Jedi vs. Aliens

[EntilZha]

Here's the setup:

On an obscure, backwater planet, the Separatists have discovered a hostile life form that gestates inside living hosts and has concentrated acid for blood, i.e. the Aliens. They decide to capture them and use them as bioweapons against the Republic. Republic intelligence operatives learn of the operation and inform the Jedi. They send a strike team to put a stop to it, but by the time they arrive, the Aliens have got out of control and have completely overrun the Separatist compound, turning it into a hive. The Jedi find themselves in the hive with alien warriors all around them. Who wins?

Jedi Advantages:
Knowledge of the Force
Lightsabers

Alien Advantages:
Fearless tactics
Sheer numbers
Coordination from the Queen

[Wizzardman]

...Wow. Jedi are possibly the only people who could face Aliens in melee combat--lightsabers automatically cauterize wounds, so the Jedi wouldn't get sprayed in the face with acid.

Tough one. While overall I prefer Xenomorphs to Jedi, I have to say that the Jedi will probably win. The Xenomorphs will get in a number of clever surprise attacks, but the Jedi will be able to evade many of them by force-enhanced reflexes.

...Actually, I take that back. Whichever side runs low on troops first wins--that way, by the inverse ninja law (which applies to both sides), the remaining troops will be so badass that they wipe the floor with the opposing team.

[Mr. Scaly]

I assume there's more than one Jedi? Maybe two or three since they don't travel in large groups.

My first instinct is to go with the Jedi. With Force sensitivity to enhance their senses and combat reflexes they should be able to detect the xenomorphs before they sneak up on them and cut them to small bits with their light sabers. Assuming they can't conceal themselves with the Force (can they? I'm no expert on Jedi power) they could proceed in that way to the center and take out the queen.

On the other hand the xenomorphs have acid blood. If the Jedi get a few drops on them they'll be in serious pain and easier prey. Plus the aliens aren't stupid...they're cunning predator animals and can learn through experimentation and combat.

So I'm not sure just now. I'll think about it while I cook supper. :smallsmile:

[lipe44]

Aliens because no matter what you do they always return...

[GoC]

...Wow. Jedi are possibly the only people who could face Aliens in melee combat

Apart from space marines.:smallamused:

[Wizzardman]

Apart from space marines.:smallamused:

Point taken. Power armor is probably acid-proof.

However, this train of thought has conjured up the image of what a Xenomorph might look like if it gestated inside of a Space Marine. I'm going to go cry in the closet now. :smalleek:

Edit: And it also led to the image of a Jedi-spawned Xenomorph. May the God-Emperor save us from what our masses of versus threads have created.

[Mr. Scaly]

Apart from space marines.:smallamused:

Don't forget the Predators. ^^ Alien vs Predator and the sequal are out now.

[GoC]

Point taken. Power armor is probably acid-proof.

However, this train of thought has conjured up the image of what a Xenomorph might look like if it gestated inside of a Space Marine. I'm going to go cry in the closet now. :smalleek:

What?!
A Space Marine just eats the facehugger for breakfast and lets his stomach acids digest the eggs...

What about the poor alien who accidentaly swallowed an SM ebryo?:smalleek:

In the Imperium of Man Space Marines infest you!

[Metal Head]

The Jedi would have a tough time. With the inferior numbers they'll die. Not even Yoda could stand against the aliens. Of course, Chuck Norris will come in the end and kill everyone.

[GoC]

The cartoon version of .the jedi would mince/vaporise/shred the xenomrphs in about 0.2 seconds.
Then again they could probably kill a combination of Solar Exalted, Chuck Norris, Pun-Pun and Silver Age Superman...

[Callos_DeTerran]

Point taken. Power armor is probably acid-proof.

Dunno about that. Tyranid acid seems pretty capable of melting into Space Marines.

Aside from the point though. Jedi are too lightly armored to stand for a long time against a mass of Aliens. Eventually hits WILL land and with xenomorphs that first one is usually the last one.

[TheOtherMC]

Dunno about that. Tyranid acid seems pretty capable of melting into Space Marines.

Aside from the point though. Jedi are too lightly armored to stand for a long time against a mass of Aliens. Eventually hits WILL land and with xenomorphs that first one is usually the last one.

Anyone else wanna see a Space Marine/Alien acid spitting contest?

They just sit there and spit acid at eachother till one croaks :smallbiggrin:

[Callos_DeTerran]

Anyone else wanna see a Space Marine/Alien acid spitting contest?

They just sit there and spit acid at eachother till one croaks :smallbiggrin:

Hmmmm....it WOULD be interesting..are xenomorphs immune to all acid or just their on? THAT shall be the determining factor! Course getting goopy acid spat into your eyes may take a Space Marine out of the contest in the first round...

[TheOtherMC]

Hmmmm....it WOULD be interesting..are xenomorphs immune to all acid or just their on? THAT shall be the determining factor! Course getting goopy acid spat into your eyes may take a Space Marine out of the contest in the first round...

"And they shall know no fear!"

They're Space Marines, they dont need something as trivial as "vision" to keep fighting and most likely killing anything in the immediate area :smallbiggrin:

[StickMan]

See now this depends on the Jedi, number of jedi and what weapon style they use. Obi wan for example would own as his style is all about not getting hit in melee and he is a master of it (He took Quigons death hard). Mace how ever would get owned as his style would be to aggressive to take on the hoards.

On the Alien side if the Aliens can span a Force using Jedi by gestating inside of one then I think the Jedi would have a major issue.




(Also on a side note Luke's era of Jedi would far much better against Xenomorphs, as they have fought a in a greater number of wars one of which was against and insectiod race that often fought in mass.)

[Mr. Scaly]

What kind of Jedi stealth skills are there? I know about cloaking oneself from detection by the force but can it actually make someone invisible or undetectable? With enough skill the Jedi could sneak past all the warriors and terminate the queen themselves, then escape and order the planet fire bombed.

[Tyrant]

What kind of Jedi stealth skills are there? I know about cloaking oneself from detection by the force but can it actually make someone invisible or undetectable? With enough skill the Jedi could sneak past all the warriors and terminate the queen themselves, then escape and order the planet fire bombed.

I'm fairly certain that the Aliens don't see as we do. Going stealth wouldn't be terribly effective against them in that case. You would have to block their means of sensing their environment. Assuming I am remembering AVP the video game correctly. And they have no visible eyes.

[WNxHasoroth]

For the sake of fairness if the Aliens can't see through Predator invisibility fields, they can't see through Jedi stealth.

[StickMan]

As far as I've seen very very few force users can go "Invisible" and even fewer Jedi. Many can use the force to enhance stealth however and sneaking to the queen is not out of the option. Also most force powers that do generate invisibility are mental so eyes would really not be an issue. However I don't think Clone era Jedi are well trained in this area but then I was always a fan of Luke's era of Jedi so I'm no expert.


Is there a D20 Alien we could actually do this fight, I think I've seen it but I'm not sure.

[Mr. Scaly]

I'm fairly certain that the Aliens don't see as we do. Going stealth wouldn't be terribly effective against them in that case. You would have to block their means of sensing their environment. Assuming I am remembering AVP the video game correctly. And they have no visible eyes.

Okay, direct stealth is out. That gives me an idea actually.

Jedi have been known to suppress certain instincts or urges in people ("You don't need to see our identification..."). In Dark Force Rising Luke suppressed the curiosity of a couple Imperial guards so he could steal a couple of uniforms and sneak through the rest of the base.

Then again, xenomorph minds are pretty alien (no pun intended), and Jabba was immune to that kind of thing. And the whole thing is described as being a little close tot he Dark Side...

[thubby]

as long as the jedi could secure some kind of camp and appropriate perimeter, they would massacre the xenomorphs. if they can't then they are just going to die in their sleep if ths takes more than a day or 2.
a lot of the alien's strength comes from fighting in closed areas where they can hide, combined with the fact that they already control any area the humans go. a defensive posture negates that. jedi don't have to play the aliens games because they aren't in any kind of hurry. their armored hides dont help much against light sabers
jedi are more than capable than fighting large numbers of anything, worst comes to worst they force wave them into walls and mildly inconvenience themselves with pools of acid.

I think if the jedi group was small it would come down to a dash for the queen. and even then i think they would win.

[PlasticSoldier]

@^Thubby: As a Strike Force I don't think they're intended to lay siege.

Is a lightsaber capable of blocking acid spit?

If no, Aliens win by Attrition, If yes, Jedi win because Aliens have no defence against lightsabers and their ranged attack is useless.

[Wizzardman]

as long as the jedi could secure some kind of camp and appropriate perimeter, they would massacre the xenomorphs. if they can't then they are just going to die in their sleep if ths takes more than a day or 2.
a lot of the alien's strength comes from fighting in closed areas where they can hide, combined with the fact that they already control any area the humans go. a defensive posture negates that. jedi don't have to play the aliens games because they aren't in any kind of hurry. their armored hides dont help much against light sabers
jedi are more than capable than fighting large numbers of anything, worst comes to worst they force wave them into walls and mildly inconvenience themselves with pools of acid.

I think if the jedi group was small it would come down to a dash for the queen. and even then i think they would win.

I dunno. It would definitely be a massacre in the beginning, but Xenomorphs do have the capacity to change tactics when things aren't going their way. There's a good chance that, if a direct assault doesn't work, and the Aliens cannot find any easy indirect route, they'll switch to stealth-based tactics, and attempt to beat the Jedi by attrition--slowly picking off a few of them at a time, and waiting for the Jedi to get tired. It'll take forever, but if there's no time limit, the Xenomorphs will have both time to kill and troops to zerg rush with.

The problem with targeting the queen is that every Alien has the potential to become a queen. If you leave even a single Xenomorph behind, if it has enough food, it will transform into Queen Mode and rebuild the Hive.

[Ossian]

Xenos normally take down a couple of ensign before the other Ha-hoo boys make up their minds and decide it's better to nuke the whole thing from orbit ("it's the only way to be sure", E.R.). So, at least a couple of padawands have to fall, sorry.

I give this to the jedis though. Then all life ends in Universe as we know it, because force sensitive Xenomorphs start hatching, until eventually you get a FS queen, which is basically Starcraft's Overmind. Life ends.

It could end sooner though. Zergling rush. ;)

O.

[Hallavast]

It turns into a non-conflict. The Jedi retreat (fight their way out if they must) and leave the planet since the threat of separatist exploitation is temporarily gone. Then they have the Republic set up a blockade or a space garrison (perhaps even on one of the planet's moons, if any).

The Jedi are against useless slaughter on principle... usually.

[GoC]

I dunno. It would definitely be a massacre in the beginning, but Xenomorphs do have the capacity to change tactics when things aren't going their way. There's a good chance that, if a direct assault doesn't work, and the Aliens cannot find any easy indirect route, they'll switch to stealth-based tactics, and attempt to beat the Jedi by attrition--slowly picking off a few of them at a time, and waiting for the Jedi to get tired.

The whole point of the perimeter is to prevent attrition and the "picking off" of jedis.
I also don't think stealth works against jedi. Don't they have lifesense and super-enhanced senses?

[Zenos]

Or just find out where the Queen is and use one of those "fantastic turbolasers" which every SW-geek drones on about in versus threads.

[Shraik]

They wouldn't need to worry about the Acid blood because lightsabers Cautirize wounds. They also have the force. little Equation of mine...
Force+Jedi=win Jedi>Aliens
Henceforth Force+Jedi>>Aliens

[Mr. Scaly]

If it's just a few Jedi they won't have access to any turbolasers. Maybe some clone support troops, but I doubt they'd have a lot of planet busting equipment.

[Wizzardman]

The whole point of the perimeter is to prevent attrition and the "picking off" of jedis.
I also don't think stealth works against jedi. Don't they have lifesense and super-enhanced senses?

I figured that. The problem is that Xenomorhs are really good at picking off people on perimeters, and will have more than enough bodies to throw at the Jedi until they figure out a proper picking-off strategy.

Lifesense has always been problematic for Jedi--if it were usable that continuously, Jedi would never get surprised. Frequently, however, they are surprised--even by large groups of people standing in the next room, waiting for them.

Super-enhanced senses will help, but again, Aliens are really good at stealth. And the fatigue from standing on watch, waiting for hordes of hungry aliens to burst out of the woodwork after you, will really put a drain on their super-senses after a while.


They wouldn't need to worry about the Acid blood because lightsabers Cautirize wounds. They also have the force. little Equation of mine...
Force+Jedi=win Jedi>Aliens
Henceforth Force+Jedi>>Aliens

The cauterization factor was mentioned previously--and actually, its hard to tell. Xenomorphs are very insectoid, and composed mostly of metal, so its hard to tell if the heat from a lightsaber will actually seal their acid-leaking wounds properly, or if it would just make them drip molten metal carapace, too. And, of course, Aliens have been known to spit the acid at their enemies.

...Your equation... it has no evidence... and makes no sense, as a Jedi without the Force is not a Jedi at all. Please... stop... the horrible pain... your equation makes my brain bleed...

[Raiser Blade]

Jedi are very rarely suprised. So sneak attacking one is pointless. Also Jedi do not need sleep they can just meditate while still being on guard.

[Wizzardman]

Jedi are very rarely suprised. So sneak attacking one is pointless. Also Jedi do not need sleep they can just meditate while still being on guard.

Only highly skilled Jedi can both meditate and guard effectively at the same time--and seeing as they'll need all of their senses at full alert to locate Xenomorphs sneaking up on them, I doubt they'll be able to meditate much.

And, though people throughout the Star Wars Universe say "Jedi are rarely surprised", in the movies and in the EU, the Jedi get surprised a lot.

[Talkkno]

In my opion, the situation described in the opening post is a little nonsensical, given your average Jedi Padawan during the clone wars commanded 2,304 clone troopers.....
Anyways, I pretty sure acid won't do much seeing Jedi can keeping going after getting shot at by one blaster bolt, which as we can see, as at the very least have the power of getting a concussion grenade blown in your face.

[Wizzardman]

In my opion, the situation described in the opening post is a little nonsensical, given your average Jedi Padawan during the clone wars commanded 2,304 clone troopers.....
Anyways, I pretty sure acid won't do much seeing Jedi can keeping going after getting shot at by one blaster bolt, which as we can see, as at the very least have the power of getting a concussion grenade blown in your face.

...You haven't seen the Alien movies, have you?

Heat burns from blaster shots are very different from acid burns. Especially when the acid has been demonstrated to burn through metal and body armor, and melt through people's faces and torsos, all in a matter of seconds. Heat burns from blasters will kill the average person, but won't continue to burn and eat their way into the person's body for about a minute.

In the opening sequence of the new AvP movie, a few small drops of acid from a dying facehugger fall onto the arm of a human being. Within twenty seconds, we see the acid burn through the guy's flesh until his arm drops off just below the elbow. A Jedi may be able to survive acid splash to his extremeties, and he may be able to fend off some of the burning via the force, but the acid will at least slow him down. A lot.

[Raiser Blade]

And, though people throughout the Star Wars Universe say "Jedi are rarely surprised", in the movies and in the EU, the Jedi get surprised a lot.

Jedi on their guard are rarely suprised. I assume in this scenario the jedi are on their guard.

Thus they shouldn't be suprised.

[Eita]

Side-note: Just so you know, Space Marines can spit acid too.

[Tyrant]

The problem with targeting the queen is that every Alien has the potential to become a queen. If you leave even a single Xenomorph behind, if it has enough food, it will transform into Queen Mode and rebuild the Hive.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting this? The movies don't support this idea that I am aware of. One or two of the comics I have read indicate that the eggs need to be treated with (or somehow have administered) Royal Jelly to produce new queen bearing face huggers. Similar to bees on Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_jelly look under popular culture. I checked to make sure that was what is called, but I have the actual issues so I know this isn't fan fluff.


The cauterization factor was mentioned previously--and actually, its hard to tell. Xenomorphs are very insectoid, and composed mostly of metal, so its hard to tell if the heat from a lightsaber will actually seal their acid-leaking wounds properly, or if it would just make them drip molten metal carapace, too. And, of course, Aliens have been known to spit the acid at their enemies.

I am quite certain they are not made of metal. While they have a biomechanical appearance, that doesn't mean they are in fact metal. I'll have to watch through Alien again, but I was reasonably certain the droid said what it was primarily made of. I was thinking it was chitin (have to look it up later). Aside from that, when they explode they don't spray shrapnel out in all directions that slices through everything as jagged metal exploding outward would. They explode, but it's in chunks not bits of metal. Parts of them do appear to be metallic, but for them to be mostly metal they wouldn't be able to move a whole lot. Or the metal would be quite thin (which is supported by the fact they seem to almost always blow up upon death) in which case it would either be destroyed by the lightsaber like all other small bits of metal seem to be, or wouldn't be in any volume to be concerned about.

[GoC]

I figured that. The problem is that Xenomorhs are really good at picking off people on perimeters, and will have more than enough bodies to throw at the Jedi until they figure out a proper picking-off strategy.
Pray tell how you can pick off some jedi who've set up camp in the middle of a large field of 3 inch tall grass? Doesn't seem possible to me...


Lifesense has always been problematic for Jedi--if it were usable that continuously, Jedi would never get surprised. Frequently, however, they are surprised--even by large groups of people standing in the next room, waiting for them.
That's because there's always been some sort of Sith blocking their senses.


Super-enhanced senses will help, but again, Aliens are really good at stealth. And the fatigue from standing on watch, waiting for hordes of hungry aliens to burst out of the woodwork after you, will really put a drain on their super-senses after a while.
There is no woodwork.:smalltongue:


Only highly skilled Jedi can both meditate and guard effectively at the same time--and seeing as they'll need all of their senses at full alert to locate Xenomorphs sneaking up on them, I doubt they'll be able to meditate much.
Wouldn't they guard in shifts?

As for the acid... even if it's PH 1 it's not going to do anywhere near the damage of a grenade.

[Wizzardman]

Out of curiosity, where are you getting this?

Forgive me. I'm actually getting significant amounts of my knowledge on Aliens from the various video games. I was fairly sure that the comics and movies supported the 'made of metal' statement, however--their chitin is partially composed of iron.


Pray tell how you can pick off some jedi you've set up camp in the middle of a large field of 3 inch tall grass? Doesn't seem possible to me...
Three inch tall grass is plenty for a facehugger--and there's no gurantee the Jedi will get the 'three inch tall grass' hiding spot they prefer. Additionally, even Jedi will have to break formation occasionally--such as to acquire food, to change guard shifts, etc. Finally, Xenomorphs have been known to burrow in the past--it wouldn't take much for a few of them to simply burrow under the encampment.




That's because there's always been some sort of Sith blocking their senses.
Do we have any information on the reliability of their senses when there aren't Sith blocking them? The Jedi certainly seemed surpised enough during the Clone Wars--both from General Grievous, who was not force-sensitive, yet managed to surprise a number of Jedi in the animated seris, and from the Clone Troopers, who murdered many Jedi on the battlefield (where, you know, any sensible person would be very alert--the enemy will try very hard to assassinate its opponent's leaders [the Jedi], and so Jedi should be prepared for attacks at any moment. Additionally, isn't 'force sense' supposed to reveal emotions as well?). The Jedi were also surprised repeatedly during the Yuuzhon Vong era by the Peace group that worked for the Vong, as well as during other parts of the EU.




There is no woodwork.:smalltongue:
...Then the Xenomorphs shall provide the Jedi with a gigantic wooden horse, as a gesture of peace and friendship. Muwahahaha. :smalltongue:




Wouldn't they guard in shifts?
Depends on how many Jedi there are--and that's still no gurantee. Too few guards, and they'll get overrun while their comrades are trying to crawl out of their sleeping bags and get into fighting position. Too many, and everyone's going to get tired. The effectiveness of guarding in shifts is based on how easy and likely it would be for the Xenomorphs to overrun the guards--and considering that the majority of Xenomorph's tactics consist of Charging En Masse, the Jedi are going to need a lot of guards awake at a time.




As for the acid... even if it's PH 1 it's not going to do anywhere near the damage of a grenade.
Except this is crazy eats-through-metal-floors superacid. And grenades don't drip on you from the guy you're slicing in half--they land on the floor, are big and obvious and a few feet away, so are somewhat easier to dodge. Plus, grenade shrapnel doesn't eat its way through your flesh if only a tiny bit hits you.

[GoC]

Three inch tall grass is plenty for a facehugger--and there's no gurantee the Jedi will get the 'three inch tall grass' hiding spot they prefer. Additionally, even Jedi will have to break formation occasionally--such as to acquire food, to change guard shifts, etc. Finally, Xenomorphs have been known to burrow in the past--it wouldn't take much for a few of them to simply burrow under the encampment.
Well when they break formation their relief will be where they were.
Force senses! Almost all animals have emotions (which jedi can definitely sense).
They just burrow down to meet them, will the burrowing Xenomorphs and collapse the tunnels!
We also need the OP to clarify where the battle takes place. In a field? in the center of a rebel base? in a dense jungle?


Do we have any information on the reliability of their senses when there aren't Sith blocking them? The Jedi certainly seemed surpised enough during the Clone Wars--both from General Grievous, who was not force-sensitive, yet managed to surprise a number of Jedi in the animated seris, and from the Clone Troopers, who murdered many Jedi on the battlefield (where, you know, any sensible person would be very alert--the enemy will try very hard to assassinate its opponent's leaders [the Jedi], and so Jedi should be prepared for attacks at any moment. Additionally, isn't 'force sense' supposed to reveal emotions as well?).
Yeah it does.
Apparently there was something speical about clone troopers that prevented the jedi from detecting their intent.
And the infamous Palpatine had been weakening the jedi for years. I read in one of the books that the jedi can sense danger even from a non-living source.

And don't bring CN jedi into this unless you want a massacre of epid proportions.:smalltongue:


...Then the Xenomorphs shall provide the Jedi with a gigantic wooden horse, as a gesture of peace and friendship. Muwahahaha. :smalltongue:
Damn! A foolproof plan...
I know! The jedi will consider it some sort of gift and knowing that Xenomorphs have very poor taste in gifts they'll give it to Palpatine!:smalltongue:


Depends on how many Jedi there are--and that's still no gurantee. Too few guards, and they'll get overrun while their comrades are trying to crawl out of their sleeping bags and get into fighting position. Too many, and everyone's going to get tired. The effectiveness of guarding in shifts is based on how easy and likely it would be for the Xenomorphs to overrun the guards--and considering that the majority of Xenomorph's tactics consist of Charging En Masse, the Jedi are going to need a lot of guards awake at a time.
Yeah, we need some numbers on how many of each side there are.


Except this is crazy eats-through-metal-floors superacid. And grenades don't drip on you from the guy you're slicing in half--they land on the floor, are big and obvious and a few feet away, so are somewhat easier to dodge. Plus, grenade shrapnel doesn't eat its way through your flesh if only a tiny bit hits you.

Nope, it rips through your flesh and out the other side.:smalltongue:
Actualy grenades always fragment in the air just next to your face, haven't you ever played Worms2?:smalltongue:
So it's not a normal chemical acid? how does it work then? Is it just a proton "soup"?