advice for lower LA half-troll

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I've always like trolls (just because they're awesome) and I would really like to make a half-troll, but they have an LA of 4, any advice on how to make this more... reasonable? like LA+2, or would the requirements pretty much make it pointless to be half-troll?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well the STR could be reduced to +4 and the cons to +4 as well with a -4 to wisdom and charisma, the claw and bite attacks could either stay the same or be reduced, or could reduce the fast healing to maybe 3

[Talya]

The concept of what had to happen for the "half troll" to be conceived is too awful to consider.

[Wraithy]

The concept of what had to happen for the "half troll" to be conceived is too awful to consider.

*makes a break for the house of horrors thread*

[Lord_Asmodeus]

House of Horror thread?

[Spiryt]

House of Horror thread?

WARNING
Mind raping content
OotS style House of Horrors (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34493)

[Lord_Asmodeus]

After getting the general gist of that, the sheer number of horrific troll-related things I just thought up could shatter the mind of an Old God, but back on topic, how would I make a lower LA half-troll doable?

[Spiryt]

I would suggest to make him medium in the first place.

[Riffington]

How important is the Fast Healing to you? It's what'll give the race its biggest need for LA.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well I want SOME fast healing, I mean whats a D&D troll without its healing? But I'm willing to give up enough to make a lower LA half-troll workable.

[Bag_of_Holding]

According to DMG pg 173, the penalty of -2 in both Int and Cha balances out the +4 bonus in Str. Likewise, +4 Con bonus is balanced out by -2 penalty in Dex and Cha (making the total Charisma penalty to -4). So it has a balanced ability score (so no LA +1 for having an unbalanced one)
[+0 LA from Ability Score]

Savage Species lists Natural Armour bonus as being worth +1 LA for every 5 points of natural armour. For the sake of balancing things up, I'd say +2 NA instead of the original +4.
[+1 LA from its natural armour]

If we were to make this template worth +2 LA, then the half-troll would be able to do more attacks with its natural attack than the fighter of the same ECL. So, to avoid any complication, I'd say a half-troll lite only has a bite attack.
[+0 LA for having one bite attack only]

Scent quality is worth +1 LA
[+1 LA for having Scent quality]

In addition to this, if we retain Rend and Fast Healing only heals 1 point of damage each round, (as it can be easily duplicated with Lesser Vigor spell then)
[+1 LA for the special ability/quality]

I'd say it would make it a slightly underpowered +3 LA race yet a strong LA +2.


In conclusion, this new half-troll would have:
Ability Score adjustment of +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, -4 Cha
Natural Armour +2
One bite attack
Scent quality
Rend (usable on landing a natural attack or an unarmed attack)
Fast healing 1
LA +2 (explanation below)

Alternative Options:
1. we could also retain the normal Half-troll's ability score adjustment and remove scent (which seems much more benefitial).
2. Swap Scent with two claw attacks and make FH 2 each round not 1.
Both would present doable LA +1 alternative to Scent.



Well, I know it doesn't look very strong for LA +3, so I did some Acid Test:

A 1st level Half-troll Orc Barbarian and a fourth level Orc Barbarian seems very much equal in combat prowess, the latter getting more damage through power attack (higher BAB) but the former having higher AC and similar attack roll bonus (extra +4 strength).

However, a third level Orc barbarian would have 4d12+con modx4 hp while a half-troll barbarian would have 1d12+con modx1. So this makes half-troll much less attractive an option to play. When we reduce him to LA +2 however, it makes him a rather competent barbarian on his own.


So, I'd say a half-troll with aforementioned adjustment would worth LA +2.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I made a level 2(4) Half-troll barbarian named Proffit with those racial traits

Proffit (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=36780)

[CASTLEMIKE]

There is the UA/SRD Troll lite blood line variant (Troll) which uses different buydown rules say for a quarter or less troll ancestry with a Minor or Intermediate bloodline without Fast Healing 1.

Using the Savage Species delayed progression rules for the Troll which doesn't get Regeneration 1 until level 4 when it picks up it's 3rd D8.

The +2 LA Shadow Creature template had Fast Healing 1 as an option.

[Bag_of_Holding]

I made a level 2(4) Half-troll barbarian named Proffit with those racial traits

Proffit (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=36780)

Hmm, looks slightly underpowered for a 4th-level character; it might be that the ability score is rather low or the fact that it hasn't got any armour on. Concept-wise however, looks very flavourful.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

yea I used a 28-point buy and did the no armor thing for sake of fluffiness (pff what kind of Troll uses ARMOR?)

[Bag_of_Holding]

yea I used a 28-point buy and did the no armor thing for sake of fluffiness (pff what kind of Troll uses ARMOR?)

Good on ya! :smallwink:

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I slightly preffered the appearance of Trolls as they were in BG2 whenever I think of trolls thats how they appear.

[Khanderas]

Fast healing is hard for PC's as it is better for PC's then enemies (the players fight villains once or twice, but fast healing for PC's comes to effect all the time) but I cannot really see a proper half-troll without it (I mean "real" trolls can get decapitated and just be annoyed).

I suggest a flaw for fast healing, verocious appetite. As in consuming food roughly a quarter your own mass per day (so if the troll weighs 100 kg, he needs 25 kg of food per day). Trolls eat anything and anyone, so few things would be inedible by a half-troll, however rocks and trees don't really count, food must be nutritious.
Failing to eat the enough results in losing the fast healing and cause fatigue. Possibly a chance to go feral and run out on a hunger frenzy if the half-troll is starved for long enough time. Oh, and no ring of sustainence as an easy way out. A ring might lessen this flaw to some extent, but not negate it thankyouverymuch.

Adventuring comes fairly natural for a half-troll. Lots of opportunities to kill things and eat them (the half-troll basically has to kill and eat the victims anyway just to stay alive), money (to buy food) and not to mention the strength they do possess really helps them and their allies. The adventurer life is usually a mobile one, and with the half-trolls appetites, this is good because staying on a farm does not work when you eat like a dozen grown men.

Just a suggestion / idea, ill leave the balancing to those who are better at it.

[Bag_of_Holding]

I suggest a flaw for fast healing, verocious appetite. As in consuming food roughly a quarter your own mass per day (so if the troll weighs 100 kg, he needs 25 kg of food per day). Trolls eat anything and anyone, so few things would be inedible by a half-troll, however rocks and trees don't really count, food must be nutritious.
Failing to eat the enough results in losing the fast healing and cause fatigue. Possibly a chance to go feral and run out on a hunger frenzy if the half-troll is starved for long enough time. Oh, and no ring of sustainence as an easy way out. A ring might lessen this flaw to some extent, but not negate it thankyouverymuch.


Hmm, you could use a variant of Undead Hunger from Libris Mortis pg 10; it sounds very flavourful. However, a normal troll does not have that inescapable craving/diet dependency, so it might be a bit of problem to 'explain' that trait in the half-breeds.

[Khanderas]

Hmm, you could use a variant of Undead Hunger from Libris Mortis pg 10; it sounds very flavourful. However, a normal troll does not have that inescapable craving/diet dependency, so it might be a bit of problem to 'explain' that trait in the half-breeds.
While normal trolls don't have a drawback from not eating, they are, as NPC's / monsters, always hungry and will eat you and your horse (saddle included). I felt it needed a crunch drawback though otherwise it would be handwaved away (not all groups keep track of rations or eatingtimes). :smallsmile:

[Riffington]

If you give him a need for so much food, he won't be able to hide under bridges :(