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Neek
2008-01-02, 09:47 PM
Alright. This is the first time I've asked for help in building a character. I've decided, however, that with the direction I'm going, I might need some help.

A member of my tabletop D&D group is GMing his own campaign. He's extremely lax on what books I can use, and as long as I can cite the texts he needs, he'll more or less allow it. So I decided it would be fun to play a Summoner, or specifically, a Conjurer.

Backstory
Her name is Wren Lisbeth Cammott (age 22), daughter of the carpenter, Cameron Miles Aubernson and Elizbeth Mary Long. She is the eldest of four, having three younger brothers: Corbin Auberon (age 18), Aderin Cornell (17), and Gavin Chase (10), who were born to a different mother (Elizabeth died nearly three years after Wren was born from a lump in her lungs. Cameron married Elizabeth's cousin, Paige Abigail, the daughter of Edwin Cornelius Long a year later.

[more to flesh out]
I made my starting roles using !allscores in the #giantitp chatroom, generating 15, 14, 10, 9, and 6.

I've assigned the scores as follows: 6, 10, 9, 15, 13, 14. I have placed the least focus on my physical abilities for flavor. I imagine a girl who's weak and frail, and entered the school of Conjuration to summon her own army to defend herself. While this fits the flavor of the character, I'm not sure if I want to swap Charisma with either Wisdom of Constitution. I know the game will rely on a good mixture of combat and roleplaying, and I know I need the stats to ensure plausible roleplayability. At fourth level, I intend on increasing my Intelligence to 16; at eight, my Con to 10.

If I swap Charisma with Constitution, I'll gain hitpoints, a better Fortitude saving throw, and a better Concentration skill modifier, I will lose the flavor I'm going for (she's weak, but not frail). If I swap Charisma with Wisdom, I don't gain much except an extra point on my Profession (Cook) (which is only there for flavor, but I always have a flavor skill).

I have picked up Conjurer as my first class, using the Focused Specialist Wizard from Complete Mage. This means that I lose a spell level slot from each spell level and am required to lose one other school, but I gain two extra spells from my specialized school per day. I have sacrificed Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy.

I picked up, in terms of feats, I have picked up Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning; the former is a requirement to enter the Master Specialist PrC (also from CoMa), the latter for obvious reasons.

At 3rd level, I intend on picking up Extend Spell, and on 5th, Metamagic Spell Focus (from the CoMa; it reduces the spell slot modifier by one for three spells that are prepared per day). I intend on also taking Arcane Thesis as my 5th level Wizard bonus feat. (PHBII; I select a spell, which is then cast +2 caster level, and any metamagic feats applied to are reduced by one).

A few questions: My ability spread, is it sound? Good? Or... otherwise? Is Master Specialist a good build to aim for as a Conjurer? What else should I look into? My intent is to be a Summoner, relying on summoned creatures to handle the battles and other things. Are there specific spells I should look into, besides the entire Summoning chain?

Douglas
2008-01-02, 10:01 PM
Have you considered switching wisdom and constitution?

Arcane Thesis cannot be taken until 6th level due to the skill ranks requirement, and it is also not on the wizard bonus feat list. You may not want to take wizard to 5th level anyway, as Master Specialist can be entered with only 3 wizard levels. This is not an early entry trick, the PrC is deliberately designed that way.

You may want to get the Rapid Spell feat from Complete Divine. It has a metamagic cost of +1 but it can make your Summon Monster spells take just a standard action rather than a full round that both leaves you vulnerable to non-readied action disruption and delays the monster's appearance to your next turn.

If you don't mind being a bit cheesy, take the Immediate Magic alternate class feature from PHBII instead of a familiar - the conjuration version's 10' immediate action teleport can negate most attacks you will face up to your int bonus times per day.

In addition to Augment Summoning, consider the Augment Elemental feat from Magic of Eberron. It only works with elementals, but +2 to attack and damage and 2 temp hp per hit die for every elemental you summon, stacking with the bonuses from Augment Summoning, can add up very nicely if you summon elementals a lot.

Nebo_
2008-01-02, 10:02 PM
Wizards need Con; don't dump it. Abrupt Jaunt from PHBII is extremely good - well worth giving up a familiar for. You should also switch your wisdom and Dex.
Master Specialist is pretty good for Conjurers, especially the last Esoterica which gives free quicken three time per day with conjuration spells. The prerequisites are also the same as those for Augment summoning, so there's no real reason not to take it.

Douglas
2008-01-02, 10:15 PM
Extend Spell is not particularly useful for summoners. By the time you can make significant use of it, your summons will last until the end of combat without it anyway.

Imbued Summoning (PHBII) is another feat to consider, but not until a bit higher level.

marjan
2008-01-02, 10:22 PM
Augment Elemental from MoE is also nice for summoners as it gives +2 to hit and dmg and +2 HP/HD. With Summon Elemental reserve feat from CM it can get you pretty nice Summons almost for free concerning spell slots.

Conjurer
2008-01-02, 10:42 PM
I'm also playing a Conjurer/Master Specialist right now. Although I haven't gone much into the PrC yet, I'm finding the that it gives specialists a lot of flavor, which they lacked in my opinion... plus it's quite fun.

About your stats... I'd avoid a negative in Constitution whenever possible. Consider this instead

Str 6, Dex 9, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 14. (Since you want your char to be frail... but I'd personally put the 13 in Con)

I passed on the Focussed Specialist, as giving up another school didn't appeal to me. I find that I can supplement my own casting with scrolls. (I gave up Evocation and Necromancy... you also gave up Enchantment? Ouch.)

Also consider some of the Grease and Gas spells from Conjuration to provide aid and backup to other party members and to your own summons and take advantage of your Conjuration Focus Feat.

Grease (and Incendiary slime, CoMa) makes it tough for enemies to come near and it allows your meat shields to get some easy hits (Though the warriors from my party are using weapons with reach, so YMMV).

Web them into place and then pepper them with crossbow and bow fire.

Baleful Transposition is also a lot of fun. Can't remember the source for that spell though.

Sleet Storm (no save or SR) or other movement hampering spells plus some form of constant damage like Caustic Smoke.

Also, be sure to use your summons to create flanking positions (your Rogue will love you, mine does).

Finally, consider investing some points into Ride so you can take advantage of Mount and Phantom Steed.

Hope that helps.

Leon
2008-01-02, 10:55 PM
Boost the CON and see if you can take a Flaw such as Frail (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail) to flesh out the flavor

Neek
2008-01-02, 11:27 PM
Leon: Not a bad idea. I'll see if my DM approves it first... but what feat should I pick? Damnit. Decisions, decisions...

Conjurer: The ability spread that you give is nice. If the Flaw doesn't fly, I'll use this instead. I should look into Save or ... spells. And for the Ride skill? I'm on it.

Marjan: I lack Magic of Eberron. I never found Reserve feats to be desirable, but Summon Elemental doesn't seem bad, even if it's one small elemental. I can live with that.

Nebo_: Con isn't a dump stat (that's Strength in this case), but rather a place to play the flavor stats (I've found that with a high spread of stats, such as everything above average, I have a problem making characters I would like play).

Swapping Dex and Wisdom would give me a good bonus to my AC and my ranged touch attacks--I have no intent of going into front-line combat, and would avoid it as much as possible. Swapping Con with Dex, as Conjurer recommended, however, seems to play in with the flavor (or swap Wis with Con, and take the Frail flaw. Which is what I prefer now, but that's pending on the DM.) The spells I intend on casting won't have touch attacks, but rather require saves or are just summons.

Douglas: I meant sixth level, excuse the typo. I'm aware that on my fourth level, I intend on picking up Master Specialist, It's good and early. I'm wary of giving up my familiar; not for any bonus... I don't know. I like familiars. But Abrupt Jaunt is quite nice! (I know I can get one back with the Acquire Familiar feat, but is it worth blowing a feat on?) Rapid spell is nice and I think I'll look into that one; having no prereqs, and +1 + Metamagic School Focus's -1 is a lot more lucrative than Extend spell.

RTGoodman
2008-01-03, 12:03 AM
If you're doing a lot of the summoning aspect of Conjuration, and if your DM will allow it, you should probably take a look at the three variants from Unearthed Arcana, found here (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedSpecialist.html#conjurer).

The first lets you lose your familiar to cut all your summons down to standard actions, which is worth it unless there's another variant feature you want that requires you to give up your familiar.

The second seems pretty decent, but you've got to give up your bonus feats, which may or may not be a good idea (though it does give you Augment Summoning for free). The third seems like it would just complicate things, and removes part of the reason you specialize (to get more spells per day).

Also, I don't know what the alignment and outlook of the character is, but something that could be flavorful (if not optimized) is that your character becomes so obsessed with trying to gain more powerful summoned creatures that she makes a deal with some horror from the Far Planes and becomes an Alienist (from Complete Arcane). I was ready to play one for an evil campaign once and had him all planned out (using the rapid summoning variant above), but the game never got off the ground. :smallfrown:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-03, 12:12 AM
If you want to go Ultimate Magus which is nice for fueling meta magic with spells :

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68338

Malconvoker can be pretty strong if your PC isn't good despite losing a casting level. There is a nice handbook at the Wizard's boards.

You can enter Thaumaturgist eventually with Arcane Discipline either Summoning or Spells (You can cast Lesser Planar Ally with Anyspell Greater to meet the prerequisite).

You should take advantage of the UA/SRD variants for "Rapid Summoning" and "Enhanced Summoning".

Consider taking Precocious Apprentice to get 4 levels of Master Specialist for Minor Esoterica Conjuration if going Ultimate Magus for no dead levels.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants

Generally it is better to get your summoned creatures more hit points than an extension in the amount of rounds they are summoned.

Know your summoned monsters and have a basic familiarity with the general campaign monsters so you can summon the right creatures.

Have a Summoning cheat sheet 3 by cards or other record to facilitate encounters.

Chronicled
2008-01-03, 12:23 AM
The Metamagic feat Sculpt Spell (+1 adjustment to reshape an area of effect spell into 1 of 4 options) works superbly with spells like Grease, Glitterdust, and the various gasses/fogs, keeping your allies from being caught in the spell's area and allowing for a lot of flexibility. I believe it's from Complete Arcane.

Talic
2008-01-03, 12:39 AM
Bear in mind that the two bonus spells from Focused Specialist stack with the bonus spell from specializing (Source: Complete Mage, Focused Specialist description). Thus, you actually get 3 bonus spells per spell level per day, as long as they're conjuration. Enchantment does hurt, but it's not a bad third choice, to be honest.

Something to think about...

Splashing 1 level of sorceror. Yeah, it's a cardinal sin usually to multiclass when you're a primary caster, but think of what you get out of it: A couple 1st level spells from your barred schools, and the ability to use spell completion and trigger items from your barred schools. This includes wands and scrolls, and will offset your enchantment weakness.

Chronicled
2008-01-03, 03:33 AM
Splashing 1 level of sorceror. Yeah, it's a cardinal sin usually to multiclass when you're a primary caster, but think of what you get out of it: A couple 1st level spells from your barred schools, and the ability to use spell completion and trigger items from your barred schools. This includes wands and scrolls, and will offset your enchantment weakness.

Far better to get a Runestaff (I think that's the name) or several from the Magic Item Compendium.

I recommend lots of Pearls of Power, to boot, so that you don't need to prep so many Summon spells.

JackMage666
2008-01-03, 03:35 AM
I'm not 100% sure, but your roll looks like it's qualified as a reroll, since the total modifier is only +2. I could be wrong, though.

Chronicled
2008-01-03, 03:40 AM
I'm not 100% sure, but your roll looks like it's qualified as a reroll, since the total modifier is only +2. I could be wrong, though.

It's only if the total modifier before racial adjustments is 0 or less, or if the highest score is 13. It looked the same way to me at first.

marjan
2008-01-03, 06:12 AM
I second Malconvoker as PrC. It will lose you a CL (which is bad) but get your summons nice benefits for your summons which is good option for dedicated summoner. And it will eventually get you Planar Binding (I'm not sure about this so you should check it out) to qualify for Thaumaturgist.

Jimbob
2008-01-03, 07:33 AM
I am playing a Conjurer also, and have taken the rapid summon variant from UA. At 4th level i will be going Master Specialist and my banded schools are EVO and ENCH (just a quick bit of background).
If your worried about lack of amount of 1st level spells you cast a good item from CMIC is Incense of Concentration. This allows you to prepair another 1st level spell, ok it costs 250gp and is a one use but still a great item. And also look at the orb spells you can get. These are Conj so you can have them and if you buy Arcanists Gloves these can increase a 1st level spell by 2 caster levels for 1 rnd, so instead of 1d8 you do 2d8 damage and for a mear 500gp another bargin.

If you focus on summons like a conjurer does then you need to boost your summons, but these have been mentioned already.

Keld Denar
2008-01-03, 08:58 AM
As a conjourer, you have 2 key elements of wizardom in your perfered school. The first is battlefield control, and the 2nd is mobility.

1st, on battlefield control. This is the hardest to prep for, but often the easiest to "wing it". Your key spells here are mostly your fogs and walls. Even the lowly 1st level Obscuring Mist shuts down any attempts at ranged attack suprise while your party is unprepared. This includes but is not limited to mounted archers strafing on an open plain, and giants raining boulders from superior ground. Stinking Cloud is the next real gem you get. If you have a druid with, you can combine Stinking Cloud with Entangle or Briar Web for a low level lockdown. Even without those spells, Stinking Cloud can force enemies out of a superior position, or negate them if they choose not to move. Solid Fog is probably the best spell for negating baddies. It gums up a foe for a minimum of 2 round baring teleport effects, no save, no SR. Thats 2 rounds your party can spend to buff or neutralize other combatants. Its also reletively low level compared to the improved versions. Cloudkill is ok, but really hindered by the fact that it moves away from you instead of staying put. Use it indoors when it can't move to greater effect. Freezing Fog and Acid Fog are both upgrades from Solid Fog. Freezing is the better of the 2. I've seen a mid level wizard SOLO a greater stone golem, because it couldn't make the reflex save vs the slipping effect, and because of that couldn't move out of the cloud. It eventually died to the 1d6 no SR damage per round. Acid Fog is really not that great. The damage is almost negligable at that level, and you should have better things to do with those high level slots. You are better off Solid Fogging and then using that high level slot to do something more meaningful.

For transportation and mobility, loot to PHBII and SC. The Dimensional X chain starting with Hop and ending with Door(PHB) are great for mobility. Don't forget to check the discriptions to see if you can bring friends with you! Benign Transposition is better than Baleful Transposition IMO. The fact that it has no save, and you don't have to worry about swapping bad things close to you is a good thing. A big trick with it is to you your familiar, especially if you have a hawk with a 60 fly speed. Have it fly up to an enemy, and then BT the hawk with your party fighter. Its the best way to allow him to get full attacks that doesn't involve pounce. Combine with a Lesser Rod of Quicken or normal Quicken as a 5th level spell, and you can still do other neat stuff in a round, such as using one of the above mentioned Fogs.

And now for something completely different:
Look up the feat Cloudy Conjourations from CM I think. Its another very nice defensive measure for your conjourer to keep you from getting charged or shot.

EDIT:


If your worried about lack of amount of 1st level spells you cast a good item from CMIC is Incense of Concentration. This allows you to prepair another 1st level spell, ok it costs 250gp and is a one use but still a great item.

No offense, but this is bad advice, bordering on horrible advice. If you want extra 1st levels spells, get Pearls of Power 1. At a cost of 1000g, they allow you to recall a 1st level spell once a day as a standard action. Use them between fights to recoup cast spells. A single pearl will pay for itself in just 4 DAYS vs the Incense. Granted, if you run out of spells in a single battle, it does take an action to recall, but that is 99/100 times better than blowing 250g for that extra action. Also, if you aren't burning through your own spells fast enough, you can pass the Pearls to your friendly cleric type so he can recall more healage for your butt. If the Incense was like....50g each, then it might be closer to being worth it, but at 1/4 the cost of a Pearl, no things.

Oh, and those Gloves would be a good idea if you can get em early. The biggest advantage of them would be that your Celestial Badger at level 1 would last a whole 3 rounds. Replace them with Gauntlets of Ghostfighting or a Caster Glove, or even Gloves of Dex after about level 5 if you can.

Jimbob
2008-01-04, 03:30 AM
Lussmanj - how is this horrible advice?? Granted if you have 1000gp to spend then yes a pearl of power is a good idea but at low levels you dont and yes 250gp might seem a bit steap but having that extra spell to cast at low levels will help, but i guess at the end of the day it comes down to different playing styles, if you want to spend all your money on one item then thats up to you, but I like to spread my money about and help maximise myself, not going cheese or any thing.
And as for the gloves the increase in caster level only lasts for a round so you can not use them on summons, as i mentioned spells like magic missile, any of the orb spells or even ray of emfeeblement would be increased by 2 levels.

Talic
2008-01-04, 03:54 AM
Lussmanj - how is this horrible advice?? Granted if you have 1000gp to spend then yes a pearl of power is a good idea but at low levels you dont and yes 250gp might seem a bit steap but having that extra spell to cast at low levels will help, but i guess at the end of the day it comes down to different playing styles, if you want to spend all your money on one item then thats up to you, but I like to spread my money about and help maximise myself, not going cheese or any thing.
And as for the gloves the increase in caster level only lasts for a round so you can not use them on summons, as i mentioned spells like magic missile, any of the orb spells or even ray of emfeeblement would be increased by 2 levels.
It's bad because the 1 extra action is rarely needed before 4th level or so, when a PC has enough WBL to justify a pearl of power. at levels 1-3, you shouldn't need to blow your cash that badly to get an extra spell.

Triaxx
2008-01-04, 09:32 AM
Thurmaturgist wants Lesser planar ally. Of course if you could get the DM to fudge that it would work.

Keld Denar
2008-01-04, 11:08 AM
Lussmanj - how is this horrible advice?? Granted if you have 1000gp to spend then yes a pearl of power is a good idea but at low levels you dont and yes 250gp might seem a bit steap but having that extra spell to cast at low levels will help, but i guess at the end of the day it comes down to different playing styles, if you want to spend all your money on one item then thats up to you, but I like to spread my money about and help maximise myself, not going cheese or any thing.
And as for the gloves the increase in caster level only lasts for a round so you can not use them on summons, as i mentioned spells like magic missile, any of the orb spells or even ray of emfeeblement would be increased by 2 levels.

Because of the cost/benefit ratio. The pearl pays for itself after only 4 uses (~4 days). The Incense costs 250g, and you have to use it when you are prepping spells, which means you have to know that there is a big fight coming up. With some DM foreshadowing, this is possible, but at those levels, even that extra 1st level spell isn't a huge deal. The pearl is a much wiser investment if you are buying stuff. A character should have around 1000g by the time they hit 2nd level, and a good buy for that 1st level wizard would be a single pearl. At low levels, this increases his daily staying power by ~25%, and at high levels, its still getting used to recall useful spells like Nerveskitter. Its a solid investment that is better than the incense in almost ALL situations. Unless your DM hands it over in a treasure pile, it should not be purchased by the PCs, and even then, try to sell it for cash to buy the pearl. There are many good items in the MIC, that item is not one. In actual practical play, it has pretty much zero value, and even less compared to the versitility of the pearl.

Cormac
2008-01-04, 05:06 PM
I would like to affirm the use of the unearthed arcana variant to give up your familiar to cast summoning spells as a standard action. I also highly recommend the malconvoker. it seems like it fits your character well. getting to have planar binding (and thus a high powered ally that doesnt get xp with you, at all times).
As far as power goes, though, i would say that druids are far better summoners. this seems like less of a fit for your character, but i just wanted to put it out there.

Chronicled
2008-01-04, 05:09 PM
Eh, the PHB2 familiar trade is the best one around for a Conjurer (and pretty much period. It's an almost broken variant).

Collin152
2008-01-04, 05:35 PM
Just thought i'd throw in (hopefully this is still relevent to somebody) that Planar Binding involves opposed Charisma checks, and a staple of the iconic Conjurer.