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Aiylithe
2007-12-31, 07:53 PM
War Cleric
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th
1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Bonus Feat|3|0
2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|-|4|1
3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|-|4|2|0
4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Bonus Feat|5|2|1
5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|-|5|3|2|0
6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|-|5|3|2|1
7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|-|5|3|3|2|0
8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6|Bonus Feat|5|4|3|2|1
9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6|-|5|4|3|3|2|0
10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|-|5|4|4|3|2|1
11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|-|5|4|4|3|3|2|0
12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Bonus Feat|5|4|4|4|3|2|1
13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|-|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|0
14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|-|5|4|4|4|4|3|2|1
15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+5|
+9|-|5|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|0
16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Bonus Feat|5|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1
17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|-|5|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|0
18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|-|5|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|1
19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|-|5|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|3|2
20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Bonus Feat|5|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|3|3[/table]

Skill Points: 2+int Modifier
Hid Die: d8
--- --- ---

The War Cleric is the one who actually knows how to use his deity's holy weapon. He sacrifices the things that make a Cleric a Cleric in exchange for more skill points and bonus feats. The War Cleric gives up the ability to Turn or Rebuke undead, Domain Spells, and the ability to spontaneously cast Cure or Inflict. He also loses one spell per day.

In exchange, he gains a bonus feat every four levels.

--- --- ---

The War Cleric operates on the fringes of his church as a never completely accepted but invaluable operative. He is much more selfish than an ordinary cleric, and spends more time taking care of himself and his equipment than curing the sick or feeding the poor. Other clerics look down on him for this, but none can deny his prowess. War Clerics are usually independent servants of their cause and have few if any official ties to organized churches, though some lawful War Clerics may set up and run independent temples to their deity.

Adventuring War Clerics sometimes stop at shrines and temples to take advantage of free aid and a place to rest, but do not stay long and have little to offer in exchange for the hospitality. War Clerics are more likely to betray their faith and turn towards evil (or good), and are often treated with some wariness by church officials. Because religion plays a less central role in their lives, they can cast any spell regardless of the spell's alignment, though doing so may have effects on the Cleric's alignment, at the DMs discretion.

--- --- ---

Kay... edited it. I changed the number of bonus feats, got rid of Dedication, and put the skill points back to normal. I think this is a bit more balanced... though perhaps the spells should be cut back a bit more... maybe he would gain new spell levels a level later than usual? My expert DM here next to me says that's a good idea... I'm gonna put that in too. :smallbiggrin: He ends up with the same number of spells, in the end, but he gets them a level later than usual... he does have the chance to get a bonus spell at the regular timing, though, so if he's particularly wise he can get by. Tell me what you think!

smart thog
2007-12-31, 08:16 PM
Cool. A evil cleric that is not a negative channeler. Let them have their regular skill points and give them back their spell slot. This is perfect for Hextorian clerics, kobold wardens, and drow clerics, all of which do not often use negative energy.

arkanis
2007-12-31, 09:29 PM
Very cool idea. Being a player of battle clerics, I salute you.

I think though, it might be just a tad overpowered because it gets almost as many feats as a fighter in addition to almost as many spells as a cleric.

Why do they get more skill points though? Fighter-types usually have the same as clerics.

Aiylithe
2007-12-31, 11:02 PM
This was originally my solution to an odd problem... I needed a PC class for a Howler, and I wanted it to be a cleric. But Cleric wasn't an associated class for them, so I overpowered it a little bit to compensate. Howlers have a -2 penalty to Int, and I wanted it to have more than 1 skill point each level.

The skill points can be put back to 2+Int/Level and the spell slots returned to make it better for human PCs.... human clerics don't have a huge need for skills, but Howler clerics do.

There are a lot of feats, yes.... it could be changed to every 4th level (1, 4, 8, etc) to make it more balanced, but I was trying to munchkin it a little bit. :smallwink:

Hooray for not-quite-so-sissy Clerics!

StickMan
2008-01-01, 01:29 AM
Hooray for not-quite-so-sissy Clerics!

Statement Input Error Does Not Compute!!!

Explain to me how the most powerful class in the game Melee or other wise is sissy.

Also if you return the extra spells the class becomes highly unbalanced and really it does not give up much as is.

Sure it will never be a true Codzilla because of the lack of turn undead to spend on divine metamagic but it pisses on the all ready ashed body of the fighter even more because of the number of feats and Dedication, which is just overpowered in my opinion as most base classes don't give stats up. (To be fair I've broken that rule).

What it gives up really is not enough to make up for what it gains. I know you said its supposed to be overpowered for your game, but if your posting it for review you should tone it down.

My 2cp,
Stickman.

arkanis
2008-01-01, 02:07 AM
I think every 4th level is a good idea.

Howlers as characters? Huh, I'd never thought of that.

Woah woah woah!

Did you just call normal clerics sissies? That's crossing the line man. I've played enough War domain clerics to know just how non-sissy they are.

Take it back. *shakes fist with righteous might*

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-01, 02:46 AM
Yeah, this doesn't give up nearly enough for what it gets. I'd suggest losing Dedication entirely, and slowing the feat progression to every fourth level if you want this to be balanced, and even then I'm not sure. However, if you're DM for this game, whatever you say goes. I myself would never allow this into one of my games as is.

Also, sissy clerics? What are you smoking?

brian c
2008-01-01, 12:43 PM
Yeah, this doesn't give up nearly enough for what it gets. I'd suggest losing Dedication entirely, and slowing the feat progression to every fourth level if you want this to be balanced, and even then I'm not sure. However, if you're DM for this game, whatever you say goes. I myself would never allow this into one of my games as is.

Also, sissy clerics? What are you smoking?

Agreed. Also, that +2 to Strength and Wisdom is entirely unnecessary, and just serves to make a very strong character even stronger. If this class exists, there would be absolutely no reason to ever play a regular cleric or a fighter. Really, you can be good enough at fighting with the standard cleric class.

Aiylithe
2008-01-03, 07:53 AM
Okay, okay.... only good clerics are sissies. :smallwink:

And I was kidding, anyway... Cleric is my favourite class. :smalltongue:

But, you're right, it's not good for any average PCs. I agree with your revisions, as well... it does need to be toned down. I'm going to go through and edit it a bit, and then we'll see how it turns out. Thank you for the suggestions!

Umarth
2008-01-03, 09:48 AM
Why do this as a base class rather than as a PrC?

To me this screams Prestige class.