familiars as mounts, a few questions to the peanut gallery

[mabriss lethe]

Ok, here's the situation.

I'm working on a small character (hexblade, goblinoid homebrew, using halfling for a basis)who'll have a Worg as an improved familiar, then use the worg as a mount in battle.

Should the worg familiar's improved evasion function for the rider as well? It would make sense, but you know, sense and DnD don't often go hand in hand.

So, seeing as a fully armed and armored small humanoid doesn't come close to maxing out the "light load" for a quadruped with a 17 strength, not even coupled with light barding for the worg....( I know the SRD makes no mention of encumberance for evasion, but this is just here for a reference.)

Also, how would you handle feats like Combat familiar and Lurking familiar from the PHBII in a mounted situation? (I can't remember anything specific about either feat and don't own phbII, but I don't think there were any restrictions on what sort of familiar you had). I don't think allowing them would make a whole lot of sense, but see my earlier comment about sense and DnD.

Would you just let the situations go as is? Disallow them entirely? Require a ride check? Something else?

thoughts?

[CASTLEMIKE]

IMO yes the rider should gain the benefit because the Worg is not maxed out on his load.

[marjan]

The rider should get the benefit of the Improved Evasion(I don't know of any rules that support or disallow this), but in that case you roll reflex save just for the mount. It can be reasoned the other way though.

And as far as I know you lose evasion if you carry more than medium load or heavier than light armor.

Combat familiar will have no impact on this familiar since it only benefits tiny or smaller ones.

Lurking Familiar I think lets your familiar hide in your square which in this case wouldn't be possible.

[mabriss lethe]

The rider should get the benefit of the Improved Evasion(I don't know of any rules that support or disallow this), but in that case you roll reflex save just for the mount. It can be reasoned the other way though.

And as far as I know you lose evasion if you carry more than medium load or heavier than light armor.

Combat familiar will have no impact on this familiar since it only benefits tiny or smaller ones.

Lurking Familiar I think lets your familiar hide in your square which in this case wouldn't be possible.

Thanks, all I have about the two feats were some hastily scribbled notes. I didn't honestly think they'd be applicable, but you never know. Well, I think combat familiar is a prereq for Lurking F, so it wouldn't work just from a game mechanic POV.

[marjan]

Bonded Familiar is best idea I know of if you are looking for familiar feats.

[Kizara]

Find me a rule where it says you gain ANY familiar your familiar has, regardless of circumstance, unless you have some feat or PrC class ability that says otherwise.

Doesn't matter how you reason it, you don't, RAW, gain it's Improved Evasion any more then you gain its Spell Resistance.

[marjan]

Find me a rule where it says you gain ANY familiar your familiar has, regardless of circumstance, unless you have some feat or PrC class ability that says otherwise.

Doesn't matter how you reason it, you don't, RAW, gain it's Improved Evasion any more then you gain its Spell Resistance.

If it was a RAW question it would be in Simple Q&A (By RAW). And as I said:


I don't know of any rules that support or disallow this.

[Talic]

Improved evasion is an ability of inches and millimeters. That animal knows enough to dodge most anything... But what if it ducks, and the blade (barrier) aimed right for its head is now aimed at yours?

No, Improved Evasion doesn't transfer. If the worg was denied his dex modifier, it could possibly be ruled that it would lose it also.

[marjan]

Improved evasion is an ability of inches and millimeters. That animal knows enough to dodge most anything... But what if it ducks, and the blade (barrier) aimed right for its head is now aimed at yours?

This is completely valid point. Though I don't remember if the thing about inches was in its description.


No, Improved Evasion doesn't transfer. If the worg was denied his dex modifier, it could possibly be ruled that it would lose it also.

Flat-footedness should also disallow reflex save, but it doesn't, but I see your point.

[nerulean]

As a grumpy DM, my general first response to any question like this is that you should never gain a mechanical advantage for a purely logistical reason. That is, just because you are now sitting on your familiar instead of keeping it in your pocket, you have not suddenly absorbed its improved evasion.

My common sense explanation would mirror Talic's. Think about a fireball: the reasoning for being able to avoid the spell at all using evasion is that it isn't a solid ball of flame but is hotter in some places and cooler in others. The worg is perfectly adept at keeping its own body within the confines of those cool spots, but it's an instinct, an in-built thing developed through being in dangerous situations. Instinct doesn't extend to things outside your body, even if you are mentally linked to them, because you just don't have the same physical awareness of that other thing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Note that a paladin's special mount has Improved Evasion. No mention is made of this protecting the paladin.

[mabriss lethe]

Note that a paladin's special mount has Improved Evasion. No mention is made of this protecting the paladin.

Good point.