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Arioch
2008-01-01, 05:05 AM
At the start of the first chapter of Weapons of Legacy, it lists three example legacy items - Stormbringer, Excalibur and...The One Ring

Uh, what?

How is the Ring a legacy item? it doesn't get stronger as you level, for one thing. I would have thought it was a major artifact.

I was wondering if anyone here can present a strong case for the Ring being legacy.

Chronicled
2008-01-01, 05:09 AM
Well, Excaliber didn't get more powerful as Arthur "levelled," either. Nor did its sheath (which was so much better than the sword itself).

Xefas
2008-01-01, 05:15 AM
I was wondering if anyone here can present a strong case for the Ring being legacy.

Well, Wizards of the Coast said it. They can't just print lies!

That's how we know that Robin Hood is Chaotic because he doesn't follow the law of the land; that magic that creates an infinite amount of something in exchange for nothing doesn't really screw up the universe; that even though an empty container weighs 1.5 lbs, if you fill it with something it weighs 1 lb; wizards are balanced; and a bear plus an owl is way scarier and deadly than a bear.

Tola
2008-01-01, 06:16 AM
How is the Ring a legacy item? it doesn't get stronger as you level, for one thing.

Don't be so sure.

Frodo asked Galadriel why he couldn't do some of the things Sauron's capable of doing with The One Ring. She said, basically, that he would need to get stronger, and turn his mind to being like Sauron's.

....Basically, he needs to level up to get the best out of it.

MammonAzrael
2008-01-01, 06:22 AM
How is the Ring a legacy item? it doesn't get stronger as you level, for one thing.

Don't be so sure.

Frodo asked Galadriel why he couldn't do some of the things Sauron's capable of doing with The One Ring. She said, basically, that he would need to get stronger, and turn his mind to being like Sauron's.

....Basically, he needs to level up to get the best out of it.

Nooo...basically he needs to become Sauron. The power is there for the abusing, but you have to know how to use it. It's having a major artifact and not knowing all it's triggers.

The One Ring is a Major Artifact with one hell of an Ego.
Excalibur and it's sheath are both minor artifacts.
Dunno what myth Stormbringer is from.

Basically, whoever wrote "Weapons of Legacy" screwed up.

The Faceless
2008-01-01, 06:30 AM
How is the Ring a legacy item? it doesn't get stronger as you level, for one thing.

Don't be so sure.

Frodo asked Galadriel why he couldn't do some of the things Sauron's capable of doing with The One Ring. She said, basically, that he would need to get stronger, and turn his mind to being like Sauron's.

....Basically, he needs to level up to get the best out of it.
So you'd have to take levels in the Evil Overlord PRC to activate it?

Armoury99
2008-01-01, 06:31 AM
Actually, the levelling analogy sounds pretty accurate (alongside turning to evil, of course). Gandalf specifically says (of gollum): "He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature."

- FotR, p90

MammonAzrael
2008-01-01, 07:08 AM
perhaps it's closer to a "taint legacy." The more taint you acquire, the more power the Ring offers. Sauron made it, so naturally he can access all of it. Everyone else using it is corrupted, and accumulates taint. More if you actually use it.

Witch
2008-01-01, 07:12 AM
perhaps it's closer to a "taint legacy." The more taint you acquire, the more power the Ring offers. Sauron made it, so naturally he can access all of it. Everyone else using it is corrupted, and accumulates taint. More if you actually use it.
Not really. Gandalf would instantly have way more power than Frodo, if he were to use it, and I wouldn't call him tainted.


The One Ring is a Major Artifact with one hell of an Ego.
Excalibur and it's sheath are both minor artifacts.
Excalibur is a Major Artifact, because it is unique. Any unique artifact is Major, by definition of the term.



Note, my opinion on the One Ring is that it might just be a Major Artifact Item of Legacy. Or just a Major Artifact with triggers, but I don't think Legacy needs to be tossed out as completely inappropriate.

Thrythlind
2008-01-01, 07:22 AM
Nooo...basically he needs to become Sauron. The power is there for the abusing, but you have to know how to use it. It's having a major artifact and not knowing all it's triggers.

The One Ring is a Major Artifact with one hell of an Ego.
Excalibur and it's sheath are both minor artifacts.
Dunno what myth Stormbringer is from.

Basically, whoever wrote "Weapons of Legacy" screwed up.

Actually, The One Ring is the model for the Lich's Phylactery.

I've always felt that the One Ring is more Sauron than the physical body is. The majority of his power, soul and personality is in that ring.

This is why the Ring is so dangerous. Eventually, Sauron decides that getting his old body back is too much trouble and he starts to push the soul out of the body he currently has.


*****

Incidentally, of all the bearers of the Ring, Frodo got the most power out of it.

He actually reached the point of using its powers of command....which is eventually how the Ring was destroyed....Frodo laid a command and curse on Gollum and then the Gollum disobeyed the command and suffered the curse...

So, when Gollum "touched Frodo again" he was subsequently "cast [himself] into the Cracks of Doom."

Only...The Ring hadn't counted on being in Gollum's possession when the curse was enforced.

slight miscalculation.

Either that or Frodo is a lot smarter than we give him credit for and he knew what he was doing when he made that command. Never thought of that....

EvilElitest
2008-01-01, 11:10 AM
Are they even allowed to state the One Ring:smallconfused:
from
EE

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-01, 12:39 PM
Yes, they're allowed to reference it.

What I want to know is why anyone who posts here would ever even bother opening 'Weapons of Legacy'? That thing belongs in the fire. The entire 'legacy item' mechanic sucks.

Prophaniti
2008-01-01, 01:01 PM
Well, Wizards of the Coast said it. They can't just print lies!

That's how we know that Robin Hood is Chaotic because he doesn't follow the law of the land; *snip* and a bear plus an owl is way scarier and deadly than a bear.Chaotic alignment according to PHB means little respect for authority (makes no distinction about what authority), values individual freedom, sometimes trouble working with others. So, yeah, chaotic is a fair alignment for him, but when did WotC stat Robin Hood?

In all fairness, Owlbears were around long before they took over.
Actually, The One Ring is the model for the Lich's Phylactery.

I've always felt that the One Ring is more Sauron than the physical body is. The majority of his power, soul and personality is in that ring.

This is why the Ring is so dangerous. Eventually, Sauron decides that getting his old body back is too much trouble and he starts to push the soul out of the body he currently has.Well, only part of his essence was in the ring, most of it still resided at Barad Dur. Granted he put enough of himself in there to be strikingly close to a phylactery... I guess it's a semantics question.


Incidentally, of all the bearers of the Ring, Frodo got the most power out of it.

He actually reached the point of using its powers of command....which is eventually how the Ring was destroyed....Frodo laid a command and curse on Gollum and then the Gollum disobeyed the command and suffered the curse...

So, when Gollum "touched Frodo again" he was subsequently "cast [himself] into the Cracks of Doom."

Only...The Ring hadn't counted on being in Gollum's possession when the curse was enforced.

slight miscalculation.

Either that or Frodo is a lot smarter than we give him credit for and he knew what he was doing when he made that command. Never thought of that.... Some good points, though the part in quotes should read "cast [himself] into a fire" since Frodo never mentioned the Cracks of Doom. Phrases in quotes should really be exactly what was said, or at least close. Man, I wish Frodo was anywhere near as cool in the movies as he was in the books. Damn you, Elijah Wood(and Peter Jackson)!:smallfurious: Must... not... break.... into... Frodo rant..... ok, it's passed.

Thrythlind
2008-01-01, 02:43 PM
Chaotic alignment according to PHB means little respect for authority (makes no distinction about what authority), values individual freedom, sometimes trouble working with others. So, yeah, chaotic is a fair alignment for him, but when did WotC stat Robin Hood?

In all fairness, Owlbears were around long before they took over.Well, only part of his essence was in the ring, most of it still resided at Barad Dur. Granted he put enough of himself in there to be strikingly close to a phylactery... I guess it's a semantics question.

Some good points, though the part in quotes should read "cast [himself] into a fire" since Frodo never mentioned the Cracks of Doom. Phrases in quotes should really be exactly what was said, or at least close. Man, I wish Frodo was anywhere near as cool in the movies as he was in the books. Damn you, Elijah Wood(and Peter Jackson)!:smallfurious: Must... not... break.... into... Frodo rant..... ok, it's passed.

The actual sentence is "If you touch me again, you shall be cast yourself into the Cracks of Doom" I believe, granted my copies are in storage in who knows which box at the moment... anyway the brackets around himself indicate that the sentence was changed which is acceptable to do so that the quoted material grammatical fits in the new environment.

Matthew
2008-01-01, 03:09 PM
The actual lines are:


Then suddenly, as before under the eaves of the Emyn Muil, Sam saw these two rivals with other vision. A crouching shape, scarcely more than a shadow of a living thing, a creature now wholly ruined and defeated, yet filled with a hideous lust and rage; and before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice.
"Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, p. 979.

Thrythlind
2008-01-01, 05:18 PM
The actual lines are:

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, p. 979.

ah aha....thanks for that!

"out of the wheel of fire"

interesting, I was pretty sure that curse was more from the Ring than Frodo, and that pretty much cinches it.

Though, the fact that Frodo is a figure of white still might mean he had his own little say in the wording.

Cuddly
2008-01-01, 05:25 PM
What I want to know is why anyone who posts here would ever even bother opening 'Weapons of Legacy'? That thing belongs in the fire. The entire 'legacy item' mechanic sucks.

How would you know if you didn't open the book?

EvilElitest
2008-01-01, 05:26 PM
Some good points, though the part in quotes should read "cast [himself] into a fire" since Frodo never mentioned the Cracks of Doom. Phrases in quotes should really be exactly what was said, or at least close. Man, I wish Frodo was anywhere near as cool in the movies as he was in the books. Damn you, Elijah Wood(and Peter Jackson)! Must... not... break.... into... Frodo rant..... ok, it's passed.
come on, do it, you know you want to
But back on topic, i really don't see how the Ring is anything less than a major artifact except for Sauron himself


from
EE

Thrythlind
2008-01-01, 05:47 PM
How would you know if you didn't open the book?

and I know a lot of people that really like the legacy item mechanics and ideas...wish I could afford it actually

[Insert Neat Username Here]
2008-01-01, 06:07 PM
I don't have my book, but aren't there prerequisites for each legacy item's powers? Perhaps you need levels in wizard to use it (Gandalf says that he would be able to use it). Frodo is definitely not a wizard, so he can't use it.

wumpus
2008-01-01, 10:00 PM
Are they even allowed to state the One Ring:smallconfused:
from
EE

The last comic of Phil and Dixie had them at TSR's legal department. They were all saying "circular metal band"

- note Stormbringer is Elric of Melnibone's sword. It steals the souls of all it slays and grants Elric some of that strength. Nasty piece of work (if you really want to go all out evil, try dual wielding it with its twin Mournblade. Of course, this may hurt your roleplaying for a while, since you won't beat the combined ego roll, so you get to roleplay a pair of bloodthirsty swords.)

Prophaniti
2008-01-01, 10:13 PM
The actual lines are:

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, p. 979.

Hmm... I see I was mistaken on that. Could it be time to read the book again already? Didn't I just do it last... (counts the many months it's been) ok, a while ago. I love his writing. I actually had to stop reading for a week when they were going through the plains of Gorgoroth because he brought out the despair so well, I got depressed for real.:smallfrown:

Sorry, I'm trying to derail the thread again. I think it's time to go to bed. Was up all of yesterday, all night for new years, then all day again today... and I'm coming down off all the caffeine:smalleek:!