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Vulgosh
2008-01-04, 01:43 PM
I found that adding beliefs to a PC or NPC really messes with the alignment system. (example: a person believes what he is doing is good but is considered evil by the standards, so what would he be?)

SurlySeraph
2008-01-04, 01:49 PM
Depends. Usually he's Neutral.

If he has absolutely good intent and has carefully considered the impact of what he's doing "for the Greater Good," then he's good.

If he kills everyone with a birthmark because some people with birthmarks are witches, he's evil.

Ne0
2008-01-04, 01:50 PM
I found that adding beliefs to a PC or NPC really messes with the alignment system. (example: a person believes what he is doing is good but is considered evil by the standards, so what would he be?)

I tend to believe that a person who thinks he's doing good - but not the Miko kind: he has to at least think about it when someone tells him he's not good -, can be considered good.

Telonius
2008-01-04, 01:52 PM
Game mechanics are generally based on actions rather than motivations. For example, using magic with the [evil] descriptor is always an Evil act by RAW. Casting Eyebite is evil, regardless of whether Nancy the Nice Necromancer really believes she's doing the right thing. You're free to houserule it otherwise, of course.

AKA_Bait
2008-01-04, 01:53 PM
I found that adding beliefs to a PC or NPC really messes with the alignment system. (example: a person believes what he is doing is good but is considered evil by the standards, so what would he be?)

Considered evil by which standards? The standards of the games alignment system? If so, he's evil. Intentional acts define your alignment in D&D. Slaughtering puppies because you think slaughtering puppies will please your deity and is therefore good is still an evil act.

Altair_the_Vexed
2008-01-04, 01:56 PM
I found that adding beliefs to a PC or NPC really messes with the alignment system. (example: a person believes what he is doing is good but is considered evil by the standards, so what would he be?)

Not really. The actions of a person are probably the determining factor in their alignment. What they're thinking when they do those things isn't necessarily going to make them Good or Evil or Chaotic of Lawful.

If you think that killing the helpless innocents of your (non-evil) enemy is a Good thing to do (maybe you rationalise that you are making sure they are unable to do evil in future), it's still Evil.

Let's say for example, that Darth Sidious, the Emperor, really believes that his destruction of the Jedi is the only way to true peace and order in the Galaxy. Is he really doing a Good thing to kill innocent children and betray the trust of thousands of Peace Keepers and plunge the Galaxy into decades of totalitarian rule?
No, it's Evil. He might think it's the right thing to do, and he might believe that he can achieve a Good end, but he's doing Evil acts to get there.

Now if a character kills an innocent, believing them to be an evil shape-changing demon thing, then they're not Evil, they just made a mistake. Similarly, if a character gives a vial of healing potion to someone, believing it to be poison and planning to loot the corpse once they've died but in fact curing them enough to save the Kingdom, that doesn't make the would-be poisoner Good.

It's only really as complex as that. Everything else is just playing Scruples.

Yogi
2008-01-04, 01:58 PM
Actions are what matter, while beleif comes in only in very extenuating circumstances. Usually it only applies when a character does something that winds up causing something drastically diffrent from what he intended, and that there was no reasonable way he could have knows that would happen.

SomethingElse
2008-01-04, 02:10 PM
One way to think about it would be G/E is what you do, and L/C is why you do it. After all, law-chaos has little if anything to do with whether or not you really obey the law. The LG monk who goes into Evil Orcland to begin hacking enemies is obeying the law of his home country but breaking the law of the orcish legions. In the same way, a CG bard who accepts a mission from the king is still following the law of his kingdom. These people just do their actions for different reasons - lawful people do it for honor or a code, chaotic people do it because of a desire to assert personal moral independence, and neutral people have a moral compass that's almost entirely focused on their G/E perspective (which in my opinion makes many N characters truly chaotic, but that's a different discussion.)

Amphimir Míriel
2008-01-04, 02:14 PM
As people above have stated, a character's actions determine alignment.

However, I can understand how some people can have trouble coming to terms with the fact that they are actually roleplaying an evil character. No one likes to think of oneself as a "bad person", but if we analyze our own actions (in game and in real life), we can run into some surprises.

Anyway, your game might benefit from the Expanded Alignment System linked in my sig.