OOTS #518 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

Given that this is being posted during "business hours" in the US, I expect there to be some heavy server slowdown once the RSS feed goes out. The message board may have to come down for a few hours as a result.

Oh, and Erfworld is new, too.

[Nerd-o-rama]

It's not an evocation either, but Tsukiko probably follows the Xykon school of "doesn't really give a crap about details".

Also, glad I got up relatively early this morning.

[Leper_Kahn]

Wait... Then which orifice was it?
:smallbiggrin:

[Samiel_Fronsac]

Tsukiko is a mean, mean person... I like her. xD

[Frosty]

Well, technically, Tsukiko didn't use Orb of Electricity (which is Conjuration). She used another spells called Electric Orb, which could very well be evocation. Rich is good at avoiding any copyright issues :smallamused:

[Zordrath]

Ouch. THAT must have hurt. About time Tsukiko displayed some awesomeness, though :smallamused:

[MBV]

Nice touch with the last panel, loved the discussion between Haley and Tsukiko.

Seems like Haley is in trouble

time for the sexy shoeless god of war to step in, and save the day! (Let's hope his will-save has improved since the Nale-incident)

[Vectner]

Ouch, that's gotta hurt!

[Ryuuk]

Nice effect on the orb, didn't expect to have her fly out of the comic.

[Nargrakhan]

Tsukiko! Tsukiko! Tsukiko!

TSUKIKO!!! :smallsmile:

Show that arrow shooting twit what a REAL beauty can do, my oh so lovely asian goth girl! Then dress is elegant lolita fashions and win the heart of any undead man you want.

Oh... how I wish I was a dashing vampire to sweep her off her feet! :smallredface:

[chibibar]

wow.... that is painful... she got knocked out of the frame.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

The real trick will be getting a new strip up before Saturday, otherwise Tsukiko just blasted Haley into next week!

[orcmonk89]

OK, that looked painful... Straight out the comic!

[Pyro]

I like it when the Giant does stuff like this, like with Roy's falling panel. It makes the comic more unique.

[ptmc2112]

So, what wall DID get broken, the 1st, the 2nd, or 3rd?

[Barbolanero]

Will Hayley have to climb back to the comic? Or has she been blown up to another universe?. Can you imagine all the crazy posts until next comic!!!!! Great strip, and solves lots of issues to (like the remarkably unimportant issue of why they knew each other names).

Great strip

[KIDS]

Aahahahahahah! The effect at the end "not core..." and Haley flying out of the panel was a brilliant technique :)

[drewnchick]

Wow! Blasted right off my screen!! I'd like to see how they put THAT one in the next published book.

[Guts]

Ouch. Dang, Haley got blasted out the comic. At least she tried to put some sense in Tsukiko both physically and mentally (woman to woman).

[Ceres]

Badass. Pure badass. But electric orb isn't really that powerful, is it?

[Blanth]

Woooo! That's got to hurt.

I am so hoping she does end up taking a level in Favored Enemy - Airborne Tramp. I mean really, she's got this bad history of in flight hoochies, you'd think she might have caught on about it a while ago but nooooo...

[Darkhands]

Looks like that's one of the hardest hits in the history of the comic! :smalleek: Who's gonna pay for the repairs to the 3rd wall?!

[wagomorph]

We need whatever the SSHGOW can do. She's not undead. Can he do anything??

[Wych]

go Tsukiko!

thought it was a bit suspicious when a protagonist started winning easilly.

[inthesto]

I have to wonder how many characters have been ended with the words "That's not core..."

[wagomorph]

Looks like that's one of the hardest hits in the history of the comic! :smalleek: Who's gonna pay for the repairs to the 3rd wall?!

I'm from New Orleans. We can repair ANYTHING!!!!!!

[r2e]

That last panel would make a slick T-Shirt :smallsmile:

[Fingolfin]

What an amazing action comic we have in this week. The battle between two ladies and the witty comments fit perfectly.

And I especially liked the last scene, how it stretched even outside the comic panel :smallbiggrin:

[memnarch]

So, what wall DID get broken, the 1st, the 2nd, or 3rd?

I'd take a guess at 3rd. I wonder how much damage Haley took because of that; I mean it looked really painful, but we don't know what potions she took before taking on Tsukiko do we? *edit* Also, loved the surprise there last panel.


Round four? does that imply that Haley and Tsukiko have met three time previous?

[bird2234]

Hm...
Is Haley going to be stuck out of the comic for several strips?
I have to admit, that'd be kind of funny.

[Szilard]

That was kind of cool!

[Oslecamo]

Hmm, they said it was the 4th round, so they already know each other well.

I'm suprised Tsukiko didn't go down. Haley has around +7d6 sneack attack damage.

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.

Yet, she cured everything with a measly cure critical wounds!!!!

And yeah, I agree that like Shykon she doesn't care about what she is shooting as long as it is flashy. C'mon, attacking a rogue with reflex or dies, for 4 combats?

[Tundar]

Out the frame, that's gotta hurt!

Poor Haley...

[Fitzclowningham]

How many attack-roll spells could Tsukiko have prepared? I think Haley still has a very good shot.

[Zarah]

The real trick will be getting a new strip up before Saturday, otherwise Tsukiko just blasted Haley into next week!

That honestly made me laugh out loud.

The suspense of these last bunch of strips is killing me, but I love every minute of it. Can't wait to see what happens next! :smallbiggrin:

[docstrange]

Wait... Then which orifice was it?
:smallbiggrin:

Nice thing about arrows is, they make new ones!

[Tadpole]

Hmm, they said it was the 4th round, so they already know each other well... And yeah, I agree that like Shykon she doesn't care about what she is shooting as long as it is flashy. C'mon, attacking a rogue with reflex or dies, for 4 combats?I assumed she meant "combat rounds." Depending on when the combat officially started, it probably took Haley a few rounds to drink the potions and get into position before making her first attack.

[timbuck_hunter]

could this possibly be the first knock out of comic? I don't remember others.

[jedin]

While I'm a big fan of conflict and tension in a narrative, I've gotta get down on my knees and ask:

"Please, Mr. Burlew, can the good guys have a win?"

I'm not in a position to sift through the archives at the moment, but it certainly feels like it's been a long time since our protagonists had an unqualified victory; kinda feels like they're never moving forward....

On a different note, hilarious dialogue! "Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp)"? Classic! I do really enjoy the characters' wit--don't see much intelligent humor like that elsewhere these days.

[factotum]

I, too, am really intrigued to see how on earth Rich is going to fit this one into the paperback...mind you, I guess strips like Roy's fall to earth will be interesting to see when War and XPs is released!

Loved the fight, but I agree with jedin...it would be nice for the good guys to get an unqualified victory sometime before strip #600. :smallbiggrin:

[Nargrakhan]

"Please, Mr. Burlew, can the good guys have a win?"

The good guys have won: Roy wore the "bad ass" crown around his neck for awhile, remember?

If OotS was compared to Star Wars (huge leap, I know) - then this leg of the story is The Lich Strikes Back - that is to say, evil is gonna win some major victories until we get our Return of the Fighter. :smalltongue:

[nli10]

Bravo I say. Masses of action in this one and a Calvin & Hobbes style unconventional finish to boot.

[Craig1f]

I, too, am really intrigued to see how on earth Rich is going to fit this one into the paperback...mind you, I guess strips like Roy's fall to earth will be interesting to see when War and XPs is released!

My guess is that it will be on the left page, not the right page, and will extend into the right page.

That was an awesome fight. It's cool to see Haley with her serious face on. She's normally pretty care-free.

[Mc. Lovin']

This is gonna be a bitch to put in the compilation book

[David Argall]

Hmm, they said it was the 4th round, so they already know each other well.

I'm suprised Tsukiko didn't go down. Haley has around +7d6 sneack attack damage.

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.
You only get 1 sneak attack damage a round, so that is only 3(1d8+1d6)+7d6 = about 50 damage, and Tsukiko has about 3(d6)+10d4 +13con bonus, which can put her in the 60's.


Yet, she cured everything with a measly cure critical wounds!!!!
Well, that would be about 30 hp, and Thanh helped out with about 10. But this seems to confirm that Tsukiko is no more than 13th level or maybe she just doesn't like casting Heal.


And yeah, I agree that like Shykon she doesn't care about what she is shooting as long as it is flashy. C'mon, attacking a rogue with reflex or dies, for 4 combats?
Yes, we all get to feel like we are much better tacticians than Tsukiko, tho she did have one good idea [which should not be enough. It should do about 13d6 and Haley has 13d6+ con bonus and will need another whack to go down.



This is gonna be a bitch to put in the compilation book
But it might look pretty good to crash out of one page and then crash back into the comic on the next. So maybe we will be seeing some other folk until about the last part of the next page.



I assumed she meant "combat rounds."
No, this is the 4th time the two have battled [The other three likely having mostly consisted of Tsukiko arriving at the scene and Haley getting her tail out of there like a sensible rogue.]
We have wight and Tsukiko counting and getting to 8 as Haley interrupts.

As to Haley's question of why she gets the flying tramps? Well, part of the answer is the ladies cheat when they talk about equality of the sexes and it is still not proper for a boy to hit a lady. So Haley has to do most of the work vs female foes.

[Bitzeralisis]

Hey, look, the panel broke.

[dogmac]

Ouch! Poor Haley.

I just loved the line "And then one day you turn 17....."

Hehehehe....

I still have goth urges, mind you, and I'm over double that.

[SteveMB]

This is gonna be a bitch to put in the compilation book

Hmmm... perhaps

the next page will show what Belkar is up to, and the bottom left frame will show Haley getting knocked into the scene.

[Doctor Zuber]

Did I overlook a panel where Tsukiko tells us that she is a specialist caster and thus somehow denied herself access to stoneskin? Or is she simply too retarded to learn the spell and or to even simply cast it in a useful way?

I seriously doubt whether she had a realistic chance of surviving that first round of attacks against a rogue like that. Even assuming no damage bonuses at all It's quite a stretch, but with 3 potions stacked up, fiery arrows, and whatever possible damage bonuses haley might have to her arrows, it's downright absurd for her to have survived that single combat round without at least some form of defensive spell.

Ah well, What should I expect. Just because I play with munchkins all the time doesn't mean everybody has to play that way. =P At least Tsukiko finally came up with one clever idea in this. Good use of a spell requiring an attack roll.

[Healer Hobo]

Tsukiko! Tsukiko! Tsukiko!

TSUKIKO!!! :smallsmile:

Show that arrow shooting twit what a REAL beauty can do, my oh so lovely asian goth girl! Then dress is elegant lolita fashions and win the heart of any undead man you want.

Oh... how I wish I was a dashing vampire to sweep her off her feet! :smallredface:


Ok, A: You scare me. Go see a psychiatrist. Second, Awesome comic Giant as always. It's the little bits here and there that count.

[AyuVince]

"Favored Enemy (Airborne tramp)" So that means she'll get +1 on all attack and damage rolls, Spot checks, Wilderness Lore checks and Listen checks when used against Airborne hussies? I wonder how you track flying creatures.

"Your dark middle-class angst isn't all that meaningful in a world with flesh-and-blood demons" XD Great. Haley's experienced with that kind of stuff.

[Tobimaro]

Loved the banter between our two combatants. But Tsukiko shows the best way for an arcane caster to defeat a rogue in combat. Do not rely on area-effect spells (reflex save and improved evasion) and go with spells that use attack rolls (scorching ray and the orbs).

[Gamerlord]

The good guys have won: Roy wore the "bad ass" crown around his neck for awhile, remember?

If OotS was compared to Star Wars (huge leap, I know) - then this leg of the story is The Lich Strikes Back - that is to say, evil is gonna win some major victories until we get our Return of the Fighter. :smalltongue:

hmm....lets see the 3 acts...

act 1:this in all storys,is the start,some minor battles possibly with a huge victroy later on for good guys (i.e death star 1)

act 2: trouble comes for the good guys,evil starts gaining the upper hand.

act 3: comeback for good guys,fianl battle,good guys win war.

[bingo_bob]

Hmm... what do you think the odds are that all of this is going to lead to an undead Haley? Tsukiko's earlier 'a mile in their shoes' comment seems to indicate that.

[e1_conquistador]

The good guys have won: Roy wore the "bad ass" crown around his neck for awhile, remember?

That was comic #114 - we're currently on #518.

Not saying there haven't been minor victories, but they do seem to be outnumbered by setbacks & obstacles, for whatever it's worth. Challenges are more exciting than victories, to be sure.

I'd settle for knowing Mr Fluffy's fate!

[Balkash]

Shame on you Giant! Now you clean up that mess this instant young man!:smallmad:

[TroyXavier]

Very fun. Haley had that one coming. Go Tsukiko.

[zoobie]

This plot's bogging a bit, move things along, Rich!

[Sequinox]

So... Which wall was that?

[SteveMB]

This plot's bogging a bit, move things along, Rich!

Art takes time. Besides, if the plot moves fast, the end of the story will arrive too soon.... :smalleek:

[SPoD]

I'm suprised Tsukiko didn't go down. Haley has around +7d6 sneack attack damage.

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.

Yet, she cured everything with a measly cure critical wounds!!!!

Tsukiko may have cast Stoneskin before she teleported in. It would have reduced the damage from each Sneak Attack by 10.That would be 30 less in the first panel, making it far more likely to be healed by the combo of CCW and Lay on Hands.

I mean, she does tell the wights that they have their buff spells active--and she cast Fly before 'porting, which lasts 1/10th as long as Stoneskin--so it would make sense for her to be buffed too.

In a more general sense, I think Rich has pretty much stopped showing us every spell that could affect a combat. At a certain point, we need to be able to say, "Wow, Tsukiko stood up to that? She must have prepared better than I thought," instead of "Wow, Tsukiko stood up to that? Rich must have screwed up the rules."

[Pronounceable]

That is what is commonly called a pwn.

[Faramir]

The real trick will be getting a new strip up before Saturday, otherwise Tsukiko just blasted Haley into next week!

Oh, well done!

[Warlord JK]

Poor Haley...
And could someone tell me where I could find Electric Orb or post the info for it? I'm playing a wizard right now.

[Alfryd]

The real trick will be getting a new strip up before Saturday, otherwise Tsukiko just blasted Haley into next week!
Actually, the real trick would be getting two new strips up before monday.

How come Thanh failed his Will save when told to heal a known enemy in a critical battle? Surely that counts as 'against his nature'?

Show that arrow shooting twit what a REAL beauty can do, my oh so lovely asian goth girl! Then dress is elegant lolita fashions and win the heart of any undead man you want.
And I thought I was obsessive.

Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

[nybbler]

That was a mighty up-powered orb... best I can find out about similarly-named spells gives them 1d6 per caster level of damage, no stunning or disarming effects (and Haley wouldn't have much metal around to be subject to the other special effects). Which would put Tsukiko in a world of hurt as she lost her invisibility doing the attack.

However, with Haley apparently stunned and disarmed, looks like she's the one in trouble.

[SPoD]

Actually, the real trick would be getting two new strips up before monday.

How come Thanh failed his Will save when told to heal a known enemy in a critical battle? Surely that counts as 'against his nature'?

Did you see how she worded it? "I've been wounded by that thief." Healing someone wounded by a thief would be well within the paladin's normal activities. Remember, this is Dominate Person (a 5th level spell), not Charm Person (a 1st level spell); it has to be truly opposed to their nature to warrant a save. If the DM determined that every single act of obeying Tsukiko was against Thanh's nature, then the spell would be meaningless:

Tsukiko: Follow me over here.
Thanh: Following someone who is Evil is against my nature! New saving throw!

Tsukiko: Stand still.
Thanh: Obeying an order from someone who is Evil is against my nature! New saving throw!

See what I mean? There has to be a point at which the spell can compel you to do things you'd rather not do, or else it might as well not exist. Healing someone who is injured is, apparently, on this side of that line.


Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

Therkla.

EDIT: Aslo, there's no real evidence in the comic that Tsukiko is attractive anyway. People just assume it.

[Corvec]

Poor Haley...
And could someone tell me where I could find Electric Orb or post the info for it? I'm playing a wizard right now.

It's in the Complete Arcane, which is a very nice book for wizards.

As a warmage, I've found that the orb spells can be very useful. As a level 13 warmage, I do 13d6 damage - ignoring spell resistance and not allowing a save - with only a ranged touch attack. Even though I focus on area attacks, there have still been times when I've managed to take half the health off a boss with a single empowered orb of [x]. EDIT: They also have a cool side effect if the recipient doesn't make a fortitude save. Electricity entangles, acid sickens, fire dazes, sound deafens, and cold blinds.

Speaking of empowered spells: there's a pretty awesome feat that lets your metamagic feats have a change of 1 less (to a minimum of 1). Combine that with Versatile Spellcaster (EDIT: spells of level x can be cast using two spell slots of level X-1) and you have a pretty powerful combination (empowered disintegrate, anyone?)

And yeah - it seems like a lot of people have forgotten (or disregarded the rule) that you only get sneak attack damage once per round... which sucks. EDIT: Though Tsukiko did say "Now let me just erase those sneak attacks."

It's too bad that Haley didn't hide and use only a single attack per round; that would have been the strategy I would have taken as a rogue. Though that likely would've resulted in a tragic game of patty-cake...

I'm betting on Belkar.

[YohanLeafheart]

Hmm about the Electric Orb thing, isn't that the name of Orb of Electricity on 3.0? If that's so, anyone got both books (3.0 and 3.5 editions) to see if 3.0 is much better and was house ruled for such?

Anyways hell of great comic, laughed a lot. Favored Enemy (Airborne Tramp) is on the list of things to do with a character now.

[Schulzy]

The airborne tramp comment made me laugh, and getting blown out of the comic is nifty.

If we weren't in such a serious part of the plot, I would fully expect a mini story arc about Haley getting stuck outside of the comic. As it is, I expect she'll make a snarky comment about it and get back to the fight.

[SomethingElse]

I don't see a "plot bog" at all... I don't know what people are talking about. In the last couple of weeks they've introduced a new villain, brought back old villains, and several PCs are in jeopardy - and as we've seen before, PCs actually can be in jeopardy in this comic.

My guess is Haley will win this fight, but there will be some consequences. I've never been good at predicting OotS, though...

[SPoD]

And yeah - it seems like a lot of people have forgotten (or disregarded the rule) that you only get sneak attack damage once per round... which sucks.

They "forgot or disregarded" it primarily because it's not true. You can get Sneak Attack damage for any attack during which the opponent is flat-footed. Haley won initiative and made a full attack, so she gets Sneak Attack damage for every arrow.

Hell, she even did it just 6 comics ago, in #512. She dishes out three Sneak Attacks to the hobgoblins in panel #5 and specifically says so!

[EntilZha]

It seems pretty clear that Tsukiko's arcane class is in fact Wizard, considering her statement that she "looked up some evocations."

[Phae Nymna]

Tsukiko! Tsukiko! Tsukiko!

TSUKIKO!!! :smallsmile:

Show that arrow shooting twit what a REAL beauty can do, my oh so lovely asian goth girl! Then dress is elegant lolita fashions and win the heart of any undead man you want.

Oh... how I wish I was a dashing vampire to sweep her off her feet! :smallredface:

Even though I have loyalty to Haley and therefore would argue that she is not a twit and is in fact one of my favourite characters, I completely agree. I would VERY much like to be a vampire to be her lover.

[Schulzy]

Ooh, I have an afterthought. As for the compilation book, I expect that this comic will be printed on the left page, with Haley getting blasted onto the right page. The resulting giant blank spot on the right page will contain commentary, extras, or whatnot.

[EntilZha]

Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

No way, dude, geeks (like me) love the hot powerful female characters. :smallredface:

[Phae Nymna]

I'm from New Orleans. We can repair ANYTHING!!!!!!

HELL YES!!!

[CGM3]

Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

Probably not. Nowadays, even M*ry M*rv*l has the kind of curves you'd expect to find on a Las Vegas showgirl! :smalleek:

[fractal]

Too bad Haley didn't manage to dodge the Electric Orb. Her touch AC has to be at least 14, while Tsukiko's BAB is about +6, and presumably she doesn't have too much Dex (since we know she has Int, Wis, and enough Con to survive 3 sneak attacks). I forget what the defensive penalty for not seeing your opponent is... 2 or 4? If it's only 2, Haley had at least a decent chance of avoiding the Orb.

Regarding Tsukiko, we now know she's probably level 12 or 13 (5th level spells, but not Heal on herself or Harm on Xykon). She may also have a fondness for temporary hit points, since even after all visible damage was healed, she was still only "almost" as good as new. That would also help explain how she suvived 3 sneak attacks with an amount of damage that could be healed by a Cure Crit and a low level Lay on Hands.

[Blaznak]

Ooooh Orby Evilness! Nifty!

But how many hit points did the paladin heal? I thought earlier one of the characters commented he was 4th level, but that would only be like 12 or 16 hps. Maybe I read that wrong. Any guesses?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

:smalleek: I think by this point "Ouch" is an understatement!

[SomethingElse]

Ooooh Orby Evilness! Nifty!

But how many hit points did the paladin heal? I thought earlier one of the characters commented he was 4th level, but that would only be like 12 or 16 hps. Maybe I read that wrong. Any guesses?

I don't think the paladin has healed her yet - I think he's just on standby. Am I wrong?

[Corvec]

They "forgot or disregarded" it primarily because it's not true. You can get Sneak Attack damage for any attack during which the opponent is flat-footed. Haley won initiative and made a full attack, so she gets Sneak Attack damage for every arrow.

Hell, she even did it just 6 comics ago, in #512. She dishes out three Sneak Attacks to the hobgoblins in panel #5 and specifically says so!

Hmm. After actually looking up the rules - you're completely right. I wonder why my DM didn't let our Spellthief get multiple sneak attacks off in a single round?

EDIT: Actually, as someone on the next page points out, the thing that keeps her from getting multiple instances of sneak attack damage is ManyShot, which lets her take multiple simultaneous shots with a bow. However, if she'd used rapid shot or a regular full round attack action, that wouldn't be an issue. At 13th level, though, she'd have a BAB of +9 - giving her two attacks. At the least, she'd have had to have used Rapid Shot (which would have been a better idea).

So... rapid shot or manyshot?

Manyshot doesn't look like it has any advantage over rapidshot to me.

[Kyeudo]

Kudos to the Giant for breaking the third wall this time.

[sihnfahl]

Too bad Haley didn't manage to dodge the Electric Orb. Her touch AC has to be at least 14, while Tsukiko's BAB is about +6, and presumably she doesn't have too much Dex (since we know she has Int, Wis, and enough Con to survive 3 sneak attacks). I forget what the defensive penalty for not seeing your opponent is... 2 or 4? If it's only 2, Haley had at least a decent chance of avoiding the Orb.

Well, Tsukiko gets a +2 to attack, and ignores all of Haley's dex bonus to AC by being invisible. Also, because it's a ranged touch attack, it also ignores armor bonuses.

Tsukiko's at least wizard 3 (BAB 1), cleric 3 (BAB 2) and MT 6 (BAB 3). BAB 6 + 2 (from being invisible) = attack bonus 8 vs AC 10?


But how many hit points did the paladin heal? I thought earlier one of the characters commented he was 4th level, but that would only be like 12 or 16 hps. Maybe I read that wrong. Any guesses?
No, the board posits he's at least 4th level (minimum for paladins to turn undead). All the characters note is that he'd run out of levels by the second line of pattycake - which might put him between levels 6 and 9.

[SomethingElse]

Hmm. After actually looking up the rules - you're completely right. I wonder why my DM didn't let our Spellthief get multiple sneak attacks off in a single round?

I think those rules are really easy to misread.

[Forevergrey]

and... SHE'S OUTTA THERE!

[shaddy_24]

Well, Tsukiko gets a +2 to attack, and ignores all of Haley's dex bonus to AC by being invisible. Also, because it's a ranged touch attack, it also ignores armor bonuses.

Tsukiko's at least wizard 3 (BAB 1), cleric 3 (BAB 2) and MT 6 (BAB 3). BAB 6 + 2 (from being invisible) = attack bonus 8 vs AC 10?

No, actually, rogues have uncanny dodge. They keep their Dex to AC if attacked flat footed or by an invisible foe. And she gets if at 4th level, so she's had it for a while.

On a different note, I like the banter between them. It was really funny, and the sort of thing I could actually see someone saying at a time like that.

[Corvec]

Too bad Haley didn't manage to dodge the Electric Orb. Her touch AC has to be at least 14, while Tsukiko's BAB is about +6, and presumably she doesn't have too much Dex (since we know she has Int, Wis, and enough Con to survive 3 sneak attacks). I forget what the defensive penalty for not seeing your opponent is... 2 or 4? If it's only 2, Haley had at least a decent chance of avoiding the Orb.

Even with 10 Dex and no magic items, she only needs to roll an 8 or above. Considering the circumstance bonus of 2 to 4 (are you sure it's not more?) - that's a 65% plus 10% to 20% - so 75% to 85% chance for Haley to get hit. That's not much of a chance (not one I'd bet on, at least). Rolling a 4 or above happens a lot, especially when the DM's rolling behind the screen.

[Dinkyass]

Heh. I wonder if Haley getting blasted out of the comic makes her have some sort of weird revalation. Like, "Wait, my entire life was a webcomic?".

*Cue Twilight Zone music*

[sihnfahl]

No, actually, rogues have uncanny dodge. They keep their Dex to AC if attacked flat footed or by an invisible foe. And she gets if at 4th level, so she's had it for a while.
Ah, forgot to factor that in. So that puts it at AC 15 (Rich said her Dex bonus is +5) vs an attack bonus of 8. Odds favor Tsukiko anyway.

[vrellum]

Rules for sneak attack:

1. In order to deliver a sneak attack
A. the rogue must either flank his opponent
B. the rogue's opponent must be denied his dex bonus to AC
2. The opponent must be succeptable to sneak attack damage (discernable anatomy).
3. If these conditions are met every attack the rogue lands does sneak attack damage.

However, the rules for many shot state that if multiple arrows are fired, only one of them is eligible for sneak attack damage. Thus Haley fires three flaming arrows, they all hit. The damage from them is approximately 3X(1d8 (bow damage) + greater of (X (bow enhancment bonus) or y (arrow enhancement bonus)) + 1d6 (flaming damage from arrow) + o (any other bonus the arrows have, such as shocking (likely to be zero) + z (strength mod, if applicable) + other mods, like bardic music, etc, which are also likely to be zero) + 7d6 (sneak attack damage, assuming she's 13th level). This amounts to around 50 points of damage on average, assuming minimum figures (no strength mod, not better than +1 bow or flaming arrows +1, etc.)

Odds are she won't drop Tsukiko in one round. However, if she had been lucky (and this was really following the rules) she could have attacked in the surprise round and done about 50 pts of damage, won initiative and attacked again for another 50 pts of damage or so and that would have probably done her in (unless she missed, which given the big penalties for many shot is not too big of an assumption).

[Ringmereth]

Funny banter, Rich. But what I'm wondering is how Tsukiko survived the arrow embedded in her skull. That looked pretty unpleasant, not to mention detrimental to her ability to heal up... or, y'know, keep breathing.

[SomethingElse]

Funny banter, Rich. But what I'm wondering is how Tsukiko survived the arrow embedded in her skull. That looked pretty unpleasant, not to mention detrimental to her ability to heal up... or, y'know, keep breathing.

It's called "D&D tropes," in short. Yes, D&D interpreted in the way that I shall call "progressive" would say that a successful sneak attack would not actually hit vital regions like that, part of the point of this comic is to parody the silliness of literal D&D rules.

[Forevergrey]

Heh. I wonder if Haley getting blasted out of the comic makes her have some sort of weird revalation. Like, "Wait, my entire life was a webcomic?".

*Cue Twilight Zone music*

In what is an ultimate ironry, she's now doomed to float around the void forever, playing D&D with Gary Gygax, Al Gore and Fry.

[Alysar]

Mr Berlew, you have outdone yourself.

I have got to see how Rich fits this one into a book.

[dish]

Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

Probably not. Nowadays, even M*ry M*rv*l has the kind of curves you'd expect to find on a Las Vegas showgirl!

Guys, this is a comic of stick figures. We have absolutely no idea of how good looking each character is until other characters in the comic tell us by their reactions.

We have no idea of whether Tsukiko is good-looking or not, or even how old she is until one of the characters tells us. Until then all this 'sexy goth lolita' nonsense is coming direct from someone's imagination.

We had no idea of whether Miko was a 'hot Asian kung fu chick' (I hate that term soooo much, but I'm not going to rant about it here). All we knew was that Roy originally wanted to pursue her for a sexual relationship (and that the other characters thought he was crazy for it).

The only character that we know for sure is 'hot' and definitely 'good-looking' and who causes large numbers of characters of the opposite sex to swoon is - Elan. (Thank you for that Giant. Thank you.)

This isn't Marvel with it's curves, objectification and over-sexualization. This is the Giant with storming good female characters of all shades and varieties who have brains (Celia, anyone?), strong motivations, and meaningful, plot-centric roles.

[Alysar]

We had no idea of whether Miko was a 'hot Asian kung fu chick'

"Hot kung-fu chick"

First panel, right here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0220.html).

[SomethingElse]

"Hot kung-fu chick"

First panel, right here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0220.html).

Looks to me like Belkar making a point. Any girl is hotter, to a straight male, than a short, hairy man.

[Covenantwgw]

I wonder how he's gonna do this strip when it goes to book form?

Also...this comic is made of 100% pure win!

[David Argall]

We had no idea of whether Miko was a 'hot Asian kung fu chick' (I hate that term soooo much, but I'm not going to rant about it here). All we knew was that Roy originally wanted to pursue her for a sexual relationship (and that the other characters thought he was crazy for it).
We also have the opinion of Sabine that Miko was hot stuff.


This isn't Marvel with it's curves, objectification and over-sexualization. This is the Giant with storming good female characters of all shades and varieties who have brains (Celia, anyone?), strong motivations, and meaningful, plot-centric roles.
And big boobs unless we are told otherwise.

[Terbovus]

ooo, nice. Though the question I have to ask (and its the same with the wonderful :roy: falling strip) is how will it translate to the trade paperback? A special fold-out bit? Talking of which, when do we get the follow on to Paladin blues - I appreciate that Rich likes the artistic potential of webcomics (which was exploited to the full on the aforementioned falling strip) but when you have a crappy slow web connection its nice to have a hard copy you can read on the loo :smile:


Amendment: I really should read all the posts before posting. Have to be the fifth person to ask that *doh*

[SomethingElse]

We also have the opinion of Sabine that Miko was hot stuff.
Is there really anyone of a "Hollywood attractive" age in the comic who can't be assumed to be "hot," though? I don't really see that we can argue that attractive women being common in the comic is somehow evidence of Rich being sexist, especially not when everyone in the comic who isn't old or Belkar seems to have been found attractive by someone or other...

[osyluth]

ooo, nice. Though the question I have to ask (and its the same with the wonderful :roy: falling strip) is how will it translate to the trade paperback? A special fold-out bit? Talking of which, when do we get the follow on to Paladin blues - I appreciate that Rich likes the artistic potential of webcomics (which was exploited to the full on the aforementioned falling strip) but when you have a crappy slow web connection its nice to have a hard copy you can read on the loo :smile:

And. as commented in many of the prefaces, you can waste your money on something that you can get for free (although these prefaces themselves are not actually free). :smallwink:

[Terbovus]

And. as commented in many of the prefaces, you can waste your money on something that you can get for free (although these prefaces themselves are not actually free). :smallwink:

Ah but no! How can it possibly be a waste when it keeps Rich drawing full-time! Hard-earned cash well spent methinks! :tongue:

[SomethingElse]

And. as commented in many of the prefaces, you can waste your money on something that you can get for free (although these prefaces themselves are not actually free). :smallwink:

I don't know if I'd call it a waste of money. It supports the comic that we all know and love, and from a purely self-interested sense, it gives us something that, as Terbovus puts, we can read on the loo :) Plus, we can show it to friends who don't necessarily want to go through what I did, i.e. hours of downloading to get the next installment.

[osyluth]

I don't know if I'd call it a waste of money. It supports the comic that we all know and love, and from a purely self-interested sense, it gives us something that, as Terbovus puts, we can read on the loo :) Plus, we can show it to friends who don't necessarily want to go through what I did, i.e. hours of downloading to get the next installment.

Woooow........ now that's a slow computer. Mine takes like six seconds.

[SomethingElse]

Woooow........ now that's a slow computer. Mine takes like six seconds.
Well, if you live in the boondocks like my parents Internet speeds are the same as they were ten or more years ago if you're lucky. And in the dorms I have to deal with a hundred or so other fratboys downloading that which fratboys such as ourselves tend to download ;)

[Cedworth]

"Hot kung-fu chick"

First panel, right here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0220.html).

You have to consider the source though. This is coming from a halfling that lusts after Mrs. Butterworth according to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html). So, :belkar: 's opinions about someone's attractiveness shouldn't be taken very seriously.

[the_tick_rules]

so is the mage community berating tuskiko yet for wasting her time on a hp damage spell?

[Wonton]

And yeah - it seems like a lot of people have forgotten (or disregarded the rule) that you only get sneak attack damage once per round... which sucks. EDIT: Though Tsukiko did say "Now let me just erase those sneak attacks."

What? Really? Do you mean it's because of manyshot? Cause that I can see.. but I was pretty sure that a rogue flanking and doing a full attack could get a sneak attack on every hit.

[factotum]

Heh. I wonder if Haley getting blasted out of the comic makes her have some sort of weird revalation. Like, "Wait, my entire life was a webcomic?".

*Cue Twilight Zone music*

The people in the comic already KNOW they're in a comic. See, for example, strip #458 where Thog says "nale only been gone for four panels".

[Cute_Riolu]

However, the rules for many shot state that if multiple arrows are fired, only one of them is eligible for sneak attack damage.

Just because she has Manyshot doesn't mean she used it. It would be a bad choice to do so, for just that reason.

[Frosty]

You only get 1 sneak attack damage a round, so that is only 3(1d8+1d6)+7d6 = about 50 damage.

Umm where the heck did you get idea from? You can get as many sneak attacks as you have actual attacks, as long as you continue to meet the qualifications to sneak attack.

1) If you flank your enemy, you can full-round attack and get off sneak attacks for every hit

2) If your enemy is flat-footed (hasn't acted for the first time yet. Haley most likely won inititiative. This is probably what happened in the comic)

3) If you are under the effects of Greater Invisibility, you can continue attacking and always get sneak attacks because your enemy is flat-footed against you.

4) Even if somehow you can only get one attack option off, you can still use Greater Manyshot (which is part of the SRD posted online. It is originally from the Expanded Psionics Handbook) and each of the arrows can do sneak attack damage. This is also possibly what happened, if Haley spent the feats for it.

[Alynn]

You CAN get multiple sneak attacks in a round. But each has to be on it's own separate attack roll... In other words, with many shot, you do one attack roll for all the arrows, therefore only one application of sneak attack. However, Haley (assuming 13th level) gets 2 attacks per round with a full attack from her bow (3 if one of those potions were haste) gets sneak attack damage for each one of her attacks because she has to do a separate roll for each attack.

[Wonton]

Ah. I knew I was right.

On another note, I'd say, in the way these arrows were shot, it's pretty clear that Haley used Manyshot.

Unless of course, she shot her three attacks from a full attack with different strengths so that they all arrived in Tsukiko at the same time despite being shot separately. :smalleek:

But, somehow, I find that unlikely. :smallamused:

So, Manyshot it is, which brings us back to 3d8 + 3d6 + 7d6, averaging... 48.5
Sounds about right.

I wonder why the third arrow in the second volley missed though... there was no sneak attack that time, Tsukiko's should still be at a good 1/2 hp.

Just for variety's sake, I guess.

[Superglucose]

So that pretty much seals Tsukiko as a wizard/cleric then?

[AlterForm]

*Types some stuff in a new tab*

*Was beat to the punch. Darnit* :smallfrown:

*Keeps reading*

*Types some more stuff*

*Beat to the punch again. Argh!* :smallmad:

*Keeps reading*

*Thinks he'll finally be able to make a meaningful post by mentioning G. Manyshot*

*D'nied by the post 2 posts 3 posts above him* :smallfurious:

By Thor's Hammer! I can offer only this:

F*** YEAH

Oh, wait.

3d8 + 3d6 + 21d6 = Avg. 97.5 damage (avg. 10.5 of which is flaming)

She could've also used Rapid Shot + Improved Rapid shot!

*Contributed!*

BTW, I do in fact use "by thor's hammer" as an RL curse.

[SomethingElse]

So that pretty much seals Tsukiko as a wizard/cleric then?

Yes, which leads me to wish someone would stat her up - I have yet to see an effective multiclass divine/arcane spellcaster...

[jameslt0]

Hmm, they said it was the 4th round, so they already know each other well.

I'm suprised Tsukiko didn't go down. Haley has around +7d6 sneack attack damage.

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.

Yet, she cured everything with a measly cure critical wounds!!!!

And yeah, I agree that like Shykon she doesn't care about what she is shooting as long as it is flashy. C'mon, attacking a rogue with reflex or dies, for 4 combats?

Dont forget the Lay of Hands from the paladin she Dominated.

[SomethingElse]

Dont forget the Lay of Hands from the paladin she Dominated.
I seem to be confused - has he actually done any healing on her yet, or did she just tell him to?

[Duke Malagigi]

Can we please have a powerful female character who's actually known to be ugly? You know, for variety's sake.

There is the Baba Yaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Yaga) in Slavic myth. She was the former lover of Koschei the Deathless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei) before he became one of the undead. Is that good enough for you?

[SomethingElse]

There is the Baba Yaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Yaga) in Slavic myth. She was the former lover of Koschei the Deathless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei) before he became one of the undead. Is that good enough for you?
I'm not arguing that anyone is being sexist, however I would note for the purposes of debate that Baba Yaga is not an OotS character... that I'm aware of, anyway.

[H. Zee]

I love it when you have no idea what the comic strip title means, until you get to the last panel... Or, in this case, to the last panel and beyond. Love it.
:smallsmile:

[Duke Malagigi]

I'm not arguing that anyone is being sexist, however I would note for the purposes of debate that Baba Yaga is not an OotS character... that I'm aware of, anyway.

Well then, Alfryd should have said that he was only talking about the Order of the Stick.

[fractal]

I seem to be confused - has he actually done any healing on her yet, or did she just tell him to?
He healed her at the same time as she healed herself. It's a combined blue glow.

[Aerysil]

Stupid smart wizards that prepare new spells based on previous encounters with the PC's...

Oh well, Haley was barely hurt before, so she should have plenty of hit points left.

And I don't like Orb spells either.

[Animefunkmaster]

I liked this one a lot.

[Kyaragwo-kye]

I would expect Tsukiko to have some kind of defense up. After all, after three previous encounters, and then standing out in the open calling her out, I would find it supprising that a person who has the intelligence to cast wizard spells and the wisdom to cast cleric spells didn't expect to get sneak attacked.

This would also explain how she didn't get dropped by the attack.

However, as a speculation of what defenses she has, given Tsukiko's 'affinity' for undead, as well as that she is fighting a rogue and the presence of non-core and homebrewed spells, I wonder if she could have some kind of spell/feat that gives her the undead ability to be immune to sneak attacks? (are undead immune to sneak attacks?)

[banjo1985]

Nice, for once we see visible breakage of the 4th wall :smallbiggrin:

I'm just waiting to see where the hell Roy is...has some other spirit possessed his body while he's been away playing blocks?

[fractal]

However, as a speculation of what defenses she has, given Tsukiko's 'affinity' for undead, as well as that she is fighting a rogue and the presence of non-core and homebrewed spells, I wonder if she could have some kind of spell/feat that gives her the undead ability to be immune to sneak attacks? (are undead immune to sneak attacks?)
Undead are immune to sneak attacks, however, Tsukiko is not, or else she wouldn't need to "erase these sneak attacks".

[Dr. Simon]

So... rapid shot or manyshot?

Manyshot doesn't look like it has any advantage over rapidshot to me.

The essential difference is that Manyshot uses a Standard action whereas Rapid Shot uses a Full Round Action. So you can move your full move allowance with Manyshot, but only a '5 ft. step' with Rapid Shot.

My guess would be, in the strip, Rapid Shot for the first attack since Haley then gets Sneak Attack damage to all three arrows (essentially she is attack a flat-footed foe, it looks like to me).

Later on, since she is moving and firing, manyshot would make more sense. However, a three-arrow Manyshot has a greater attack penalty than Rapid Shot, hence the arrow that misses.

Although its more likely the Power of Plot!

[Kyaragwo-kye]

Undead are immune to sneak attacks, however, Tsukiko is not, or else she wouldn't need to "erase these sneak attacks".

Unless she was talking in the generic 'sneak attack as something attacks you by supprise' rather then the rule technical sense ... oh, given that she capitalises Sneak Attack, you are right.

[Idless]

I'm betting on Belkar.

He can't hurt the goth chick... she is living and within the city... they wight though, but then he can do none for Than...


...Idless

[Niknokitueu]

Brilliant comic, Rich, and the fact that we are already up to 4 pages of comments just goes to prove it...

I really enjoyed reading the comic. 'No mistress, it's "eight", not "aaargh"'! - perfectly fits the pace.

"Favoured enemy (Airborne Tramp)" - Heh heh.

Note on "Round 4" and "last fight" - it seems that Haley and Tsukiko have butted heads several times off-screen in the last few months.

Nice to see the re-emergence of 'intelligent evil', something overlooked too many times outside of OotS.

Hope that Haley wins and Tsukiko lives to fight another day - not a likely scenario given the last 'panel'

And the double meaning on the comic's title - just love it.

Keep it coming!!

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
ps. "The real trick will be getting a new strip up before Saturday, otherwise Tsukiko just blasted Haley into next week!" (Surfing HalfOrc) - sigged!

[Umbra]

So, what wall DID get broken, the 1st, the 2nd, or 3rd?

I think it's the 3rd.

[Doctor Zuber]

So that pretty much seals Tsukiko as a wizard/cleric then?

Tsukiko clearly told Xycon that she was a mystic theurge when she hired on. Google for it if you are unfamiliar with the class but the basics is that she has d4 hp per level and gains both mage and cleric spells.

As for the whole stoneskin thing I've been obsessing about I guess I'll just have to assume she does have the spell up and they simply didn't make a big deal out of it in the comic. It's pretty much a required spell to survive the kind of attacks haley can dish out. Lemme think (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 is going to average out to be about 97 damage, lose 30 since each arrow will max out the stoneskin for 10 damage. Yea, well survival of 3 sneak attacks is still wishful thinking, especially against a PC with some magic items and stats further tipping the balance on the numbers. But oh well.

I still think tsukiko is a tard though. She could easily be loading up on ray attacks, magic missiles, and other fun goodies to make life quite miserable for Haley. The Electric Orb was a rare moment of clarity for her though. =P

What do I care though? It makes a pretty cool story.

[Alfryd]

They "forgot or disregarded" it primarily because it's not true. You can get Sneak Attack damage for any attack during which the opponent is flat-footed. Haley won initiative and made a full attack, so she gets Sneak Attack damage for every arrow.

...7d6 (sneak attack damage, assuming she's 13th level). This amounts to around 50 points of damage on average...
3 x 9d6 = 27 x 3.5 = 95 damage or so. Even with stoneskin, you're looking at upwards of 60 damage. Unless she has very decent Con, Tsukiko really should be dead.

If the DM determined that every single act of obeying Tsukiko was against Thanh's nature, then the spell would be meaningless...
Okay, what does count as 'against his nature?' As far as I can tell, the effects are similar to Charm person, they just allow you to give orders which the subject does object to strongly, provided they fail their Will save. Again. And lasts indefinitely. And gives you sensory information.

EDIT: Aslo, there's no real evidence in the comic that Tsukiko is attractive anyway. People just assume it.

Probably not. Nowadays, even M*ry M*rv*l has the kind of curves you'd expect to find on a Las Vegas showgirl!
I blame Adam Hughes (http://www.justsayah.com/images/MaryMarvel2SK.jpg).

Well then, Alfryd should have said that he was only talking about the Order of the Stick.
I dunno. It just seems to be an endemic problem in modern fantasy/sci-fi/drama/comedy... Men can get away with it sometimes, but women? Very rarely. I mean, America Ferrara isn't even close to ugly.

The only character that we know for sure is 'hot' and definitely 'good-looking' and who causes large numbers of characters of the opposite sex to swoon is - Elan. (Thank you for that Giant. Thank you.)
No, not really. Haley, Miko, Julia and Sam have all been more-or-less confirmed as exceedingly easy on the eyes. At least, inasmuch as Elan has. (I mean, how else do you explain Miko's Cha?) Celia is probable, and Therkla is clearly quite smoking for a half-orc. I mean, you can barely see her fangs, and she has a dex bonus, and uses three-syllable words, and everything.


In what is an ultimate ironry, she's now doomed to float around the void forever, playing D&D with Gary Gygax, Al Gore and Fry.
That was probably the only futurama episode I found screamingly funny.

[Fabio_MP]

New comic is up.

Given that this is being posted during "business hours" in the US, I expect there to be some heavy server slowdown once the RSS feed goes out. The message board may have to come down for a few hours as a result.

Oh, and Erfworld is new, too.
thanks... nice showdown :)

[Dib]

I'm sorry, but-
YES!!!

[ref]

Round four, eh? For they're comments seems that Haley is now 3-1 vs Tsukiko...

Also, where will the missed arrow go? (dejá vu all over again)

[Soepvork]

Sigh... Evocations with an attack roll rather than a reflex save... What's wrong with the good old fashioned core-spell Scorching Ray rather than a spell that seems to refer to a Complete Arcane's conjuration spell.

[EntilZha]

Yes, which leads me to wish someone would stat her up - I have yet to see an effective multiclass divine/arcane spellcaster...

Being a game designer by trade, I'm sure Rich has some sort of wicked divine/arcane build in mind few, if any of us have thought of. :smallamused:

[Gamerlord]

perhaps rich burlew and that guy who made erfworld can make a crossover with haley being blasted into erfworld.

[MythicFox]

He can't hurt the goth chick... she is living and within the city...

Well, theoretically, depending on how the Mark of Justice works, it's possible he can hurt her once before the Mark kicks in. And a single well-timed shot can finish a battle.

(Spoiler'd so I don't have to worry about screwing up something Rich was going to do by mentioning it openly.)

[pendell]

Thank you, Giant.


Although , TBH, I'm bored with this battle. We all know it's too early in the arc to kill off Tsukiko, and there's no reason to kill off Haley. Because we need to have a moderately sympathetic protaganist within Azure City, and Belkar by himself doesn't fit the bill.

So I'm betting this will be an inconclusive battle, from which both Tsukiko and Haley escape. It'll just take up who knows how many strips of our time.

The only real question is what happens to Thanh (interesting ... Vietnamese name, when everyone else we've met in AC has a Japanese name). Unless dominate person can be broken, he will be left in the hands of the bad guys, which means he'll be a wight soon enough.



Respectfully,

Brian P.

[factotum]

Sigh... Evocations with an attack roll rather than a reflex save... What's wrong with the good old fashioned core-spell Scorching Ray rather than a spell that seems to refer to a Complete Arcane's conjuration spell.

Scorching Ray would max out at 12d6 damage (three rays, each doing 4d6), whereas this Orb thingy can apparently do more...and it has to do a lot of damage to blast Haley out of frame like that!

[PhallicWarrior]

I pop up this morning to see what's up, and I get a new OotS!
Thanks Giant!

[sihnfahl]

Tsukiko clearly told Xycon that she was a mystic theurge when she hired on. Google for it if you are unfamiliar with the class but the basics is that she has d4 hp per level and gains both mage and cleric spells.
Actually, it's a prestige class. The character in question must already be capable of casting level 2 arcane and divine spells - so, minimum Wiz 3, Cleric 3. From the spells Tsukiko has cast, if she went MT at Wiz 3, Cleric 3, she's MT 6, minimum - which puts (thanks to her class feature) her at Caster Level 9 for purposes of Arcane and Divine spells.

[Uriel Valentine]

Oh god.
My gut reaction was "No! O.O", but it doesn't look like Haley's too hurt outside of the panel.
We live in hope.
Personally I think she's gonna have to make a choice: let Thanh die and kill Tsukiko, or not?
Now I'm no DnD'er, so I don't know the specifics of this, but could Tsukiko resurrect Roy? If so, why can't Haley capture her and force her to do the deed? There are other ways of making someone do what you want than Dominate Person, I'm sure. Especially if she could capture the wight as well. (Belkar Critical-Hit Pineapple Knockout?)

[honkuimushi]

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.



The Many Shot issue has already been brought up, but why is everyone using 1d8 for base weapon damage? The longbow is 1d8, but it's a martial weapon not granted to rogues. Unless Haley has taken a level of Fighter or Ranger already or taken Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow feat or a Exotic Weapon feat for one of the Longbow- like exotics, she's probably using a short bow, which is 1d6. The bow she's using looks too small to be a longbow, so I'd assume that she's using a shortbow. It's not a big change in the damage calculations (maybe 4 damage) but lets try to be accurate.

[sihnfahl]

Now I'm no DnD'er, so I don't know the specifics of this, but could Tsukiko resurrect Roy?
Afraid not. Tsukiko seems to be no more powerful than a MT 6, maybe a 7; we've seen her cast a 5th level cleric spell (Flamestrike), but no 6th level cleric spells, putting her at CL 9 or 10 for clerical purposes. The only spell Tsukiko could cast is Raise Dead, but thanks to the several months that have passed, the time limit on that spell (a week for Tsukiko) has expired.
Resurrect is Cleric 7 - Tsukiko would have to hit Mystic Theurge 10 to cast that, provided she went MT at Cleric 3.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Afraid not. Tsukiko seems to be no more powerful than a MT 6, maybe a 7; we've seen her cast a 5th level cleric spell (Flamestrike), but no 6th level cleric spells, putting her at CL 9 or 10 for clerical purposes. The only spell Tsukiko could cast is Raise Dead, but thanks to the several months that have passed, the time limit on that spell (a week for Tsukiko) has expired.
Resurrect is Cleric 7 - Tsukiko would have to hit Mystic Theurge 10 to cast that, provided she went MT at Cleric 3.

What if Team EVIL captured Roy's body early on, and Tsukiko cast "Gentle Repose" on it until she levels? That spell seems like something she might keep in her spell book. She might have started her career in the funeral services business.

Maybe Haley is trying to retrieve both Roy and O-Chul's bodies to be rezzed by one of the Resistance's clerics.

[Deuce]

The Many Shot issue has already been brought up, but why is everyone using 1d8 for base weapon damage? The longbow is 1d8, but it's a martial weapon not granted to rogues. Unless Haley has taken a level of Fighter or Ranger already or taken Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow feat or a Exotic Weapon feat for one of the Longbow- like exotics, she's probably using a short bow, which is 1d6. The bow she's using looks too small to be a longbow, so I'd assume that she's using a shortbow. It's not a big change in the damage calculations (maybe 4 damage) but lets try to be accurate.

In comic 454 (The Longshot) she notes that Redcloak is not outside her Longbow range. So, yes, she seems to have spent a feat for it.

[sihnfahl]

What if Team EVIL captured Roy's body early on, and Tsukiko cast "Gentle Repose" on it until she levels? That spell seems like something she might keep in her spell book. She might have started her career in the funeral services business.
Redcloak's a high enough level - he could res Roy if Xykon asked.

Xykon, though, would probably take one look at Roy, go 'meh', and have Redcloak cast Create Greater Undead.


Maybe Haley is trying to retrieve both Roy and O-Chul's bodies to be rezzed by one of the Resistance's clerics.
As far as we know, though, O-chul isn't dead - just probably wishes he was after several months of being a plaything for MITD.

[AlterForm]

Found it.
Summary:

Electric Orb

Evocation [Electricity]
Sor/Wiz 4
Source: Tome and Blood, p 87
Maxes at 15d6 electrical, fort 1/2, slowed for 1 round on failed save

Now, based on what I can find (seeing as I don't own that particular book), EO has a range of close (25+5ft/2 levels?), so Tsukiko made a ranged touch attack against Haley. Since Rich has apparently said Haley has a +5 DEX mod, we're looking at AC 15 vs touch attacks if she has nothing else, maybe a little higher if she has a ring of protection.

If we assume Tsukiko is a Wiz3/Cleric3/MT4(or 6) she has a BAB of 5 or 6, add a DEX mod of +2 (not unreasonable) and she's rolling against AC 15 with a +7ish mod. Odds do favor Tsukiko. :smallfrown:

Now, if Haley had cheesed out of core herself and bought Gnome Twist Cloth, as well as its corresponding exotic prof feat, she could've added her armor AC (not incredible with GTC, tbh) and gained maybe 3 or 4 more points, depending on her enchantment level. Adding a ring of protection +2, and dodge, and she hits, say, AC 21 or 22 vs touch attacks. Odds stop favoring Tsukiko (not surprisingly). Please note that this did not happen. It simply could have, if Haley had thought to "cheat" first. :smalltongue:

[SteveMB]

Redcloak's a high enough level - he could res Roy if Xykon asked.
I thought the deceased knew who was trying to rez them, and could refuse to return if they didn't like the answer.

[sihnfahl]

I thought the deceased knew who was trying to rez them, and could refuse to return if they didn't like the answer.
Yup. Which is a double strike against that little theory of 'Team Evil Ressing Roy' - he wouldn't take the res.

I'm a fan of the 'undead Roy if Roy's body is in Team Evil's hands' theory.

[Sledge_bro]

This is gonna be a bitch to put in the compilation book

A bleeding woman falls out of the book onto your lap :smalleek:

[dragongirl13]

Electric orb... there's no electric orb spell in the Spell Compendium or Complete Arcane. The closest you get is Ball Lightning(Evocation [Electricity] level 5) or Orb of Electricity(Conjuration [Creation {Electricity}] level 4 [or level 1 for the Lesser version]). Seeing as Tsukiko has cast spells of higher levels than 5, she could have cast any of them.

I'll let it slide. Tsukiko has her quirks (and a great many of them), and if saying the wrong spell names and/or schools is one of them then that's perfectly ok.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Yup. Which is a double strike against that little theory of 'Team Evil Ressing Roy' - he wouldn't take the res.

I'm a fan of the 'undead Roy if Roy's body is in Team Evil's hands' theory.

Could Team Evil do anything with Roy's body besides Resurrect? What about Animate Dead? Can you "fix" a zombie back to normal?

SoD Spoiler
In fact, that might be Redcloak's chance for redemption. He killed his brother Right Eye, then animated him as a zombie. If he could take it back, and put Right Eye back together, they might be able to stop the Emperor, er, Xykon.

Roy was saying being dead and not knowing where your body is, is like someone finding your wallet... All you can do is hope that person doesn't do anything too bad with it.

[Ulicus]

I've not posted here for an age (though I have been keeping up with OotS, obviously).

However, that last panel was the very definition of awesome and was not allowed to go uncommented on. Excellent stuff Mr Burlew :)

[sihnfahl]

Could Team Evil do anything with Roy's body besides Resurrect? What about Animate Dead? Can you "fix" a zombie back to normal?
Yes; once a body has been used to create an undead creature, you have to destroy the undead creature before the person can be resurrected.

[Corvec]

Tome of Blood is a third edition book. Electric Orb was effectively "errata'ed" to 3.5e in Complete Arcane with Orb of Electricity. There are SEVERAL differences:
School: conjuration
Ignores SR
Doesn't allow a save for half damage
Entangle if wearing metal armor / magnetism -> straight entangling (still a fortitude save to negate and still for only one round)
No effect if it misses (this one does 2*level damage in a 10 foot burst)
Only one orb, as opposed to choosing how many orbs you get




Found it.
Summary:

Electric Orb

Evocation [Electricity]
Sor/Wiz 4
Source: Tome and Blood, p 87
Maxes at 15d6 electrical, fort 1/2, slowed for 1 round on failed save

[AlterForm]

Wait, so Tsukiko isn't just "cheating" out of core, she's "cheating" out of edition? The fiend!

[Corvec]

Wait, so Tsukiko isn't just "cheating" out of core, she's "cheating" out of edition? The fiend!

If we accept that she's using Electric Orb instead of Orb of Electricity, yes. Orb of Electricity is more powerful against a single opponent in several ways, though. Electric orb is only better against a small number of opponents (but more than one) with negligible SR, low fort saves and high reflex saves (because otherwise you'd use fireball). Against one person it's only useful if they have a low fort save AND are wearing metal armor AND are surrounded by metal walls (because then they can't move at all, apparently).

EDIT: I forgot to say that if she were using Electric Orb, in this case it would be a bad idea, not a good one. Haley would get a Fortitude save for half damage and if she had SR (she doesn't, most likely) then it could negate the spell.

[Abjurer]

Haha! Rich Burlew, you the man. That's bloody brilliant.

This is where d6 hit dice start to become a problem. My only problem with it is that Tsukiko is a sorcerer/cleric/mystic theurge, or something similar. This means that she has a couple levels of 75% BAB progression and a lot of 50% progression. So I don't see how she's able to hit Haley with a ranged touch, when we know Haley has wicked Dex...

EDIT:
...then again, Tsukiko probably has a couple levels on her, so that always helps the BAB, bad progression or not.

[vrellum]

Just because she has Manyshot doesn't mean she used it. It would be a bad choice to do so, for just that reason.

Not as bad as not doing anything during the surprise round. Manyshot allows her to shoot multiple arrows as a standard action and that appears to be what she did. It also appears she doesn't have improved manyshot because the necromancer is not dead.

[David Argall]

A relatively minor point. Haley mentions the age 17, which appears to be the end of her goth period. But it also suggests Tsukiko isn't much older than 17 and may be younger.

[FujinAkari]

Not as bad as not doing anything during the surprise round. Manyshot allows her to shoot multiple arrows as a standard action and that appears to be what she did. It also appears she doesn't have improved manyshot because the necromancer is not dead.

There wasn't a surprise round. Tsukiko -knew- Haley was in the area, so there would be no reason for her to be surprised.

[SomethingElse]

A relatively minor point. Haley mentions the age 17, which appears to be the end of her goth period. But it also suggests Tsukiko isn't much older than 17 and may be younger.

I don't think so. Part of what Haley is berating Tsukiko for is immaturity for her age.

[Epinephrine]

There wasn't a surprise round. Tsukiko -knew- Haley was in the area, so there would be no reason for her to be surprised.

Agreed, it was a full attack against a flatfooted Tsukiko, and apparently Haley rolled *really* low damage (since Tsukiko is still alive). Tsukiko even refers to the "sneak attacks" in the plural, hint that all three are in fact sneak attacks. Haley really flubbed her damage rolls or something.

Oh, and for the compilation book, maybe the next comic will be indented a bit at the bottom left to make room for Haley flying across the page?

[Corvec]

Agreed, it was a full attack against a flatfooted Tsukiko, and apparently Haley rolled *really* low damage (since Tsukiko is still alive). Tsukiko even refers to the "sneak attacks" in the plural, hint that all three are in fact sneak attacks. Haley really flubbed her damage rolls or something.

Oh, and for the compilation book, maybe the next comic will be indented a bit at the bottom left to make room for Haley flying across the page?

For a while I thought that one could only make a single attack per round with a bow. I think I must've been thinking of the crossbow (due to it taking a move-equivalent action to load one).

Rolling low on the sneak attack damage OR Tsukiko having cast stoneskin OR manyshot OR temporary hit points OR Tsukiko being a higher level could all explain Tsukiko's managing to survive the triple-sneak-attack onslaught.

Personally, I think that the comic will show up on the left page. There'll still be a comic on the right, but it'll be lacking the bottom row - which will have Haley on it. That way, you won't notice Haley until you read that far.

[otakuryoga]

starts out awesome.."no, mistress its eight, not aaargh" :smallcool:

finishes outstandingly with the surprise spell selection and results :smallbiggrin:

i shall renew my cry....WE NEED A TSUKIKO SMILEY!!!!!!

[SteveDJ]

Hmm, they said it was the 4th round, so they already know each other well.

I'm suprised Tsukiko didn't go down. Haley has around +7d6 sneack attack damage.

So we have (1d8+1d6+7d6)x3 in the first panel. We're talking something around 27d6 worth of damage.

Yet, she cured everything with a measly cure critical wounds!!!!

And yeah, I agree that like Shykon she doesn't care about what she is shooting as long as it is flashy. C'mon, attacking a rogue with reflex or dies, for 4 combats?

No, she DIDN'T cure everything, and not even with the paladin's help (we can see him touching her in frame 3), either. In frame 4 she says "There, good as new, almost".

[Brady]

I bet Tsukiko has had true strike on her spell list ever since she started plotting revenge for Redcloak's blade barrier on her first day on the job (#457 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html)). Wouldn't surprise me if she used it to zap Haley.

[David Argall]

SoD Spoiler
In fact, that might be Redcloak's chance for redemption. He killed his brother Right Eye, then animated him as a zombie. If he could take it back, and put Right Eye back together, they might be able to stop the Emperor, er, Xykon.


No such chance.
As we see in the strip, no zombies came South with Xykon and Redcloak, so the ability to find Right Eye's body is about zero.
As we read in SoD, there is zero chance that Redcloak is going to betray Xykon [except in the sense he has already done so, but that still means absolute loyalty until Xykon & Redcloak control a gate and put into use.]
As to raising his brother, SoD has Xykon pointing out "You REALLY don't have the balls for that."
Redcloak is a loyal slave. Live with that.

[HUMVEE Driver]

So doesn't this mean that Thanh has fallen? Dominated or not, he helped an evil do-er.

I wonder if he gets the same hole-in-the-sky-opening-to-show-the-god's-displeasure that Miko did.

HUMVEE Driver

[CheezItMan]

You only get 1 sneak attack damage a round, so that is only 3(1d8+1d6)+7d6 = about 50 damage, and Tsukiko has about 3(d6)+10d4 +13con bonus, which can put her in the 60's.


Actually you get 1 sneak attack each time an opponent is flat footed so you can get as many sneak attacks in a round as you get attacks. It gives a reason for Rogues to get cleave.

Oh and Tsukiko could also have protection from arrows on or stoneskin so that would lesson Haley's damage. Or she could have a kick but Con (she is part cleric too).

[EvilElitest]

When did Haley and that girl fight three other times? Was it in the three missing months? I hope we see those eventually
from
EE

[Goats_o_Mjolnir]

Yeah I believe so and agreed, Im guessing thats Rich's next project

[David Argall]

When did Haley and that girl fight three other times? Was it in the three missing months? I hope we see those eventually


Durn little chance. If you check with the Elan/Durkon strips, you will find mention of a half-dozen fights that took place off stage. So the ladies will likely not get further fight histories.
unless we get a strip like Tsukiko standing over a battered Haley, and she starts gloating about how Haley escaped before and we get a picture or two of each escape, following which she announces there is absolutely no way Haley can escape this time... at which point Belkar gooses her. [well, it is nonlethal damage]

[DrivinAllNight]

You know what I was thinking, I was thinking that it was the fact that V had already made up spells outside of the books as well as the one Xykon used against Miko that led to Tsukiko having the ability to come up with something off the cuff.

[factotum]

The D&D rules are perfectly happy for wizards and sorcerers to research their own spells, which is what Xykon and V did. Tsukiko just looked hers up in a non-core sourcebook--the spell isn't something she created herself.

[hajo]

When did Haley and that girl fight three other times? Was it in the three missing months?

Those must have happened between the fall of Azure City at #484 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html), when Haley and Tsukiko have not yet met each other, and #513 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html), when we see Haley again after Roy's Dad starts scrying at #510.

So yes, we missed some action, but most probably these encounters were indecisive.

[Jayngfet]

you see, THIS is why no self respecting DM would let a player create an angsty dark character in a World of man eating demons and evil blasting books, you better have a damn good reason for being "dark".

on a lighter note, awesome comic.

[pjackson]

So doesn't this mean that Thanh has fallen?


No.
He did not do it willingly - he was forced to by magic.

[pjackson]

I would expect Tsukiko to have some kind of defense up.

I would guess at least Stoneskin and Bear's Endurance.

[Ikialev]

Poor frame...

[Dartonus]

Hmm... Tsukiko versus a literal flesh and blood demon. now that's something I'd like to see.:smallamused:

[vrellum]

There wasn't a surprise round. Tsukiko -knew- Haley was in the area, so there would be no reason for her to be surprised.

You're right. And she did multiple sneak attacks, so she must have used a full attack. I'm somewhat surprised Tsukiko didn't drop from the attack. Though stoneskin + bears endurance + a decent starting con would mean that she would probably survive.

[sumoalex]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isred.jpgTake the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp):smallbiggrin: i made a comic that is really boring.:smallwink: :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smallannoyed: :smallsmile: :smallamused: :smallsigh: :smallredface: :smallmad: :smallfurious: :smallfrown: :smalleek: :smallcool: :smallyuk: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[Edanor]

How did you manage to pull that one off? You're not supposed to be able to post nothing...

[Traker]

can we get back to the oots cus we want to discuss oots don't we

[Brother George]

Well, technically, Tsukiko didn't use Orb of Electricity (which is Conjuration). She used another spells called Electric Orb, which could very well be evocation. Rich is good at avoiding any copyright issues :smallamused:

You're right. "Electric Orb" is a 3.0 evocation spell from the Tome and Blood book. Orb of Electricity is basically the same spell, but they changed it to conjuration for some reason.

(If someone else already pointed this out, I apologize. I haven't read through the entire thread yet.)

[Brother George]

Poor Haley...
And could someone tell me where I could find Electric Orb or post the info for it? I'm playing a wizard right now.

3.0 rules--Tome and Blood

[DemonicAngel]

first thing first, nice being here and all, I'm new.
DA, nice too meet.

anyway, anyone care to remind who is Samantha? I seem to have forgotten all about her.

[factotum]

Samantha was the sorceress leader of the bandits they met back in the Wooden Forest arc...Haley fought her (and lost) in strip #160.

[David Argall]

The D&D rules are perfectly happy for wizards and sorcerers to research their own spells, which is what Xykon and V did. Tsukiko just looked hers up in a non-core sourcebook--the spell isn't something she created herself.

Sorcerers are able to research their own spells, but they can only know a grand total of 3-5 spells of a given level [ignoring feats, etc] and they don't normally get to change these spells. They merely add more when they reach the proper level, which means that a sorcerer Tsukiko has very little chance of adding a new spell when she needs it. Facing a high level rogue with evasion and having little but dex save spells, she would be pretty harmless. And she has little way to get new weapons.
The wizard learns spells at any time [for a price in time and coin] and faces no limit on the number of spells in the spellbook[s]. The DM is supposed to make difficulties for the wiz to overcome in adding spells, but our wizard Tsukiko can have scores of spells of each level in her spellbooks, and having found Haley laughs at dex saves, can study those with fort or will save, or learn a new one in time for the next fight.

So Tsukiko's reference to getting a new spell pretty much confirms the obvious, that she is the standard Cleric-3/Wiz-3/MT-?.

[Kami2awa]

Was anyone else thinking....

HADOKEN!!!!

[*Templar*]

I must say that personality-wise, Tsukiko seems more like a sorcerer than a wizard, at least in my opinion. She doesn't really seem like the type to spend untold hours carefully studying arcana. But the evidence does seem to indicate she's a Wizard, at least based on what my non-D&D-playing self has understood from the discussion.

[Flying Platypus]

I think Haley should learn to fly. It would make sneak attacking easier and cooler :smallcool:
They could also use a whole page of haley being blown away for the book!:smallbiggrin:

[Doctor Zuber]

Durn little chance. If you check with the Elan/Durkon strips, you will find mention of a half-dozen fights that took place off stage. So the ladies will likely not get further fight histories.
unless we get a strip like Tsukiko standing over a battered Haley, and she starts gloating about how Haley escaped before and we get a picture or two of each escape, following which she announces there is absolutely no way Haley can escape this time... at which point Belkar gooses her. [well, it is nonlethal damage]

Humm, while you do have a point that we are unlikely to see these missed off-screen battles between Haley and Tsukiko in the main strip.

However, if you look at what books he has already sold of other OOTS stories that fit in the cracks, a book of Haley's adventures after the fall of Azure city would be very much in line with other products that have been made in the past. A book dedicated primarily to Haley would be cool.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Yikes! I sure hope Haley is ok. She didn't look that bad, but after going through that wall, she might have some serious injuries. Maybe Belkar can help her.

I'm really liking this resistance storyline. I hope the others stick around for a while.

[Milandros]

Well, the next panel can easily change everything, but if you look at the last panel of the current comic, which of the two seems battered and which seems unharmed, if knocked back right now?

Potion speculation: Protection from Electricity?

[FujinAkari]

Potion speculation: Protection from Electricity?

Doubtful... this was a spell Tsukiko had never used before, so it is very unfeasible that Haley had prepared for it.

[Fluff]

So, what wall DID get broken, the 1st, the 2nd, or 3rd?

The second of course. The one on the left was the first, the top was the ceiling, and the bottom was the floor.

Simple.

[Deme]

Well, it's official: she knocked Haley into next week(welll, it's now this week, but you know what I mean). dang weekend cliffhangers...*grumbles*


Great work, Giant!

[otakuryoga]

The second of course. The one on the left was the first, the top was the ceiling, and the bottom was the floor.

Simple.

actually it would be the 3rd wall....number clockwise from left makes that #1, the back wall #2 and teh right wall #3...leaving the 4th wall(towards us) there but not really

why would you start with #1 on left and then skip across the room to make that #2?

[Groundhog]

*sighs* I realize that it would probably be kind of like Godmoding for Haley to just get away without a scratch, but can't the good side have an absolute victory already? It's been a long time.

[wagomorph]

Perhaps Tsukiko will lose sight of Haley. Won't this grant her new sneak attacks?

[wagomorph]

Perhaps Tsukiko will lose sight of Haley. Won't this grant her new sneak attacks?

[Fluff]

actually it would be the 3rd wall....number clockwise from left makes that #1, the back wall #2 and teh right wall #3...leaving the 4th wall(towards us) there but not really

why would you start with #1 on left and then skip across the room to make that #2?

I'm pretty sure the background isn't the third wall in webcomics. It's the portal to infinty, internet hell where everything and nothing exist and don't exist (not always respectivly) simultaniosly. In thearter, it would have been the 3rd wall, in webcomics, it's the portal to...Thing.

EDIT: Worst. Lag. EVER! :smallredface:

[factotum]

And what you tell us three times must be true? :smallamused:

[ExarKun]

Hi! i'm new, the fourth wall, in comics (and in theater) is the "wall" between the reality and the fiction, it's broken when a character speaks to the readers...
if you read marvel's comics Deadpool is an example...

wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall

i think this is the 4th wall mentioned by the giant :smallbiggrin: :smallsmile:

[snafu]

Was anyone else thinking....

HADOKEN!!!!

No, Hadouken is a distance attack. If you're as close as Tsukiko is here you'd use the Shouryuuken.

This attack is more like Chidori. Appropriate from someone who willingly went and applied for a position on the Evil side, and who's been spraying fire attacks around the place.

Shame Haley's not a magic-user. I'm thinking, oh, Mirror Image then Orb of Force would be a fitting response to this? Kagebunshin no jutsu! Rasengan!

[DragonTounge]

Is it possible Haley got blasted into another universe? And could she have died. Ouch!

[Covenantwgw]

No, Hadouken is a distance attack. If you're as close as Tsukiko is here you'd use the Shouryuuken.

This attack is more like Chidori. Appropriate from someone who willingly went and applied for a position on the Evil side, and who's been spraying fire attacks around the place.

Shame Haley's not a magic-user. I'm thinking, oh, Mirror Image then Orb of Force would be a fitting response to this? Kagebunshin no jutsu! Rasengan!

I think that's an 8 bit theatre joke, not a street fighter joke....in which case it's pretty much whenever blackmage feels like it.

Of course I have been wrong once or twice before...so who knows. :smallwink:

[RebelRogue]

So doesn't this mean that Thanh has fallen? Dominated or not, he helped an evil do-er.
Since he's magically compelled he will not lose paladinhood permanently, no matter what he does (although he could be in danger of temporarily losing these powers). Also, I don't think he's performed any evil deeds as such so far, but if he should do so an Atonement spell will be needed. True, the paladin code requires you not to associate with evil people, but doing so will not make you fall in itself. Also, healing an evil character is not a violation of the paladin code as such, but we'll see how things progress from here...

[HUMVEE Driver]

I guess its kind of a grey area, exactly where OOTS draws the 'falling' line. Yeah, healing an evil character is not a violation of the paladin code, but the circumstances there are pretty shady. He healed an evil character so said evil character could try to kill a good character. He's essentially helping someone evil hurt someone good. Aiding and abetting? But I don't think Thanh is viewed as important enough to get the same falling drama that Miko got, so its my guess that his actions will be conveniently overlooked and he'll be ok. But for doing what he did, his Paladin butt should be fallen.

[see]

My bet is that Tsukiko isn't just a wizard; she's a necromancy specialist. While obsessing over books in general might not fit, obsessing over necromancy fits right in.

[Superglucose]

Wait... there could've been a surprise round. Lets say a party enters a room and they know a kobold is probably in it, but the room is full of boxes. Let's say the kobold pops out of a box behind the party and attacks. Why is the kobold not privy to a surprise round? I'd say that's pretty damn surprising.

But be that as it may, the fact that she took eight shots should tell us how long the combat ran. Two rounds, right? I'm a little rusty on DnD.

[FujinAkari]

Wait... there could've been a surprise round. Lets say a party enters a room and they know a kobold is probably in it, but the room is full of boxes. Let's say the kobold pops out of a box behind the party and attacks. Why is the kobold not privy to a surprise round? I'd say that's pretty damn surprising.

If you know the kobald is in the room and hostile, and the kobald attacks you, that isn't in any way surprising.

What happened here is that Tsukiko had a readied action to heal herself as soon as Haley attacked. She -knew- combat was likely, but didn't know where Haley was. However, a surprise round would have only occured if Tsukiko had been completely unaware of Haley's hostile intent.

[Superglucose]

If you know the kobald is in the room and hostile, and the kobald attacks you, that isn't in any way surprising.

What happened here is that Tsukiko had a readied action to heal herself as soon as Haley attacked. She -knew- combat was likely, but didn't know where Haley was. However, a surprise round would have only occured if Tsukiko had been completely unaware of Haley's hostile intent.

Really? It seems to me that a surprise round is indicative of an ambush. Haley definitley ambushed Tsukiko. You can know that someone's planning an ambush and still be surprised by the ambush if it comes in an unexpected fashion.

As a DM I think I'd give Haley a surprise round if she managed to do something like sneak behind Tsukiko and hit her from behind, but not if she just walked out and shot her.

[FujinAkari]

Really? It seems to me that a surprise round is indicative of an ambush. Haley definitley ambushed Tsukiko. You can know that someone's planning an ambush and still be surprised by the ambush if it comes in an unexpected fashion.

As a DM I think I'd give Haley a surprise round if she managed to do something like sneak behind Tsukiko and hit her from behind, but not if she just walked out and shot her.

You seem to be confusing being flatfooted with a surprise round. A surprise round means that an attack came which was so utterly unexpected that the victim isn't even able to respond to it for the entirety of a round. They just sit there in stunned confusion wondering what the hell happened until the second round of combat occurs.

Tsukiko was in no way surprised by Haley's attack. She wasn't able to do anything but wait for it, since she didn't know where Haley was, and that is why Haley was able to catch her flatfooted, but I would absolutely never rule that Tsukiko spent a whole round standing around in shock because Haley attacked her, when she absolutely knew that attack was coming.

Also, the official rule on Surprise Rounds:


If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Note it says "If [you] are aware of [your] opponent," not "If you know your opponent's exact location." Tsukiko knew Haley was in the area, and knew to expect attack.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

It's Monday, so Tsukiko has officially knocked Haley into next week!

[T-Ice]

Am I missing something here? Is "kicked into next week" some sort of english (or US) idiom for getting beat up really bad? If so, what's the story? I didn't find anything with it on Google or Wikipedia.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Am I missing something here? Is "kicked into next week" some sort of english (or US) idiom for getting beat up really bad? If so, what's the story? I didn't find anything with it on Google or Wikipedia.

Yes. I don't know exactly where it comes from, but "I'll knock you into next week," is an old expression.

[Bavarian itP]

See also:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

:redcloak: I will rebuke you into next week

[David Argall]

Am I missing something here? Is "kicked into next week" some sort of english (or US) idiom for getting beat up really bad? If so, what's the story? I didn't find anything with it on Google or Wikipedia.

The fuller version is "knocked into the middle of next week".

It comes from boxing and brawling where the loser is often knocked out. So a real complete thrashing would presumably knock you out longer, and one that knocked you out for a week would be quite a beating.

[Kyaragwo-kye]

And it is already Tuesday night down under. The middle of the week is coming up fast. Poor Haley!

I do feel Team Good is due for a win, after all the disasters they have been having they deserve it. But I am glad that the force sent in to an adventurer level fight isn't a push over either.

I don't know if Belkar would risk the MoJ to save Haley, but ... I wonder how Tsukiko would react if he threatened her wights?