OOTS #517 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Thar]

Just awesome as always ! "when in doubt, set something on fire"... we'll see if a mystic theurge can burn, too :smallbiggrin:

Go Haley !

[Shott]

Looks like someone's about to get owned. =D

[kpenguin]

Wooo! Go Haley!

[Emperor Ing]

Hey? I wasnt looking? What the hell?

[Aurorax]

Go Haley! Stop that Pattycake!

[Bayar]

The comic is Kickass...just like Haley :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Very... apt title... :smalleek:

[Malik]

Very good, i forgot about O'chul. Go Haley

[Daryk]

I just hope she can spare an arrow or two for the wight.

[headhoncho]

Go! Haley! :)

Hh

[SPoD]

Check out the wight's feet. Priceless.

[Antacid]

Great comic - the first panel with the wight smiling because he has the paladin's shoes is hilarious. But the long-shots in the next few panels have the shoes back on the paladin's feet. Just a copy/pasting error.

EDIT: Corrected, and while I was writing no less.

[malcolm]

He got some boots! Man that wight is really moving up in the world.

[jamroar]

I just hope she can spare an arrow or two for the wight.

Hmm, what potions are those that she's quaffing, you think?

Also, she's mighty confident for someone who got trashed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html) the last time she tried to solo a full caster.

[Keris]

I severely doubt two arrows could stop Tsukiko, so here's hoping those potions are useful!

[RMS Oceanic]

I loved the touch of Tsukiko giving the Wight Thanh's shoes.

Here's hoping for some flaming sneak attack damage!

[Miraqariftsky]

Nice.

That was... unexpected. I thought Tsukiko'd force Thanh to fight and die against the Rebellion on her behest.

Flaming sneak attack, aye--- sneak attacks are viable as long as the rogue wins Initiative, right?

[lord_khaine]

ooh ooh, i vote for the nose, that should be pretty lethal!
hmm am i forgetting something here?

[Faltenin]

One nice thing with Rich is that we WILL find out exactly what those three potions were :smallsmile:

Reminds me of a game where us adventurers infiltrated a secret society, where to say hello they had a special handshake that involved a lot of hand slapping. Of course we were hunting a vampire... :smalleek:

[Jonathan327]

Hopefully she'll make Roy proud as he watches.

[Turanar]

Does playing Pattycake will make Thanh lose his paladin hood ? :smallbiggrin:

As a side note, i had to look on wikipedia what is pattycake ;p In France it's called something else (i don't even know the name ;p)

For those foreigners who don't know what is pattycake :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_A_Cake,_Pat_A_Cake_Bakers_Man

[Emperor Demonking]

Here's hoping the potions are useful.

[Guts]

Good comic. Nice to see haley remember O-chul. What exactly did she drink though?

[isocum]

great comic as always. love the flame end detail at the arrows. and wights are so childish, they feel very unundeady(and i love it).

[Mordokai]

Question.

What is this "pattycake" Tsukiko is talking about?

[daggaz]

I just love it how the wights are always smiling so innocently =)

[TheMeanDM]

Heh...nice :)

How many was that? 3?

[Estelindis]

Awesome comic! I'm glad Haley's trying to make up for leaving O-Chul behind. :smallsmile:

[Lycar]

3 potions and 3 empty bottles.

Well, i think we can rule out barkskin, that would have shown i suppose.

Classic boots are cat's grace (especially for a rogue), bull's strength (not so useful for a rogue) and if you go up agains casters, owl's wisdom or bear's endurance (useful for everyone, really).

Then there are lots of other useful protective potions but we could make a list and betting pool. :smallbiggrin:

Invisibility from undead would be helpful for example.

Lycar


Edit: I think it is save to assume that one vial contained Flame Arrow Oil.

[kierthos]

I'm guessing the potions are cat's grace, haste, and protection from evil.

Edit: Curses! Almost made the first page.

[Derivious]

I only have one thing to say about this comic.
*ahem*
Yes.

[Khatoblepas]

Depending on HOW they play pattycake, Thanh is Level 4-6. :P If they're doing "clap, together, clap, together" it's 3 touches per line :P. Which would make him 4-6. :P If they're playing it with the diagonal as well, he might be a little higher level.

[pondshadow]

great comic as always giant i loved the pattycake bit

[otakuryoga]

is he wearing the shoes on the wight feet?

grroooooooaaaaaan

sorry...couldnt help myself


3 potions at once...hope they mix well...or does ad+d have potion incompatibility problems

[Miklus]

Anybody else noticed the "Gouda" on the box? Those hobgoblins really DO love a good gouda. :smallwink:

[HUMVEE Driver]

I'm sure one of those potions was Eagle's Splendor, because Haley seems even hotter.

HUMVEE Driver

[factotum]

Anybody else noticed the "Gouda" on the box? Those hobgoblins really DO love a good gouda. :smallwink:

Yes, I think everyone noticed that when it first appeared in #514... :smallamused:

I also wonder what the three potions were. I'm guessing they're going to affect the outcome of this battle in some way. Oh, and for the naysayers who are pointing out Haley lost her last battle to a caster, she was lower level then and Samantha was presumably a much better optimised caster than Tsukiko, considering she was a pure sorcerer while T. is a mystic theurge.

[TETanglebrooke]

3 potions at once...hope they mix well...or does ad+d have potion incompatibility problems

the mixing problems werent put in 3.x

my vote is right down her throat though.


What is this "pattycake" Tsukiko is talking about?

its a childhood game where you and a partner do synchronis hand stuff and say

patty cakes patty cakes bakers man
bake me a cake as fast as you can
roll it and pat it and make it with a b
bake us a cake for baby and me

(thats how i remember it anyways....been probably 15 years since my sisters stopped forcing me to do it[i screwed up the hands on purpose he he he][growing up it was me 2 sisters and a working mother in the middle of no where with no neighbors. i didnt have a choice])

[pendell]

Question.

What is this "pattycake" Tsukiko is talking about?

Children's game , at least in the USA. Two kids face each other, repeat this
rhyme, while alternativing clapping their hands and then touching the
other kids hand:

Patty-cake Patty-cake Baker's man
clap touch clap touch clap touch

Bake me a cake as fast as you can
clap touch clap touch clap touch

Pat it Prick it

Mark it with a <letter of child's first name>

<And I forget the last line -- it's been 30 years>

Which, incidentally, would put Thanh under 6th level if every touch
drains a level.

... and make him rise as a wight? What a waste. I was hoping for 'death knight'.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mordokai]

Thanks you guys, it all makes more sense now.

[Fitzclowningham]

I'm guessing the potions are cat's grace, haste, and greater heroism. The maze of boxes are a sneak attacker's dream. Haley could finish Tsukiko in 3 rounds.

[jmaccabeus]

Uh-oh, Haley's going in for the kill... I wouldn't put too much money on Tsukiko right now. If the former knows what she's doing, she'll be able to solve the orifice problem by using at least one arrow for each.

[Sengoku]

About the three potions...I bet one is Heroism, one must be Protection From Evil (to prevent Dominations), the third could be Cat's Grace.

Anyway I bet Haley picked those she kept to fight Tsukiko and counter her powers, our rogue chick ain't stupid :smallwink:

[Glorfindel]

Go Haley, go!

[Wych]

Yay for wights with shoes!

I bet he is disappointed if he doesnt get to play pattycake though :(.

[Bendal]

Catfight! Catfight! Catfight!

My money's on Haley; Tsukiko already used several high level spells (Flame Strike, Lightning Bolt and Dominate Person) on the paladin, plus Teleport. Not too many HP's for a Mystic Theurge either.

[jeffreyac]

I'm rooting for Haley, but worried - after all, the caster chick has to have a pretty good idea of Haley's relative strength, so why call her out and force a confrontation, unless she's pretty sure she can take Haley? And she's a little outnumbered...

...Plus, though I'd love to see Haley just walk out there and wipe the floor with her, I'm not sure that would be as plot-helpful... :)

All in all though, that's what I'd like to see - always had a soft spot for Rogues!

[Freelance Henchman]

Wee, go Haley!

If she manages to take down a major antagonist NPC by herself (and a caster at that), that would be some neat XP. *wishes luck*

[Pyro]

O Haley is so awesome...
The next comic should be awesome. :smallcool:

[Daedalus73]

Wooo I can't wait to see how this fight pans out! Cat fight! :smallsmile:

Were I Haley and had 3 potions to choose from, I'd go with Protection from Evil, Heroism and Haste. But we have no idea what potions she actually possesses. I hope we find out what she drank. :smallsmile:

[Ronald_saveloy]

Tsukiko turns to be what we call in German "Uebermutter". That's a mother, who's always controlling what her children are doing. Always deciding the games her children are playing. And if you dare to hurt one of her beloved children...

May god have mercy with your poor soul. The Uebermutter will not!

[Leewei]

Thinking outside the box regarding those potions:

Magic circle against evil- as protection from evil, with longer duration, plus if she gets within 10 feet of Thanh, it disrupts the dominate person effect.

Nondetection- Tsukiko's Spot check sucks; this prevents magical means of detection.

The last one? I dunno, is there a ventriloquism spell or effect in 3.5E D&D?

[Aerysil]

She's lucky they aren't playing first or second edition - one of the effects might turn permanent and the other could explode inside her. Of course, a permanent gaseous form wouldn't be all that convenient...

Completely missed the shoes, and the meaning of the title.

[Nekulor]

I hope her random choice of orifice does not get the next comic x-rated.

lol.

[Miklus]

Yes, I think everyone noticed that when it first appeared in #514... :smallamused:

I also wonder what the three potions were. I'm guessing they're going to affect the outcome of this battle in some way. Oh, and for the naysayers who are pointing out Haley lost her last battle to a caster, she was lower level then and Samantha was presumably a much better optimised caster than Tsukiko, considering she was a pure sorcerer while T. is a mystic theurge.

Well, damn my spot check! :smallredface:

I bet one of the potions is one of those short-duration resist magic potions. That would be the smart choise anyway. Or maybe they only exists in computer games?

[Copacetic]

My vote goes for the mouth. Because watching Haley shove a flaming arrow down Tsukiko's mouth would make my day. GO HALEY!!! :haley:

[HOLEkevin]

Not jokey, but very entertaining! Rah for Haley!

As for potions, if Haley had her choice I would agree with the above poster about the magic circle vs evil, but I'd make my second bottle an invisibility to undead, and the last one maybe something like a improved mage armor. Force effects apply to touch AC, which would be helpful for enervations and such.

In any case, the one thing I have come to expect from this comic, is that I won't expect whatever Rich pulls out of his hat! Good luck Haley!

[sun_tzu]

Gotta say, I love Haley in Heroic Leader mode.:smallbiggrin:

[Pronounceable]

It's not like Tsukiko would actually fight Haley. She's just trying to get her out in the open, then she'll have Thahn attack her. And she could levitate up and watch the show, and just a simple protection from arrows will make her untouchable.

At least, that's what she's supposed to do, being evil and all.

[Robz_defheadz]

Great comic as always giant

Makes me wonder though. Is O'Chul still alive or is he dead?

[shaddy_24]

Also, she's mighty confident for someone who got trashed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html) the last time she tried to solo a full caster.

Well, I think she's much better prepared this time. Last time, she challanged her to a one-on-one fight, in an open area, so no hiding or sneak attack. Here though, Haley has plenty of chances to hide, and so pull off sneak attacks against Tsukiko. I could see Haley pulling this off. Also, she drank several potions and is using flaming arrows. If she gets a longbow sneak attack, it'll be something like 1d8 + 7d6 sneak attack +1d6 fire damage + whatever the magic bonus on the bow or arrows. Against Tsukiko's mostly d4 hit dice, so not too much health. Anyway, how high could her flatfooted AC be?

Not too high, I hope...:smalleek:

[Azzurus]

Pattycake, Pattycake, Mr. Paladin, Lose a level from a wight as fast as you can!
:smallbiggrin:

[silvadel]

Ok -- first off -- you can't be told to do anything suicidal under domination -- I would consider playing pattycake with a wight to be suicidal.

Also my first thought was potion misciblity... Kind of interesting that they removed that rule. It was very important IMHO to stop someone from uncorking an apothicary and becoming avatar for a few minutes.

[Arlion]

jajaj.Nice comic as always!
I love the waiths(?).What is Pattycake?

[Tyrfang]

Impressive, Haley. Even if she didn't make it away, she's just made herself a hero. Even if she fails utterly :p

And if she succeeds, well, then she'll have a huge amount of respect from the rest of the resistance, lol.

Can't wait to see what happens next.

What happened to Roy's body, anyways? :p

[Agthorr]

Also, she's mighty confident for someone who got trashed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html) the last time she tried to solo a full caster.

A rogue in an improvised arena is a lion in a cage. A rogue with surprise and lots of hidey places is a lion stalking on the savanna.

My money would be on Haley hands down, except that Tsukiko has a hostage.

[SteveDJ]

I think it is save to assume that one vial contained Flame Arrow Oil.

No, she clearly drinks all three. The arrow is flaming because of magical effect (as she said in the last frame; plus the little flames on the ends suggest special/magical arrows).

Looks like she pulled out two such arrows (is that all she has?)

[Glyde]

Hah, with all those consumables she just used anything but a one might pull this off.

Don't roll a 1 :smalleek:

[Felius]

That's Bad...
Badass

[Aristeidis]

Very nice comic, I think Haley leans heavily towards good and increasingly less towards chaos. She was more fun when her eyes were shaped like the dollar's sign! I guess losing her speech to the shock of losing treasure changed her a lot.

[Dib]

ooh no!! :smalleek:

Hope she doesn't kill Tsukiko :smalleek:

[Renegade Paladin]

Does playing Pattycake will make Thanh lose his paladin hood ? :smallbiggrin:
No; it would make him lose his life. The wight would touch him many times in the course of it, and each time drains a level.

ooh no!! :smalleek:

Hope she doesn't kill Tsukiko :smalleek:
Why not? She deserves worse than death.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, I think she's much better prepared this time. Last time, she challanged her to a one-on-one fight, in an open area, so no hiding or sneak attack. Here though, Haley has plenty of chances to hide, and so pull off sneak attacks against Tsukiko. I could see Haley pulling this off. Also, she drank several potions and is using flaming arrows. If she gets a longbow sneak attack, it'll be something like 1d8 + 7d6 sneak attack +1d6 fire damage + whatever the magic bonus on the bow or arrows. Against Tsukiko's mostly d4 hit dice, so not too much health. Anyway, how high could her flatfooted AC be?

Not too high, I hope...:smalleek:

Let's not forget, last time, she went head-on a full caster.

A Mystic Theurge is.. two times a half caster, nothing more, and in that case, the whole is lesser than the sum of it's part. If Tsuttiko was a full-wizard, I would be worried.

Mystic Theurge? That's for fangirls or wanna-be-evil-NPCs

[The Tygre]

Cool, we finally got to see one of Haley's bags of holding in action. And the title says it all...best to pick one at random.

Keep up the good work, Giant!

[sihnfahl]

Ok -- first off -- you can't be told to do anything suicidal under domination -- I would consider playing pattycake with a wight to be suicidal.
She could be bluffing, you know. Tsukiko may not be able to order Thanh to do it, but does Haley know that? Can she take the chance...

[dish]

ooh no!!

Hope she doesn't kill Tsukiko

Why not? She deserves worse than death.

Maybe a quick death would be too good for her?:smallwink:

While it's obvious that Tsutsiko has to be defeated, I think she's too fun to waste on a short, clean death. (I suspect this could get convoluted and messy.)

(And I didn't even notice the shoes until someone pointed them out above.:smallredface: )

[factotum]

Ok -- first off -- you can't be told to do anything suicidal under domination -- I would consider playing pattycake with a wight to be suicidal.


My guess is that you would have to first make a Knowledge check to ensure you knew that Wights drained levels, and then also pass an Intelligence check to realise that touching hands with it in any way would cause the level drain. So, chances are pretty good that you'd at least START playing, and then it's a matter of how long it takes before you realise something's wrong--when Belkar got level drained it didn't appear to cause him any major discomfort, although he clearly realised he'd just lost the level he gained.

[Kesnit]

How much would Than really be drained....

The DC for a level drain is 14. If Than is a (say) 3rd LVL Paladin, his Fort save is +3. Add 1 for CON bonus and 2 for CHA and he's starting with a +6. All he has to roll is an 8 or higher, meaning he'll pass his save 12/20, or 60% of the time.

Even a second level Paladin (Fort still +3) with poorer CHA (+1 vs +2) will save 55% of the time.

[Gamerlord]

lol "pattaycake"
hilarius!
wight=evil patycake man

[sihnfahl]

How much would Than really be drained....
Even with the best saves, if Tsukiko orders Thanh to keep playing, even after the first round, he'll die eventually.

Thanh: "And put it in the oven for Baby and me."
Wight: "Done..."
Tsukiko: "Oh, it seems he survived the first game... oh, well, SECOND GAME!"

That is, of course, assuming that Rich rules that playing pattycake with a wight doesn't count as a self-destructive act that is barred per Dominate Person.

[Varachan]

Haley has a few aces up her sleeve this time:

Roy's Bag of Tricks, which she surely knows about, to make flankers and allow sneak attacks

Necromancer spells are mostly nasty touch and ranged touch attacks (enervation, ray of enfeeblement, ray of exhaustion), against which Haley has a high AC

Potions, probably including protection from evil

A high enough AC that the wight probably needs a 20 to hit her (+6 Dex, +4 from leather +2, etc.)

Tsukiko can't order the paladin to attack her, because he'll most likely make the second save and break control

[The Iron Muffin]

Go Haley!

Kick her arse!

[silvadel]

Yes I did figure it for a bluff -- BUT Haley has a tremendous bluff skill and I would think would be able to figure that one out that it couldnt be done that way...

As for him figuring it out -- even if he didnt know they were wights before -- tsukiko said they were just now. As for knowing wights drain levels -- I dont think that requires any kind of check for a paladin who turned one of them earlier.

As for the battle itself -- that is a spoiler.

As for Haleys chances -- what if she cast protection from missile weapons before the battle -- tsukiko KNOWS what she is up against and it would be foolhardy not to have that as part of your fully buffed regimine against a known archer. Personally I think this is going to turn out quite grim with the straightforward approach. I mean you also have other spells like mirror image that can make the solo archer have lots of trouble.

[Adeptus]

Nice! :haley:

Have a great new year Giant! And everybody else too!

[sihnfahl]

Yes I did figure it for a bluff -- BUT Haley has a tremendous bluff skill and I would think would be able to figure that one out that it couldnt be done that way...
But Bluff is not countered by bluff - it's countered by Sense Motive. We know she has a few points in it, but how much isn't clear.

In the end, though, does it matter? Even if the bluff didn't work, Tsukiko would just go 'oh, well, plan b. Paladin, just sit on the floor like a good boy." And he'd sit on the floor. That's not self-destructive. Then the wight would touch him repeatedly until he was drained completely.

[Groundhog]

Also my first thought was potion misciblity... Kind of interesting that they removed that rule. It was very important IMHO to stop someone from uncorking an apothicary and becoming avatar for a few minutes.

You have a point there, but I don't see why if you saved up your items you wouldn't be able to use them all at once if you wanted to. Sometimes it's necessary.

[orcmonk89]

OK, I want Haley's last lines on a tee-shirt. :smallbiggrin:

Go Haley!

[Dib]

Why not? She deserves worse than death.

She's too cool to die!! She's like my new fave character!! She cant die!!

[Hopeless]

Yes, I think everyone noticed that when it first appeared in #514... :smallamused:

I also wonder what the three potions were. I'm guessing they're going to affect the outcome of this battle in some way. Oh, and for the naysayers who are pointing out Haley lost her last battle to a caster, she was lower level then and Samantha was presumably a much better optimised caster than Tsukiko, considering she was a pure sorcerer while T. is a mystic theurge.

Roughly speaking she's at least a 3rd level cleric, 4th level sorceror and a 6th level Mystic Theurge buts thats approximate at best since I'm basing that on the fact she used both a flame strike and a dominate person spells and assume they're her most powerfulest spells not a wise idea if dealing with it in a game though!

Especially given her tendency towards necromancy which suggests otherwise.

Still Protection from evil does sound very likely even if it will only last for one minute unless it was specially made, Owl's Wisdom would make a good option but I'd suggest Negative Plane Protection in case the wights are sicked on her, but who knows I suspect Belkar's going to intervene and I wonder if he'll go into berserk rage?

[Albion]

Haha, that was wonderful.... Haley has a point.

Happy New Year all!

[Assassin77]

Go Haley! I hope this doesnt end up like Haley vs. Samantha.

[Hunter Noventa]

Also consider that if those are indeed magic arrows, Protection from Arrows is useless as it only provides DR 10/magic.

[Prowl]

Ok -- first off -- you can't be told to do anything suicidal under domination -- I would consider playing pattycake with a wight to be suicidal.

Technically, only the last clap of hands would be suicidal.

Depending on how they play pattycake, Thanh is either max level 7 or max level 15; I would guess the former, since the latter would be a serious badass very unlikely to be susceptible to domination, and very unlikely to miss his first attack against Tsukiko.

[Shraik]

The wight now has Thanh's shoes.

[Morchaint]

Go Haley get your flaming crit on...

potionwise Im guessing on a. cats grace. b. true strike, and c. strength or somethin.

WTF where did my avatar go? ... what is this avatar hide and seek? first its not there now it is.. again wtf ftw.

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Very good.


A Mystic Theurge is.. two times a half caster, nothing more, and in that case, the whole is lesser than the sum of it's part. If Tsuttiko was a full-wizard, I would be worried.
Not exactly. A Mystic Theurge is 3/4 levels behind a full caster, but definitely better than a half caster, like a paladin or ranger.

[The Extinguisher]

Hah, great comic.

Also, given Tsukiko, it makes me wonder what she means by 'pattycake'.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit anyone?

[Forealms]

Good stuff, good stuff. I can't wait to see an arrow up Tsukiko's... orifice. I liked how happy the wight looked now that he was wearing boots.

[Lex-Kat]

Everyone's wondering what Haley drank, but my question is:

What did Tsukiko do off screen to make her think she can take on a "PC" rogue with equal (+/- 1 or 2) levels?

Do you honestly think that after using some pretty high level spells, she'd just walk into a rogue's dreamland without some kind of plan? Tsukiko doesn't seem that dumb to me.

[The Burninator]

My question is, why didn't haley just shove a magical flaming arrow up Tsukiko's orifice while hiding, instead of breaking her cover first, which it looks like is what she's going to do. She might want a fair fight but that's just stupid. Better safe than sorry.

[KuH]

Just a quick point on pattycake and Thanh's level: the hand claps/rhythm the way we do them are as follows. Each line is a 1-2 beat, where you clap your own hands together on the '1' and your partner's on the '2'

Patty-cake
Patty-cake
Baker's
Man

Bake me a
Cake as
Fast as you
Can

Note that 'Man' and 'Can' are followed by a pause for the second clap. That means each line will give FOUR hand claps.


Also a quick spoiler on the results from the fight:

Even if Tsusiko is killed by Haley, she will make a wonderful villain when raised again by Redcloak. She can die now and still recur.

[Amon Hen]

Awesome as always! This way the best part of my week.:smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

How much would Than really be drained....

The DC for a level drain is 14. If Than is a (say) 3rd LVL Paladin, his Fort save is +3. Add 1 for CON bonus and 2 for CHA and he's starting with a +6. All he has to roll is an 8 or higher, meaning he'll pass his save 12/20, or 60% of the time.

Even a second level Paladin (Fort still +3) with poorer CHA (+1 vs +2) will save 55% of the time.
There's no saving throw until the NEXT DAY to recover the negative level or have the loss become permanent.

[Nightfall]

Question.

What is this "pattycake" Tsukiko is talking about?

It's a child's hand-clapping game, clapping hands together and with each other while speaking a rhyme.

Of course, in Toon Town, it's a whole other game. :smallwink:

[Nightfall]

Tsukiko turns to be what we call in German "Uebermutter". That's a mother, who's always controlling what her children are doing. Always deciding the games her children are playing. And if you dare to hurt one of her beloved children...

May god have mercy with your poor soul. The Uebermutter will not!

I'm waiting to see someone post here now with the User ID "Uebermutter". :smallbiggrin: What a great word!

[Bitzeralisis]

The wight got his shoes.

[Gol_Stoan]

Methinks this is how Tsukiko made the rest of her Wights. :smalltongue:

[Tordek]

Isn't there horrible consequences when someone drinks/combines multiple potions at the same time?

[Finn Solomon]

Haley is so bad-ass.

[johnnyriot999]

Everyone's wondering what Haley drank, but my question is:

What did Tsukiko do off screen to make her think she can take on a "PC" rogue with equal (+/- 1 or 2) levels?

Do you honestly think that after using some pretty high level spells, she'd just walk into a rogue's dreamland without some kind of plan? Tsukiko doesn't seem that dumb to me.

In the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar: "It's a trap!"


The wight now has Thanh's shoes.

Nice catch!

[hendrake]

Thanks Giant! That one made me chuckle. Go Haley!

[Fozzie]

Go Haley, go!
"Probably best to choose at random", lol

[Porthos]

Isn't there horrible consequences when someone drinks/combines multiple potions at the same time?

Not in 3rd Edition. :smallsmile:

[David Argall]

Tsukiko provoked this fight. Haley was trying to avoid it. They are the experts on their relative abilities, so Tsukiko should be considerded a strong favorite. We have a variety of factors that might save Haley, but if Haley had thought she could solo Tsukiko, she would have set up an ambush in the first place.

Pattycake. It does seem like Thanh is no more than 7th and maybe as low as 4th. He had to be 4th to turn at all, but only turning one is almost impossible at higher levels. Of course, the wights have received some undefined buffs and that might include turn resistance.
Pattycake can have a variety of rules, and under some of them, Thanh could survive for quite some time. MM does not say any contact with the wight drains a level, merely it's slam attack. So if Thanh does the touching, or maybe if the wight does a touch that doesn't qualify as an attack, Thanh is in no danger. [Of course, the wight is evil, which means even under these conditions, it is going to cheat and get some tasty levels, so eventually Thanh is history, and another wight.]

Thanh is likely able to resist playing pattycake, but this is a lot like our lich's symbol of insanity. Legally it won't work, but the caster can achieve the same result legally without much effort, so why fuss about the caster doing it a cool way? [Tsukiko can defintely order Thanh to just tie himself up, after which the wight has a great time.]

Battle predictions
Both girls will survive the battle. 3 or 4 battles from now, we might dispose of Tsukiko in a grand battle to the death [which could take several strips, or just one picture where Tsukiko is hit by a falling tree after a big build up to the battle and Haley doesn't even get a chance to shoot]. But right now, she is too useful to the plot to knock off.
Tsukiko will try to cheat, by sending in the wight or Thanh to attack Haley. Belkar will show up to deal with the wight, and Thanh will make his save if she does.

[Nargrakhan]

Oh no... big fight...

Fight Tsukiko! Fight! For ever lasting necrophilia!

Please don't die... I was just starting to get to know you! :smallredface:

[Lycar]

Please don't die... I was just starting to get to know you! :smallredface:

Sheesh, what are you so worried about ? She is a necromancer.

For her it's not deah, it's an internship. :smallcool:


Lycar

[Warlord JK]

So many choices, so little time

[ref]

Her nostrils! Her nostrils!

What is pattycake, btw?

[shylocxs]

Gouda! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Hallavast]

Huzzah! Finally, a well-equipped party member!

*Does FF3 victory dance*

[Heliomance]

Even if Tsusiko is killed by Haley, she will make a wonderful villain when raised again by Redcloak. She can die now and still recur.

Haley is Kerrigan
In other news, I need to get used to my new keyboard.

[maxon]

oooo - do we get to vote? Ummm.....


Originally Posted by DibTheBountyHunt
ooh no!!
Hope she doesn't kill Tsukiko


Why not? She deserves worse than death.

She'd be in heaven - all those dead people - actually, I mean Hell since she's evil, but she'd be happy - or something. Something nasty probably. Eeew.

Anyway, I'm sure she'd see it as a holiday.

[Fafnir13]

Haley is Kerrigan

Holy carp that would be bad.

[Nidhögg]

Check out the wight's feet. Priceless.

Didn't notice that when I read the comic. Thanks for pointing it out. :smallsmile:

Pattycake with a wight. That is very creative.
Even though many posters have pointed out that it might break the domination because it would be considered suicidal or an attack by the wight it's still a fun thought, and funny thoughts count the most in comics. :smallbiggrin:

A small question on DnD rules...
I don't play DnD, but I tried to find rules on mystic theurge and if what I found is correct, if Tsukiko is for example 3 cleric/4 sorcerer/6 mystic theurge she would cast spells as a lvl 9 cleric and a lvl 10 sorcerer and that isn't too bad is it? Some posters have suggested that she would be a lousy caster because she is a mystic theurge. Isn't it her other abilities (like rebuke undead and her familiar) that would suffer most?

[chef781]

:smile: I have to agree with her assessment of the situation. I myself, w--
KIR
WIR
SSHH

i'd do the same if'n i were there.:biggrin:

[Prowl]

The wight got his shoes.

And they apparently came with a ****-eating grin, too.

[Kokomo]

I bet everything turns out swell for that wight!

That is all for now!

[Jayngfet]

arrows do piercing damage, so I vote to make a new flaming one:smallbiggrin:

[Blaznak]

That's great that the wight got its shoes! Funny!

I also love that Haley never disappoints when it comes to being true to her character. I thought it cool she wasn't considering surrendering!

Nice strip!

[Kish]

A small question on DnD rules...
I don't play DnD, but I tried to find rules on mystic theurge and if what I found is correct, if Tsukiko is for example 3 cleric/4 sorcerer/6 mystic theurge she would cast spells as a lvl 9 cleric and a lvl 10 sorcerer and that isn't too bad is it? Some posters have suggested that she would be a lousy caster because she is a mystic theurge. Isn't it her other abilities (like rebuke undead and her familiar) that would suffer most?
Those and her ability to cast high level spells. A single-classed level 13 wizard can cast seventh-level spells; a cleric 3/sorcerer 4/mystic theurge 6 can cast fifth-level spells (but both cleric and sorcerer spells).

Mystic theurges shine when every other caster in the party runs out of spells. Most DMs actively avoid that situation all or nearly all of the time. Though the sheer number of spell slots is still something to be reckoned with, especially when the arcane half is sorcerer rather than wizard.

[Amras Seer]

Pattycake payyycake bakers main,
bake me a cake as fast as you ca........thud

Why does everybody I play with die.

[Opeth_Freak]

Okay... and now, something completely different:

GO TSUKIKO! Kick Haley's ass!

Because Evil was, is and will always be better :D Besides Tsukiko is my favourite char in al OotS. Hope, you won't kill me for this comment :P

[Dartonus]

Go for the eyes, Haley! That way you have a shot at Tsukiko's brain as well!

[snoopy13a]

I'm not a DnD expert (or even a DnD novice for that matter :smalltongue: ). Anyway, I was wondering how protection from arrows works (V has used it before) as if Tsukiko has any common sense she'd cast it on herself.

[Milandros]

I'm not a DnD expert (or even a DnD novice for that matter :smalltongue: ). Anyway, I was wondering how protection from arrows works (V has used it before) as if Tsukiko has any common sense she'd cast it on herself.

This has been answered already, but... it gives you 10 points of damage resistance (i.e. the first ten points of damage from arrows etc) is ignored, unless a magic weapon is used, in which case the damage resistance is ignored. Usually written as DR 10/magic. Haley is using magical arrows, and may well have a magical bow - either counts, so Protection from Arrows is a waste of time here.

Here's a useful resource to look up questions like this:
http://www.d20srd.org/

-----------------
The warded creature gains resistance to ranged weapons. The subject gains damage reduction 10/magic against ranged weapons. (This spell doesn’t grant you the ability to damage creatures with similar damage reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 100 points), it is discharged.
-----------------

[Forealms]

Go for the eyes, Haley! That way you have a shot at Tsukiko's brain as well!

Or lack thereof.

[shylocxs]

I liked how happy the wight looked now that he was wearing boots.

Darn straight! All wights need to be taken care of sometimes.

[Hallavast]

Why not? She deserves worse than death.

Why does she deserve death? :smallconfused:

[Solara]

Why does she deserve death? :smallconfused:

I dunno, maybe because of all those people she betrayed, murdered and/or enslaved? Or maybe just because she's an annoying brat...

[osyluth]

Okay, people, so what orifice do you suggest? :tongue:

[Callista]

Hmm... how about *censored*? :P

I'm hoping they both walk away from this battle. Tsukiko is too cool a character to die so early, and Haley's... well, Haley.

[the_tick_rules]

hooray, this cat fight is gonna rock.

[Meshakhad]

This "Hell, yeah!" moment has been brought to you by the Azure City Resistance (or whatever we're called).

And frankly, I'm hoping that Haley, utilizing the element of surprise, clever thinking, and dumb luck, wipes the floor with Tsukiko. Tsukiko should be brought back as a sentient undead (a vampire would be interesting). It's about time the good guys got to kick some ass.

[Ridureyu]

Haley will likely lose.

1. Tsukiko is probably much, much more powerful than her.

2. There are a lot of wights.

3. There's a possessed paladin there.


I'm suspecting a replay of Roy vs. Xykon.

[*Templar*]

I'm suspecting a replay of Roy vs. Xykon.

We're not going to see a second member of the main cast die a heroic death before the first one is rezzed.

[Ridureyu]

Or Haley could end up captured, or possibly dominated. Either way, odds are really against her.

[Exalted_Hater]

ps. I love Haley! yes, I <3 Haley! let the world Rejoice!

[Arkenputtyknife]

My question is, why didn't haley just shove a magical flaming arrow up Tsukiko's orifice while hiding, instead of breaking her cover first, which it looks like is what she's going to do. She might want a fair fight but that's just stupid. Better safe than sorry.
Well, look at the angle. It would be very hard to get a clear shot from inside that box. Also bows need space to use. I don't know how the rules stand these days (haven't played since 1st ed AD&D) but if I were DM, I'd give her a big to-hit penalty for trying that. It's not worth it.

And she hasn't blown her cover (yet); she's merely left the box — on the side that Tsukiko can't see. She can probably sneak around to take a shot from a better position before being seen. That's not stupid.

[LtNOWIS]

I dunno, maybe because of all those people she betrayed, murdered and/or enslaved? Or maybe just because she's an annoying brat...

And because she had a loving relationship that was forbidden by society. :smallmad:

But yeah, while the love of undead doesn't help, the evil and treason is more than enough for her to deserve death in my book.

[LtNOWIS]

For ever lasting necrophilia!


Congratulations. According to Google, nobody has ever said that phrase on the internet until now.

[phoamslinger]

a prediction:

Haley will sneak attack. Tsukiko will have some sort of counter set up, having anticipated Haley's attack. Tsukiko will gain the upper hand in the battle, either through preparation, spells, more undead attacks, the dominated paladin attacking, or more of team Evil waiting in the wings to close the trap. Just when things are really bad, the fly in the ointment/sand in the machinery/sabot in the gears BELKAR will pop back out with whatever he found and turn the tables on Tsukiko.

Considering it was in the granary, I'm betting on something odd and off the wall, like a Myrlynd's Everlasting Stewpot with which to bribe the MitD or some other out of the box magic item application.

[silvadel]

We're not going to see a second member of the main cast die a heroic death before the first one is rezzed.

some wild speculation below


Why not? Kill her off and rezzing roy will be even more difficult... I mean theoretically you could have them all die and 2 years down the line someone true rezzes them all. Or you could have all of them die but V and 5 years down the line V wishes their bodies back and then wishes durkon back to rez the rest of them...... Or Xykon could get bored with running everything and rez roy :)

[Tobimaro]

Still Protection from evil does sound very likely even if it will only last for one minute unless it was specially made, Owl's Wisdom would make a good option but I'd suggest Negative Plane Protection in case the wights are sicked on her, but who knows I suspect Belkar's going to intervene and I wonder if he'll go into berserk rage?

Negative Plane Protection was not put into 3.5, but a potion of Death Ward would be one way to go, as it protects from negative energy effects like a wight's touch and enervation. That would be an obvious choice for me.

Anyways, great comic, Giant. Let's hope that Haley can open a can on Tsukiko. And make up for letting O-Chul be taken.

[factotum]

1. Tsukiko is probably much, much more powerful than her.

2. There are a lot of wights.

3. There's a possessed paladin there.


1. How do you figure that? Tsukiko is apparently around the same level as Haley, and while she's a caster, she's seriously gimped by being a Mystic Theurge. In fact, given her likely lack of hit points, Haley could possibly finish her with a single Sneak Attack!

2. I only see one. The others are either dead or nowhere nearby. Also, Wights are pretty weak creatures, and Haley should easily be able to take them out from range before they can get close enough to level drain her.

3. A possessed paladin who's probably about 6th level...I doubt he's going to make much difference to the fight!

[Ridureyu]

1. How do you figure that? Tsukiko is apparently around the same level as Haley, and while she's a caster, she's seriously gimped by being a Mystic Theurge. In fact, given her likely lack of hit points, Haley could possibly finish her with a single Sneak Attack!

2. I only see one. The others are either dead or nowhere nearby. Also, Wights are pretty weak creatures, and Haley should easily be able to take them out from range before they can get close enough to level drain her.

3. A possessed paladin who's probably about 6th level...I doubt he's going to make much difference to the fight!



1. It's better comedy value for her to roll a 1 on oher sneak attack. "TASTE DEATH!" *tink*

2. Level drain can hit anyone. Haley uses her turn to attack Tsukiko. Five wights hit her at once.

3. Haley says, "Well, now that we've rescued you..." And the paladin crits her. She's already injured, so that's that.

[fractal]

So, strategy. First, if Haley didn't drink something to protect against Domination, she's crazy. Therefore, assume Protection from Evil (Magic Circle Against Evil seems unlikely, it ignores the comedic possibilities available from a dominated Paladin). Second, Tsukiko probably has a high Intelligence and Wisdom (certainly the latter). Therefore, she would be silly not to realize that Haley likely has buff spells going, but is not known to have a high level friend.

Therefore, if Haley doesn't deal life-threatening damage in the first round, Tsukiko should hit her with a targeted Dispel Magic. Poof! Goodbye, buff spells! Hello, round 2 Dominate! Mind you, I don't really expect the Dispel, although I could see Tsukiko trying and failing to Dominate Haley.

Key point - the Dominate spell still "works", even through Protection from Evil, the victim just doesn't have to obey so long as Protection from Evil lasts. Dominate Person has a much longer duration than Protection from Evil, however, so Tsukiko could Dominate Haley now, then run away waiting for the Protection to wear off. Ick.

[Doctor Zuber]

Oh my. Three words folks.

"Potion Miscibility Rules"

*clatter* *clatter* Oh my indeed...

Someone does raise an important point though. I don't think these rules were ever put back into print since 3rd edition came out. Silly WOTC. I think a bunch of gaming groups out there still retain this one as a house rule though.

And for the great "What was in those 3 potions" debate. Humm... well back in strip 135 V did purchase 27 heroism potions, and Miss Starshine is a thief. Humm... Who wants to bet one of those potions was a heroism potion.

The other two potions is a guessing game. Haste would be a very good idea, and level draining undead and an evil cleric? Bad news. Prot evil would be a fabulous idea, if she has it.

Who should realistically win by D&D rules? Well first what in the boop is a Mystic Theurge anyhow (Checks trusty web browser). My Oh My. Yea that does look nasty, but that essentially means she is still a cloth wearing d4 spellcaster, with a wide selection of spells to choose from.

NEVER underestimate the power of a player however. A stack of potions like that? The element of suprise? a few allies who will undoubtedly jump in as well? This fight could be over in a single combat round leaving nothing but a couple of confused undead.

On the other hand, a well prepared spellcaster? Stoneshield, mage armor, a few other tricks up her sleeve that are likely? Not to mention the fact that if this battle doesnt end quickly we can anticipate some reinforcements for Team Evil. This fight could go either way folks. But I'm voting for the good guys. They've got the power of PLOT on their side.

[FujinAkari]

On the other hand, a well prepared spellcaster? Stoneshield, mage armor, a few other tricks up her sleeve that are likely? Not to mention the fact that if this battle doesnt end quickly we can anticipate some reinforcements for Team Evil. This fight could go either way folks. But I'm voting for the good guys. They've got the power of PLOT on their side.

Don't forget WHO Tsukiko is... I would be amazed if she wasn't permanently under the effect of "Living Undeath"... and that spell will ruin Haley's sneak attack damage... which is... ya know... her best offensive weapon X_x

[pjackson]

A simple battle plan for Haley would be to sneak to somewhere where she can step into view about 30' away whilst being partially covered and fill Tsukikko full of arrows.
She is almost certain to make the Move Silently and Hide checks to get surprise and her first sneak attack.
Then she is likely to win the initiative check, and get a full round attack for another 3 sneak attacks whilst Tsukiko is still flatfooted.
Two such hits would probably be enough to kill Tsukiko, 3 certainly would.
If the surprise round attack bounces off some magical protection of Tsukiko's, instead of a full attack, a single sneak attack on the wight (almost certainly killing it) and then move back into hiding, before Tsukiko gets to cast anything.

[Drascin]

As I see it, the result depends on a single factor - did Tsukiko foresee Haley being there before going?

If yes, she probably is using some buff to prevent Sneak Attack, and therefore Haley would be forced to run and snipe, relying on Tsukiko's abysmal Spot modifier, until the theurge retreated - or she got caught, in which case a she'd be hit by a Will Save, her most likely weak spot. She might actually make the save, due to MAD diminishing Tsukiko's DCs a lot comared to a normal full caster, but still, she might very well not, so, advantage - Tsukiko.

If no, Tsukiko only gave herself the average buffs, and spent a lot of spellpower buffing the wights. In this case, Haley could, by the rules, destroy Tsukiko before the fight really started with a volley of Sneak Attacks (We're looking at 1d8 + 7d6 + 1d6 fire + whatever plusses the bow or arrows have, for around 35-36 average damage each hit, minus whatever damage reduction her buffs give her, against an enemy with about 70 HP on average assuming about 14-15 Con (which, given the MAD Theurges suffer, seems a fair, or even generous, assumption (nesting parentheses is fun!))). Advantage - Haley, who doesn't even break a sweat.

[sihnfahl]

1. How do you figure that? Tsukiko is apparently around the same level as Haley, and while she's a caster, she's seriously gimped by being a Mystic Theurge. In fact, given her likely lack of hit points, Haley could possibly finish her with a single Sneak Attack!
If Tsukiko isn't ready for a potential ranged attack...


2. I only see one. The others are either dead or nowhere nearby. Also, Wights are pretty weak creatures, and Haley should easily be able to take them out from range before they can get close enough to level drain her.
Then again, in the warehouse, there's quite a number of spots they can approach her without being noticed. Lots of boxes means corners everywhere and limited straight-line visibility.


3. A possessed paladin who's probably about 6th level...I doubt he's going to make much difference to the fight!
I don't agree with this. He can make a VERY big difference to the fight.

"Hey, Paladin! Your friend Haley came to help you! Isn't that great? Why don't you go over to her and give her a GREAT BIG HUG. Don't let go, now..."

[Doctor Zuber]

If Starshine can't drop her in one, maybe two rounds max she needs to make like a rogue and dissapear. A prolonged battle here is BAD.

Her ONLY choice is to hit her with the most brutal attacks she can get, (sneak attacks with suprise) and pray that our naughty little Mystic either doesn't have the spell stoneskin, or was too retarded to cast it. Because frankly if she's got stoneskin up it's going to be pretty much impossible for a rogue to drop her quickly.

If however she somehow does not have stoneskin, she is very unlikely to even last one round. a rogue can do a truckload of damage in short order, especially in the first round with the benifit of suprise.

[Leewei]

Negative Plane Protection was not put into 3.5, but a potion of Death Ward would be one way to go, ...

This idea occurred to me as well, however potions are limited to 3rd level spells. Is there a 3rd level variant of death ward?

Another thought: Tsukiko is human. One of Haley's potions might be darkvision. Perhaps she intends to turn out the lights and sneak attack Tsukiko into a Mystic Pincushion?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

V dodged the arrow with a "Protection from Arrows" spell. Shurikens as well.

Tsukiko may or may not be expecting Haley, but there is probably more than one archer in the Resistance, so that would be a pretty common precaution.

Could one of the potions somehow allow Haley to override a PoA spell?

[factotum]

Could one of the potions somehow allow Haley to override a PoA spell?

Why does she need a potion to do that? Protection From Arrows provides damage reduction 10/magic against arrows. If Haley is using a magic bow or magic arrows (and since she actually SAYS she's using "magic flaming arrows", I think the chances of that are pretty high :smallwink: ) then PoA will do precisely nothing to stop them.

[Callista]

And because she had a loving relationship that was forbidden by society. :smallmad:

But yeah, while the love of undead doesn't help, the evil and treason is more than enough for her to deserve death in my book.Um, no, she was arrested for "unnatural acts of wizardry"--i.e., raising undead, not getting intimate with them. You don't need any wizardry to have sex. Also, I need brain bleach now.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Why does she need a potion to do that? Protection From Arrows provides damage reduction 10/magic against arrows. If Haley is using a magic bow or magic arrows (and since she actually SAYS she's using "magic flaming arrows", I think the chances of that are pretty high :smallwink: ) then PoA will do precisely nothing to stop them.

Wouldn't Tsukiko plan for that as well?

I don't want this to turn into a "The Dread Pirate Roberts vs. Vincinzzi" battle, but neither got to be "High Level" characters without taking out other tough opponents. Both will be planning on each other's moves and counters, which makes me think the resolution will be something unexpected and unpredictable.

Like whatever it was that Belkar spotted at the grainary.

What would you hide, or even place at a grainary? High powered magic items would be kept in a vault, or in the hands of those who would use them. A signaling device to contact Captain Julio Scoundrel doesn't quite fit.

[selgnij]

Well, I might as well add in my 2 cents on how the battle will go.

I really have no idea about DnD rules, aside from what I've read on the forums, so I'll draw my speculation from the plot. Spoilered, just in case.

From the idea that the black squad was sent in alone, and that Haley was trying to avoid a fight with Tsukiko, I have to think Haley isn't an even match against Tsukiko. That being said, there are a few things working in her favour, surprise being a good start, but she may have a few other advatages to back that up. A psychotic halfing may still show up to handle any remaining wights, plus I should think that in her situation, she would have called in all the help she could get, and when we last saw her she did have Celia's pendant and she did overhear what it does, so she may have some backup besides Belkar.

[strangelander]

Hmm. Rich rarely does anything with something, and -always- does something with nothing.

Hence, I look at flaming arrows, wooden crates of evil-empire supplies, Haley's determination not to let another Azure citizen be left behind, a missing Belkar nursing wight-grudges, and an overconfident heterochromial stage villain-dilettante with equal measures of zeal and foreboding.

Onward and upward!

[Holammer]

In one of her orifices... Nostrils!

... WHAT?

[Edanor]

Am I the only person here that finds the happy Wight cute?

[Callista]

some wild speculation below


Why not? Kill her off and rezzing roy will be even more difficult... I mean theoretically you could have them all die and 2 years down the line someone true rezzes them all. Or you could have all of them die but V and 5 years down the line V wishes their bodies back and then wishes durkon back to rez the rest of them...... Or Xykon could get bored with running everything and rez roy :)


The "why Haley shouldn't die" is more literary than tactical. It's awkward to handle major protagonists in different locations because it slows the story down (you have to spend time describing events in each place) and because you have to introduce other minor characters for them to interact with. Two locations is the maximum recommended; but if Haley gets killed, Rich has to deal with:

1. Roy in the LG afterlife
2. Belkar in Azure City
3. Haley in the CG afterlife
4. The rest of the gang on Hinjo's junk

Not very advisable--we'd be stalled for months before the Order got back together! If Rich wants to kill off Haley, he's probably better off doing it after he gets the Order unified again, so that he can deal with just two separate stories (plus the villains' strips).

I don't think I've ever read a book where so many different simultaneous plots were handled successfully without also making the story much longer and much slower; and I don't think the Giant is a "Wheel of Time" sort of guy.

'Course, he's also freaking chaotic, so, y'know, I could be completely wrong. I'm just going from what I'd do if it were one of my stories (besides the whole "being aghast that I'm suddenly a really good storyteller out of the blue" thing).

[xwd]

The "just pop 'em before a boss battle and hope you're strong enough" approach to buffs is my favorite too. Except when said boss dispels said buffs. Then I get mad.

This whole technical discussion about the upcoming strips is going over my head and is in more depth than I care to explore, so my rational for speculation will be MST3K-style: "It's just a stick figure comic, you should really just relax."
I'm thinking that a minor villain with EXP-stealing cannon fodder and a confused minor character probably will get trashed by two main characters, one of them buffed more than a bowling ball and the other with a reputation for being violently insane, and a minor character.
But, there's always the chance the protagonists will get hit with a temporary setback. However, if there's anything I've learned from watching Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series, it's that main characters can't die (and they hog all the screentime), so I wouldn't hold your breath for protagonist deaths. Maybe exposing their base, losing some random minor characters, almost dying. Anything but death, really.

Lastly, I vote for sweat glands. The fact that the arrow points are bigger than they are makes it all the more awesome.

[sealemon]

I never thought I'd be one of those posters that thinks stick figures are attractive but...Haley was kinda hot right thar.

"Who said anything about surendering?"

Damn right.

Just hope she doesn't make the pali attack Halley for fun. Even though he'd prolly save, it would still provide a distraction.

[Tre of the Wood]

Awesome comic. I love how the wight took Thanth's shoes. Also, anyone else think that what Belkar saw was the MITD?

[Black_Light83]

lol the wight has shoes :smallbiggrin:

[Mauve Shirt]

Awesome comic. I love how the wight took Thanth's shoes. Also, anyone else think that what Belkar saw was the MITD?

Why would the MITD be "totally worth it"?

[Healer Hobo]

I severely doubt two arrows could stop Tsukiko, so here's hoping those potions are useful!


You seem to be forgetting the wonderous powers of RPs. Dispite how few arrows left in the quiver, the user ALWAYS has a full amount, unless it is plot essential that it's empty. Or she could jsut be good at hiding them... I wonder where:smalleek:

Also, your sig is familar Keris. You wouldn't happen to know a guy called Klimmtog would yeh?

[Amotis]

*reads last line*

Oh dude, gross. >.<

[Claw]

However, if there's anything I've learned from watching Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series, it's that main characters can't die (and they hog all the screentime), so I wouldn't hold your breath for protagonist deaths. Maybe exposing their base, losing some random minor characters, almost dying. Anything but death, really.
But Roy already did, and this ain't Yuck-Gi-Oh.

[dakiwiboid]

Sigh. Poor O-Chul. The guy's name is so simple--it has five letters and one hyphen, and more half the time it shows up in the forum, people turn the hyphen into an apostrophe. He's paralyzed, dragged around by the MITD, abandoned by his companions, and terminally misspelled! He's never going to get any respect.

[ChaosDefender24]

I think Tsukiko is going to lose at this point because she's already shown the tendency to be stupid.
She wasted two high-level spell slots on a guy before dominating him, when she could have simply done that in the first place and retained those slots. And it's a 6th-7th level paladin, not a real threat, too!
If Tsukiko gets her Polymorph/Divine Power game on, I think she might have a chance, especially if she took Practiced Spellcaster (War troll.)
But she won't, and it will be a glorious day for :haley:

[Mauve Shirt]

But Roy already did, and this ain't Yuck-Gi-Oh.

He's not talking about Yuck-Gi-Oh, he's talking about the abridged series. (http://www.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/) BIG difference.

[David Argall]

I think Tsukiko is going to lose ... it will be a glorious day for :haley:

I have a dubious idea which might require that she lose here.
We have no good reason for Xykon to cast his big spell, except that he is crazy enough to do most anything just at a whim. So maybe he has a very good reason. He saw the rift was growing and not wanting an escaped Snarl, he cast the spell to prevent the rift from growing even more. Now he is stuck at the job of saving the world [& himself] by keeping the rift from growing, which he finds boring.
So Tsukiko beats Haley and hauls her in for questioning [aka torture and murder]. However Xykon has an idea of how to seal the Rift, so he can get back to finding the next Gate. And this involves Haley doing some heroics, possibly aided by Tsukiko and O-Chul. So he gives Haley an offer she can't refuse [and might throw in Raising Roy]. Then we have some heroics that seal the rift. Xykon drops the spell and heads off to the next Gate, with the party in pursuit.

[Leewei]

I have a dubious idea which might require that she lose here.
We have no good reason for Xykon to cast his big spell, except that he is crazy enough to do most anything just at a whim. So maybe he has a very good reason. He saw the rift was growing and not wanting an escaped Snarl, he cast the spell to prevent the rift from growing even more. Now he is stuck at the job of saving the world [& himself] by keeping the rift from growing, which he finds boring.
So Tsukiko beats Haley and hauls her in for questioning [aka torture and murder]. However Xykon has an idea of how to seal the Rift, so he can get back to finding the next Gate. And this involves Haley doing some heroics, possibly aided by Tsukiko and O-Chul. So he gives Haley an offer she can't refuse [and might throw in Raising Roy]. Then we have some heroics that seal the rift. Xykon drops the spell and heads off to the next Gate, with the party in pursuit.
Sorry for the lack of visible post, gonna reply to a spoiler with a spoiler:
I'm pretty sure Xykon and Redcloak are working to enslave the Snarl, or else to obtain its power. The ability to destroy gods on a whim is something I'd bet both of them find personally very appealing.

[Zarah]

I have a dubious idea which might require that she lose here.
We have no good reason for Xykon to cast his big spell, except that he is crazy enough to do most anything just at a whim. So maybe he has a very good reason. He saw the rift was growing and not wanting an escaped Snarl, he cast the spell to prevent the rift from growing even more. Now he is stuck at the job of saving the world [& himself] by keeping the rift from growing, which he finds boring.
So Tsukiko beats Haley and hauls her in for questioning [aka torture and murder]. However Xykon has an idea of how to seal the Rift, so he can get back to finding the next Gate. And this involves Haley doing some heroics, possibly aided by Tsukiko and O-Chul. So he gives Haley an offer she can't refuse [and might throw in Raising Roy]. Then we have some heroics that seal the rift. Xykon drops the spell and heads off to the next Gate, with the party in pursuit.

I'd sooner see Xykon leaving everyone high and dry before trying to "save the world" by himself. If he really felt threatened, he probably would have just left. Though I can easily see him being bored right now, I'd imagine he'd be ignoring the rift completely.


I'm pretty sure Xykon and Redcloak are working to enslave the Snarl, or else to obtain its power. The ability to destroy gods on a whim is something I'd bet both of them find personally very appealing.

It's explained in SoD that they are. But they also know that without the gates, there's nothing they can do with the rifts. So they're probably just regrouping until they can make a plan to go for the next gate.

[BRC]

I'd sooner see Xykon leaving everyone high and dry before trying to "save the world" by himself. If he really felt threatened, he probably would have just left. Though I can easily see him being bored right now, I'd imagine he'd be ignoring the rift completely.



It's explained in SoD that they are. But they also know that without the gates, there's nothing they can do with the rifts. So they're probably just regrouping until they can make a plan to go for the next gate.
Wait, what if they figure out how to re-build the gates, re-build the AC gate and use it.
Or am I just planting epileptic trees.

[Zarah]

Wait, what if they figure out how to re-build the gates, re-build the AC gate and use it.
Or am I just planting epileptic trees.

Actually, Xykon DOES have Serini's journal, so he might be able to find some way to build a new gate.

But considering Redcloak had to get a hobgoblin to throw an acid-beetle-filled pie at another just to get his attention for a minute, do you REALLY think Xykon would have the attention span to build an epic gate? :smalltongue:

[BRC]

Actually, Xykon DOES have Serini's journal, so he might be able to find some way to build a new gate.

But considering Redcloak had to get a hobgoblin to throw an acid-beetle-filled pie at another just to get his attention for a minute, do you REALLY think Xykon would have the attention span to build an epic gate? :smalltongue:
True, looks like my trees have epilepsy.

[Superglucose]

Round one: Flaming Arrow, 7d6 sneak attack, 1d6 flame, 1d8, magic bonus.
Round two: Full attack, 3* 7d6 sneak attack, 1d6 flame, 1d8 magic bonus.

It's anticlimactic, but if the rogue wins initiative in this duel it's fairly over.

[factotum]

Actually, Xykon DOES have Serini's journal, so he might be able to find some way to build a new gate.


Except Serini had nothing to do with creating the gates...Lirian and Dorukan did that.

[Zarah]

Except Serini had nothing to do with creating the gates...Lirian and Dorukan did that.

True, but Serini could have potentially nabbed some information regarding them and recorded it. It's pretty unlikely, I agree, but it's not impossible.

[David Argall]

I'd sooner see Xykon leaving everyone high and dry before trying to "save the world" by himself. If he really felt threatened, he probably would have just left. Though I can easily see him being bored right now, I'd imagine he'd be ignoring the rift completely.



Xykon is not much interested in saving the world, true. However Xykon is interested in saving himself. If the Snarl gets loose, Xykon is not even a pile of bones. He could not fight it, nor run, nor hide. He would just be history. So if the rift is threatening to open, Xykon needs to stop that to save his own unlife. And as an incidental result Xykon would also be saving the world [a result he does approve of, tho largely because it gives him something to kill.]
So however reluctantly, Xykon would save the world under the circumstances given. He would also, as suggested, be about bored out of his skull, and thus would be eager to recruit Haley or others if he had any idea how to end the stalemate.

[Solmage]

Nice comic! LOVED the wight's shoes, even if I missed them the first time I read it, heh.

As for my guess on the potions.. greater heroism is a given. Protection from evil is likely, if she hasn't gotten an item with that permanent effect on it. Other good choices would be hide from undead, and displacement, although she doesn't seem displaced. Haste is also very likely.

So I guess my choices would be:

Haste
Greater Heroism
Protection From Evil

[Twilight Jack]

Except Serini had nothing to do with creating the gates...Lirian and Dorukan did that.

Start of Darkness Spoiler
You mean the Lirian and Dorukan whose souls are currently occupying a gem in Xykon's possession?

[factotum]

SoD spoiler:


And what makes you think they'd tell Xykon anything? They don't exactly have any reason to LIKE him...

[Twilight Jack]

SoD spoiler:


And what makes you think they'd tell Xykon anything? They don't exactly have any reason to LIKE him...


Nothing at all leads me to believe that they'd willingly divulge info to Xykon. I'm merely pointing out that Serini's journals aren't the only resources available.

Their dislike of Xykon doesn't preclude, however, the various options from divination through blackmail that two souls on ice places in the hands of an epic-level sorcerer.

Also, if he's looking to reseal the gate over Azure City to keep the Snarl from escaping uncontrolled, then they may have little choice but to help him do so. Sure, he's looking to use the gates to take control of the thing, but helping him to rebuild the Azure City gate at least delays the destruction of creation long enough to give someone a chance to stop it. If the Snarl busts loose from it's prison, then everyone's dead now.

[xwd]

But Roy already did, and this ain't Yuck-Gi-Oh.

Explain how he can have a subplot around himself if he's dead. Well, okay, it's in the afterlife, so I get your point.
To me "death" means completely dropped from the story, either by "leaving" forever or dying and having no chance of coming back to life. Having subplots means that to some degree Roy's still alive plot-wise.

[Doctor Zuber]

I actually tend to agree. I think Tsukiko is going to get soundly trounced. While I find it painfully funny to contemplate since any of a number of spells could EASILY cripply haley's ability to hurt her.

Stoneskin

with the 10/+5 DR of stoneskin it would be difficult to do sufficient damage to hurt even a d4 cloth caster signifigantly.

With this one simple spell, The fight is effectively over. Haley would simply be unable to do sufficient damage to Tsukiko because the DR of of stoneskin would be making every single attack do 10 less damage. It's pretty hard to do more than 10 damage with an arrow. This is a 4th level spell. Tsukiko has already demonstrated that she can cast cause critical wounds so having looking up the mystic theurge I realize that she does have access to stoneskin. If Tsukiko is not retarded, she will have stoneskin and she will have cast it when she responded to the alert.

Couple other spells to consider. Mage armor, Haste, and Shield. Mage armor is another classic meat and gravy spell for 4 more AC with a really long duration. Haste and shield are both short duration spells that have one thing in common. they both grant +7 ac. MageArmor + Haste would be the better choice since it grants an extra partial action and doesn't care about suprise attacks. MageArmor + shield would still at least generate +8 Ac even from the back. +11 if she is not flatfooted.

Either of these spell stacks would probably be sufficient to prevent Haley from hitting Tsukiko sufficiently to kill her quickly. This would simply require her to have cast the spell off panel right before calling Haley out. (Mage Armor is sort of assumed to be cast, simply because it is another common meat and gravy spell with a duration of one hour a level.)

Bottom Line? Stoneskin would be first choice. but Mage Armor + Haste, or even simply Mage Armor + Shield would probably be sufficient for Tsukiko to fend off Haleys attacks and hit her back hard with some attacks of her own.

The real question should not be whether or not Haley can beat Tsukiko, the real question is whether or not Tsukiko is retarded.

[Senko]

I suddenly have this image of Xykon slowly building an epic while in the background legions of hobgoblins torture each other in various painful ways (regularly slipping offstage for healing) in order to maintain his interest in the project. The food being brought in because he keeps getting distracted so they expect it to take awhile.:smallsmile: Seriously I think he's laying in supplies for the trip to the next gate but that's not nearly as fun.

[lord_khaine]

stoneskin gives damage reduction 10/adamantine in 3.5.

and though it isnt very relavant since haley proberly dont have any adamantine arrows, then considdering that each arrow will proberly
do 8d6+1d8+unknow magic bonus of at least +1, giving a average of 33.5 per arrow, if haley wins initiative that would result in 4 arrows, or 4*23.5 when you factor in a theoretical stoneskin, that requires 250 gp worth of diamond dust.

besides that haste only gives +1 ac bonus, and no aditional action, while shield gives a +4 bonus.

even with all of those up Tsukiko would only have a ac of 19 when flat footed (including mage armor), something that haley can easely hit.

[Epinephrine]

I actually tend to agree. I think Tsukiko is going to get soundly trounced. While I find it painfully funny to contemplate since any of a number of spells could EASILY cripply haley's ability to hurt her.

Stoneskin

with the 10/+5 DR of stoneskin it would be difficult to do sufficient damage to hurt even a d4 cloth caster signifigantly.

Agreed that Stoneskin is a good spell in general, but if Tsukiko is surprised and loses initiative, as pointed out above, she could be on the receiving end of a world of hurt. Haley's a 13th+ level rogue, and can deliver a lot of damage. We're not sure what bonuses she has on bow/arrows (it would seem odd if they didn't have some magical bonuses), but even with 10 damage subtracted from each arrow her mean damage on 1d8+7d6+1d6+magic bonus (say~ +2 or 3 total magic bonus) could easily be 30 per arrow, or 120 from the 4 arrows hypothesized above. Subtracting 40 from that still leaves a rather substantial 80 damage on average. Assuming Tsukiko is similar in level she'll have some 3 or so d8 levels and a majority (10?) of d4 levels; even assuming a +1 Con bonus, rolling max on every die that'd give her 24+40+13 = 77 HP. So Haley can, on an average roll of damage, drop Tsukiko right through a Stoneskin spell, even if Tsukiko has a Con bonus and rolls max on all dice. If she rolls average HP (and starts cleric) she'd have less than 80 HP without about a +4 con bonus.