Shapeshifter druid- the good the bad and the ugly

[Admiral Squish]

Okay, this is a discussion of the shapeshift druid option presented in PHBII, and whether it's any good. So, basically, instead of controlling the form and getting an animal companion, you get wild shape an infinite number of times/day, from first level. You get a flying form at fifth, a large form at 8th, A treant form at 12th, and an elemental form at 16th. Discuss. Good? Bad? Ugly? Worth it?

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

It makes the DMs and the PCs lives easier to deal with by not keeping tons of alternate forms character sheets/notepads and not having to search for and hunt down rules, taking up the pace of the game. This heretofore eliminates the 250+ years old living-in-a-forest-only Elf Druid from transforming into 'That damn crab' or a fleshraker. By this it cuts down on much of the druid cheese. I like it; good variant.

[marjan]

I agree that it is less powerfull than wildshape. But it is usable from lvl1 so you don't have to wait till lvl5 just to do anything by yourself in melee. The loss of animal companion hurts but keeping those around might be to much.

[Starsinger]

The plant form seems a bit strong to me, but over all I like Shapeshift better than wildshape.

[wadledo]

My only problem with it is if you play a nontraditional character(like a plant or aquatic PC race) it becomes very difficult to figure out what the hell's supposed to happen.
With the normal wildshape you can choose and mostly alleviate that problem.
Other than that, I like it.

[marjan]

My only problem with it is if you play a nontraditional character(like a plant or aquatic PC race) it becomes very difficult to figure out what the hell's supposed to happen.
With the normal wildshape you can choose and mostly alleviate that problem.
Other than that, I like it.

You can choose to shapeshift into anything you could wildshape into, so I don't see problem with. Saying that you shapeshift into a some plant is same as wildshaping into it as far as lokks go. The benefits are diferent but that's just mechanic.

[wadledo]

You can choose to shapeshift into anything you could wildshape into, so I don't see problem with. Saying that you shapeshift into a some plant is same as wildshaping into it as far as looks go. The benefits are different but that's just mechanic.

Lets say your a sea kin druid.
Your swimming and you decide to shapeshift.
As per the rules(at level one) you transform into a roughly wolf/large cat type thingy.
*gurgle*

[Admiral Squish]

Lets say your a sea kin druid.
Your swimming and you decide to shapeshift.
As per the rules(at level one) you transform into a roughly wolf/large cat type thingy.
*gurgle*

Traditionally, yes. It does not have to be such. You'd have run it by your DM, but you could turn into anything from a leopard seal to a shark or even an aquatic version of a wolf. The only specification is a bite attack, a +4 bonus to strength, and a natural armor of four.

[wadledo]

Traditionally, yes. It does not have to be such. You'd have run it by your DM, but you could turn into anything from a leopard seal to a shark or even an aquatic version of a wolf. The only specification is a bite attack, a +4 bonus to strength, and a natural armor of four.

And yet some DM's are bastards.
I've had a couple who would rule against that, saying because it says that the land speed becomes 50', the swim speed is non existent.
Also, the early ones become relatively useless at later levels.

[Admiral Squish]

I want to see a dire leopard seal, now...
And a kelp shambling mound.
Maybe the flight form is a flying fish?
Always a water elemental, though...

True, there are some arse-ish DMs, but we try to avoid those, don't we? I suspect there'd be some leniency for an aquatic campaign, same as with the animal companion list growing for water campaigns.

[marjan]

And yet some DM's are bastards.
I've had a couple who would rule against that, saying because it says that the land speed becomes 50', the swim speed is non existent.
Also, the early ones become relatively useless at later levels.

Having a bastard for DM different story. Since you can shift into any of those forms at will fact that early ones becomes useless later doesn't matter. Similar thing happens with wildshape. For early levels crocodile is good but for later levels it's useless so you wildshape into better forms.

[Sucrose]

For the OP: I agree with the above posters: it's much more balanced than Wild Shape. Not only does it limit the number of creatures that a druid can become, but it also makes the Druid's initial physical stats mean something, so the Druid doesn't beast everything, as he'll have to give up at least one physical stat for Wisdom.

That said, for the same reasons as above, I really don't think that letting the druid keep his pet would be unbalanced, except at lower levels. I'd personally do something like let the druid pick between his animal companion and his shapeshifting; he gets the other at level 4, and it functions in all ways as the ability normally would, just at -3 class level.

I'd also make a feat to let the druid remove this -3 from the shapeshifting ability (a feat for the animal companion was already printed in Complete Adventurer).

[Fenix_of_Doom]

I agree that it is less powerfull than wildshape. But it is usable from lvl1 so you don't have to wait till lvl5 just to do anything by yourself in melee. The loss of animal companion hurts but keeping those around might be to much.

There isn't any reason why you can't do anything in melee as druid below lvl 5 if you decide to take decent physical stats. You have: avarge BaB, a scimetar and a shield, Studded leather armour and an animal companion. You'll do fine against most opponents and you can buff yourself against the more powerful.

[marjan]

There isn't any reason why you can't do anything in melee as druid below lvl 5 if you decide to take decent physical stats. You have: avarge BaB, a scimetar and a shield, Studded leather armour and an animal companion. You'll do fine against most opponents and you can buff yourself against the more powerful.

Well, most of wildshaping druids don't have nice physical stats. Enchanting your armor and weapon is bit of waste of money since you won't be using them later. I don't count animal companion as by yourself. Bottomline is: sure you can but most of the time you don't.

[KIDS]

Cuts down on druid cheese, gives you massively less bookkeeping than normal, while still leaving you with useful flavorful tools and excellent rebalance. It's pretty much awesome.

[Admiral Squish]

Wow, quite a response! This should definitely be enough to convince my DM. With a high enough diplomacy check, I might even get an animal companion anyway!

Oh, and one more comment on the aquatic druid thingerry.
Flying form: Slightly magical manta ray.

[Dihan]

My thoughts on shapeshifting in aquatic environments:

Aquatic Shapeshifting

Predator: Shark
Flying: Albatross
Slayer Form: Polar bear
Ocean Avenger: Coral golem

[Chronicled]

Someone wrote up some homebrew feats that would allow you to gain a swim speed, scent, etc when you Shapeshifted (possibly in exchange for not having the form's normal bonus feat at the same time--you'd pick one extra ability or the bonus feat. I'm not entirely sure, it's been a while). If your DM didn't like the swim speed idea, then you could ask him about allowing something like that.