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Proven_Paradox
2008-01-02, 08:15 AM
So, a few months ago, someone came around and requested a Capoeirista class. I said I would make an attempt separate from what came up from that thread, and then life promptly began attempting to kill me, forcing me to put this on hold for a while. Over break I had some time to work on this. I'm interested in seeing how this is received, especially balance wise.

A quick note on flavor; for those who'd rather use this as a more generic chaotic alternative to a monk with a bit of ninja and bard thrown in there, I've added a suggestion beside some of the abilities for a plainer name alternative. I tried to stick to things I found going from the Capoeira Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeirista). To reiterate, those are NOT an attempt at a translation.

[edit]Also, I completely forgot to mention this. Many thanks to Nu for input on creating the Malicia.

And so, I give you...

THE CAPOEIRISTA

Alignment: Any chaotic.

Hit Die: d8

Class skills
The Capoeirista's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(4 + Int modifier) ×4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.

The Capoeirista
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Unarmed Damage|Special
1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|1d6|Malicia Initiate, Unarmed Strike, Ginga +1
2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|1d6|Sudden Strike +1d6, Malicia
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|1d6| Malicia, Warsong + 1
4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|1d8| Malicia
5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|1d8| Evasion
6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+5|1d8|Sudden Strike +2d6, Malicia
7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+5|1d8| Ginga +2
8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+6|1d10| Malicia
9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+6|1d10| Malicia
10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+7|1d10| Sudden Strike +3d6, Malicia
11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+7|1d10| Warsong + 2
12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+8|2d6| Malicia, Ginga + 3
13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+8|2d6| Improved Evasion
14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+9|2d6| Sudden Strike +4d6, Malicia
15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+9|2d6| Malicia
16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+10|2d8| Malicia
17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|2d8| Ginga + 4
18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|2d8| Sudden Strike +5d6, Malicia
19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|2d8| Warsong + 3
20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|2d10| Malicia[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Capoeiristas are proficient with all light and one-handed simple melee weapons, quarterstaves, nunchaku, darts, slings, bolas, and shuriken. He is not proficient with any armor or shields.

Malicia Initiate (Ex): The capoeirista learns to use his mind to defend himself as the first step of his training. When unarmored and unencumbered, the capoeirista adds his intelligence bonus (if any) to his AC. This bonus applies even against touch attacks or when the capoeirista is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st level, a capoeirista gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A capoeirista's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a capoeirista may even make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a capoeirista striking unarmed. A capoeirista may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a capoeirista's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A capoeirista's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A capoeirista also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Capoeirista. The unarmed damage on Table: The Capoeirista is for Medium capoeiristas. A Small capoeirista deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large capoeirista deals more, as appropriate for each size category.

Ginga [Dancing Stance] (Ex): One of the earliest lessons a capoeirista learns is simple; never stop moving. On any round where the capoeirista does not move or moves up to half his base land speed, he may enter the Ginga stance as a free action. This provides a +1 dodge bonus to AC. In addition, several other Malicia maneuvers provide extra benefits from the Ginga stance. Whenever the capoeirista moves further than a five-foot step, he exits the Ginga stance. The dodge bonus provided by Ginga improves to +2 at 7th level, and improves again every five levels thereafter (to +3 at 12th level and +4 at 17th level).


Sudden Strike (Ex): If a capoeirista can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The capoeirista's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not). This extra damage is 1d6 at 2st level, and it increases by 1d6 every four capoeirista levels thereafter. Should the capoeirista score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sudden strikes only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a capoeirista can make a sudden strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sudden strike, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A capoeirista can sudden strike only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sudden strikes. The capoeirista must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A capoeirista cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Malicia [Trickery]: All capoeirista train in new ways of tricky combat, called Malicia. At Every level divisible by two or three (levels 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20), a capoeirista may choose one of the following abilities, provided he meets the prerequisites. Prerequisites may be skill ranks, other malicia, or feats (which are denoted by an asterisk*). Every option counts as an extraordinary ability, unless otherwise stated.

Combat Malicia:
Improved Sudden Strike
Prerequisites: None
Some capoeirista focus on being able to make strikes to unsuspecting foes particularly damaging. His sudden strike damage increases by 1d6. A capoeirista may take this Malicia multiple times to a maximum of his class level / 5 times. Its effects stack.

Acrobatic Feint
Prerequisites: Tumble 2 ranks
The capoeirista's movements are complex and confusing, leaving opponents unable to determine where the next attack will come from. He may make a tumble check instead of a bluff check when making a feint attempt. In addition, he may add his intelligence modifier to all feint checks as an insight bonus. If he is in the Ginga stance while attempting an Acrobatic Feint, he gets a +2 circumstance bonus to the tumble check.

Banda [Sweep kick]
Prerequisites: Tumble 2 ranks
A Banda is a basic sweep kick intended to trip an opponent. This ability allows the capoeirista to add his intelligence modifier to the opposed strength check during trip attempts. In addition, he may make trip attempts against opponents two size categories larger than him, and can no longer be tripped in response to a failed trip attempt. If he attempts to trip a foe while in the Ginga stance, he gains a +2 circumstance bonus to the strength check.

Galopante [Press the Advantage]
Prerequisites: Tumble 8 ranks, Acrobatic Feint, Improved Feint*
The capoeirista quickly learns to make his strikes particularly devastating after an acrobatic display. Any attacks against a foe that the capoeirista has just successfully feinted deal an additional 1d6 damage. If the capoeirista is in the Ginga stance, they instead deal an additional 2d6 damage.

Folha Seca [Backflip]
Prerequisites: Tumble 8 ranks, Acrobatic Feint
This graceful technique is essentially a sudden, unexpected back-flip. Any time the capoeirista provokes an attack of opportunity due to movement, he may choose to perform a Folha Seca as an immediate action during his turn. During a Folha Seca, he moves five feet away from the opponent making the attack of opportunity in any direction and makes a feint attempt. If he succeeds in the feint attempt, in addition to being flat-footed, the opponent cannot make any attacks of opportunity until the capoeirista's next turn. After performing a Folha Seca, the capoeirista may immediately enter the Ginga stance, regardless of how far he has moved, but he cannot move any further during that round. A Folha Seca may be attempted during any kind of land-based movement, including during or at the end of a charge. If a Folha Seca is performed during a charge, there is no attack at the end of it, and the capoeirista does not take the normal AC penalty. This maneuver can be used, for example, while being bull-rushed through threatened squares.

Tesoura-de-Frente [Follow-up]
Prerequisites: Tumble 13 ranks, Acrobatic Feint, Banda, Improved Trip*
A skilled capoeirista can quickly sweep an opponent off his feet after he gets them off balance. After a successful feint attempt, he may immediately make a trip attempt as a free action. He gets a +2 circumstance bonus to the opposed strength check for this trip attempt.

Dediera [Eye gouge]
Prerequisites: Tumble 13 ranks, Acrobatic Feint, Improved Feint*, Galopante
A blinded foe is a crippled foe. When making a sudden strike, the Capoeirista may target his foe's eyes. The victim must make a fortitude save DC 10 + 1/4 the Capoeirista's class level + the Capoeirista's intelligence modifier or be blinded for three rounds and take an additional 2d6 damage from the Capoeirista's strike. If the Dediera attack is a critical hit, the save DC increases by 5 and the additional damage increases to 4d6. If the Capoeirista is in the ginga stance while attempting this attack, the save DC increases by 2.

Vôo-do-Morcego [Drop kick]
Prerequisites: Tumble 18 ranks, Jump 8 ranks, Banda, Tesoura-de-Frente, Folha Seca, Skillful Charge, Improved Trip*
This devastating drop kick leaves the skilled capoeirista on the ground, but his foe gasping for breath and likely with broken bones. As a standard action, he may attempt a Vôo-do-Morcego strike. Make a melee attack against the target. If this is successful, the capoeirista deals his normal unarmed strike damage to the foe (including extra damage from Sudden Strike or Galopante if it applies) + 4d6 and makes a trip attempt against the victim. If the trip is successful, he does not gain an extra attack from Improved Trip, but the victim must make a fortitude save DC 10 + 1/4 the Capoeirista's class level + the capoeirista's intelligence modifier or become sickened for five rounds. A sickened foe instead becomes nauseated. At the end of a Vôo-do-Morcego, the capoeirista is prone, regardless of whether or not he successfully hit or tripped his foe.

A Vôo-do-Morcego may be attempted at the end of a charge, in which case the Capoeirista receives a +4 circumstance bonus to the opposed strength check for the trip attempt, the fortitude save DC is increased by 4, and the damage bonus is increased by 2d6.

If the initial attack roll is a critical hit, the damage bonus increases by 4d6, the Capoeirista receives a +6 circumstance bonus to the opposed strength check for the trip attempt, and the fortitude save DC is increased by 6. The bonuses from a critical hit and a charge stack.
A Vôo-do-Morcego may not also be a Dediera.

Movement Malicia:
Fast Movement
Prerequisites: None
A capoeirista must be quick on his feet. His base land speed increases by 10 feet. A capoeirista may take this Malicia multiple times to a maximum of (class level/5) + 1 times. Its effects stack.

Macaco [Kip-up]
Prerequisites: Jump 2 ranks
A capoeirista who finds himself on the ground is skilled at getting back up quickly. Once per round, as a free action, he may stand from a prone position without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Agile Charge
Prerequisites: Jump 2 ranks
A capoeirista is agile, even when running flat-out. He no longer takes an AC penalty when making a charge attack.

Skillful Charge
Prerequisites: Jump 8 ranks, Agile Charge
A skilled capoeirista is able to charge far more skillfully than most other fighters. He may change direction once during a charge or while running.

Ponte [Ground fighting]
Prerequisites: Jump 8 ranks, Macaco
Being forced to the ground bothers a skilled capoeirista very little. He may make attacks while prone at no penalty, and opponents gain no bonuses on melee attacks while he is prone. After returning to his feet, he may enter the Ginga stance as long has he has made no other movements this round.

Light Step
Prerequisites: Jump 13 ranks, Agile Charge
A skilled capoeirista has no problems making his way through any kind of terrain. He ignores all difficult terrain and caltrops during any type of moment. Magically altered terrain, such as due to an Entangle or Grease spell, still forces the capoeirista to make a save to resist their effects, but he gains a competence bonus equal to his intelligence modifier to the save. If he succeeds he may move normally, without any speed penalties.

Aú Batido [Kip-up Kick]
Prerequisites: Jump 13 ranks, Macaco, Ponte
Being knocked to the ground and surrounded by foes isn't necessarily the end for a skilled capoeirista. As a full round action, when getting up from a prone position, he may perform an Aú Batido. He makes a unarmed strike against all nearby opponents, and in the process returns to his feet. This counts as his Macaco for the round. Afterwards, he may enter the Ginga stance.

Freedom
Prerequisites: Jump 18 ranks, Macaco, Agile Charge, Skillful Charge, Ponte, Light Step, Folha Seca
A master capoeirista cannot be held back by any force. He is treated as if under a constant Freedom of Movement effect, and may enter the Ginga stance whenever he wishes regardless of how far he has moved.

Song Malicia:
(Note: In addition to their listed rerequisites, all Song Malicia require Warsong before they can be chosen. All Song Malicia are supernatural abilities. All Song Malicia are sonic effects, and those that affect foes are considering mind-affecting abilities.)

Extra Warsongs
Prerequisites: None
A song-master capoeirista can use his Warsong more often than others. He gains three additional daily uses of Warsong. This Malicia may be taken multiple times, up to a maximum of (class level/5) + 1 times. Its effects stack.

Strong Voice
Prerequisites: None
A song-master capoeirista sings louder, conveying the benefits of his songs to allies (or the penalties to his foes) further away. The radius of his songs are extended by 10 feet. This Malicia may be taken multiple times, up to a maximum of class level/5 times. Its effects stack.

Corrido [Duet]
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 2 ranks
A song-master capoeirista can use song to expose the defenses of a foe with the help of one other ally. If he and another ally are flanking a foe, he may perform a Corrido as a free action during either his or that ally's turn. The foe must make a will save DC 10 + the capoeirista's intelligence modifier + 1/4 the capoeirista's class level, or become flat-footed. If the capoeirista is in the Ginga stance, this DC increases by 2. This consumes one daily use of Warsong, and interrupts any Warsong the capoeirista is currently maintaining. The target remains flat-footed until his next turn.

Louvação [Focusing Melody]
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 2 ranks
A song-master capoeirista can use song to focus his strength of both body and mind. He may begin singing a Louvação as a standard action. While singing a Louvação, he gains a moral bonus on his attack and damage rolls equal to his intelligence modifier. Maintaining a Louvação uses the same rules as maintaining a Warsong, and beginning one consumes one daily use of Warsong.

Greater Warsong
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 8 ranks, Corrido or Louvação
A song-master capoeirista's warsong has a greater effect than others. The bonus from Warsong now applies to saves and checks.

Song of Warning
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 8 ranks, Corrido
A song-master capoeirista can instill fear into his foes through his song. As a swift action, he may begin a Song of Warning. Every round, any foes within range of his Warsong must make a will save DC 12 + the capoeirista's intelligence modifier + 1/4 the capoeirista's class level, or become shaken for one round. Maintaining a Song of Warning uses the same rules as maintaining a Warsong, and beginning one consumes two daily uses of Warsong. The save DC for the Song of Warning increases by 2 if it is performed while in the ginga stance. This is a fear effect.

Ladainha [Litany]
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 13 ranks, Louvação, Lingering Song*
Before entering battle, a song-master capoeirista sings a short but beautiful litany. Afterwards, he joins the fray with sudden and frightening ferocity. During the first non-surprise round of combat, the capoeirista may choose to sing a Ladainha. This is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. After singing the Ladainha, the capoeirista gains a moral bonus on all attack rolls, saves, and checks equal to his intelligence modifier. In addition, he deals an extra 1d6 damage on all attacks. These benefits begin on the capoeirista's next turn and lasts until the end of the battle.

Dirge
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 13 ranks, Corrido, Song of Warning, Lingering Song*
Before entering a battle, a song-master capoeirista sings a short but dark dirge to his foes. This song drains his foes' will to fight. During the first non-surprise round of combat, the capoeirista may choose to sing a Dirge. This is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. All foes who fail a will save DC 15 + the capoeirista's intelligence modifier + 1/4 the capoeirista's class level take a –4 penalty to all opposed rolls against the capoeirista, as well as penalty equal to the capoeirista's intelligence modifer to all attack rolls, saves, and damage rolls against the capoeirista. This effect lasts until the end of the battle. This is a fear effect.

Song within a Song
Prerequisites: Perform (sing) 18 ranks, Ladainha or Dirge, Lingering Song*
A superior song-master capoeirista may sing songs so intricate that they seem to be two songs in one. He may have his Warsong and either a Louvação or a Song of Warning active at the same time, and singing a Corrido no longer interrupts his Warsong. When damaged, he no longer needs to make a concentration check to maintain any of his songs. If using two songs at once, he must still expend daily Warsong uses for both of them.


Warsong (Su): Beginning at third level, once per day per class level, as a standard action, a capoeirista may begin a Warsong. All allies who can hear him sing (including the capoeirista) within a 30 ft. radius also gain a +1 moral bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls. The capoeirista may maintain a Warsong while fighting at no penalty, but any time the capoeirista sustains damage while singing, he must make a concentration check DC 10 + damage dealt or stop singing. Warsongs cannot be used outside of battle. Several Song Malicia also make use of Warsong uses. For any prerequisites (such as feats or prestige classes), Warsong counts as Bardic Music. Unlike Bardic Music, Warsongs must use Perform (sing). The moral bonus provided by Warsong increases every eight level after 3rd (to +2 at 11th and +3 at 19th).

Evasion (Ex): At 5th level or higher if a capoeirista makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a capoeirista is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless capoeirista does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 13th level, a capoeirista's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless capoeirista does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Arbitrarity
2008-01-02, 11:52 AM
Looks nice. I like how it manages to carve a role our for itself by duplicating many helpful class features, while not entirely overshadowing the original class.
Very nice use of scaling class features.

The standard formula for save DC's is 10+1/2 class level+stat mod. Is the lower DC for balance purposes?

I'm not entirely sure how this plays out in a game, but it looks good at the moment, and I don't see any particular balance problems. Warsongs look nice, and reduce MAD to some extent. I'm guessing INT>DEX>STR>CON, or somesuch? Still slightly MAD, but it has focus on INT, making the skill issue much less.

One typo: You put DC twice in a row after will save in dirge song. Also, how long does Corrido last?
Fohla Seca is interesting in being an immediate action, rather than a swift. Is it intended that you be able to do the "5 ft step" while being bull rushed through threatened squares, for example? If so, could you provide some clarification on the effect of such interruptions?

XiaoTie
2008-01-02, 12:28 PM
Loved the class, specially the way you used the real names of some 'moves' on the Malicia part, it's cool to see those names on my native language :elan:

I'm even considering using a NPC character on my PbP game using that class :smallbiggrin:

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-02, 10:24 PM
The standard formula for save DC's is 10+1/2 class level+stat mod. Is the lower DC for balance purposes?

Well, you'll notice that many of the abilities that force saves have higher DCs if it's done from Ginga, or if the attack roll that leads to them is a critical hit. In my mind, lowering the bonus from class levels compensated for that. Do you think that went overboard?

There were a couple of instances where I typed 1/5 when I meant 1/4; correcting that now. Also, Song of Warning now gets a +2 to the DC when it's performed in Ginga, as I meant for it to be in the first place.


I'm not entirely sure how this plays out in a game, but it looks good at the moment, and I don't see any particular balance problems. Warsongs look nice, and reduce MAD to some extent. I'm guessing INT>DEX>STR>CON, or somesuch? Still slightly MAD, but it has focus on INT, making the skill issue much less.

I'd say INT>DEX>CON. There are a lot of ways for him to get INT to damage/attack rolls, so strength isn't nearly as important in my mind.


One typo: You put DC twice in a row after will save in dirge song. Also, how long does Corrido last?

Typo fixed; nice catch. As for Corrido, as with normal flat-footed rules, he stays that way until his next turn. I've added some text to clarify that.


Fohla Seca is interesting in being an immediate action, rather than a swift. Is it intended that you be able to do the "5 ft step" while being bull rushed through threatened squares, for example? If so, could you provide some clarification on the effect of such interruptions?

As for the first question, yes. As I understand things, in order to be able to do things as a response to something like an attack, it needs to be an immediate action. I've added a bit of clarification to it, regardless.


Loved the class, specially the way you used the real names of some 'moves' on the Malicia part, it's cool to see those names on my native language

If you've got suggestions for more in-flavor names for the abilities for which I couldn't quite come up with something, I'd love to hear 'em.

Nu
2008-01-03, 01:58 AM
I like. You've already heard a lot of my input, but one additional thing looking this over: since the Capoeirista will probably be unarmed most of the time, perhaps one of the early combat malica should give the benefit of "if the Capoeirista's trip attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the Capoeirista?" Like the trip ability of a wolf or other such monster that trips with natural weapons.

At any rate, even if you don't do this, it seems this should be added onto abilities like Vôo-do-Morcego or Tesoura-de-Frente(specifically for those trip attempts).

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-03, 02:06 AM
As I mentioned in IM, for some reason I thought that was in the realm of the Improved Trip feat. Since it's not, it's probably a good idea to add it, yeah. Banda now has an additional perk. Good catch.

And once again, thanks for your input in making this one, Nu.

loopy
2008-01-03, 07:15 AM
I love this class. Seems well balanced. Love the flavor as well.

Could I trouble you for some pronunciation guides for the linguistically challenged (such as myself)? :smallsmile:

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-03, 08:51 AM
Honestly? I'm not terribly sure how to pronounce some of these. I have a vague idea, but I could be totally wrong. I'll wait for someone who speaks the language (or someone who spends more than three seconds looking at the pronunciation guide) (what!? I was busy writing up a class!) to step in on this one.

XiaoTie
2008-01-03, 09:47 AM
Honestly? I'm not terribly sure how to pronounce some of these. I have a vague idea, but I could be totally wrong. I'll wait for someone who speaks the language (or someone who spends more than three seconds looking at the pronunciation guide) (what!? I was busy writing up a class!) to step in on this one.

I would if I knew how to put it in words how to pronounce without using those weird pronunciation symbols.

Let’s see if I can work at least Malicia and Ginga:

Ma (as in Maple, only that just a tad more "open", or longer) - li (as in Lee) - cia (see+a only that the see would be pronounced a bit faster)

Gin (as in Jingle) - ga (as in Gattaca, that movie)

If you guys understood I could do the rest, but I'm sure some other portuguese speaker faster and smarter than me will do that before me, I think I've seen at least another one posting here :smalltongue:

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-12, 09:18 PM
Update based on feedback from another board:

-It is now specifically stated that the capoeirista does not have any armor/shield proficiencies.
-I've actually added the sudden strike description. We all know what it is, but that needed to be there anyway. *Facepalm*
-After a folha seca, the capoeirista cannot move any further for the round. I meant for this to be the intent from the beginning, and the wording makes this clearer now. [edit] Also, a floha seca can only be performed during the capoeirista's turn.
-Dediera blindness now lasts for three rounds.
-Louvação now no longer provides bonus damage based on sudden strike dice.

Specific questions other feedback has generated:

-Are the bonuses provided by acrobatic feint too much? I personally don't think so, since feinting is typically a poor choice in combat, but I would like to hear what you think on this.
-Does macaco need to come later?
-Is banda too strong? I'm honestly torn on this one.

Gælen_Durrandl
2008-01-12, 11:56 PM
Specific questions other feedback has generated:

-Are the bonuses provided by acrobatic feint too much? I personally don't think so, since feinting is typically a poor choice in combat, but I would like to hear what you think on this.
-Does macaco need to come later?
-Is banda too strong? I'm honestly torn on this one.

On Acrobatic Feint, I'm not terribly sure about adding Int to the checks, but the use of Tumble seems fair in light of the nature of the class.

For Banda, I have a few thoughts:
- I'd strongly consider allowing the Capoeirista to make the opposed check using Str or Dex--the higher of the two.
- Maybe they should only add their Int to opposed checks to trip larger foes. Maybe.
- Considering the class flavor, think about allowing a Tumble check somewhere in the action, maybe opposed by the target's (touch) AC instead of the touch attack.

Lastly Macaco:
With the exception of entering Ginga afterward, Macaco and Ponte can be achieved by a Capoeirista of 3rd level with the feat Prone Attack (CW 103)--for which they're qualified at 2nd. These two should be combined, rewritten to so you can attack and kip up if you hit, and made available for the Malicia at 2nd.
On a related matter, Au Batido can be nearly replicated--no Ginga afterwards--by a human Capoeirista with the Whirlwind attack feat and Prone Attack or our new Macaco/Ponte at 9th level (although, without the humans' extra feat, it's really 12th level) With its rather limited applicability, that it specifies unarmed strike, and the fact that it's a full-round action that forces the Capoeirista to their feet--meaning it'll be the round after next before they can do it again--it doesn't seem unreasonable to lower the Jump requirement to 8 ranks. Especially considering a fighter can take Whirlwind attack as early as 4th level and replicate Au Batido with any weapon at 6th.

souldoubt
2008-01-13, 05:00 PM
This looks like a very interesting class. I guess the one thing I'm really confused by, is why you decided to use Int as the key score for so many abilities. :smallconfused:

Maybe this was discussed in some other thread, or part of the initial request, but I don't really see how it makes sense in conjunction with the class. Intelligence represents book-smarts; it is a person's general level of knowledge and their ability to analyze information. I could see a character gaining Int to attack if their class studied anatomy, or from some other applied academic discipline, but I think most martial arts would be more Wisdom based -- i.e. based on perception rather than analytical thinking, and on intuitive understanding rather than academic knowledge.

Just my thoughts.

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-13, 06:33 PM
Souldoubt, that was part of the original request, yeah. According to the guy who requested this--a capoeirista himself--a capoeirista fight is in large part about tricking your opponent and finding weak spots in their guard. Of the three mental stats, intelligence seems to fit best to me, and he agreed. I always viewed wisdom in combat, such as with a monk, as a sort of mystical awareness of what happens in a fight, and an intuitive understanding of where a blow is going to land. What was originally described to me isn't about intuition, it's about trickery and deceit (hence, malice--malicia), thinking one's moves through and using them to confuse an opponent. I'd put charisma before wisdom there, and intelligence before charisma.

Goober4473
2008-01-13, 06:38 PM
If they're trained to never stop moving, why do they get a dodge bonus only if they don't move?

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-13, 07:01 PM
You don't have to move to not be still. Basically, during ginga, they're dancing in place. The wiki I linked links to a list of capoeira moves, and it shows some good animations of a ginga stance.

You'll also notice that they can still move half their base land speed and ginga. Any increase in their base land speed will also increase how far they can move and still ginga.

Nu
2008-01-13, 07:10 PM
On you Banda concerns, I think if you believe it is too powerful you could have them use their INT modifier in place of their STR modifier for trip attempts rather than straight-up adding their INT modifier to the check.

As for Gælen_Durrandl's comments on Macaco and Au Batido, I have to disagree because of the harsh prerequisites for those feats. I could see making Au Batido a lower-ranked skill as far as Jump prerequisites, but really, who wants to take Lightning Reflexes just for Prone Attack? I don't see letting you use your other feats on more useful abilities to be a bad thing. Dropping prone is a free action; so the character could use Au Batido in consecutive rounds if I am reading the rules right.

Edit: I could see arguments being made for using CHA in place of INT for his abilities, as things like Feints, Bluffs, and deception are usually based on Charisma rather than Intelligence. Though you could argue that "outsmarting" someone is INT-based, so I could see it going either way.

souldoubt
2008-01-13, 07:53 PM
What was originally described to me isn't about intuition, it's about trickery and deceit (hence, malice--malicia), thinking one's moves through and using them to confuse an opponent. I'd put charisma before wisdom there, and intelligence before charisma.

As Nu points out, trickery and deceit are Charisma-based interactions (Bluff, Disguise, etc). The only deceitful skill I can think of off the top of my head that uses Int is Forgery, a purely academic sort of pursuit. It's funny that you should mention Charisma as a possiblity, because I had already been thinking that Charisma would make more sense than Intelligence.

Everything you've said about capoera is in keeping with my (admittedly extremely limited) knowledge of it as a fighting style, so I'm not about to question that. I'm just not sure that being a bookworm with a high IQ would make somebody better at capoera. :smalltongue:

Edit: Too bad there's no "Cunning" ability score. However, since Charisma represents a person's ability to convince his foes he's doing one thing when he's actually doing another (i.e. tricking them), I'd say Cha makes the best case for the primary ability score of this class.

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-13, 08:16 PM
I look at it as Nu does--he put it better than I did. You're outsmarting them with acrobatic maneuvers. To me, this makes intelligence the most suitable ability.

bossadelic
2008-05-19, 08:11 PM
just a point on the unarmed strike thing... capoeiristas refrain from using their fists, because according to west african religion, the hands are used for creation, and the feet for destruction.

Fri
2008-05-20, 02:15 AM
just a point on the unarmed strike thing... capoeiristas refrain from using their fists, because according to west african religion, the hands are used for creation, and the feet for destruction.

Isn't that because capoeira was made in the time of slavery in brazil, for slaves with handcuffed hands?

Fawsto
2008-05-20, 09:31 AM
Uhuu, nice class. I've heard about it before, I just finally took a look at it.

Now, 2 things, Any Chaotic? You could use any alingment there. Anyone can practice Capoeira. It also has a very spiritual side, if you want to consider it.

Second, tou could add a class feature that allows the Capoeirista to use Bluff, Sense Motive and Intimidate with his Int modifier. Only while in a fight, of course.

Otherwise, nice work. I am Brazilian, if you desire any info about Capoeira I can help to provide you with some stuff.

See ya.

magic_unlocked
2008-05-24, 09:45 AM
Also, if you check out the movie, Only the Strong, it might, just might, give some insights into how it works and stuff...

That was my 2 CP...

KIDS
2008-05-24, 10:06 AM
As someone who doesn't practice capoeira (at least in more than amateurish ways) but is very fond of the art, I think this is a rather well done class. It's very synergistic!

Two points:

a) way to bypass DR? Would you consider giving the class an ability to use unarmed attacks as magical or adamantine, as monk? Perhaps if you feel that the gist of capoeira isn't to break stuff but is more exotic, consider cold iron and silver emulation.
b) i'd limit the INT to AC bonus by "no more than your total class level" to discourage dipping as it is a very desireable ability for a lot of classes
c) if you're using ToB, to make it fit better I'd give the class a limited selection of maneuvers, something like free Martial Study at levels 9, 13 and 17, using Setting Sun, Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind.
d) alignment: any chaotic? I don't see why; I gotta admit that I don't like the law-chaos axis in the first place, but looking over it strictly, capoeira requires as much discipline as any other. I'd give it alignment: any (but then again, so I would to the monk as well)

Great work, keep it up!

Jibar
2008-05-24, 10:34 AM
I look at it as Nu does--he put it better than I did. You're outsmarting them with acrobatic maneuvers. To me, this makes intelligence the most suitable ability.

I've been told by my friend who does practice capoeira that fights are about knowing every move your foe knows and then knowing which moves they don't know or won't expect.
So, yeah, intelligence very much so. There's a layer of strategy there that wisdom doesn't convey.

SilentNight
2008-05-24, 11:15 AM
Isn't that because capoeira was made in the time of slavery in brazil, for slaves with handcuffed hands?

I think you're right. Very nice class with wonderful flavor.

Proven_Paradox
2008-05-24, 06:23 PM
Huh, a resurgence in input. Seems like odd timing, but I'm not complaining.


just a point on the unarmed strike thing... capoeiristas refrain from using their fists, because according to west african religion, the hands are used for creation, and the feet for destruction.

If a player with this class wants to do that, they're quite free to do so--the unarmed strike description states that one can use one's entire body. Don't want to use fists? Just describe yourself as kicking. Done.


Any Chaotic? You could use any alingment there. Anyone can practice Capoeira. It also has a very spiritual side, if you want to consider it.

Honestly, I thought that was strange myself. However, as I stated at the top of my post, this started as a request from someone else, and one of the things that person said was that the class needs to be chaotic. As I studied the style preparing to write this class up, it seemed unnecessary, but I kept it all the same. I've not heard from them since that original thread (which ended up with a PrC that I found rather bland myself) ended, so I think if I do a 2.0, it'll be either non-lawful or, more likely, any.


a) way to bypass DR? Would you consider giving the class an ability to use unarmed attacks as magical or adamantine, as monk? Perhaps if you feel that the gist of capoeira isn't to break stuff but is more exotic, consider cold iron and silver emulation.

I'd hoped the various ways the class can add precision damage would help with that, the same way it does with the rogue. Of course, they'd have problems against undead, constructs, elementals, and so on, but rogues have that problem too. I'll think about it if I do 2.0.


b) i'd limit the INT to AC bonus by "no more than your total class level" to discourage dipping as it is a very desireable ability for a lot of classes

I honestly don't have a lot of problems with dipping, but I'll think about that.


c) if you're using ToB, to make it fit better I'd give the class a limited selection of maneuvers, something like free Martial Study at levels 9, 13 and 17, using Setting Sun, Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind.

That's a possibility. I might make a Malicia line for martial adepts.


The renewed interest pleases me greatly. I haven't gotten any playtesting on this class done yet (other than mock fights in my head) but if I had a bit more hard data on how the class actually handles, I might consider a 2.0 version. I'll look into that, but I have other things going on that will divert my attention somewhat.

SilentNight
2008-05-24, 06:50 PM
I might be playing one in an upcoming PbP game so I'll get back to you if it works out.

Proven_Paradox
2008-05-24, 08:31 PM
That would be wonderful, Silent.

SilentNight
2008-05-25, 08:55 AM
Sorry, the DM just nixed it. Don't blame me, blame wxdruid.

Mr Bojangles
2008-05-28, 05:04 PM
This has definitely caught my eye, and I plan on using it in my upcoming campaign. I agree with the specific Chaotic only requirements, but that's going to be changed easily enough. Great class and good work.