PDA

View Full Version : Archmages or do they say the truth.



Emperor Demonking
2007-12-28, 01:39 PM
How many of your wizards at high enough levels take this class?

How many of you archmages have teleport as SLA.

Amiria
2007-12-28, 01:47 PM
Almost all.

Few, Shapechange and Time Stop are more popular choices.

Saph
2007-12-28, 02:12 PM
How many of your wizards at high enough levels take this class?

None so far. The abilities are good, but the pre-requisites are annoying and I don't like giving up spell slots. There are other prestige classes out there which are a lot easier to fit a character into.


How many of you archmages have teleport as SLA.

Give up a fifth-level slot, and then another fifth-level slot . . . to get the ability to cast a fifth-level spell twice a day? No, thanks.

- Saph

Worira
2007-12-28, 02:18 PM
You don't give up spell slots to take archmage, just to take the SLA. And he obviously meant greater teleport, so it's a 5th and a 7th for two 7ths.

And in core, I pretty much always take archmage.

ALOR
2007-12-28, 02:21 PM
I'm one level away from taking my 1st elvel of Archmage. I'm really lookin forward to it.

Indon
2007-12-28, 02:25 PM
No. There's not much of a reason to prestige a Wizard unless you're doing it for story purposes.

Kaelik
2007-12-28, 02:28 PM
1) about 3/4ths. Arcane Reach alone is worth it.

2) None ever for any reason. However, every single one that doesn't already have ten levels of Ur-Priest takes Greater Teleport once. Next three levels go to Shapechange/Timestop/Ect.

mostlyharmful
2007-12-28, 02:59 PM
Arcane reach is a killer at high levels, if I'm not building something specific and feat intensive I always take a level just for that. As for the SLA I've never taken Greater Teleport but it makes sense, I've always prefered shapechange since you can use it to get hold of a genies supernatural (not spell-like) planeshift ability at will amoung thousands of other borked and funny uses.

Scorpina
2007-12-28, 03:10 PM
I mostly have my wizards go more towards Loremaster than Archmage, because Loremaster is cool. I don't think, though, that I'd take (Greater Teleport) as a SLA even if I did make an Archmage, though.

Mad Wizard
2007-12-28, 03:33 PM
No. There's not much of a reason to prestige a Wizard unless you're doing it for story purposes.

Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

Indon
2007-12-28, 03:40 PM
Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

Zenos
2007-12-28, 03:41 PM
Actually, it's a very good idea to prestige a wizard. If you pick a full casting progression PrC, you lose only a couple of bonus feats and your familiar progression in exchange for all the nifty abilities you get from the PrC.

Like IoTSV. That one's scary. Seriously scary.

Scorpina
2007-12-28, 03:45 PM
You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

While you might not need them desperately, you've got to look at it from the other angle. If what you're losing in exchange for them is pretty much negligable, and they have full casting progression, why on Earth (or Toril, or Eberron...) wouldn't you want them?

Hallavast
2007-12-28, 04:06 PM
It's 50/50. You need three prereq. feats that I normally wouldn't take, plus the two bonus feats you lose from being a wizard. In addition you must give up several high-level spell slots.

Technically, you could take 5 metamagic feats as a wizard and replicate some of the abilites from the class instead, and you'd have a very similar build.

Therefore, taking Archmage is about as powerful as taking more levels in wizard (which is to say; extremely overpowered). :smallwink:

marjan
2007-12-28, 06:08 PM
I mostly have my wizards go more towards Loremaster than Archmage, because Loremaster is cool. I don't think, though, that I'd take (Greater Teleport) as a SLA even if I did make an Archmage, though.

Though I never played wizard high level enough for any of them I prefer Loremaster too. Though I hate the picture in DMG (pregnant girl - WTF?).

Collin152
2007-12-28, 06:18 PM
You're already a full caster. What do you need other abilities for?

Casting better spells? Being even better? Pwning all? not pwning yourself for being unprepared?

Bag_of_Holding
2007-12-28, 06:24 PM
1) Only one out of two. One went Pale Master.

2) Nah, it was a 19th-level campaign, and I decided to put Time Stop for a good use.

Scorpina
2007-12-28, 09:18 PM
Though I never played wizard high level enough for any of them I prefer Loremaster too. Though I hate the picture in DMG (pregnant girl - WTF?).

Yeah, I'm not big on the picture either. Mind you, I thought she was just fat..

Enlong
2007-12-29, 12:04 AM
Give up a fifth-level slot, and then another fifth-level slot . . . to get the ability to cast a fifth-level spell twice a day? No, thanks.

- Saph

A useful 5th level spell that you can never again be caught not having prepared, that no longer requires a spell book to cast, etc, etc. Anything higher is just awesome (a 9th and a 5th to always have a 9th level spell of your choice ready twice a day, for instance)

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-12-29, 12:22 AM
I take Floating Disc as my SLA every time, personally. It's easily the best spell in core, if not all D&D, so getting it two times a day only makes sense.
I don't usually go wizard, though. Being a powergamer, I prefer the Samurai.

Gralamin
2007-12-29, 12:24 AM
I take Floating Disc as my SLA every time, personally. It's easily the best spell in core, if not all D&D, so getting it two times a day only makes sense.
I don't usually go wizard, though. Being a powergamer, I prefer the Samurai.

The amount of sarcasm dripping from this hurts.

TheOOB
2007-12-29, 12:26 AM
Unless I have another PrC i need to complete, or I really can't spare the feats, I always go archmage.

spell power and arcane reach are usually givens with me, sometimes I even double up on my arcane reach. I typically also make an effort to get a teleport spell as a SLA, so I can always escape to my haven(where my primary set of spellbooks are), if it's allowed, celerity is a good contended for a SLA(and since it's low level you can get alot of them). Other then that I try and pick up what would have been useful up to this point, even arcane fire can be useful in the right campaign.

Kaelik
2007-12-29, 12:58 AM
A useful 5th level spell that you can never again be caught not having prepared, that no longer requires a spell book to cast, etc, etc. Anything higher is just awesome (a 9th and a 5th to always have a 9th level spell of your choice ready twice a day, for instance)

Yeah, but why Teleport when you can get Greater Teleport for a 5th and a 7th. I'll take the greater version, thanks.

Collin152
2007-12-29, 01:11 AM
Plus, using it for teleport is dreadfully inneficiant; you give up two 5th level slots for two uses of a fifth level spell. Just prepare it, hm?
Greater teleport is a whole 'nother animal, though.

Patashu
2007-12-29, 01:37 AM
Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...


A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell

So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

TheOOB
2007-12-29, 02:16 AM
Plus you can use an 8th level spell slot instead of a 5th to gain 4 teleports as SLA instead of 2, which gives you much more inter-dimensional travel freedom.

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-29, 05:49 AM
So is teleport and greater teleport not that common..

Saph
2007-12-29, 08:06 AM
Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...

So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

Yes, but think of all you're giving up for that. You need three feats to qualify for the class, two of which are mediocre and the third of which is flat-out useless. Then you're also permanently reducing your flexibility. 5th-level spells are powerful, and if your party's in the middle of a dangerous fight a couple of extra 5th-level spells makes a difference.

I wouldn't consider doing it for Greater Teleport, either, because 7th-level spells are even better than 5th-level ones. The 'teleport as SLA' comes up a lot on these boards because it features in elaborate contingency plans - "hey, even though I'm naked, blind, one-legged, and without my spellbook, I can still escape!" Thing is, in my experience, most enemies that fight you don't bother with trying to capture you and take away all your equipment. They just kill you instead.

The only Archmage SLA I'd be willing to give up spell slots for would be something that's so, so, good that I'd know that I'd always have a good use for it, every single day, no matter where we were and no matter what we were doing. Off the top of my head the only spell I can think that qualifies for that is Time Stop.

- Saph

mostlyharmful
2007-12-29, 08:26 AM
The only Archmage SLA I'd be willing to give up spell slots for would be something that's so, so, good that I'd know that I'd always have a good use for it, every single day, no matter where we were and no matter what we were doing. Off the top of my head the only spell I can think that qualifies for that is Time Stop.

Yes. and unfortunately spells that good (I'd add Shapechage to Time Stop) are so over the top good they qualify as cheese in most campaigns I've seen, even at this higher level and are often banned.

Zenos
2007-12-29, 09:09 AM
Sure, but when you turn two slots into two shots at an SLA you get...



So that's a free Still Silent. And you don't have to prepare it/require the materials neccesary to prepare it should they be stolen or lost, right?

Ooo, I am a bit lazy today, so I don't look it up, but would that mean Wish could be... ?:smallsmile:

Cuddly
2007-12-29, 09:10 AM
Ooo, I am a bit lazy today, so I don't look it up, but would that mean Wish could be... ?:smallsmile:

Yes. An sp that costs 5000 xp.

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-29, 09:15 AM
To get to the second part.

Do you normally play with one continious plot or unrelated adventures?

Zenos
2007-12-29, 09:22 AM
Yes. An sp that costs 5000 xp.


A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell

Emphasis added.

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-29, 09:31 AM
Its in the archmage description.

Cuddly
2007-12-29, 09:45 AM
Emphasis added.

Um, ok? What does that have to do with the archmage's ability?

Talya
2007-12-29, 09:51 AM
Emphasis added.



Hot damn. Wish. For free? twice a day?

In just over a week, you have +5 to all ability scores, and can cast spontaneously all wizard spells up to level 7, and all other spells up to level 6...

Talya
2007-12-29, 09:54 AM
Um, ok? What does that have to do with the archmage's ability?

Oh thank Mystra...the Archmage SLA is not a standard SLA...for a minute he had me worried.

Emperor Demonking
2007-12-29, 09:57 AM
Though a spell that cost xp to cast still does - l 11 - c2 pg 179

Crow
2007-12-29, 05:12 PM
Can you use metamagic rods with SLA's? If so, foresight may be worth taking.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-12-29, 05:21 PM
Can you use metamagic rods with SLA's? If so, foresight may be worth taking.

No, however there are some feats built specifically to augmenting SLA's...

Check out the Monster Manual. Quicken SLA and Empower SLA are both there (Pg 303 and 304 respectively). They're basically Metamagic Rods for your SLA's!

CactusAir
2007-12-30, 07:52 AM
Just Reach and SLAs? Doesn't anyone take shaping? It seems quite good to me.

Saph
2007-12-30, 09:50 AM
Just Reach and SLAs? Doesn't anyone take shaping? It seems quite good to me.

It is. You get to fire lethal AoE spells into the middle of combats right around your allies (though giving up a 6th-level slot hurts). Spell Power is good too.

- Saph

Arbitrarity
2007-12-30, 10:45 AM
Matery of Shaping: For all your instantaneous battlefield control needs, or hope your allies don't have to move.

ghost_warlock
2007-12-30, 11:38 AM
I've played a variety of high-level arcane spellcasters (mostly wizards), but I don't have any current characters at all. :smallfrown:

I rarely go archmage, though. I typically specialize in one school or another and try to find a PrC that emphasizes my choice of specialty. I suppose in a core-only game I might go archmage, but I'd probably end up with a loremaster, instead.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-12-30, 11:41 AM
Oh thank Mystra...the Archmage SLA is not a standard SLA...for a minute he had me worried.

That's why you take dweomerkeeper :smallamused:.

Zenos
2007-12-30, 11:43 AM
That's why you take dweomerkeeper :smallamused:.

Which book is that one in? What does it do?

Arbitrarity
2007-12-30, 11:47 AM
CDivine web enhancement (I.e. free online, at WoTC site), and it gets to turn spells into Su abilities a few times per day. As well as spontaneously cast around 5 spells of choice, and gets -1 adjustment on metamagic (minimum 1). However, it requires arcane and divine spellcasting, which, for a cleric, is sidestepped by the "magical training" feat, I think from Faerun.

obvious pun
2007-12-30, 02:22 PM
I have just one question...

If you were to spend a spell slot or two on one of these archmage abilities, would it not be possible to just cast wish to re-obtain said spell slot(s) while keeping your new archmage ability? I mean really, it's a spell capable of bringing back the dead and increasing your ability scores, among other things. Why shouldn't it give you spell slots to spend on archmage abilities?

This just seems like one of those things that I believe should be pointed out.

Arbitrarity
2007-12-30, 02:26 PM
Because who wants to spend 5K xp on a spell slot? Total waste. Just pick up a pearl of power, or level into epic.