Haley/Tsukiko

[Felixaar]

Just realised what is so odd about the whole Haley/Tsukiko thing. They know eachothers names.

I mean, doesn't that seem weird? Its not like they ever would have paid attention at hearing them before - I cant even think if they'd met in any seen-scene's.

The only person who knows Haley's name, in the entirety of team evil, would be Redcloak (though even thats doubtful, since he referred to them as "Greenhilt and his buddies"), and we all know that - at last sight - Tsukiko's relationship with him was rocky at best and unlikely to have improved off screen.

Thus the only conclusion I can reach is that, either post war or possibly pre oots, Haley and Tsukiko have had some sort of confrontation wherein they learnt eachothers names (also note that Tsukiko and Haley's self hate have similarities, though not identical).

Any Thoughts?

[monty]

I would assume that they (Team Evil) have captured at least one resistance member at some point, and tortured them for information, probably getting, among other things, the names of resistance leaders. As for Haley knowing Tsukiko's name, I can't really think of anything.

[Milandros]

Some months have gone by. I suspect Haley and Tsusiko have run into each other more than once - the legendary leader of the resistance and the evil commander of "black squadron" sent to hunt her down... it's about as solid a literary heritage as you can get. :smallsmile:

Plus, Tsusiko was around during all the pre-battle time, when she was given the option to fight for AC. She likely first saw the OoTS there.

[NikkTheTrick]

Tsushiko is a relatively high ranking member in society that occupies AC. So, it is likely her name would be known to slaves. Since that is likely not the first time Haley attempts rescue, it is likely she heard Tsushiko's name from one of the people she rescued.

O'chul may know about Haley, so they might got information from him. Or, as Monty said, they interrogated a captured rebel.

[sikyon]

Maybe *gasp* it isn't the first time they fought, and I dunno, asked each other their names.

[Felixaar]

I guess. They just seem to know eachother very well, its hard to forget the three months thing.

[Draz74]

I was thinking about this, and I was worried that Tsukiko might have learned Haley's name from torturing information out of O-chul.

[NikkTheTrick]

I was thinking about this, and I was worried that Tsukiko might have learned Haley's name from torturing information out of O-chul.
Other resistance members might have been tortured also. I guess rampant torture and slavery might hurt AC tourism. Imagine how their pamphlets will look like: "Come to the Asure City. We will mail your fingernails back to your family for free!"

[Forealms]

I assume that Haley has been captured or something similar but has escaped. In 514 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0514.html), Tsukiko says:

"I'm coming for you, and this time, you won't slip away into the darkness."

I further surmise that Haley, Tsukiko, or both had their names called out in the fight where Haley was captured by some allies. Beyond that, I can only imagine.

[JonathanC]

I was thinking about this, and I was worried that Tsukiko might have learned Haley's name from torturing information out of O-chul.
Somehow I doubt she could have managed to pry him away from the MiTD.

[NikkTheTrick]

Somehow I doubt she could have managed to pry him away from the MiTD.
She would not have to. MiTD is a torture instrument in itself. "Now, let us have a wedding (and the wedding night :smalleek: ) between Mr. Stiffy and that dead general."

[factotum]

As already stated, Tsukiko started out on Azure City's side during the battle, and so it's entirely reasonable that her and Haley might have spoken prior to the siege starting. As for saying Haley wouldn't slip away this time, I took that as meaning that Tsukiko has TRIED to capture her before, but failed--I don't think Haley has necessarily ever been imprisoned.

[Felixaar]

She would not have to. MiTD is a torture instrument in itself. "Now, let us have a wedding (and the wedding night :smalleek: ) between Mr. Stiffy and that dead general."

You make a spectacularly vomit-inducing comment. Congratulations!

[Amras Seer]

1st Battle:

Chain lightning

Sneak attack

Hi I'm Tsukiko, who are you

I'm Haley

Great to meet you

Where were we.......Oh yes

Meteor.

[fwiffo]

So, is it wrong of me to see a thread with a title "Haley / Tsukiko", and expect to find some actual slash in it?

[Oeep Snaec]

Here's an idea: What if they used to be lovers? Eh? Eh?

[the_tick_rules]

so cause tsukiko can cast spells she wins automatically?

[NikkTheTrick]

You make a spectacularly vomit-inducing comment. Congratulations!
Thank you. The pleasure was mine :smallredface:

[Craig1f]

so cause tsukiko can cast spells she wins automatically?

She may not automatically win, but she won't easily lose. She can just teleport away before Haley does enough damage.

[multilis]

Who says its a two way battle? Its been 3 months, long enough for Miko to have been smuggled out, rezzed and come back in the nick of time to battle both of the other chicks. ;)

[TigerHunter]

Who says its a two way battle? Its been 3 months, long enough for Miko to have been smuggled out, rezzed and come back in the nick of time to battle both of the other chicks. ;)
Hopefully the Jello pit will be available this time around.

[Lyesmith]

Or the Emrboidery Contest rules.

[TRM]

Here's an idea: What if they used to be lovers? Eh? Eh?
No! Haley and Tsukiko is thog and thelkras brothers, fer realz!

[TheOOB]

Tsukiko has an advantage from being a spellcaster, but she's also a mystic theurge which is a very underpowered build. Haley also likely has a few levels on her which gives her an advantage.

I'm sure they have fought eachother a few times before now, and I'd imagine each battle lasted a couple rounds with Haley running away before reinforcements could arrive. It's a standard trope, where the hero and villian meet eachother several times, oftentimes even under semi-friendly circumstances, before their final battle.

[Prince_Rohan]

Here's an idea: What if they used to be lovers? Eh? Eh?

Only over Haley's dead body.


(I can't believe I was the first one to reply with that - we're slipping here people!)

[Sc00by]

of course they may have met around here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)

[shadowdemon_lord]

So, is it wrong of me to see a thread with a title "Haley / Tsukiko", and expect to find some actual slash in it?

That exact same thought popped into my head...then I realized these are the wrong forums for such things.

[thx1138]

This is just an idea of something unexpected in the fight. Tsukiko's is kicking the crap out of Haley until Tsukiko's natural (?) protection from undead is disrupted. She bumps/falls against the wight and her levels are drained. The wight sucks her dry. Haley sits back and watches until Tsukiko is level 1 or 2 then plunges her last arrow into her chest, killing her.

[Spiky]

of course they may have met around here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)

Possibly, although I don't think Haley was there. Off-screen possibly, I know. But I think she was actually in a completely different place at the time. In the battle, too. OOTS was at the outer wall of the city, Tsukiko at the inner wall. 446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)

I'm pretty sure that G had Tsukiko mention the previous fights (postwar) in order to show how they would know each other.

[monty]

This is just an idea of something unexpected in the fight. Tsukiko's is kicking the crap out of Haley until Tsukiko's natural (?) protection from undead is disrupted. She bumps/falls against the wight and her levels are drained. The wight sucks her dry. Haley sits back and watches until Tsukiko is level 1 or 2 then plunges her last arrow into her chest, killing her.

Wights only drain levels with their slam attacks (see the SRD entry here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm)). Merely touching them isn't an issue, and Tsukiko likely has control over the wights, so they won't attack her.

[hamishspence]

Mystic theurge underpowered?

Initially it had a huge reputation as OVERpowered, its at its best when high level. But at low level, yes. Main weakness is when going against pure casters, however for total spells, and synergy (buff up then blast with arcane spells) it was a popular build.

Best builds worked with classes with same prime stat: Favored Soul/Sorcerer meant no split class problems. I think cleric/wu jen might be good, cannot remember if wu jen use Wisdom or not.

5wiz-5Cleric-10 mystic theurge = CL 15 Wiz, CL 15 Cleric, on a 20th level character.

In epic levels, it could be even nastier, since curve weakens some after 20th level. a 30th level wizard would have to pick spells carefully and not choose ones that fit poorly since he has not got that many more spell slots.

A 30th level (10/10/10) mystic theurge character, by contrast, would have a LOT more spell slots.

[Varachan]

A MT will probably lose a straight-up duel to either a pure cleric or pure arcanist, but that's not the point.

It's an excellent toolbox character for a group. You can hand out protection from energy spells like hotcakes, have plenty of slots left for low-level but useful spells like haste, dispel magic, fly, restoration, and so forth.

[Lorn]

Last line, first column on 518.

"That's why after our last fight..."

They've fought before, and if the chimaera (very early on) said what it was called then I think Tsukiko would as well.

And it'd be easy enough to get Haley's name.

[Cifer]

5wiz-5Cleric-10 mystic theurge = CL 15 Wiz, CL 15 Cleric, on a 20th level character.
That means no 9th level spells when they've been flying around for about 3 levels by that time. Doesn't sound that strong to me.

[Kish]

That means no 9th level spells when they've been flying around for about 3 levels by that time. Doesn't sound that strong to me.
Of course, you don't have to keep the divine and arcane classes equal. That mystic theurge could as easily be Cleric 3/Wizard 7/Mystic Theurge 10, and have ninth level (arcane) spells already.

[Talya]

I was almost hoping this was a slash-fiction post.

[Voyager_I]

The Mystic Theurge is underpowered in the sense that it's worse off than simply following either class exclusively. Powerful spells are better than having lots of low-level spells, especially since you still only get to cast one of them per turn.

[Worira]

If you really want to be two caster classes at once, Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 gives 9th level druid and wizard spells, Dire Bear wildshape, and a Tyrannosaurus familiar, as well as some other nifty stuff.

[factotum]

The Mystic Theurge is underpowered in the sense that it's worse off than simply following either class exclusively. Powerful spells are better than having lots of low-level spells, especially since you still only get to cast one of them per turn.

Also, since encounters in a typical D&D game are specifically balanced so that the primary casters aren't likely to run out of spell slots, all the extra spell slots provided by being a Mystic Theurge simply aren't all that helpful.

[Kish]

If you really want to be two caster classes at once, Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 gives 9th level druid and wizard spells, Dire Bear wildshape, and a Tyrannosaurus familiar, as well as some other nifty stuff.
...Holy crap. :smallredface:

This is why I hate prestige classes.

[Talya]

...Holy crap. :smallredface:

This is why I hate prestige classes.

It's still not as powerful as 20 wizard.

[factotum]

Well, if that combo can cast 9th level spells then it probably IS as powerful as 20th level wizard--trouble is, you have to be level 22 in order to pull it off. At level 20 the combo listed would only have access to 8th level spells and thus WOULD be notably inferior to a pure caster of the same level.

[Worira]

Umm. No. You end up with 3 levels each of druid and wizard, 10 of Arcane Hierophant, and 4 of MT. 17 levels of both druid and wizard casting, at level 20.

[Rutee]

If you really want to be two caster classes at once, Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 gives 9th level druid and wizard spells, Dire Bear wildshape, and a Tyrannosaurus familiar, as well as some other nifty stuff.
...Uh, no? Mystic Theurge only levels your spellcasting. It EXPLICITLY states that other features, like the Familiar, don't get better as you level in it.


I was almost hoping this was a slash-fiction post.
...Well now that someone else admitted it..

[Leewei]

...Uh, no? Mystic Theurge only levels your spellcasting. It EXPLICITLY states that other features, like the Familiar, don't get better as you level in it.

Arcane Hierophant is similar to Mystic Theurge, however it combines druid and wizard class feature progression with spell progression. If you consider MT to be unbalanced, consider AH utterly broken.

[Worira]

Ah, yes, forgot to mention. For the Tyrannosaurus companion, you need to take the Natural Bond feat from Complete Adventurer, giving you +3 to your effective druid level for the purpose of animal companions.

[Nargrakhan]

The MT is powerful – there's no question about it. However the key factor is how your GM is handling the campaign and what the other players are doing.

For example in a vanilla setting with a lot of undead, the cleric and paladin reign supreme. Same goes for MT. In a campaign where the GM does not allow spellcasters time to rest and recover their spells, the MT is a life saver.

In the second example, if your vanilla setting party consist of a Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue – then your MT will be an absolute hero. However if your party consists of a Druid, Sorcerer, and Cleric... well... that MT is gonna be a sad person.

They key of the matter is the FACTORS which the MT is forced into and within. The concept for the MT is gold – as are the mechanics for it. The problem is people don't know how to use the tool properly, and most situations don't require such a tool.

Heh... I said tool... :smalltongue: