Linear Guild origins/relation to Xykon?

[Sniffnoy]

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but I can't find it.

Does anyone have any explanation for how Xykon hired Nale to kill the Order of the Stick? It doesn't make sense that Xykon would have even known of the Order before they entered the Dungeon of Dorukan, especially as they formed only a few days beforehand. He could have just hired Nale to guard the dungeon, but that doesn't make much sense either; Nale's statement about using the Order to get the Talisman implies that he at least was told, when he was hired, that there were adventurers he was after. So either Xykon somehow hired Nale remotely after the Order of the Stick entered his dungeon (??); or Xykon found out about the Order's plan to destroy him, and was worried enough to hire Nale (unlikely); or he found out about the Linear Guild when they entered the Dungeon of Dorukan, and hired him as they were after the Talisman, not him (why would he do that?). Or perhaps Xykon knew Nale from beforehand - meeting him after finding out the location of Dorukan's gate but before taking over the dungeon, hired him to take care of any adventurers that might come by (Nale might have offered, as he was after the Talisman), and he has some way of quickly transporting Nale there?

But then there's also the problem of the "evil opposites" theme. Nale's comment in comic 252 about his goatee implies that the "evil opposites" theme was deliberate from the start. (Although, I suppose it could just be a throwaway joke. And we do know Sabine was sent by the archfiends to help Nale, rather than picked out by him.) But this leaves Nale very little time to have formed the Guild, considering when the Order formed, when they met in Xykon's dungeon, and how long it took Nale to find replacements later.

So... huh? Does anyone have any explanation for this?

[Alex Warlorn]

Those, are very good questions.

Maybe the original Linear Guild were mostly minions who Nale got on request from dear old dad?

Though again, a lot of your questions are good ones, ones I wonder if even the DM bothered to think about.

[factotum]

The simple explanation is: A Wizard Did It. :smallbiggrin:

[The Extinguisher]

More like: A Sorceror Did It :smallamused:

[Nerd-o-rama]

I thought the Aboleth did it.

Anyway, my guess is that Nale had been stalking his brother for a while, possibly just getting his location and companions via Divination spells, waiting to make his move. When he figured out Elan was going to the Dungeon of Dorukan and approximately whom he was going with, he hired on a group of equivalent evil adventurers (fortunately, he was already palling around with a succubus who could pretend to be a rogue), headed to the Dungeon ahead of the Order (party members with Flight help) and presented himself to the Lich who was running the place as a mercenary.

[The Extinguisher]

I thought the Aboleth did it.

The Aboleth Sorceror did it.

Anyway, I'm guessing that's why we need a Linear Guild backstory book.

[FujinAkari]

I personally think that Nale simply lied about having been hired by Xykon. Xykon, Redcloak, & co have certainly never indicated even being aware of Nale's existence, much less any sort of allegiance with him (Xykon doesn't tend to form partnerships, and Redcloak certainly doesn't seem the type to accept a human adventuring party as allies!)

However, it DOES seem entirely within Nale's character to arbitrarily lie about his relationship with Xykon, if for no other reason than to throw up smoke about his true motives and to sour the off-chance that the Order and Xykon might not be on hostile terms.

it is a bit of a stretch, I admit, but it seems the most workable theory!

[Nerdanel]

It's a virtual fact that Nale and company was hired by Xykon. See http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html The discount mercenaries Redcloak refers to are almost certainly the Linear Guild, and by "almost certainly" I mean "certainly" unless you want to assume some really bizarre and contrived explanation, like an Aboleth sorcerer influencing things offscreen.

[Studoku]

Discount mercenaries refers to Trigak.

[OverWilliam]

^ But what does 'MORE discount mercenaries' refer to?

[factotum]

Discount mercenaries refers to Trigak.

No it doesn't, because he was already dead at the point where Redcloak says "More discount mercenaries". Also, in strip #97, Xykon said "That worthless buffoon Nale told me how." Given Xykon's inability to remember names at the best of times, it seems unlikely beyond belief that he would remember Nale unless he had a closer connection to him than just watching him through a crystal ball.

Oh, and one other thing--Nale said that Xykon hired him to kill the Order, and he didn't really have any reason to lie about it, did he? He'd already defeated them at that point.

[Querzis]

Axel is right, thats why we need a Linear Guild backstory book. Honestly I have no idea, we dont even know if Nale was after his brother or the talisman in the first place. But of course, the real reasons I want a Linear Guild backstory is this: «Because no one denies me, Elan. Not father not you, no ones» Is Elan and Nale father still alive or did Nale killed him in his sleep. And if he did, how come hes not the new general of his father army?

So yeah, we dont really know for sure. But the Giant is probably going to tell us eventually.

[mockingbyrd7]

Anyway, my guess is that Nale had been stalking his brother for a while, possibly just getting his location and companions via Divination spells, waiting to make his move. When he figured out Elan was going to the Dungeon of Dorukan and approximately whom he was going with, he hired on a group of equivalent evil adventurers (fortunately, he was already palling around with a succubus who could pretend to be a rogue), headed to the Dungeon ahead of the Order (party members with Flight help) and presented himself to the Lich who was running the place as a mercenary.

I like this theory. It makes sense.


<snip>...in strip #97, Xykon said "That worthless buffoon Nale told me how." Given Xykon's inability to remember names at the best of times, it seems unlikely beyond belief that he would remember Nale unless he had a closer connection to him than just watching him through a crystal ball.

Oh, and one other thing--Nale said that Xykon hired him to kill the Order, and he didn't really have any reason to lie about it, did he? He'd already defeated them at that point.

Tis the truth, I say! Xykon and Nale were in communication, and Nale had no reason to lie. The evil villain NEVER lies when gloating about his evil plan. What's the point? He's already won!


Anyway, I'm guessing that's why we need a Linear Guild backstory book.

I don't think we'll get that at least until we learn who Elan/Nale's father is. But yes, I'd love a Linear Guild backstory book.

[David Argall]

OK, the facts we know.
Nale & friends were hired by Xykon as one of several efforts to eliminate this annoying band of adventurers.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html
At this time, he seems to have no obsession with his brother. One can be written in, and likely should be, but Brother's death seems to be just an incidental.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0257.html

So as to the questions....



Does anyone have any explanation for how Xykon hired Nale to kill the Order of the Stick?
Xykon had Redcloak call up Discount Underlings Delivered Shortly when he was told the party had entered the dungeon and had won a battle or two. The Linear Guild was one of those sent out.
Nale already had his own plans for the Dungeon of Dorukan and it was merely luck that he got the chance to kill two birds with one stone.


But then there's also the problem of the "evil opposites" theme. Nale's comment in comic 252 about his goatee implies that the "evil opposites" theme was deliberate from the start. (Although, I suppose it could just be a throwaway joke. And we do know Sabine was sent by the archfiends to help Nale, rather than picked out by him.) But this leaves Nale very little time to have formed the Guild, considering when the Order formed, when they met in Xykon's dungeon, and how long it took Nale to find replacements later.

Nale was into this evil opposite theme long ago, but he didn't know who Elan would have as companions, so he visited the Oracle. Unfortunately for him, he asked what companions he would need for that theme that would end with Elan bleeding to death, instead of asking for those that would kill Elan. So the oracle gave him the way to meet Throg and the others.

[Kish]

Nale's plan was to recruit Elan, not kill him. He only wants to kill Elan for the unforgivable insult of saying, "I can't join you right now, Brother."

[The Wanderer]

Xykon is fairly genre savvy, and knows the conventions for stories like this. During Start of Darkness one of his throwaway lines in recruiting the MITD is that he's got a Big Plan going, and when that's the case it's only a matter of time until some adventurers come and try to mess it up.

I figure that when he was at Dorukan's place it was either fairly common for adventuring parties to come around, or Xykon had a set of different measures to be ready for it.

[Felixaar]

More like: A Sorceror Did It :smallamused:

You guys are way off. It was Sea Turtles.

[monty]

He found them. In Mercia.

[The Extinguisher]

So a Sorceror Half-Aboleth Sea Turtle living in Mercia did it?

[monty]

Are you suggesting that Sorcerer Half-Aboleth Sea Turtles migrate? I suppose they could be carried, though. Damn, that must be a big bird.

[Newtkeeper]

Are you suggesting that Sorcerer Half-Aboleth Sea Turtles migrate? I suppose they could be carried, though. Damn, that must be a big bird.

An African Roc could have carried it.

But not a Faerunian Roc, that's my point.

But then, of course, African Rocs are non-migratory.