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View Full Version : Arcane Trickster vs. Unseen Seer & Quickest Paths



KoDT69
2007-12-28, 01:12 PM
What are the quickest ways to get into Arcane Trickster and Unseen Seer?
What are he major differences in the 2? I heard US was much better...
What's up with Practiced Spellcaster? It doesn't incrtease spell access, just compensates CL for multiclassed characters. Is it worth it?

I'm looking at this choice starting with Rogue as the base concept and filling the Rogue and Arcane Caster roles in the campaign. I have only 3 players in my current campaign due to work schedule changes, so we have a Fighter, a CLeric, and this last one we're rebuilding to fill 2 roles.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-12-28, 02:05 PM
Wiz5 is the quickest way to get the 3rd level arcane spells for Arcane Trickster.

I perfer AT to Unseen Seer because I don't like the penalty to caster level on all non-Divination spells, but YMMV.

Typically, AT isn't too good at being a 'party caster' because of the extra focus on the sneaky stuff. I'd suggest being the best skillmonkey with an awsome bag of tricks with Sorc6 and picking up spells like Knock and Shatter and either Melf's Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray for sneak attacking with.

Kaelik
2007-12-28, 02:09 PM
What are the quickest ways to get into Arcane Trickster and Unseen Seer?
What are he major differences in the 2? I heard US was much better...
What's up with Practiced Spellcaster? It doesn't incrtease spell access, just compensates CL for multiclassed characters. Is it worth it?

I'm looking at this choice starting with Rogue as the base concept and filling the Rogue and Arcane Caster roles in the campaign. I have only 3 players in my current campaign due to work schedule changes, so we have a Fighter, a CLeric, and this last one we're rebuilding to fill 2 roles.

It greatly depends on what you are trying to build. But for best SA damage on spells, and best spell access the answer is either:

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5

or

Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 4

In either of these builds Practiced Spellcaster is amazing, because Unseen Seer increases Divination CL, but penalizes others, but with Practiced Spellcaster, you can maintain full CL for all other spells, and increased Divination Caster level.

Keld Denar
2007-12-28, 02:09 PM
The end results are rather similar, depending on what you want to emphasize on. Entry into US is faster, requiring only a single rogue level and a few wizard levels to get into. It makes an excellent stepping stone for a caster focused trickster.

There is a trick with the halfling rogue sub levels from RotW I think. It costs you a die of melee sneak attack, but adds a die of ranged sneak attack. That nets you 2d6 ranged sneak attack at rog1, which meets that prereq of AT. The problem with this is, you still have to meet the HIGH skill requirements of AT, so you have to take a few levels of rogue anyway, or have able learner and a high int.

A good standard build would be

rog1>wiz4>US2>AT10>something3...maybe archmage.

You only lose 2 caster levels, which nets you 9th level spells at 19. You have plenty of skills to meet the prereqs, 7d6 sneak attack, and pick up a handy bonus divination spell from US. Hunter's Eye comes highly recommended, as it gives you CL/3 more sneak attack and is persistable at really high levels. Divine Insight is also common, as is Sniper Shot.

Practiced Spellcaster is generally a good idea. CL affects a variety of things, such as range, duration, damage dice, and penetrating SR. Its up to you to determine if the spells you've selected are dependant enough on CL to make up the loss.