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GoC
2007-12-28, 02:08 PM
...Does it take to kill a elder air elemental (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm) with divine rank 0 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0)?:smallbiggrin:

This guy's immune to your normal tricks.:smallwink:

DvR 0 gives a host of immunities, fire resistance 5, SR 32 and maximum hitpoints per hitdie.
Ignore the SR for the purpose of this thread.

Cage match is in a 3000ft cube. No Pun-Pun's allowed.

Thinker
2007-12-28, 02:18 PM
This guy's immune to your normal tricks.:smallwink:

What are "the normal tricks"?

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-12-28, 02:21 PM
One eighth level PC with a divine rank of 1 should do it pretty nicely.

Indon
2007-12-28, 02:23 PM
Well, this is the list of what a Divine Rank 0 would be immune to:



Immunities
Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.

Transmutation
A deity is immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters its form. Any shape-altering powers the deity might have work normally on itself.

Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage
A deity is not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage.

Mind-Affecting Effects
A deity is immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Also, DR 10/Epic, Fire Resistance 5, SR 32.

Kaelik
2007-12-28, 02:24 PM
The correct answer is 1, Pun-Pun. Or maybe a diplomancer.

Nothing else, because Divine Rank 0 gives infinite usages of at least 3 ninth level spells. Infinite. Wail of Banshee once per round. Not to mention all the buffs he would cast (since of course, no reason to not cast buffs, given that he has infinite usage of attacks spells.)

EDIT: Hey, no fair with the editing.

Triaxx
2007-12-28, 02:39 PM
1 FR Bartender 8. All damage he does is counted as Epic, and he uses a +5 Greataxe of 'Playing the odds'. It always does 12 damage+ enhancements.

Indon
2007-12-28, 02:58 PM
The correct answer is 1, Pun-Pun. Or maybe a diplomancer.

Nothing else, because Divine Rank 0 gives infinite usages of at least 3 ninth level spells. Infinite. Wail of Banshee once per round. Not to mention all the buffs he would cast (since of course, no reason to not cast buffs, given that he has infinite usage of attacks spells.)

EDIT: Hey, no fair with the editing.

I don't think Divine Rank 0 gives that.

Divine Rank gives infinite usage of spells the deity can grant. Rank 0 deities can not grant spells. They also don't get divine auras or stuff like that.

GoC
2007-12-28, 03:10 PM
I don't think Divine Rank 0 gives that.

Divine Rank gives infinite usage of spells the deity can grant. Rank 0 deities can not grant spells. They also don't get divine auras or stuff like that.

Correct.
DvR 0 just gives a host of immunities, fire resistance 5 and maximum hitpoints per hitdie. Elementals already have DR 10/- which is much better than DR 10/epic. Almost everything else has a minimum DvR requirement of 1. Pretend for the sake of the argument that it doesn't get SR 32...
Thinker: Ability drain. Flying around and plinking with a wand until it dies.

Indon
2007-12-28, 03:35 PM
Thinker: Ability drain. Flying around and plinking with a wand until it dies.

Anything with a base speed of 105 or more and the ability to use a wand (with a ray attack to avoid SR) could kill it, I'd say.

Monk 6 could give us +20 to our speed (Alternately, any ECL 6 or less thing which could grant arbitrary uses of Expeditious Retreat). Barbarian 1 for another +10. Dash for another +5, we dip into Tome of Incarnum and take two incarnum feats, one of them being the Incarnum version of Dash (a feat which name I forget, sadly), which gives us another +10 when we invest all our essentia into it.

Hmm. Given a base speed 30 race, that only gives us a base speed of 75 (85 with expeditious retreat). Need a bit more to confidently kite it to death.

Yami
2007-12-28, 03:37 PM
So.. I'm thinking a shadow templated rouge with an elemantal bane bow and an unending quiver of arrows. Using the spring attack for bows feat tree he should be able to try plinking the thing to death.

Of course, the real trick here would be boosting his hide check so as to never get spotted by that nasty +29 bonus the elemental has.

Perhaps if we make him a goblin? hmm +4 stats, +4 racial, +10 cloak of hiding, +9 ranks, +2 mastercraft item... and we merely equal the thing as we're using our +20 bonus from the shadow template to counterbalance the -20 for attacking.

I suppose I'm out of ideas.

Indon
2007-12-28, 03:39 PM
So.. I'm thinking a shadow templated rouge with an elemantal bane bow and an unending quiver of arrows. Using the spring attack for bows feat tree he should be able to try plinking the thing to death.

Of course, the real trick here would be boosting his hide check so as to never get spotted by that nasty +29 bonus the elemental has.

Perhaps if we make him a goblin? hmm +4 stats, +4 racial, +10 cloak of hiding, +9 ranks, +2 mastercraft item... and we merely equal the thing as we're using our +20 bonus from the shadow template to counterbalance the -20 for attacking.

I suppose I'm out of ideas.

Distance. Every 10 feet is a -1 to a spot check to see it. If you're 400 feet away, you not only make up for the -20 sniping penalty, but you're at a +20 advantage.

Problem, however: Air elementals are invisible.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-28, 03:41 PM
1 Wizard with solid fog and spheres, or one rogue with idem scrolls or wands. Easy. NEXT!

Indon
2007-12-28, 03:43 PM
1 Wizard with solid fog and spheres, or one rogue with idem scrolls or wands. Easy. NEXT!

Whirlwind form destroys a solid fog in 1 round (Edit: Because a tornado is going to have more than 31 MPH wind). Your wizard/rogue is very much dead.

MeklorIlavator
2007-12-28, 03:45 PM
Distance. Every 10 feet is a -1 to a spot check to see it. If you're 400 feet away, you not only make up for the -20 sniping penalty, but you're at a +20 advantage.

Problem, however: Air elementals are invisible.


See Invisibility

Divination
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D)

You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible. Such creatures are visible to you as translucent shapes, allowing you easily to discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures.

The spell does not reveal the method used to obtain invisibility. It does not reveal illusions or enable you to see through opaque objects. It does not reveal creatures who are simply hiding, concealed, or otherwise hard to see.

See invisibility can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Material Component: A pinch of talc and a small sprinkling of powdered silver.
A couple of these potions should do the trick.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-28, 03:46 PM
Recast. Easy. Or Resilient sphere on self until the whirlwind runs out, then dispel magic. Or heck, do the sane thing and create a rope trick, and pop in and out to pepper the guy. Cage match, can't leave except via magic. If that's banned, I can think of other. Like polymorph.

Indon
2007-12-28, 03:48 PM
A couple of these potions should do the trick.

Actually, I think I might be wrong, can't find it in the creature's entry. So that might not be required.



Recast. Easy. Or Resilient sphere on self until the whirlwind runs out, then dispel magic. Or heck, do the sane thing and create a rope trick, and pop in and out to pepper the guy. Cage match, can't leave except via magic. If that's banned, I can think of other. Like polymorph.

Recasting - it destroys that one too, again in 1 round.

Resilient Sphere - It starts to kill you on the turn you dispel it, unless you have a level 8 Wizard who can quicken a 3'rd level spell.

Rope Trick - a +29 spot check allows you to see invisible things, such as the entrance to a Rope Trick, and nothing is keeping the Elemental from chasing you in and killing you.

Polymorph - You can't polymorph into anything at level 8 that could kill a 20-HD creature.

Treguard
2007-12-28, 04:21 PM
You guys realise that this thing has a 280ft. fly speed right? :smalleek:


Note: Use the Biped column for burrow and swim speeds for all deities regardless of form. Use half the value in the Biped column for climb speeds for all deities. Use twice the value in the Quadruped column for fly speeds for all deities capable of flying.
Emphasis, mine.

RandomFellow
2007-12-28, 04:25 PM
...Does it take to kill a elder air elemental (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm) with divine rank 0 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank0)?:smallbiggrin:

This guy's immune to your normal tricks.:smallwink:

Ignore the SR for the purpose of this thread.

Cage match is in a 3000ft cube. No Pun-Pun's allowed.

Warlock 8
UMD Check of 37 needed to cast Scroll of [email protected] 17
Take 10 (10)
Cha 20 (+5)
UMD 11 Ranks (+11)
5 Ranks in Decipher Script&Spellcraft (+4)
Magical UMD Competence Bonus Tool (+7)
37

Anything + Candle of Invocation

Just Gate in a 34 HD version of this. You win. =)

Laurellien
2007-12-28, 04:28 PM
Wizard easily teleports out and wins the cage match as he is the first to exit.

Inyssius Tor
2007-12-28, 04:34 PM
Erm, no he doesn't. The elemental is still alive, and you are ignoring the terms of the actual challenge. In fact, I would bet that you lose if you break the challenge's rules.

Zenos
2007-12-28, 04:35 PM
Warlock 8
UMD Check of 37 needed to cast Scroll of [email protected] 17
Take 10 (10)
Cha 20 (+5)
UMD 11 Ranks (+11)
5 Ranks in Decipher Script&Spellcraft (+4)
Magical UMD Competence Bonus Tool (+7)
37

Anything + Candle of Invocation

Just Gate in a 34 HD version of this. You win. =)

Good idea. Now just put ten Warlocks in there for overkill.

Does the Warlock have enough money for the scroll? Nah, I'll just take your word for it.

RandomFellow
2007-12-28, 04:46 PM
Good idea. Now just put ten Warlocks in there for overkill.

Does the Warlock have enough money for the scroll? Nah, I'll just take your word for it.

27k is the WBL for 8th. A Gate Scroll is like 8k + 5k for the competence item. =)

Zenos
2007-12-28, 04:47 PM
27k is the WBL for 8th. A Gate Scroll is like 8k + 5k for the competence item. =)

Then take ten warlocks with, like five scrolls of Gate each and start summoning an army...

vrellum
2007-12-28, 04:52 PM
A couple of these potions should do the trick.

Sadly, potions of see invisiblity do not exist. See invisibility is a personal range spell, so you can't make it into a potion.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-28, 04:57 PM
Actually, I think I might be wrong, can't find it in the creature's entry. So that might not be required.




Recasting - it destroys that one too, again in 1 round.

Resilient Sphere - It starts to kill you on the turn you dispel it, unless you have a level 8 Wizard who can quicken a 3'rd level spell.

Rope Trick - a +29 spot check allows you to see invisible things, such as the entrance to a Rope Trick, and nothing is keeping the Elemental from chasing you in and killing you.

Polymorph - You can't polymorph into anything at level 8 that could kill a 20-HD creature.


Read whirlwind. every 10 mins. Go wild after he uses it.

There's a variety of tricks used for this. Mind you, when I list spells, I list only barebones for winning, not spells that make the fight a cakewalk, like overland flight, which is a staple I'd always have cast. Not to mention the possibility of a lesser rod of quickening.

Rope trick. Errata says you can only get in using the rope. Good luck gettin' in without it, 'cause you can't.

Polymorph....I'm not even going to argue this one. I could go O RLY?!?!?! and use dirty trick to show you what happens, but it's not worth it.

FlyMolo
2007-12-28, 05:14 PM
I think a bunch of warlocks could do it. Not even the gate trick necessary.

Sickening blast, beshadowed blast, darkness, all the fog invocations. Just gang up on it. I don't know how many you'd need.

Edit: Best yet, they can all be invisible.

GoC
2007-12-28, 06:26 PM
Warlock 8
UMD Check of 37 needed to cast Scroll of [email protected] 17
Take 10 (10)
Cha 20 (+5)
UMD 11 Ranks (+11)
5 Ranks in Decipher Script&Spellcraft (+4)
Magical UMD Competence Bonus Tool (+7)
37

Anything + Candle of Invocation

Just Gate in a 34 HD version of this. You win. =)

Cheeeeeeese!!!!
*banned*:smallbiggrin:

Azerian Kelimon: You don't have to prove polymorph works to him but you do have to prove it works to me.:smalltongue:

Fax Celestis
2007-12-28, 06:33 PM
Dragonfire Adept 8. 4d6 breath weapon, see invisibility invocation, fly invocation, darkness invocation. Use the darkness invocation/Adept of Darkness "Hide in Plain Sight" trick. Fly after it, breathing fire over it repeatedly. Hide when necessary. Repeat until dead.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-28, 06:44 PM
Whoa. Nice battlecry. Personally, however, I prefer this one:

SPOON!

You gain 30 levels in awesome if you guess where does that come from without using Teh Intarwebz.

Now, lesse what can I do. Remorhaz is pretty neat. Do you take that damage per attack or per full attack? I can also burrow, which gives me a nice tactical advantage. A shadow gives me the incorporeality benefit, but I need to use Silent spells. I'll think of other possible uses later.

SexyOchreJelly
2007-12-28, 06:47 PM
1 FR Bartender 8. All damage he does is counted as Epic, and he uses a +5 Greataxe of 'Playing the odds'. It always does 12 damage+ enhancements.

So true....

RandomFellow
2007-12-28, 07:18 PM
Cheeeeeeese!!!!
*banned*:smallbiggrin:

Azerian Kelimon: You don't have to prove polymorph works to him but you do have to prove it works to me.:smalltongue:

Cheese is fun times on the boards. =)

GoC
2007-12-28, 09:32 PM
Dragonfire Adept 8. 4d6 breath weapon, see invisibility invocation, fly invocation, darkness invocation. Use the darkness invocation/Adept of Darkness "Hide in Plain Sight" trick.

:smallfurious:
Hide in Plain site cheese is the only cheese I truly hate because people actualy think that RAI would let you do that!

RandomFellow:Treu, but only in moderate doses.:smalltongue:

Gralamin
2007-12-28, 09:47 PM
SPOON!

You gain 30 levels in awesome if you guess where does that come from without using Teh Intarwebz.

The Tick. I'll take my 30 levels in awesome (unless, I'm wrong).


:smallfurious:
Hide in Plain site cheese is the only cheese I truly hate because people actualy think that RAI would let you do that!

RandomFellow:Treu, but only in moderate doses.:smalltongue:

If Hide in Plain Sight does not allow you to Hide in Plain Sight, then what does it do?

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-12-28, 10:12 PM
It is, indeed, the Tick, or my head is a chair and my house is the one what's getting bombed at midnight.

GoC: So, wait, you're asking people to kill a god with a level-eight character and not allowing cheese?
If you just want to say "Ha, you can't beat it," you could tell us in the first post, so we don't waste our time like this coming up with a solution that you, invariably, will call "cheese."

tyckspoon
2007-12-28, 10:16 PM
It is, indeed, the Tick, or my head is a chair and my house is the one what's getting bombed at midnight.

GoC: So, wait, you're asking people to kill a god with a level-eight character and not allowing cheese?
If you just want to say "Ha, you can't beat it," you could tell us in the first post, so we don't waste our time like this coming up with a solution that you, invariably, will call "cheese."

It's only divine rank 0, which is a quasi-deity. Among the things it doesn't get (that could make this nigh impossible instead of just difficult) are nat-1 protection [so if you can find a save-or-die/lose that isn't covered by the deific immunities you can spam it until it blows the save) and salient divine abilities.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2007-12-28, 10:22 PM
Spamming save-or-dies requires either cheese, to get enough castings of them at level 8 to pull it off, or a small army of casters. I very much doubt the answer of "a lot, depending on luck," was intended, here, as it's rather obvious. I figured the challenge was posted to encourage creative solutions, rather than simply killing it with brute numbers, since the latter really doesn't merit a thread.

RandomFellow
2007-12-28, 10:29 PM
:smallfurious:
Hide in Plain site cheese is the only cheese I truly hate because people actualy think that RAI would let you do that!

RandomFellow:Treu, but only in moderate doses.:smalltongue:

One could just build a Wand of Greater Invisibility Warlock. =) He'd take it down solo since the Air Elemental can't see invis. =)

tyckspoon
2007-12-28, 10:37 PM
Spamming save-or-dies requires either cheese, to get enough castings of them at level 8 to pull it off, or a small army of casters. I very much doubt the answer of "a lot, depending on luck," was intended, here, as it's rather obvious. I figured the challenge was posted to encourage creative solutions, rather than simply killing it with brute numbers, since the latter really doesn't merit a thread.

Really? I'd gotten the feeling GoC was trying to find monsters that *couldn't* be beaten by a single clever character (a clever tactic that requires a group to set up would be good), since he's starting to make things that try to exclude Diplomancy (still works on this one, incidentally) and the Dust of Choking and Sneezing (arguably also still works, depending on whether or not the victim needs to breath.) I kind of expect the next one to be a Pseudonatural Vermin or similar, since being Mindless or of animalistic intelligence is the only way I can think of to be completely immune to being diplomanced.

Gralamin
2007-12-28, 10:44 PM
Really? I'd gotten the feeling GoC was trying to find monsters that *couldn't* be beaten by a single clever character (a clever tactic that requires a group to set up would be good), since he's starting to make things that try to exclude Diplomancy (still works on this one, incidentally) and the Dust of Choking and Sneezing (arguably also still works, depending on whether or not the victim needs to breath.) I kind of expect the next one to be a Pseudonatural Vermin or similar, since being Mindless or of animalistic intelligence is the only way I can think of to be completely immune to being diplomanced.

Funny you should mention that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3533294&postcount=62)

tyckspoon
2007-12-28, 10:53 PM
I honestly wasn't thinking of the Damn Crab when I said that..

Now that I think of it, even animal intelligence wouldn't be enough, thanks to the existence of Speak With Animals and Druids and Rangers who can, I'm sure, find some way to achieve a suitably epic Wild Empathy check.

GoC
2007-12-30, 07:22 PM
Tyckspoon is correct.
Any non-cheese solutions are still welcome!:smalltongue:

Or do my monsters finaly get to break their string of losses?:smallwink:

Thinker
2007-12-30, 07:33 PM
Tyckspoon is correct.
Any non-cheese solutions are still welcome!:smalltongue:

Or do my monsters finaly get to break their string of losses?:smallwink:

In other words solutions that involve you getting a small army of ECL 8's to defeat your creation instead of just one clever one?