting them too). Naturally I fail my break test due to stupidly high rolls, I roll a 12 on my run and end up nearly back where I started. Meanwhile my bulls loose combat again and fail their break test fortunately he doesn’t peruse.

Turn four I rally my ironguts but fail to do the same with the bulls. So I sent the gnoblars in hoping I’d do better. The trappers get killed and run off the table, while the fighters don’t do much. I had to read them the rules that say the gnoblars don’t make other gnoblars run. That’s the end of turn four.

Turn five I lumber up with my ironguts but one gets cut down via arrows, and I’m forced to flee again. while my bulls run off the table.

Turn six I rally the last irongut again and get pelted with arrows, but that doesn’t hurt them.

Wood elves win, via points.


Game five

Ogre kingdoms vs dark elves

I was up against a unit of warriors, some form of archers and their fast cavalry and their general (some guy on horse back he said he was a… noble maybe?).

This game was really fun, I set my trappers up behind his cavalry, since I went first, I moved forward and used my sharp stuff attack, killing two of his cavalry. He turned them around and charged into them, killing several, I manage to not flee. But that’s ok its 48 points of throw away points that are keeping his cav from getting into the real fight.

Turn two I charge his archers, he stands and shoots, I loose a bull, but I keep from breaking. So I get off the charge, my bulls butcher them (once again forgetting my bull charge), chasing them down and slaughtering them to the last man. Meanwhile I have to wheel around with the ironguts and come around from the side.

Turn three he kills the rest of my trappers and moves to position himself to charge into the rear of my ironguts (bad mistake really), but then he decides to charge in with his general and challenge mine.

Now my bruiser is decked out with heavy armor, a great weapon and a luck gnoblar. His attacks bounce off my bruisers armor, and he retaliates and one shots the Dark elf general. So it was a bad mistake, that cost him his general and a lot of points.

Oh just before this he failed a charge with his infantry, which is good, because I was lining up a charge with my bulls.

Turn four I get a charge off with my bulls (remembering my bull charge this time), I decimate his front rank, his attacks back manage to kill another bull. Leaving me with two bulls in that unit. But he breaks and flees into some trees, I attempt to peruse but I roll 2 and end up taking a step forward… Yay

While that’s going on I turn my ironguts around preparing to try to run down his cavalry. It doesn’t happen as he wisely decides that my ironguts are too much for his cav.

Turn five, he charges into my two remaining ironguts, killing one, since he hit the flank, I get no attacks back (as my understanding is).

Turn six I’m in position to hit him with my ironguts and splatter his cav, which is what happens.

Victory me

Apparently my ogres prefer dark meat.

6th place, dark elves, 5th place ogre kingdoms (me), 4th place wood elves, 3rd place, bretonia, 2nd place high elves, and 1st place goes to my bro's skaven force.

[thedavo]

here's the 2000pt list i've been using for the last couple of weeks:

Savage Orc Warboss w/enchanted shield, porko's pigstikka, ironback boar
Savage Orc Big Boss w/great wepon & bigged ed kickin boots
Level 2 orc shaman with scroll and waaagh! paint
Level 2 orc shaman with nibbla's itty ring
9 Savage boar boyz w/full command, spears, shields and Nogg's Banner Of Butchery
19 Savage Boyz w/full command and additional choppas
2x 24 Orc boyz w/additional choppas and full command
25 Orc boyz w/additional choppas and full command
5 wolf boys w/spears
2x spear chukkas
rock lobba
doom diver

so far it's played 3 won 2 lost 1. Last week played a daemon army twice. first game cast gork's warpath in my first magic phase and stomped his entire army. then Gork and Mork abandoned me and i got annihilated in 2 turns. ah well. rematch was a lot closer, but pulled off a win in the last turn thanks to a lucky spear chukka shot killing his daemon prince. highlight of that on was my savage orc boar boyz lining up a tasty rear charge on his horrors, only to fail their animosity test and stand there. on the last turn. bah.

went up against a high elf guy today and had great fun, although my shooting was scarily accurate, thanks to a combination of me getting good at guess ranges and plain luck - in 8 shots i think i scattered twice and never misfired, and killed a huge amount of spearmen, silver helms and shadow warriors. also, his lord on eagle charged a big unit of boyz and proceeded to spend all the game in combat with them, until i killed his eagle and he ran off in the last turn. the amount of miscasts was ludcrous aswell - he averaged one per magic phase, and i managed two aswell, one of which killed one of my shamans, the other made the other guy stupid and frenzied (gotta love orc miscasts)

[BloodyAngel]

Ahhhh dark elves.... we suck somethin' fierce. Until our update, anyways.

Now what do you mean by his "cavalry"? Dark elves have two types... Dark Riders, who are fast cav on horseback... and Cold One Knights, who are heavy cav on large lizards.

I can't see cold one knights dying to gnoblar shooting, or them failing to break the gnobs, unless the dark elf player was very... VERY unlucky. Thus, I'm guessing you mean he had dark riders, who hit about as hard as a wet sponge. If your opponent was expecting them to do anything other than run interferance, bait and flank charge to deny ranks... he's clearly new. Since he had the man-berries to challange an ogre leader with a T 3 elf... I'm all but certain of it. Some things you just don't do.

I've played the dark elf vs ogre fight before, and it's always a good one, because both armies are roughly as underpowered. (Old high elves used to be too... now they're ripped.) The last tourney I played was an informal one amongst friends. The top player was a dwarf player... followed by lizardmen, I tied with one high elf player for third, and a second high elf player came in last. This was before they were updated though... I would likely lose to them now, since the only way to fight them is shooting and magic, and I like my close combat troops. :smallannoyed:

[TheThan]

Ahhhh dark elves.... we suck somethin' fierce. Until our update, anyways.

Now what do you mean by his "cavalry"? Dark elves have two types... Dark Riders, who are fast cav on horseback... and Cold One Knights, who are heavy cav on large lizards.

I can't see cold one knights dying to gnoblar shooting, or them failing to break the gnobs, unless the dark elf player was very... VERY unlucky. Thus, I'm guessing you mean he had dark riders, who hit about as hard as a wet sponge. If your opponent was expecting them to do anything other than run interferance, bait and flank charge to deny ranks... he's clearly new. Since he had the man-berries to challange an ogre leader with a T 3 elf... I'm all but certain of it. Some things you just don't do.

I've played the dark elf vs ogre fight before, and it's always a good one, because both armies are roughly as underpowered. (Old high elves used to be too... now they're ripped.) The last tourney I played was an informal one amongst friends. The top player was a dwarf player... followed by lizardmen, I tied with one high elf player for third, and a second high elf player came in last. This was before they were updated though... I would likely lose to them now, since the only way to fight them is shooting and magic, and I like my close combat troops. :smallannoyed:


they had to be the dark riders, since they were fast cav. that's pretty much what i got out of watching the cav fight. This is one of his first games with the D. elves. he usually plays tomb kings, and even then he doesn't play a lot.

[CHASE THE HERO]

yeah, im still pretty new at WH but i am feilding a 1000 pt Asrai (wood elves for you who didnt know) army and have been pretty sucessful playing against my brothers dwarf:smallyuk: army and my neighbors O&G.:smallyuk:

[Zenos]

FINALLY I decided to paint the rest of my spearmen and my ouriders. From a unit that before consisted of ten spearmen I now have 26.

[TheThan]

I finally got around to picking up another box of ogres and a butcher.

Put them together and primered them yesterday.

My butcher looks badass.

He’s got a meat cleaver, a bag with a dagger in it, a rack of ribs and a bunch of meat hooks hanging off of his pants (which are being dragged down by the weight). he’s also got a severed spinal cord hanging off of some chains hanging off of his back and finally he’s got a chain of skulls dangling off of his bonesaw (weapon).

I’m looking forward to painting him, but first I want to finish my warmachine army so I’ll have something finished (all I have is one warcaster to finish painting and about 10 guys to base and ‘ardcoat).

As for the warhammer guys, I’ve got about 15 ogres to paint, and about 90 gnoblars to paint to. So I’m no where near done but hey, it’s a hobby right… right?

[thedavo]

had another two games with above orc list today, first against a beastman army consisting of lots of big things - he had a giant, a shaggoth, 6 minotaurs and a doombull, aswell as three big beastherds, and lots of magic. managed a fairly convincing win on that one.

the second game was against a goblin army, which was pretty nasty - four big blocks of night goblins, with nets and 3 fanatics in each, loads of spider riders (6 units of 5 i think), a giant, and the same warmachines as i take. we didn't finish that one, because only got to end of turn 4 before it was time to go home. was pretty even at that point, it was the start of my turn and his general's unit was running away from my savage orcs (within charge range), but my general's unit had completely died, and i'd lost a unit of boys led by a shaman.

[TheThan]

It looks like I’m going up against the LGS owner’s ork and goblins force Sunday. I can hardly wait, I want to impress him (and everyone else there) with my tripped out ogre butcher.

He’s looking pretty awesome, I’ve added a halfing cookbook to his base (well I built it but I haven’t added it yet). It looks pretty sweet; it’s on a little pillar. I got lucky with that, my bro had the book in his bitz box and I was digging through it looking for something else, and I found it. He said I could use it.

Anyway I’m going to crash for the night, I’ll tell you guys about the game Sunday or so.

[CHASE THE HERO]

The other day went and played a 1000pt army against the dwarf army my bro has. the game went very well by turn 4 where i had a unit of 14 warriors surrounded by my dryads and glade riders. then on turn 5 he popped his miners out behind my glade guard and began massacring them as soon as i was done with the surrounded dwarf warriors i watched in horror as his cannons took out like 6 models in 2 shots :smallfurious: . barely won the game (friggun core units cost like 12pts minimum). lesson learned: spread out forces are better and dont commit all your guys to one combat.

[TheThan]

Unfortunately real life happened and the LGS owner couldn’t make to our scheduled game. So I’m going to have to wait until some other day, maybe Friday.

Next Saturday and Sunday are out due to a warmachine event Saturday, and dnd Sunday. In addition to this I cut the top of my right thumb with my hobby knife today, and its really hard to type with a Band-Aid on it. Good thing I’m left handed.


The other day went and played a 1000pt army against the dwarf army my bro has. the game went very well by turn 4 where i had a unit of 14 warriors surrounded by my dryads and glade riders. then on turn 5 he popped his miners out behind my glade guard and began massacring them as soon as i was done with the surrounded dwarf warriors i watched in horror as his cannons took out like 6 models in 2 shots :smallfurious: . barely won the game (friggun core units cost like 12pts minimum). lesson learned: spread out forces are better and dont commit all your guys to one combat.


12 points is nothing. Try playing ogres its 35 points per model, not including the gnoblars (which are largely insignificant anyway.)

[cabbagesquirrel]

After reading A LOT of the Necroscope series of books I wanted to play with the new Vampire Counts army, thus far, after playing five games I am undefeated, they are way too powerful when you are being a sneaky bastard like I often am hehe. One word...wait two...Ethereal Vampire...I call him MC Hammer...Can't touch this do do do....

When I can have terror causing, regenerating, hating giant bat vamps as rare choices, two of which can slice and dice a big unit of Ogres, well, it's fantasic.

Corpse Carts rock too!

Granted I'm using an army of proxies, I'm such a perfectionist painter, drives me nuts sometimes hehe, painting an army would take me a decade!

[cabbagesquirrel]

After reading A LOT of the Necroscope series of books I wanted to play with the new Vampire Counts army, thus far, after playing five games I am undefeated, they are way too powerful when you are being a sneaky bastard like I often am hehe. One word...wait two...Ethereal Vampire...I call him MC Hammer...Can't touch this do do do....

When I can have terror causing, regenerating, hating giant bat vamps as rare choices, two of which can slice and dice a big unit of Ogres, well, it's fantasic.

Corpse Carts rock too!

Granted I'm using an army of proxies, I'm such a perfectionist painter, drives me nuts sometimes hehe, painting an army would take me a decade!

[Theork]

Ahhhh dark elves.... we suck somethin' fierce. Until our update, anyways.

I dis-agree, I know a very successfull Dark Elf army that I just can't seem to beat.... With the witch elves and bolt throwers an all.
Your large template death spell also isn't that bad.

[CHASE THE HERO]

TheThan:
Try playing ogres its 35 points per model, not including the gnoblars

that is true i suppose... well anyways i did just get the paycheck in recently and spent some on the male spellsinger and a few more waywatchers. one of the few complaints i do have about the wood elves is the inability to even be able to upgrade to a light amour save. i suppose moving out of charge range and shooting at enemy ranged units and cannons will have to do *sigh*. BTW has anyone elst thought that WH miniatures would make some BA D&D figures?

[Erloas]

Its been a while since I've got to play. Since I moved from Phoenix I haven't yet found any new players. I'm getting my brother into the game but so far he is really slow about even putting things together, let alone painting them.

He probably has between 750-1000 points worth of Tomb Kings, though he hasn't actually made a list yet to see for sure.

I just ordered some Vampire Counts, the only problem is that they were able to get me everything except the vampires I ordered... So I have probably 750 points worth of zombies, skeletons, and wolfs and no vampires to lead them. Right now they are still all on the spurs though because I've been putting together my Battletech 'Mechs first.

If anyone happens to be in southwest Wyoming and wants to play either Warhammer or Battletech then send me a PM.


TheThan how are you planning on running your ogres at larger points? The few times I've seen them ran people always make the units way too big so they are easily avoided or baited and too big of a target for war machines. I ran a minotuar heavy Beasts of Chaos list for a while (which should play fairly similiar to the OK) and had great luck running them as MSE (many small elites) with a few large units of cheap units for combat resolution and basically target saturation with the minotuar units.

Anyone else done tests with larger dice? One of the guys I played with in Phoenix did some experiements with the normal small dice most people use, the regular sized dice, then some of the larger square dice like are used at casinos. What he found was that there really was a noticable difference in probability between the smaller dice and the larger square dice. I always seemed to have bad luck with my small dice and I happened to have a few larger dice around and have switched to them since. The larger dice do seem to be more consistantly random, but I haven't done anything to really track it and see statistically how they compare.

[Baerdog7]

Hmm, I'm very surprised to have waited so long to post in the Warhammer thread.

Regarding dice: I've never really tried using different size dice to see how often I get certain results. I mostly just stick to the tin of GW dice that I bought when I started and hope that Sigmar (or the Chaos Gods, depending) sees fit to give me good rolls.

My big pet peeve recently has been regarding the total lack of mounted wizards in the Empire range anymore. It really is quite a large oversight on GW's part to discontinue the old 6th Ed. mounted wizards. :smallsigh:

Luckily I was able to come up with a serviceable conversion today.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/Baerdog7/IMG_2109.jpg

I took the High Elf mounted wizard and replaced the head and staff tops with Empire ones. I also removed a lot of the swirly High Elf patterns and the giant sun thing on the horse's head. What do you guys think?

[TheThan]

I finally got my game vs the LGSO (local game shop owner).

Orks vs Ogres.
The break down went like this:

Round 1
Although he finishes setting up before me, I still won the roll so I move first.

First turn I advance my big ass unit of ogre bulls (9 bulls +Tyrant) through some rough terrain, preventing me from marching. While my unit of iron guts march and do a bit of wheeling to get into position to charge into his unit of orcs (not sure what they are, they’re in-between black orcs and regular boyz). Next my lead belchers march and I try to get into position to take out his doom diver catapult. The other one moves into position to fire into his unit of black orcs (fairly big unit, seen him bring worse though). Next my unit of three maneats and the butcher advance and casts tooth cracker on my big unit of ogres in preparation for his artillery assault.
During my shooting phase I unload with two lead belchers into his doom diver, killing one crewman (most of the shots hit the catapult and didn’t do anything).

He chooses not to move anything save his black orcs and giant. He fires his doom diver into my iron guts and the goblin bounces off his armor. Next both rock lobbers fired and hit my big unit of ogres, but they didn’t do any significant damage. Finally his bolt throwers went, one fired into the unit of lead belchers that was killing the doom diver, the other fired into my other unit of lead belchers, but he missed.
During his magic phase he cast the foot of gork or whichever, the one that brings down gork’s foot and starts smashing things… I dispelled it.

Round two.
My unit of ogres continue to traverse the hindering terrain I was in. So they don’t get close enough to do anything. Next my ironguts march, and brave the dangers of one of his bolt throwers. My lead belchers charge his doom diver, the rest of the crew and taking it out of the battle. Next I advanced my other unit of lead belchers, setting it up to fire into his unit of black orcs.

On his turn he fired his bolt thrower into my lead belchers (the ones that took out the doom diver) and kills two, they fail their leadership and flee. He continues to bombard my big unit of ogre bulls which are taking the hits pretty well (think I only lost ogre out of two volleys), while his other bolt thrower misses.

Round three
While my lead blechers flee (and contiue to flee for the rest of the game), my ironguts bull charge into his unit of medium orcs (dunno what they are called), they didn’t thrash them nearly as much as I need to win that combat. While that’s going on my ogre bulls finally make it out of the rough terrain, unfortunately since they had to advance, they couldn’t charge. Next I fired into his unit of black orcs with my other unit of lead blechers, I rolled a total of 36 on the shots, only wounding 11, but that’s half his unit, unfortunately he rolls really good leadership and stays.

On his turn, he gets a TWO lucky animosity rolls and moves both units of boys up, they charge into my unit of bulls and bounce off their gut plates. Next his medium orcs or whatever they are fail their animosity roll and are stuck, allowing my ironguts to get away. His spear chuckas miss and his rock lobbers aren’t firing since his guys are in melee with mine.

Turn four
My ogre bulls lay waste to one his units of ork boyz, The other one resulted in a push. Next my unit of belchers gets thrashed by the remaining black orcs and his giant. They die. All the while my fleeing units continue to flee.

Turn five
By now things are looking kinda grim, both my flanks are crumbling and the main force of bulls has taken enough losses from artillery to make me start worrying. So getting back to it here…
My unit of ogres tear into the ork boyz with reunited vigor, forcing the remaining unit to flee, I pursue, hitting both, and wiping out both units of boyz. Unfortunately they are out of position to do anything else. Next I manage to rally my fleeing ironguts and turn them around, but the guys that were chasing them have caught up and charged them, whipping them out. I also charge his remaining unit of black orks with my unit of gnoblars I had doing nothing. They were cut down pretty readily, but I did manage to rally them with irresistible courage. He also moves his giant up close enough for me to charge him with my man eaters.

Round 6
Top of my turn, I turn my bulls around and move back to the fight, but they’re so far out that they’re not going to do any good.
My man-eaters charge the giant; they manage to deal five wounds nearly killing it. My butcher was with them, but he didn’t do any real good.

His turn he fires into the backs of my ogre bulls all his remaining artillery, hitting my tyrant for like 3 wounds (I forgot about his luck gnoblar… dang it). He then proceeds to wipe out my unit of gnoblars and beats on my butcher with his giant but doesn’t kill him.

So the game’s over. We tally up the victory points and there’s a 157-point difference between us, with him scoring more points. We look up the chart in the book and it’s a draw.



This is the army I brought:

Lords and leaders
Tyrant: 286
Tenderizer, gut maw, heavy armor, luck gnoblar, sword gnoblar

Butcher: 190
Dispel scroll, bloodcleaver, tooth gnoblars x2

Core units: 367
Bulls: (9)
light armor, standard with look out gnoblar)

Ironguts: (8) 384
No gear

Gnoblars (20):42
Groinbiter

Gnoblars: (20) 40

Lead belchers: 220
Lead belchers: 220

Man eaters: 250
One ogre: heavy armor, great weapon

Total: 1999 points

[CHASE THE HERO]

Good job TheThan. IMHO i dont really see how larger dice would supposedlly help. i do have all sorts of dice form collectors that are less than 1cm on a side and up to decent sized D&D dice which i prefer (i like tham a lot more and its easy to tell them apart from others).

[Kraggi]

A unit of nine bulls? Dayumn. I dunno, that almost seems too large to be able to wield well. But it worked, I guess? More power to ya, man.

[TheThan]

It was a bit of an experiment to see if it would work, and to be honest they just moved straight forward and soaked up hits from his rock lobbers, until they got into combat that is. Next game I think I’m going to split it into smaller units and see how that goes. I’m still testing out the ogres. I see what their strengths and weaknesses are, its just learning how to capitalize on their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

Anyway I know someone else there that wants to play me with his new VC army. I know this guy; he’s the sort that won’t play someone unless he knows he can beat ‘em. So if I decide to fight him, I basically want to beat him… badly. Usually winning is second to having a good time, but this time I really want to punk him, just because that attitude is a bit annoying.

So anyone have any good advice for beating the new VC army?

I’m thinking of taking a tyrant and three butchers, mainly for the dispel dice, and loading all my heroes up with dispel scrolls (that’s like 10 scrolls, hehe), and (try to) own the magic phase. I think if I can negate his magic, I can prevent him from raising the dead and surrounding me.

But since I really don’t know what the Vampires can do, I really don’t know what else to expect. So any help here would be appreciated.

As far as dice I like the 12mm dice blocks, you get 36 dice for like 5 bucks (more for the fancier dice). Because they’re small they tend to roll really good.
One thing I’ve noticed is that larger dice tend to not roll quite so much, and you can sort of cheese them out. There’s a certain way to roll them (more like dropping them from a short high) and they get maybe one full spin before they hit the table, and since they don’t roll well they tend to just land on whatever number was on the bottom when they hit. It’s not 100% perfect, but you can take a lot of the randomness out of it.
While I hate to call it bad sportsmanship, it is a bit on the cheese side. so to me, the smaller dice is more fair.

[Erloas]

So anyone have any good advice for beating the new VC army?

I’m thinking of taking a tyrant and three butchers, mainly for the dispel dice, and loading all my heroes up with dispel scrolls (that’s like 10 scrolls, hehe), and (try to) own the magic phase. I think if I can negate his magic, I can prevent him from raising the dead and surrounding me.

But since I really don’t know what the Vampires can do, I really don’t know what else to expect. So any help here would be appreciated.

Well I have the new VC book but I haven't yet had a chance to build an army or play any games with it. The hard thing about trying to tailor your army to his is that there are a few different ways to play the VC. VC can easily go magic heavy with the minimum of large blocks and as many heavy troops (and melee characters) as they can get. They can also go really magic heavy and try to win by horde alone. Or a balanced list of horde and heavy hitters. I think the balanced list is more dangerous but most people either go all melee or all magic. Going against OK I would expect high magic to be a more obvious choice because melee oriented lists plays to the OK's strenghts.

What you both loose is the advantages of fear, but the biggest thread to the OK is that it is going to be very hard to wipe out a large block of skeletons or zombies quickly and of course you can't cause them to run. I think in this fight the last thing you are going to want is large units, its too easy to tie up a lot of points with a unit of skeletons or zombies. A single unit against a block of skeletons or zombies will be stuck there a while, so a larger number of small units to maximize attacks and increase the opportunties for flank attacks is important. The choice of more attacks is probably going to be of more use then higher strength attacks, so take two hand weapons over great weapons. With ogres you are never going to come out ahead in static combat resolution against zombies/skeletons, but Gnoblars could stand a very good chance against zombies with a little bit of help.

Of course I don't have much experience against OK or the new VC, that is mostly just how I would look at the problem from what I know of each army.

[Were-Sandwich]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/Baerdog7/IMG_2109.jpg



Help, help, my walking stick is on fire!

[Krytha]

I also don't know much about the new VCs, but one thing you will have to account for is that Vampires deal heavily with fear and terror causing units. I'm guessing you would be looking for immune to psychology units or ones with great leadership.

As the centre piece of VC armies will be the lords, it will be important to see what that unit is designed to do. Heavy magic, heavy combat, or both - can determine how you want to go about your day. Vampires can be extreme killing machines, but if he is decking out his lord with magical items, then killing that one guy will probably mean victory. Heavy magic is a little more tricky because you will have to load up on dispel dice (hopefully in a way that doesn't cripple the rest of your army) and even then, you probably won't be able to stop everything from coming through and here picking which spells to stop are the key to victory. I dunno, advice is a bit tough because we also have no idea what kind of army/units he is likely to field - and the new VCs have a ton of options.

*edit* This link may help you get a better understanding of VC strengths and weaknesses - which is just as important as understanding your own pros/cons.
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/vampirecounts/gaming/vampires/default.htm

[Theork]

Baerdog7, it looks like the pope is riding to war!
Nice conversion, should provide a unique and nice conversion.
The simplist conversion I have ever seen is when a friend of mine bought the high elf mage hovering on rocks to make a Necrach model.
He simply sniped off the staff and put a zombie head on it and it was one of the best darn looking conversions I have seen.

[Erloas]

For what its worth I build a Vampire Counts list based on what I would bring if I where facing the OK at 2000 points. It isn't totally finalized though, I still need to pick through the upgrades and magic items for the characters a bit better and might adjust a few things to free up some points for said items. With more familiarization with the VC and a bit more time I would refine the characters down more.

vampire lord lvl 3 avatar of death, flying horror, dark acolyte, sceptre de noirot 350pts (level 4, flying, extra zombie raising power (since he will be behind the lines a lot) and HA and weapons)
vampire with skeletons avatar of death, walking death 145pts ha and weapons (bought as avatar of death, they can't take basic items as normal upgrades, walking death gives an extra +1 CR)
vampire with knights dread knight 125pts (dread knight upgrade includes nightmare, armor, lance, etc)
necromancer 55pts
core
Dire wolves x 5 40pts
Dire wolves x 5 40pts
Zombies x 25 100pts
Skeleton 20 spear, Champ, standard, music 200pts
Ghouls x 10 +champion 88pts
Ghouls x 10 +champion 88pts
special
black knights x 5 barding, champ, standard, musician 180pts
Spirit host x 3 195pts
Spirit host x 3 195pts
rare
cairn wraiths x 3 +banshee 175pts
total 1979pts

I'm really not sure on the lord, there are a lot of choices there, but he is a vampire lord and he is going to be dangerous no matter what.
The other vampires are there to reinforce the units they are with, and the knight might be changed since they aren't going to need too much help

The dire wolves would simply be to draw out the larger units of ogres, sacrifice them to pull the ogres out of the fight for a turn or two, they aren't really going to pose much of a threat to units or characters, but they could take out small gnoblar units.

zombies are to hold up a unit or two for several turns and provide static CR while other units do the killing. Not a threat on their own, they are almost useless without a supporting unit but with that supporting unit they become powerful simply for their static CR.

skeletons pose more of a threat, especially with the vampire, it serves the same purpose as the zombies but with the character it will be used more to try to shape the battlefield then anything else, try to get the enemy focused on it.

Ghouls are dangerous to ogres, lots of poisoned attacks. The bane of high T but low armored units, ie the whole OK army. They cause the wounds while skeletons or zombies provide static CR. Probably screen them with the wolves.

Black Knights are pretty straight forward.

Spirit hosts and the wraiths are going to be an issue for the OK. There are of course 2 ways to kill ethereal creatures, magic attacks and static CR, two things the OK are lacking in. With a static CR of 2 for most OK units it is going to take a long time to kill them. The banshee could cause a lot of problems too because OK are not that great in leadership.

While there is a decent amount of magic it isn't overly magic heavy. It takes too many different upgrades to get a lot of magic power. In fact as a VC player I would probably downplay magic in unknown games because most people expect a magic heavy VC army.

So that is about what I would take as VC against OK and why, for whatever help that may be.

[Baerdog7]

Baerdog7, it looks like the pope is riding to war!
Nice conversion, should provide a unique and nice conversion.
The simplist conversion I have ever seen is when a friend of mine bought the high elf mage hovering on rocks to make a Necrach model.
He simply sniped off the staff and put a zombie head on it and it was one of the best darn looking conversions I have seen.

Hey, thanks for the compliments guys. I think the best part of that conversion is that I still had enough bits left over from the Empire wizards box to make two wizards on foot! :smallbiggrin:

I'll be painting up my Empire army throughout the summer so I'll probably put up some pics for c&c as I go.

[BloodyAngel]

Ogres agains vampires? Good luck. You're at a huge disadvantage going into that one. Ogres are immune to fear, so you won't autobreak... but they're very vulnerable to losing against static CR... something most undead armies have in spades. I've played against them once as my ogres... and once as my dark elves. Both times, I was horribly outmatched.

New VC seem to lean towards being very magic heavy. They can be played other ways, certainly... but even their "casual" magic is more than most can handle. Shut it down or lose. Simple as that.

Maneaters are nice against VC... and the fact that vampires have no shooting is nice for ALL your troops. Heavy magic defense is a good way to go. Take two butchers, and dispel scrolls are your friend. Few of their spells target your troops... so getting magic resistance or the gutplate the rebounds spells isn't as useful as you think. Take magic weapons for your fighy-lords, in case of ethereal critters, and do what you can to hero-kill any time you can. Don't rely on gnoblars to do anything other than run away. Trappers are probably worth taking... fighters will fail most of their checks against fear. Despite this, gnoblar shooting can whittle down undead units that will cut down on the CR you'll have to deal with.

My suggestion is to take units of 3 and try like hell to get in combo charges to deny rank bonuses. Once they lose their rank bonus... most undead units are doomed. It can still take forever to break them all down. Your only real hope of a good, solid win is to shut down their magic and kill their general. And avoid graveguard like the plague... they're ripped. The same goes double for blood knights.

[Erloas]

Ogres agains vampires? Good luck. You're at a huge disadvantage going into that one. Ogres are immune to fear, so you won't autobreak... but they're very vulnerable to losing against static CR... something most undead armies have in spades. I've played against them once as my ogres... and once as my dark elves. Both times, I was horribly outmatched.

New VC seem to lean towards being very magic heavy. They can be played other ways, certainly... but even their "casual" magic is more than most can handle. Shut it down or lose. Simple as that.
.
.
.
My suggestion is to take units of 3 and try like hell to get in combo charges to deny rank bonuses. Once they lose their rank bonus... most undead units are doomed. It can still take forever to break them all down. Your only real hope of a good, solid win is to shut down their magic and kill their general. ...

The biggest victories I've ever had have been Doombull/minotaur heavy Beasts of Chaos lists against VC, so I don't think there is that much of a disadvantage since that will play similiar to OK. I've also played against them many many times with my Dark Elves and it isn't that hard to pull a draw, major victories are a bit more elusive because of fear though. In all cases it takes the same thing, isolating units and combined charges which is what both armies have to do to win reguardless of the army they face. Given the relatively low speed of undead and the quick speed of DE and OK that shouldn't be too hard to do.

While the VC can have a lot of magic the real trick isn't to shutting it down, but in knowing what to stop and what to let go. If you put too much into stopping their magic you won't have the troops left to handle their army. A unit of 25 zombies has the same advantages and disadvantages, and are controlled and beat the same way as 45 zombies, if they plan on going summon crazy then that just makes it that much easier to avoid all of their power and even if you never touch the unit it doesn't mean much because they are cheap.




And avoid graveguard like the plague... they're ripped. The same goes double for blood knights.

I don't see graveguard as being much of a threat to OK, they are too expensive to have a good static CR with them and while they are decent fighters they aren't going to outmatch ogres. Their biggest fighting power, killing blow, is completely useless against OK because ogres (being larger then man-sized) can't be killing blowed. I would say if you see a lot of grave guard as OK to count yourself lucky.
Blood Knights are very dangerous, but they are also painfully expensive. Considering that a unit is going to run 20% or so of their army (at 2000 pts) and has frenzy it is too easy to tie up a big part of their army. OK could sacrifice 3-4 units of gnoblars to pull them away from the fight and still come out points ahead. Its not about beating the Blood Knights, its about dening them the ability to make back their points.

[Reynak]

Greetings all, I play dark elves exclusively and have moved onto the 2nd round of the 'Ardboyz tournament. Anyone else involved in that?

[TheThan]

Yeah, I’m seriously the underdog here.
My biggest concerns are winning combat and winning the magic phase.
If I can’t dictate what spells go off and what spells get through, I’m screwed.
But if I can’t destroy his units fast enough I’m dead (err undead maybe?) as well.

So I’m thinking of using a bate-and-switch strategy.

I’m thinking of sending in my maneaters to bate him to spring the “VC trap” as I call it. (Raise dead and surround). The maneaters are really tough, immune to psychology and stubborn, so they won’t run away. Then close in with the rest of my bulls and clean house. While my butchers work on support with casting spells and dispelling his. However there is always the possibly that he won’t fall for that, so I don’t know if that’ll work.


Anti-VC army first draft

Tyrant
Sword of striking 25, beastkiller big name 20, dispel scroll 25, dispel scroll (god these things are expensive) 25
295 points

Butcher: dispel scroll x2, tooth gnoblars
190 points each (bringing three)

Bulls (3): standard, musician
135 points
Bulls (3): standard, musician
135 points
Bulls (3): standard, musician
135 points

Lead belchers (x4) 220
Lead belchers (x4 )220

gnoblar fighters 40

Scrap launcher 165
Man Eaters (x4) 320 points

Total 1995 points

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, it seems I missed this thread somehow, probably due to the amount of time I have on my hands... But that aside, I play Skaven and Tomb Kings. Or I would if I could get them all assembled and painted.

The Skaven army list I'm using is cheese. So much cheese. Guess how many Jezzails I have? And power dice, how many of those? Skaven are a lot of fun though, if only because it's very likely that most of your guns and a good deal of your magic can and will blow up in your face. Also because they can shoot into combat.

Haven't really used the kings enough to comment on them. I mostly got them for the flavour. Undead + Egyptian Myth = Win.

[Reynak]

@TheThan: ogre tyrants can take scrolls?, normally only magic users are allowed to use those.

[TheThan]

@TheThan: ogre tyrants can take scrolls?, normally only magic users are allowed to use those.

Well I just read the rules for scrolls and it looks like I can’t. hmm that really screws up my plans. Well back to the drawing board.

[Kraggi]

Two less dispell scrolls won't hurt you that much. Those gnoblars seem a little to big to be wielded well. I'd consider trying to cut point some places to get more units of 3 bulls. Coordinated charges with lots of small units of bulls will be KUH-NASTY!

[TheThan]

Yeah, still I can out right stop one spell a turn, barring irresistible force.
I thought about bringing 10, which I discovered I can't do. But it'd be super nasty.

[CHASE THE HERO]

benn surfin the net, have yall checked out the forms on www.warseer.com?

[TheThan]

The LGS is having a warhammer tournament of some sort this weekend. I don’t know if it’s 2000, or 2250 points. I haven’t decided if I’m going to attend, I need the experience but money is tight so I don’t know if I will or not.

[Alpharius]

A friend of mine plays exlusively with high elves. I play quite well against most armies, but get consistentely owned by dark elves. Any tips for me... erm... my friend?

Tips better than my brother's "don't play dark elves"!

[Erloas]

A friend of mine plays exlusively with high elves. I play quite well against most armies, but get consistentely owned by dark elves. Any tips for me... erm... my friend?

Tips better than my brother's "don't play dark elves"!

Well it would help if we knew exactly what you are having trouble with. There are a number of different ways to play both lists and depending which units are actually giving you the problem will change things. For instance if you are running a silver-helm heavy army then suggestions to defeat RXB fire is going to be mostly useless, if you are running a warmachine heavy army then harpies are a much bigger issue then if you don't have many, etc. There are some general guidelines but an idea of usual lists or usual problems would make things easier.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I'm thinking of playing either Skaven or Chaos (not ever having played WHFB before) I'm also considering Beastmen or Ogres, but I'm not sure. I love the fluff of Skaven, and obviously I like Chaos. Beastmen sound cool, and Ogres just seem awesome. I don't have much money, and I don't know who's most expensive. Suggestions? Comments?

[TheThan]

Ogres are by far the least expensive way to go; however if you’re looking for out right power, then I’d go with chaos or possibly vampire counts. Seeing as they have the newest codex’s, they’re pretty much the armies to beat.

My bro has skaven, and trust me you will spend a small fortune on minis. Besides that, skaven have to play a bit cheesy in order to be competitive. My advice is to see if you can get some demo games in and pick an army based off of what you like.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Man, I've been going over the lists, and its hard to CHOOSE. All the evil factions are so awesome. So far my favorites are the Hordes of Chaos, the Undead factions, the Skaven, the Ogres, and the Dark Elves.

[Reynak]

well if you are going to go for dark elves, they are supposedly getting a new army book/ models in August. I personally can't wait:smallcool:

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Its hard to tell by what the info on the model says, but are Dark Elf Warriors purely women? It wouldn't dissuade me from buying them, but it'd be nice to figure out that riddle.

[Koji]

Ogres are by far the least expensive way to go

That's actually untrue. A 2000pt ogre army costs about as much as any other 2000pt army. There are fewer models, but they cost a lot more money.

Seems like GW made it so that you're spending about the same amount no matter who you go with, even skaven and vc (who zerg you with tons of crappy units).

[Krytha]

As far as evil armies go, the more large monstrous units there are in the army, the more appealing it is to me. Large blocks of footsoldiers = BORING! Which is why Beasts of Chaos and Ogre Kingdoms usually have some great appeal (and models!)

[TheThan]

My bro plays skaven, and he’s spend about twice as much as I have on his force, and I have an equal sized force (well points wise).


The more options you have available to you for troops the more you’re going to end up spending.
Ogres don’t have very many options, so you don’t end up buying more and more stuff so you have all those options open to you. The more flexible your faction, the more you’ll end up spending on models.

Naturally if you buy EVERYTHNG for your faction, you’ll end up spending a lot. But its not necessary, a lot of times you can convert cheaper units into more expensive ones, thusly saving you some cash.

GW did make it so you have to spend a certain amount of money, but there are a few ways to reduce that cost.


Oh and a word of caution

Anyone who’s looking into getting ogre kingdoms, don’t buy a Tyrant model, they’re really crappy. You’re better off converting your own. (Seriously I’m really disappointed with mine, but it was a gift so I’m going keep using it).

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well, I've narrowed it down to Vampire Counts or Chaos, with a possibility of Dark Elves. The only problem with Vampire Counts is that I hear the new book for them makes them really cheap, and that they focus alot on magic (whereas their appeal to me is the undeadness, and the cheap cost (money wise)) whereas I like to focus more on the actual melee units. I mean, I could play a melee vampire counts army, but I dunno.

[Erloas]

The dark elves are a mix of both female and male. Some of the models it is hard to tell one way or the other, just too much armor in the way, and some it is very obvious. The thing about dark elf society is that everyone is either deadly or dead.

If you want a melee heavy army then Chaos is definately the way to go. Both Beasts of Chaos and Hordes of Chaos are melee oriented, though beasts has a lot more monsterous creatures. I personally like Beasts of Chaos more, but that also comes from the fact that you see them a lot less often, Hordes of Chaos are generally over-represented.

Although I wouldn't exactly call it cheap, the 25th Anniversary Beasts of Chaos box comes with 20 minotaurs and a doombull, which can be picked up for $256 at theWarStore, which makes each minotaur $12 each. That is more then the OK, but its a lot better then the normal $16 ($20 direct, I assume a 20% discount that can be found at many places) they normally run. Of course that is about 1000-1200 points and you need 2000 before you can actually use a doombull and field the army, but it is a good start. OK ogres can also be used as Chaos Ogres, which makes things a little cheaper to fill out some of the army.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well, I've always liked Khaine (in both WH and 40K) but I love having armies of the undead, and of course theres the unparalleled awesome of Viking Knights. With Dark Elves my main concern is that if I want to go for a melee centric army, they'll fall short. My main concern with Vampire Counts is that they're purportedly broken with the new book, and a melee centric Vampire Counts army would die horribly. For Chaos, its more about originality. As you've said Chaos is usually well represented as it is, and I already play Chaos in 40k.

[Erloas]

Well, I've always liked Khaine (in both WH and 40K) but I love having armies of the undead, and of course theres the unparalleled awesome of Viking Knights. With Dark Elves my main concern is that if I want to go for a melee centric army, they'll fall short. My main concern with Vampire Counts is that they're purportedly broken with the new book, and a melee centric Vampire Counts army would die horribly. For Chaos, its more about originality. As you've said Chaos is usually well represented as it is, and I already play Chaos in 40k.

Well for what it is worth, every armybook that has came out since I started playing Warhammer 3-4 years ago had players claiming it was broken and overpowered. That lasted until players learned the armies and knew what to expect. What makes them overpowered when they are first released isn't that they are too powerful, it is that the opponent doesn't really know what to expect and that is a sure way to lose. I have the new VC book and it looks like it can be hard, but so could the last VC book, but it doesn't look like it is broken. Although I would say I haven't had a chance to actually run any games with it yet.

I'm also not sure why you think a melee oriented VC army would die horribly... they don't have shooting or warmachines, all they have is magic and melee troops. Of the 7 magic spells they have 4 of them are not direct damage, they aren't going to kill your opponent, they are to heal your units, make more units, or move your units so that you have more units to melee with. Of the remaining 3 spells that do damage, one does very little damage but creates more units as well. Even a magic heavy VC army is only going to win through combat. You are also going to be hard pressed to find more then a few armies that are going to beat vampires in close combat. Given some of your normal troops like zombies are sacrifical they are still going to be vitally imporant to winning in close combat, just not on their own.


As for the DE, I've been playing them since I started collecting Warhammer. Shooting is pretty good but you aren't going to be winning many games with it, it is there to soften up your enemies a bit before you get into combat, not to take them out. My biggest use of shooting isn't to kill a lot but to shape the battlefield. Stick a block of 10rxb warriors on the field and they don't generally kill a lot but they throw a lot of dice and draw a lot of attention and the opponent will usually stay out of that area which helps break them apart to make it easier to focus on just a part of the army at a time. People are generally so worried about how many shots they get they tend to forget that they aren't really that dangerous to anything with armor or a decent toughness. They are almost guarenteed to draw more points from your enemy trying to kill them then their measily 100points is worth.

Their magic is similiar, but it can be more dangerous. I've rarely played with a magic heavy army, and even then its heavy and not as completely broken as I could make it, and I still win more often then not with a moderate level of magic. The was DE win is by outmanuvering the opponents which always leads to close combat. Movement means very little if it doesn't eventually lead to combat. The DE can be devistating in close combat, but it doesn't have to do with lots and lots of high strength hits, it has to do with pulling your enemies units apart so you can systematically wipe them out in close combat. They aren't going to be anything like Chaos where they march up and run over other units in close combat and a single unit can take on just about anything. They win combat my making sure they never fight a fair fight, you hit the enemy with 2-3 units at once and wipe them out before they even get much of a retaliation then move onto the next unit.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Hmm well, for DE, its not that I'm opposed to tactics, but more that my favored tactics involve large charges, while keeping some troops in reserve, and sending some to attack the flanks/ranged while the melee are tangled up. The Vampire Counts seem fun, but the question that comes to mind for me, is would the do as well at this kind of strategy as Chaos (who exemplify the CHARGE! mentality) I'm thinking I'll either go for Chaos or Counts, but Dark Elves are still a possibility.

[Were-Sandwich]

GW have recently suckered me back into their stupid game with the awesome that is the Zombie Pirates list in WD306. Before I go and spend loads of money on the necessary box sets, then hate myself for beign so weak-willed, does anyone have any experience with the list? Is it in anyway competitive or will I get my ass kicked?

[Erloas]

Hmm well, for DE, its not that I'm opposed to tactics, but more that my favored tactics involve large charges, while keeping some troops in reserve, and sending some to attack the flanks/ranged while the melee are tangled up. The Vampire Counts seem fun, but the question that comes to mind for me, is would the do as well at this kind of strategy as Chaos (who exemplify the CHARGE! mentality) I'm thinking I'll either go for Chaos or Counts, but Dark Elves are still a possibility.

Well there really isn't anyone else who does a mindless charge like Chaos. It is kind of their thing. GW has gone out of their way to make each army play differently and as such I wouldn't expect to see too many other armies do the same thing well. Though Bretonnians are the pinacle of the straight-forward charge. Orcs are also pretty good at it, but the goblins aren't so it splits the army's focus to some extent.

I really don't think the VC will have much of a problem doing it either, but I haven't got to actually play the army to see how well it might work. I could very easily see a successful VC army with just the base magic inherient in each vampire and not upgrading it much or at all. Units like the black knights and blood knights are going to mow stuff down, and the zombies and skeletons are melee units and generally are very straight forward in function, but they don't have a lot of killing power on their own, they just control combat while others do the killing.

[Trond Forgelighter]

today I learned the value of runesmiths/lords.

I am a dwarf player and i was fighting a goblin and empire combo in a 2,500 point game. We looked pretty outnumbered but he had some bad animosity rolls so it didn't seem like we would be swamped. what Killed us outright was the magic phase we had no runelird or runesmiths so we had only two dispell dice, the goblin player had 4 shamans and 5 magic mushrooms. He cast warpath of gork with double 6's 3 times in the battle and rolled 6's on the number of wound all but one time. he killed our lord with a casting of mork wants you. and negated a great setup we had with the rune of slowness with some waaagh magic.

My question is, is the best solution just taking a whole bunch of runesmiths or should i split my thunderers into smaller groups so that i can kill his shamans faster.

[Kraggi]

You should have been getting 4 dispell dice, as you are a dwarf. A runesmith or two with a nice runic weapon will work just fine and will be almost as good as a thane.

[Erloas]

today I learned the value of runesmiths/lords.

I am a dwarf player and i was fighting a goblin and empire combo in a 2,500 point game. We looked pretty outnumbered but he had some bad animosity rolls so it didn't seem like we would be swamped. what Killed us outright was the magic phase we had no runelird or runesmiths so we had only two dispell dice, the goblin player had 4 shamans and 5 magic mushrooms. He cast warpath of gork with double 6's 3 times in the battle and rolled 6's on the number of wound all but one time. he killed our lord with a casting of mork wants you. and negated a great setup we had with the rune of slowness with some waaagh magic.

My question is, is the best solution just taking a whole bunch of runesmiths or should i split my thunderers into smaller groups so that i can kill his shamans faster.

As Kraggi said, as a dwarf you have 4 dispel dice base instead of the normal 2. The best solution is really a combination of the two. You don't need to have every character be a runesmith, but having at least 1 (or 2 at that many points) is pretty much a given. Having several units that are capable of killing magic users is a very good idea too. I don't know the new dwarf army very well but I'm sure they have a few other things to handle magic users as well. Without a good stack of dispel dice (and even with them) you should have some mage hunting units ready and waiting.

Of course in that particular situation, as I'm sure you are aware, if they are getting lucky with irrestiable force there is nothing you can do even with 10 dispel scrolls and 20 dispel dice. There are a few days when things just don't go right with the dice (or go too well for your opponent) and there really isn't much to be done about that. If you didn't have at least one goblin head explode then the odds were just against you today.

One thing that takes a while to learn, especially if you don't know any army book very well, is to know which spells will have a big impact on you and which won't (some are just much more effective against some armies then others) and learn which spells need to be stopped and which can be let through.

There are also a lot of small but imporant rules people often miss if they aren't paying attention or are intentionally "forgetting" to cheat if the opponent doesnt know any better. I've seen it go both ways too much to say which way it is sometimes. Like the mushrooms have to use a seperate die because if they come up 1 its bad for the shaman no matter what the other dice are. Thats the sort of rule that is often forgot in the middle of a game. (I'm pretty sure that is the rule at least, I don't have the O&G book at hand to verify, but I remember it being something like that) Or forgetting that Dwarfs get 4 dispel dice base.


As a side, I've never had good luck with mixed armies, they just don't work right. Some combinations are very lacking and other combinations fill in the weaknesses built into each army and make them overly powerful. It is also hard to decide how to build the army fairly because two 1250 point armies working together ends up looking a lot different then a single 2500 point army. For instance at 2500 points there should have been a total of 4 characters, you mentioned they had 4 shaman which would leave 0 characters left for the empire, which was probably not the case. At 1250 though they could each bring up to 3 characters, which would be 6 for them and 4 for you. They could also have up to 6 special choices to your 4. Yes, goblins have a special rule letting them take an additional character if they are all goblins but in this case that wouldn't work becuase the empire person had characters as well and would negate the downfall of that requirement. The reason they allow the extra character is because goblins make very poor leaders/generals and have low LD making it a big issue to bring only goblin leaders, especially shaman, of course that penalty is completely neglected if the empire player brings any character along.

I know sometimes it is unavoidable to have to have 1 vs 2, but if its an option the games turn out a lot better at 2 games of 1v1 then a single game of 2v2.

[Kraggi]

Ah, little addendum, dwarves don't have a whoooole lot for wizard hunting as everything is super slow unless you bring in dogs of war or Gyrocopters. I've found gyrocopters to always be somewhat meh. They have their shining moments, but I would think that a unit of dogs of war fast cavalry would work better for you. Dogs of war rules are online, and you can get a unit of fast cavalry with spears and bows for not too many points, but it'll use up a rare slot. Of course, thats only really bad if you've got two flame cannons to use up those rare slots. I think that a unit of fast cavalry is better than an organ gun, but that's just personal opinion there.

[TheThan]

Ogre battle report 2000 points


Battle one
Ogres vs Vampire Counts

This battle was against the resident VC player; he’s very good. In fact he’s placed in official GW tournaments. He’s been playing VC for a while now, though this was his first game with the new codex.

During deployment he manages to get a vampire in behind my ogres and prevents me from marching all my units forward. During my turn I move a unit of iron guts and lead belchers up his flank to go swing around and come from behind. While the bulk of my forces march forward intending to engage him (I hoped to catch his major units in a pincer attack). I fire off a few magic missile attacks at that annoying vampire, failing to kill it. I realized I put my second unit of lead belchers in a stupid spot, so I redressed ranks and tried to get them where they would do some good.


His first turn he immediately tries to raise some undead behind me, well I didn’t want that so I dispelled it with my one and only scroll. He tries to fill out his ranks with a crap load of zombies and whatnot, doesn’t do too well with his casting that turn and I manage to dispel a couple of spells.

Next turn I charge with two units of bulls, the first into some zombies, that I nearly wipe out. The second group charged into some skeletons (that were much tougher). I tried to kill the vampire he had in it, but I just fail to do so (needed two wounds, only could score one. And they can heal!), I guess my bruiser just wasn’t up to the challenge. While this is going on I once again try to snipe that annoying vampire behind me and once again fail to do so. Either I’m getting dispelled or I’m outright missing. I also continue to move up my ironguts and my lead belchers to try to get behind him.
During his turn he moves some of his undead about, and tries to slug it out with my ogres that are already engaged. He also tries to raise some undead to fill his ranks. And raise some in my back. He fails to raise the ones behind me, and doesn’t get too many (at least not enough to worry me at that point) undead raised in the units I was engaged with.

The third and last turn things were starting to go bad.

First off I fail to kill both units of undead and that vampire. I was engaged with and my opponent saw that I was trying to out flank him, so he arranged some undead up there to deal with that. I lost combat with the unit of skeletons I was fighting, and they broke, and were caught by one of his units and wiped out. But my other ironguts were in position to stop him from overrunning my flank. He raises a huge amount of zombies in the unit my other bulls were trying to wipe out.
During his turn he manages to charge my butcher with some big monster dog thingy. But he doesn’t kill him. That about ended the game.
So while my right flank was crumbling I managed to keep him from surrounding me and crushing me. Although he did win via victory points, but I didn’t give up that much.

This guy is not the guy that wanted to play me earlier, he played the new demons of chaos, and managed to win all his games (even against the vc player I played).

The other two games I had were so bad I don’t even want to recount them. I played a senario that played right to the skaven’s advantage, and I got wasted before I got close enough to do anything.

And the next game was against bretonia, I was so demoralized and tired that I just screwed up big time on that one and got crushed.

[TheThan]

GW have recently suckered me back into their stupid game with the awesome that is the Zombie Pirates list in WD306. Before I go and spend loads of money on the necessary box sets, then hate myself for beign so weak-willed, does anyone have any experience with the list? Is it in anyway competitive or will I get my ass kicked?

I’ve got a better idea,

Instead of getting into this stupid game, you should look into getting into this stupid game (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/default.php)

Its got both undead (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=60) and living (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=356) pirates.

Arrr!

sorry for the double post... should have read this thread before posting... oh well.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well I just got some Vampire Counts. I have two squads of Skeletons and a Necromancer. I would have gotten a Wight Lord or a Vampire and some Ghouls instead of the Mancer and the second squad of Skellies, but the place didnt have either of those (although he did have some Grave Guard, but I was already borrowing money, and couldn't afford the extra couple of bucks. Sad I know)

[Were-Sandwich]

I’ve got a better idea,

Instead of getting into this stupid game, you should look into getting into this stupid game (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/default.php)

Its got both undead (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=60) and living (http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=356) pirates.

Arrr!

sorry for the double post... should have read this thread before posting... oh well.

I've heard of WARMACHINE. Unfortunately, no one else in my area has. England is pretty much GW-central, so my choice of games is severely restricted by what other people are willing to play. It sucks, to say the least.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I've heard of WARMACHINE. Unfortunately, no one else in my area has. England is pretty much GW-central, so my choice of games is severely restricted by what other people are willing to play. It sucks, to say the least.

Yea, for me the problem is that the nearest hobby shop is on the other side of the city, so I don't get to go there often. I'm gunna try going more, but it'll be hard to make it that many times.

[thedavo]

today I learned the value of runesmiths/lords.

I am a dwarf player and i was fighting a goblin and empire combo in a 2,500 point game. We looked pretty outnumbered but he had some bad animosity rolls so it didn't seem like we would be swamped. what Killed us outright was the magic phase we had no runelird or runesmiths so we had only two dispell dice, the goblin player had 4 shamans and 5 magic mushrooms. He cast warpath of gork with double 6's 3 times in the battle and rolled 6's on the number of wound all but one time. he killed our lord with a casting of mork wants you. and negated a great setup we had with the rune of slowness with some waaagh magic.

My question is, is the best solution just taking a whole bunch of runesmiths or should i split my thunderers into smaller groups so that i can kill his shamans faster.

did he have any orc shamans?
Goblin shamans can only take spells from the Little Waaagh!, so they don;t have access to Gork's warpath. They do have foot of Gork (d6 s6 hits, but no what happens next roll). And Mork Wants Ya! against dwarf characters is nasty.

did he just have shamans as characters? i hate playing against magic-heavy armies, i find it boring.

[Trond Forgelighter]

did he have any orc shamans?
Goblin shamans can only take spells from the Little Waaagh!, so they don;t have access to Gork's warpath. They do have foot of Gork (d6 s6 hits, but no what happens next roll). And Mork Wants Ya! against dwarf characters is nasty.

did he just have shamans as characters? i hate playing against magic-heavy armies, i find it boring.

no he said he had two goblin great shamans and 2 regular shamans.

We are probably going to have a game every Saturday or so. Next week we might be doing 3,000 so I'm making a proxy runelord and getting a runesmith, I'm thinking rune of balance, a couple runes of spellbreaking and banner of valaya should hold off his magic long enough for our thunderes, which i will probably break into smaller groups for shaman killing, to finish him off. If it weren't for that we would have won.

by the way what level caster are goblin shamans or great shamans, and do great shamans have access to big waagh?

Thanks for your help so far

[Kraggi]

....He shouldnt have been able to do that. In 2,500 points you can only have one lord, and he bought two. Great shamans are level 3 or 4, and lil ones are 1 or 2. Goblin great shamans can still only use little waaagh. The person you're playing seems to need a little rules refresher on these things...