Tyranids vs Xenomorphs, which galactic horror would win? [Archive]

Zenos

2008-01-05, 06:54 AM

At first I wasthinking the Tyrannids wipe the floor with the Aliens. After all all the Aliens have is claws and the Tyrannids have bio-plasma cannons and psychic powers. BUT I seem to remember when aliens hatch out of a species they gain the attributes of the species ( hence the Alien hatched out of a dog in Alien 3 looks so different and comic fans will rember the badness of the Aliens/Stormwatch cross-over. Yep Aliens with super-powers.) so after a bit you will have Aliens with plasma cannons.
Pretty much at that point I think the aliens become pretty much indistinguishable from tjhe Tyrannids. So the only deciding factor is which is stronger the Psychic bond of the Aliens or the influence of the Hive Mind

And the 'Nids will carry away xenomorphs, melt them into biomass goo and make new 'Nid creatures out of them. Soon there's a new Tyranid unit walking around with glossy black carapace and doing cool Alien-style bites.

Smeik

2008-01-05, 07:08 AM

so it's basically a question of who gets the first big kill?

Zenos

2008-01-05, 07:11 AM

so it's basically a question of who gets the first big kill?

Essentialy a WW1 of the bug aliens, I say.

Smeik

2008-01-05, 07:26 AM

Essentialy a WW1 of the bug aliens, I say.

Whoever slows down in reproduction and invents democracy loses?

Zenos

2008-01-05, 07:28 AM

Whoever slows down in reproduction and invents democracy loses?

I was thinking more about "One side goes on the offensive, loses lots of troops, then gets pushed back to the original starting line. Stalemate."
But if it was how you talked about it the Tyranids would win, the Xenomorphs doesn't have any ability to actualy go away from the planet they're fighting on so the 'Nids can just go to another place, gather up some biomass and then they will be at it again. Plus, the Tyranids just need to gather biomass to get more troops, the Xenomorphs must actualy implant chestbursters into their enemeis before they can grow into full-sized aliens. Considering that the Tyranids often harvest biomass mid-battle by means of Rippers, they would have most production.
And by the way, we've not mentioned those miasmic spores that follows the Tyranid invasion...

Warshrike

2008-01-05, 07:37 AM

It depends what level of each are present. Do the Xenomorphs get Predaliens and Praetarians, or just Queen and Drones??
Early level Tyranid invasion, or midswing??

My theory is as follows-
The Tyranids invade planets with an already very high level of Biomass, which would mean many different animals of many different kinds. This in mind, there would be a wide variety of Xenomorphs, due to their nature of taking on characteristics, and also a large number of them on the world due to the large biomass drawing the Tyranids.
So, we then have the Tyranids arriving at the planet, beggining with the Mycetic Spore phase, which causes the plantlife and animal life to explode into bigger and badder forms. This gives the aliens more forms and, if it works on them, also makes them more powerful in itself.
We then have the Nid's trying to land Vanguard Organisms. Mainly, Genestealers and Lictors. At this stage, the Xenomorphs have an advantage. The Nids have no Range as yet, making it a combat of Stealth and CC. While the Stealers and Lictors are both designed for this role, it's the job of the entire Alien species. You also have to remember that an Aliens Blood contains acid, meaning that to kill one a Genestealer or Lictor is pretty much screwed anyways.
This gives the Aliens yet more hosts before the arrival of the first series of swarms, containing mainly Warriors, Hive Tyrants, Spores, and Gaunts. Here is the Tyranids first ace- Ranged Weapons. However, the Tyranids rely on their Spores to cause a race to become sick, and their weapons don't have any automatic targetting. To call ones attention to the Alienverse, an alien running at full speed couldn't be locked on by a Smartgun, what hope does a Nid have of hitting it?? Once an Alien Facehugger gets its hands onto a Ranged nid, there is also the chance of a Ranged Alien, giving them a further advantage.
Ok, so lets look at things so far.
Team Tyranid-
Gaunts
Rippers
Stealers
Lictors
Tyrants
Biovores+Assorted Spore Mines
Warriors

Team Xenomorph
Drones
Queen
Praetarions
Native Forms
Tyranid Forms

Now, the final stage of the Nid invasion begins, and it brings the true threat to the aliens... Gargoyles. Now, let's presume for a while that the Xenomorphs do NOT have a ranged form from the Nids, and have NOT evolved their own flying form from native life. Gargoyles have guns.
So what it really comes down to, is the Xenomorphs need a way to either fly, shoot, or jump high enough to take out the gargoyles.
Given that, my final thoughts on the battle are;

Xenomorph Victory if:
Powerful native forms
Victory against early Nids, giving them a chance to take aspects
Range/Fly/Jump to take out Nid Air.
Nids have no air for some reason((Eventually, killing the Aliens will just wipe the Nids out due to Acid. Hell, it's dissolve the planet eventually!!

Nid Win if:
Xenomorph can't hit airbourne
Eventual overcoming of the Aliens using limited numbers and a way of overcoming Air.

The only other deciding factor is who eats better, and if Rippers are immune to Xenomorph acid...
Tyranids need to get a Ripper to eat Biomass, then get it back to a hiveship before they can use it. Aliens only need to get a Facehugger on the host, and it's screwed.

WNxHasoroth

2008-01-05, 07:44 AM

Aliens implants hosts, gene stealers do too. Acid bloods an option for all 'nids. So it goes down to numbers.

Nids win.

Would love to see a lictor fighting a predator.

Callos_DeTerran

2008-01-05, 09:19 AM

Xenomorphs adopting Tyranid ranged weapons is a non-issue at this point in time. At the current stage of 'nid evolution a Tyranid's ranged weapon and itself are two separate entities. Assimilating a 'nid that has one may provide a Xeno with the proper parts to use one but not the gun itself.

As for acid blood....hmmm...depends, I suppose, on if the two acids would work on each other or if the Tyranids wouldn't just....evolve a defense mid-invasion (as their prone to do). I'm all for saying yes then to Xeno acid working, but it's not THAT much of an advantage. Again theres the ranged weapon thing, but also losing a single limb won't stop something like a Carnifex or Hive Warrior from continuing the fight, just slow it down a little.

I don't think Xeno's would ever be able to capture a tyranid of any kind mid-invasion and attach a face-hugger to them. The only thing that stops hosts from killing face hugger while it's attached is it's usually knocked out and the facehugger threatens to strangle if they resist (which is a bad threat for 'nids since they have no sense of self). Aside from that Xeno animal cunning is bad for actually capturing a live Tyranid since the Tyranid won't back down if cornered and will keep fighting until the Xeno figures out someway to knock it out (highly difficult) without dying in the process or just plain kills it and gives up on the effort. If it was pre-invasion step, there'd be a greater chance of them capturing a Genestealer (A broodlord is just a no-no) and implanting but I'm not sure how they would KEEP it captured once it woke up. Depends on if Genestealer claws could cut through the resin. A lictor is even harder since their also masters of stealth (they quite literally change coloration to blend in even better) and their just so much...bigger. And as per the norm, bigger usually means stronger and bigger natural weapons (Lictor blades are big) and once an alien is killed a Lictor's first reaction will usually be to devour it/it's brain (not sure which) to discover memories and weaknesses and whatnot in which case the Xeno's better pray that acid dissolves the lictor before the ingormation it might gather goes straight to the Hive Mind. And in that case it IS game over cause the 'nids will focus all their efforts on the Hive Queen until it's dead then pick off the survivors. Again though I think the acid may interfere with that. Even if a chestbuster is implanted though theres another difficulty of the chestbuster surviving. Depending on the type of 'nid captured the xeno's won't be able to stop the 'nid from escaping without killing it, and in that case it rejoins the other 'nids, the buster...well bursts, and the other 'nids eat it or see if it can swim in a digestion pool cause it's essentially a little bundle of bio-mass for them.

As for the spores released in the air making more powerful variations for the Xenos to implant, they still need to CAPTURE those specimens. Who knows? Maybe something became the equivalent of Xeno predator, doubtful, but it could happen. I don't think the spores would work on Xeno's though..the steel-like hide keeps out the spores naturally and the acid usually used to put holes in metal FOR the spores didn't strike me as powerful enough to get through a xenomorph's hide.

What really needs to be clear is what sort of forces the 'nids can bring to bear and what the xenomorph's already have. Just saying 'all of them' secures 'nid victory so limits need to be put in place.

Zenos

2008-01-05, 09:39 AM

Illiterate Scribe

2008-01-05, 10:01 AM

They normally send Space Marine strike forces to place hueg bombs on board, and then teleport out. It's in one of the White Dwarf issues, I think.

Zenos

2008-01-05, 10:06 AM

They normally send Space Marine strike forces to place hueg bombs on board, and then teleport out. It's in one of the White Dwarf issues, I think.

Thank you. Well, since the Xenomorphs aren't into explosives, the Tyranids probably win in a war of attrition.

Storm Bringer

2008-01-05, 10:38 AM

How does the Imperium of Mankind defeat a Tyranid invasion anyways? Blow up their bio-ships with their own space ships? for in that case, the Xenomorphs are toast, since they've got no space power (as I know of, anyways).

satauation attacks, mostly. the 'nids main tatic at a strategic level is "swamp em". the Imperiums main counter is large amounts of high exploives, on a tactical, stragic and obrital level.

as to who would win, it'd have to be the nids. since a genestealer is more or less a direct copy of a alien dorne, we have a good idea of just what will kill one of them. And the nids got lots of stuff that can drop a 'stealer.

the acid blood would help, but only so much. the nids can also use it, if they feel so inclined, and they are smart enough to use ranged attacks to deal with drones when they can. the 'nids have arty, air support, titans, and orbital weaponry to call upon, not to mention some bad-ass small arms. the xenos have got........claws and stealth. Since the nid lictors are shown to be able to hide from 40K electronic scanners, and the xenos are shown to show up on the Aliens-saga equivlent, we can assume that they nids have an edge thier, and thier area effect weaponry gives them a boost as well.

also, the aliens whole fave hugger thing falls down when confronted with a foe that has no concept of compassion or concern of losses. the nids are a race than can make it's own troops willingly jump into pits of acid. the moment they found one of thier own was inflected, they'd shred it on the spot. or let it walk into a degestion pool, whatever. in short, they don't care about lossing indevidual 'nids, any more than we worry about loosing skin cells. nids are expendable. accordding to one far out piece of fluff, some of the nids don't even have stomachs, as their not going to live long enough to need them.

in short, the 'nids are the aliens, but equipped to fight agianst a modern human army in the open.

and win.

in short, the nids have the diverseity to

LordVader

2008-01-05, 01:37 PM

'Nids also have Heirophant Bio-Titans.
http://www.thewarstore.com/media/ss_size2/FWIA-TYR-T-007.jpg

Those little dudes in the lower right-hand corner are human-sized.
'Nuff said.

In addition to this, 'Nids have smaller versions about half the size, called Hierodules, and a giant, snake-like burrower about half the size of the Titan as well, called a Trygon.
Nids also have vastly superior numbers, much larger bio-creatures, and most importantly, expendability. You facehug a Carnifex? Fine, they'll just kill it and move on. It's important to remember here we're talking about a race that sacrifices millions of smaller combat organisms just to exhaust the ammunition of their opponents.

Xenomorph acid blood will not help as after the first few times it is used, once the Norn Queens get a sample, all further Tyranid organisms produced will have an immunity to it built into their biological systems. So it won't help much.

theripperfex

2008-01-05, 01:58 PM

I think it's also worth pointing out that Xenomorphs use hit and run/terror tactics against modern-ish (a little futuristic) day troops, and seem to have always lost so far.

Nids fight planetary wars against the greatest soldiers in the 40th milennia, and win (usually).

Also, Xenomorphs have nothing to use against a biotitan, as soon as the nids learn where the queen is, they just march 1 or 2 of them (along with a sea of termagants and warriors to bodyblock ofcourse) towards the queen...

GG follows quickly.

(Oh, and the Tyranid version of a queen sits in high orbit, and they can quickly grow a new one, so Xenomorphs couldn't even touch it).

puppyavenger

2008-01-05, 02:00 PM

What happens if a genestealer implants a alien?

(Oh, and the Tyranid version of a queen sits in high orbit, and they can quickly grow a new one, so Xenomorphs couldn't even touch it).

sorta, there are several of them on each hive ship, andacording to the Tyranid codex if one is killed it sends a impulse to all other hive ship to create more. Also don't forget that the Hive ships themselves are massive super-intelligent creature.

Storm Bringer

2008-01-05, 06:00 PM

I think we can wrap this one up, folks. I don't think i've actaully seen anyone try and fight the xenos corner here. looks like a fight thread with an actual, clear winner.

can't be a fight thread then.:smallannoyed:

Wizzardman

2008-01-05, 06:10 PM

...They fight each other, repeatedly acquire each other's basic traits, and end up evolving together into some kinda of super Xenonid race of doom and destruction?

This sounds bloody awesome.

Fuzzy_Juan

2008-01-05, 06:35 PM

Tyranids...hyperevolving race of aliens with biotechnology that consume biomatter to fuel their race...

Xenomorphs - hyperevolving race of aliens that take on the the genetic material of other species when they use them as hosts...

What happens when the swarm of hive fleet Behemoth descends upon the Xenomorphs and a war of consumption occurs?!?!?!

Hive fleet Krakken :smallbiggrin:

No seriously...in a single encounter, the Nids win since they have guns and can rend in CC...not to mention more BIG bugs than just the one queen...In a protracted war between the two...they would absorb the other and fuse together...the result would be a new hive fleet with the combined force of both as the hivemind became the queen and the queen became one with the hive mind...Warriors would hatch with the genetic makup of gaunts, genestealers, tyranid warriors...you get Nids that are now black with acid blood...great...

JellyPooga

2008-01-05, 07:05 PM

B..bu..but hang on a minute...this whole arguement is moot and pointless. Genestealers are just a cheap rip of Xenomorphs (no insult intended to the fine people at GW)...in fact the whole Tyranid race is just an extrapolation of the Alien films/'verse and the ideas presented therein.

By that count, Xenomorphs win, 'cos they were there first :smallbiggrin:

JellyPooga

2008-01-05, 07:08 PM

JellyPooga

2008-01-05, 07:10 PM

puppyavenger

2008-01-05, 07:48 PM

Actualy, if the Fleet thinks its control is in danger it would porbably just skip to the atmosphere drinking stage. Or maby blast the Qeen trying to take4 control with the combined Phykic power of the fleet.

Talkkno

2008-01-06, 12:19 AM

I would just like to point something
"Captain, I'm picking up an approaching ship."

"What can you tell me about it?"

"Oh my God, it's organic! What are we going to do, Captain?"

"There's not much we can do, Ensign. Organic technology is so far beyond our grasp that we can't even imagine the power they must have. All we have is high-powered guns, nuclear missiles, and our primitive metallic armour. What are you reading from their incredibly advanced bio-ship?"

"Their ship is soft and flexible. Its construction materials are semi-permeable and laced with a network of delicate circulation passages. Instead of using impermeable high-density materials, it's made from countless tiny thin-walled cells which tend to rapidly break down in the presence of corrosive chemicals or radiation."

"What? And we were supposed to be afraid of this? Open fire!"
That is all.

tyckspoon

2008-01-06, 07:58 PM

"Their ship is soft and flexible. Its construction materials are semi-permeable and laced with a network of delicate circulation passages. Instead of using impermeable high-density materials, it's made from countless tiny thin-walled cells which tend to rapidly break down in the presence of corrosive chemicals or radiation."

You mean impermeable high-density materials like an outer wall of high mineral content chitin, sufficiently toughened to endure space travel and the weapons of opposing forces? That kind of high density impermeable stuff? Why would you assume the entirety of a Tyranid ship is soft?

Talkkno

2008-01-06, 08:15 PM

You mean impermeable high-density materials like an outer wall of high mineral content chitin, sufficiently toughened to endure space travel and the weapons of opposing forces? That kind of high density impermeable stuff? Why would you assume the entirety of a Tyranid ship is soft?

It is merely an joke of the silliness of Organic technology matching traditional heavy metal technology.

Warshrike

2008-01-06, 10:31 PM

Aliens can beat Predators, and they're pretty high-tech.
And as for either vs Human-
The Aliens always get defeated by explosion.
The Tyranids always get defeated by exterminatus on a planetary scale.
If the Aliens were in the 40k Universe, I predict they'd get Exterminatus, too.

And yeah, Tyranids are pretty much just a cheap rip. There's also the fact that some old 'Nid models WERE literally just Xenomorphs given 40k rules.

I'd still put my money on the aliens, actually.

North

2008-01-06, 10:51 PM

The 'Nids would decimate the aliens. Even if they are a rip off.

Eita

2008-01-07, 12:16 AM

Darkone8752

2008-01-07, 06:58 AM

"What? And we were supposed to be afraid of this? Open fire!"
That is all.
This is made of win and cookies.

break down in the presence of corrosive chemicals or radiation." is it too late to point out the fact there is radiation in space? :smalleek:

TheRiov

2008-01-07, 02:31 PM

is it too late to point out the fact there is radiation in space? :smalleek:

only if I'm allowed to point out that LEDs, your average toaster, cell phone, computer monitor, and pretty much everything emits SOME kind of radiation, even if its just your standard blackbody heat.

Storm Bringer

2008-01-07, 05:17 PM

only if I'm allowed to point out that LEDs, your average toaster, cell phone, computer monitor, and pretty much everything emits SOME kind of radiation, even if its just your standard blackbody heat.

you know, most of those items are designed to emit EM radition on a wavelength of 400-700nm...........

*wonders how quickly the geeks will get the joke*

And nids are not a rip-off. Nids are aliens extrapolated into a army that can fight conventional battles and win.

ArtifexFelicis

2008-01-07, 05:54 PM

Darkone8752

2008-01-07, 06:12 PM

Xenomorth queen heirophant? That thing would be massive.

Riov, i was talking about noticeable radiation :P. Hell laser is an acronym for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation (damn, i had to look up the exact wording, havn't seen it since i read it in a spelling book in like 1st grade.).

puppyavenger

2008-01-07, 06:37 PM

Simply basing it off of my own personal enjoyment, the xenomorphs should win. This below is also from a basic browsing of Wikipedia for the 'nids.

Looking at it more objectively, and given that the 'nods have a time advantage, it would entirely be when the xenomorphs attack, and how they attack. On their own, the xenomorphs are a smart little bugger of a species, and is able to figure out most basic machinery fairly easily. However, according the the fourth movie, they also get drastically smarter depending on each new generation of bugs. In Ripley's case, when the Queen was born from a human, THOSE aliens could read, because of the genetic memory from Ripley.

So basically, it all really depends on how the attack starts. If the aliens have only really been able to get weak wildlife or even just humans or something not so good for a while, then they would probably lose. If they get a Queen of the 'nids, then it could be much more different. Hell, they might even fly under the tyranids' "radar" because they're the same beings for a while.

Of course, a Carnifex Xenomorph combination would be awesome, now that I think about it. Especially a Queen version.

as said before, Tyranids Queens are in orbit and having something with the same brain structure as the Tyranids meand you in effect are a Tyranids, subject to the wims of the nearest Synapse. If the try to do it on a Synapse then the Ships from orbit would order it to infitrate the hive. The Ships can go up to 45km long so The probably woudn't even notest a chestburster. And if they could get na ship equivilent then the fleet is a conglomerate mind that would override the Queen. Who is a lot farther away, and at this point probably has less mental power.

ArtifexFelicis

2008-01-07, 07:12 PM

Mostly because I can really, here is a following argument for it. Could it also be possible that the Xenomorph Queen is more "powerful" with her link, and that the tryanid Queen would not be able to overcome it? That would throw a large monkey wrench into the Tryanids, since the Aliens would then be able to control them without even bothering to kill and impregnate them.

Of course, throwing another wrench into the works would simply basing it off how the xenomrophs evolve. Something like the Predator/Xenomorph Queen can impregnate a creature directly, without any eggs at all. Should a Xenomorph/Tyranid come about, she might be able to even force the tyranids nearby her to "grow" their own xenomorphs from their body, without a single touch from the Synapse actually affecting them. The xenomorphs are very much so a super invasive species, and merely getting part of their genetic thoughts into the Synapse might be enough to bring the whole thing under the Xenomorphs sway.

Storm Bringer

2008-01-08, 07:41 AM

Mostly because I can really, here is a following argument for it. Could it also be possible that the Xenomorph Queen is more "powerful" with her link, and that the tryanid Queen would not be able to overcome it? That would throw a large monkey wrench into the Tryanids, since the Aliens would then be able to control them without even bothering to kill and impregnate them.

why whould her mental control be stronger than the gesalt intellgence of every other Synapse nid in that hive fleet, or possibly (depending on which version of the fluff you read) every other Synapse in existance? she might be able to control over out of Synapse nids, but if they were under the orders of a Synapse creature, then i can't see the queen winning a straight contest of willpower.

Rawr Kitteh

2010-03-16, 08:56 PM

Awesome post OP, just had to ressurect this one.

IIRC any alien drone has the ability within it to hide away and transform into a Queen given correct conditions. Easiest example I can recall is the ending of AvP 2010 on the aliens campaign on the nightmare difficuty. Your drone evolves into a Queen after the old one is destroyed. The drone seems to enter a metamorphosis stage where it goo's up an area and eventually splits its skin.

It is definately a hard battle. But I think the aliens would eventually win. They have a psychic link with their queens, which would feasibly provide some defence from the hive minds ability to call warp storms and wreak general psychic havok.

Also, as stated about the nids hive mind, their synapse may even be vulnerable to the alien queens call.

The tyranids would react to the face huggers implantation in the same way they would react to a parasite. The instant a facehugger hit a nid that is within synapse, they would be aware of the parasite.

The nids devour everything planetside eventually, they would just send the "infested" nid into a gene pool. Gaining the DNA memory of the entire alien species. But, it would take time for the DNA to be properly analysed by the nid queens. We are talking about a species just as biologically complex as the tyranids.

Now the aliens, the aliens would sacrifice a couple of drones figuring out the tyranids weaknesses (synapse) and then they would basically swarm any synapse creatures they could attack without serious casualties. Also, I reckon the facehuggers wouldnt have much of a problem implanting a host. By nature nid organisms survive if you cut off a couple of limbs, and it only takes one synapse creature to be captured and we have potential alien invasion of nid synapse.

Then you would have termagants with flesh borers, reacting to the call of any alien/nid hybrids, and the alien queen.

There coming out of the walls! Game over man! Game Over! ;)

comicshorse

2010-03-16, 09:06 PM

This is gonna get locked so fast

Teron

2010-03-16, 10:30 PM

It is definately a hard battle.
No it's not. The tyranids have creatures that can charge a futuristic tank, shrug off its fire, and tear it appart by hand; swarms of flying creatures with guns; and millions of "infantry" -- all insertable from orbit, and with perfect discipline enforced by creatures that can withstand rocket-propelled, armour-piercing grenades, output comparable or superior firepower, and fry enemies' brains. The xenomorphs are so far out of their league it's laughable; the tyranids will eat them all and find nothing worth copying. The only reason xenomorphs ever win is because they catch small groups of unprepared humans or voluntarily handicapped predators in cramped quarters, while the tyranids conquer planets defended by over the top sci-fi armies.

They have a psychic link with their queens, which would feasibly provide some defence from the hive minds ability to call warp storms and wreak general psychic havok.
There's no evidence of that. Control does not imply protection, especially greater protection than the 'nids themselves can manage against psychic attacks, being powerful psykers in a universe full of dangerous psykers.

Also, as stated about the nids hive mind, their synapse may even be vulnerable to the alien queens call.
There's no reason to expect compatibility in that regard, unless xenomorph queens have been known to control other species. On the contrary, the overwhelming presence of the 'nid hive mind messes with other species' psykers; often, that happening to an entire planet is the first sign that the 'nids are coming.

But, it would take time for the DNA to be properly analysed by the nid queens. We are talking about a species just as biologically complex as the tyranids.
Doesn't matter. The xenomorphs don't have anything the 'nids don't do better. Unoriginal though they may be, even the genestealers are far better at what they do, whether it's infiltrating unsuspecting societies or opening space marines like tin cans.

Now the aliens, the aliens would sacrifice a couple of drones figuring out the tyranids weaknesses (synapse) and then they would basically swarm any synapse creatures they could attack without serious casualties.
Even if the xenomorphs somehow find a synapse creature that's not surrounded by hordes of 'nids and capture it, the 'nids will know where it is and hit that location with everything I described above before an embryo can gestate. And even if a "synapse xenomorph" reaches maturity, it would be useless against the greater 'nid hive mind and, if anything, fall under its control.

Deca

2010-03-17, 04:44 AM

No it's not. The tyranids have creatures that can charge a futuristic tank, shrug off its fire, and tear it appart by hand; swarms of flying creatures with guns; and millions of "infantry" -- all insertable from orbit, and with perfect discipline enforced by creatures that can withstand rocket-propelled, armour-piercing grenades, output comparable or superior firepower, and fry enemies' brains. The xenomorphs are so far out of their league it's laughable; the tyranids will eat them all and find nothing worth copying. The only reason xenomorphs ever win is because they catch small groups of unprepared humans or voluntarily handicapped predators in cramped quarters, while the tyranids conquer planets defended by over the top sci-fi armies.

There's no evidence of that. Control does not imply protection, especially greater protection than the 'nids themselves can manage against psychic attacks, being powerful psykers in a universe full of dangerous psykers.

There's no reason to expect compatibility in that regard, unless xenomorph queens have been known to control other species. On the contrary, the overwhelming presence of the 'nid hive mind messes with other species' psykers; often, that happening to an entire planet is the first sign that the 'nids are coming.

Doesn't matter. The xenomorphs don't have anything the 'nids don't do better. Unoriginal though they may be, even the genestealers are far better at what they do, whether it's infiltrating unsuspecting societies or opening space marines like tin cans.

Even if the xenomorphs somehow find a synapse creature that's not surrounded by hordes of 'nids and capture it, the 'nids will know where it is and hit that location with everything I described above before an embryo can gestate. And even if a "synapse xenomorph" reaches maturity, it would be useless against the greater 'nid hive mind and, if anything, fall under its control.

Quoted For Truth. Their isn't really anything that Xenomorphs can do that Tyranids can't do in a greater scale.

Killer Angel

2010-03-17, 04:52 AM

Ripley will win. :smalltongue:

(anyway, my easy bet is on 'Nids)

Eldan

2010-03-17, 04:56 AM

So, Ripley, CIAPHAS CAIN and a predator walk into a bar...

Oslecamo

2010-03-17, 05:34 AM

No it's not. The tyranids have creatures that can charge a futuristic tank, shrug off its fire, and tear it appart by hand;

Aliens have melted armored battleships just by bleeding. And imperial tanks are hardly futuristic. They're basicaly WW I-II tanks with lots of skulls. Even traitor guardsmen laugh at them.

swarms of flying creatures with guns; and millions of "infantry" -- all insertable from orbit, and with perfect discipline enforced by creatures that can withstand rocket-propelled, armour-piercing grenades, output comparable or superior firepower, and fry enemies' brains.

Rocket-propelled, armour-piercing grenades that have trouble slowing the charge of unarmored walking soft funguses, since marines seem to always end up having to melee orks. Again, not saying much.

The xenomorphs are so far out of their league it's laughable; the tyranids will eat them all and find nothing worth copying. The only reason xenomorphs ever win is because they catch small groups of unprepared humans or voluntarily handicapped predators in cramped quarters, while the tyranids conquer planets defended by over the top sci-fi armies.

Correction, the nids win against the Imperium because they fight a fanatic enemy that refuses inovation and adaptation and is renowed for shooting down it's own forces.

Plus, 40K is not sci-fi. It's fantasy. Guardsmen are WW I soldiers using WW I tactics, like forcing trench wars of atriction and massive bayonet charges. Space Marines are knight templars charging with all kind of exotic melee weaponry with huge flags tied at their backs and bright colored armors, with tanks and bikes to help them get in melee faster instead of horses (altough the space wolves use cyborg wolves). Even against enemies specialized in melee combat. In space! There's also space ocs orks, elves eldars, zombies necrons, vampires C'tan, demons, ect, ect.

Aliens on the other hand fight actual sci-fi soldiers with stuff like portable nukes, powerfull multi-purposed weaponry. Aliens have all the reason to be carefull against them. Nids can afford frontal charges against the imperium because the imperial forces will charge back at them.

Doesn't matter. The xenomorphs don't have anything the 'nids don't do better. Unoriginal though they may be, even the genestealers are far better at what they do, whether it's infiltrating unsuspecting societies or
opening space marines like tin cans.

The marines that have been known to be shot down by medieval arrows and wooden lances in some ocasions? And again, not that hard to infiltrate a society that runs on sheer fanatism and punishes intelegence. "A small mind is easily filled with faith". "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

You know what hapened to a poor guardsmen who tried to report a group of Ork Kommandoz sneaking nearby? Executed by his own force for cowardice. Because the imperial dogma(not updated for several thousands of years) said orks would never use stealth and always charge in masse. And that's the military. Now imagine what would happen if a civilian tried to report nids sneaking in the city.

Even if the xenomorphs somehow find a synapse creature that's not surrounded by hordes of 'nids and capture it, the 'nids will know where it is and hit that location with everything I described above before an embryo can gestate. And even if a "synapse xenomorph" reaches maturity, it would be useless against the greater 'nid hive mind and, if anything, fall under its control.

Some imperial "heretics" have performed experiences with captured nids to find out their weak points, and when not killed by the inquisition, the nids didn't exactly come bursting trough the doors to stop their job.

Plus nid ships are renowed for being extra slow.

Deca

2010-03-17, 05:58 AM

I would like to hear how Xenomorphs match up against a Bio-Titan, Carnifex or Zoanthrope.

Simply put, they don't. At all.

Deca

2010-03-17, 06:14 AM

Aliens have melted armored battleships just by bleeding. And imperial tanks are hardly futuristic. They're basicaly WW I-II tanks with lots of skulls. Even traitor guardsmen laugh at them.

Yep. Ceramite armoured tanks that can fire lasers, clearly WWI-II standard issue.

Rocket-propelled, armour-piercing grenades that have trouble slowing the charge of unarmored walking soft funguses, since marines seem to always end up having to melee orks. Again, not saying much.

Well actually, a bolter can mess up an Ork pretty badly. And if it doesn't, that hardly means the bolter is weak. Orks are just that tough. Also latent psykers.

Correction, the nids win against the Imperium because they fight a fanatic enemy that refuses inovation and adaptation and is renowed for shooting down it's own forces.

Are you suggesting that Xenomorphs would do better? Imperials encounter Xenomorphs, Imperials blast the planet the Xenomorph's are sitting on. You know what would be an advantage for Xenomorphs? Actual technology of any kind.

Plus, 40K is not sci-fi. It's fantasy. Guardsmen are WW I soldiers using WW I tactics, like forcing trench wars of atriction and massive bayonet charges. Space Marines are knight templars charging with all kind of exotic melee weaponry with huge flags tied at their backs and bright colored armors, with tanks and bikes to help them get in melee faster instead of horses (altough the space wolves use cyborg wolves). Even against enemies specialized in melee combat. In space! There's also space ocs orks, elves eldars, zombies necrons, vampires C'tan, demons, ect, ect.

Aliens on the other hand fight actual sci-fi soldiers with stuff like portable nukes, powerfull multi-purposed weaponry. Aliens have all the reason to be carefull against them. Nids can afford frontal charges against the imperium because the imperial forces will charge back at them.

Technically sci-fi/fantasy but call it what you will. And yes, clearly Imperial Guard always charge the Nids. It's not like they regularly use artillery or tanks. Oh wait...

The marines that have been known to be shot down by medieval arrows and wooden lances in some ocasions? And again, not that hard to infiltrate a society that runs on sheer fanatism and punishes intelegence. "A small mind is easily filled with faith". "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

You know what hapened to a poor guardsmen who tried to report a group of Ork Kommandoz sneaking nearby? Executed by his own force for cowardice. Because the imperial dogma(not updated for several thousands of years) said orks would never use stealth and always charge in masse. And that's the military. Now imagine what would happen if a civilian tried to report nids sneaking in the city.

I would really like to know how you think an armoured Marine can be killed by arrows or wooden lances. And I would imagine that the civilian's report would actually sound an alarm and once proven, a call for distress. Civilians dont get executed for cowardice.
Also, I find your Guardsmen example incredibly iffy as there are numerous fluff and codex sources that talk of entire specialised squads of Guardsmen who's job is to infiltrate and report enemy positions. Clearly, they are all executed once they return from their missions.

Some imperial "heretics" have performed experiences with captured nids to find out their weak points, and when not killed by the inquisition, the nids didn't exactly come bursting trough the doors to stop their job.
Usually because they perform the experiments away from the planet the Nids are invading. There is a limit on their psychic senses.

Plus nid ships are renowed for being extra slow.

Can't argue with this point. Tyranid ships are clearly slower than Xenomorph ships and...wait. Xenomorphs don't have ships. Slow world-scouring behemoths are better than no world-scouring behemoths at all.

Oslecamo

2010-03-17, 07:01 AM

Yep. Ceramite armoured tanks that can fire lasers, clearly WWI-II standard issue.

Lasguns are tecnically laser weapons, yet they hit as hard as regular rifles.

Well actually, a bolter can mess up an Ork pretty badly. And if it doesn't, that hardly means the bolter is weak. Orks are just that tough. Also latent psykers.

By that logic, I could argue that the nids are only stomping on the imperium because the orks think it is funny and thus the WWWAAAGHHH did it.:smalltongue:

Are you suggesting that Xenomorphs would do better? Imperials encounter Xenomorphs, Imperials blast the planet the Xenomorph's are sitting on.
Just like they blast orks from space? Nah, they blast only after sending several regiments to the meatgrinder, giving the aliens plenty of oportunities to catch a lift. That's how stealers get around as well.

You know what would be an advantage for Xenomorphs? Actual technology of any kind.

Fair point, but hey, if they can get hold of a single ork and their WWWAAAGHHH!!!! ability to make technology out of anything....:smallbiggrin:

Technically sci-fi/fantasy but call it what you will. And yes, clearly Imperial Guard always charge the Nids. It's not like they regularly use artillery or tanks. Oh wait...

Of course they do. They just seem to have horrible aim as the guardsmen end up having to charge anyway.

Also, sci-fi societies don't use mainly 10.000 year old weapons and tactics, as they're, well, suposed to always be inovating and developing new weapons. The only race that could actualy be called sci-fi in 40K are the Tau.

I would really like to know how you think an armoured Marine can be killed by arrows or wooden lances.

Clearly those armors have some big open joints. Being 8 foot tall means having more blind spots. Also, helmetless marines.

And I would imagine that the civilian's report would actually sound an alarm and once proven, a call for distress. Civilians dont get executed for cowardice.
Also, I find your Guardsmen example incredibly iffy as there are numerous fluff and codex sources that talk of entire specialised squads of Guardsmen who's job is to infiltrate and report enemy positions. Clearly, they are all executed once they return from their missions.

My example is from the ork codex.

In the Witch hunters codex, an entire regiment is indeed sentenced to death after finding out a chaos cult for fear of corruption. Mass sterelization is a standard for any city attacked by chaos.

Like they say, you either die by refusing to join the Imperial Guard, or die by joining the Imperial guard. Over the top Grimdarkness and everything.

Usually because they perform the experiments away from the planet the Nids are invading. There is a limit on their psychic senses.

Just to make that clear.

Can't argue with this point. Tyranid ships are clearly slower than Xenomorph ships and...wait. Xenomorphs don't have ships. Slow world-scouring behemoths are better than no world-scouring behemoths at all.
Fair point. Notice I didn't said that the aliens would win, just that the nids were being described as too way over the top. After all, even in their own universe aliens are reduced to toy status by humies and predators.

Killer Angel

2010-03-17, 07:15 AM

Clearly those armors have some big open joints. Being 8 foot tall means having more blind spots. Also, helmetless marines.

I think Deca don't know the fluff you're referring to (sounds like his was a request of "citation needed")

Eldan

2010-03-17, 08:30 AM

It's an example that gets thrown around a lot, usually not to point out how weak marines are, but to show how stupid the Black Library can be. At least one book is set on a feudal planet with medieval tech level, where marines are killed by being ambushed by archers and charged by knights. I haven't read the book in question, but it seems to be one of the worst examples of bad writing and should hardly be counted as canon.

Kyouhen

2010-03-17, 10:37 AM

This battle really is severely one-sided. The Xenos came first, but the 'nids were made as infinitely bigger and meaner Xenos to exist in a universe where things like Exterminatus is common.

The Xenos would learn the 'nid tactics, and would avoid any head-on battles where they would simply be swarmed. They're smart, I'll give them that. The problem is by the mid-to-end portion of the war the 'nids will no longer be concerned by tactics and just throw as many troops at the Xenos as are needed to wipe them out.

As for the Xenos facehugging a 'nid, that raises the question of just how facehuggers work. Most 'nids bigger than a Ripper don't have a digestive system. They have mouths for biting and nothing else. Even if facehuggers can implant a chestburster into their throats, it wouldn't take long for the Hive Mind to simply evolve an army with no throats at all. In fact, against the Xenos the 'nids would probably be able to win without mouths too. Xenos can't facehug, their numbers are limited, Tyranids win.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-17, 12:41 PM

As for the Xenos facehugging a 'nid, that raises the question of just how facehuggers work. Most 'nids bigger than a Ripper don't have a digestive system. They have mouths for biting and nothing else. Even if facehuggers can implant a chestburster into their throats, it wouldn't take long for the Hive Mind to simply evolve an army with no throats at all. In fact, against the Xenos the 'nids would probably be able to win without mouths too. Xenos can't facehug, their numbers are limited, Tyranids win.
Even if they do get facehugged, it's not like tyranids have anything like a sense of self-preservation. They're just going to kill the facehugger and throw the thing and the now-dead tyranid it was attached to into the nearest reclaimation pool.

Seriously, the nids operate on an entirely different scale than the xenomorphs. Tyranids strip an entire planet of all organic material, drink the atmosphere, and then move on. As previously pointed out, they fight the best soldiers in existence in a grimdark over 9000 setting, and win as often as they lose. A less-numerous and weaker version of themselves? Not even an interesting diversion. Xenomorphs would lose to guardsmen, let alone something like Space Marines or Tyranids.

chiasaur11

2010-03-17, 12:51 PM

Even if they do get facehugged, it's not like tyranids have anything like a sense of self-preservation. They're just going to kill the facehugger and throw the thing and the now-dead tyranid it was attached to into the nearest reclaimation pool.

Seriously, the nids operate on an entirely different scale than the xenomorphs. Tyranids strip an entire planet of all organic material, drink the atmosphere, and then move on. As previously pointed out, they fight the best soldiers in existence in a grimdark over 9000 setting, and win as often as they lose. A less-numerous and weaker version of themselves? Not even an interesting diversion. Xenomorphs would lose to guardsmen, let alone something like Space Marines or Tyranids.

Yup.

I mean, average guard unit, average batch of colonial marines?

Fair fight, at worst for the IG.

Average full strength, prepared batch of CMs versus a Xenomorph hives? Judging from "Aliens" it'd be the kind of victory you show in the propaganda movies. Only reason they lost was really bad luck. And Burke.

And Gorman.

And the sequel director being an ass to the characters.

Texas_Ben

2010-03-17, 01:07 PM

Yup.

I mean, average guard unit, average batch of colonial marines?

Fair fight, at worst for the IG.

Average full strength, prepared batch of CMs versus a Xenomorph hives? Judging from "Aliens" it'd be the kind of victory you show in the propaganda movies. Only reason they lost was really bad luck. And Burke.

And Gorman.

And the sequel director being an ass to the characters.
That was also just one squad. IG come in regiments. IG are also used to (in the case of seasoned troops) or at least expecting to run into horrible aliens of death and destruction, and have doctrines in place to fight them. So they're going to fare better than colonial marines agains xenomorphs.

Keshay

2010-03-17, 02:05 PM

Wow, a 2 year necropost... That has to be a record of some kind.
I mean, what page must it have been on?

The Glyphstone

2010-03-17, 02:07 PM

Really...how do people find these threads?

Zen Monkey

2010-03-17, 02:21 PM

warty goblin

2010-03-17, 03:11 PM

Anything vs. WH40K gets ridiculous, because of the absurd scale used in the warhammer descriptions. Of course the Tyranids win, because the are eleventy quadjillion of them (real numbers just aren't grim and dark enough) and each one can eat a quinthousand marines per hour and marines can each take on many tribez ofz orkz who are each powerful enough to eat suns.

Any sci-fi attempting small scale or realism will always lose to the world of super-overstatement.

While I fully agree that most of WH40K is ridiculous, I think that has more to do with it's general scorn of anything resembling physics than it does the numbers. Once you have a couple thousand worlds, your production numbers become, pardon the pun, astronomical. Really, once you decide that FTL is possible, and human habitable worlds are reasonably dense, assuming anything but insane numbers would be unrealistic.

Killer Angel

2010-03-17, 03:38 PM

Wow, a 2 year necropost... That has to be a record of some kind.

It's a close second: this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57014&page=9) won (look at the date between posts 262 and 263)... :smallwink:

Bouregard

2010-03-18, 02:37 PM

I admitt that I don't know much about Xenomorphs. but what good will it do them to take over ANY Tyranids? Fine you control now the biggest, baddest organism in the swarm. Tyranids kill it instantly = How exactly do you want to evolve with that knowledge/breed? When you're fighting against Tyranids... well you won't encounter single enemies. Those guys breed minions without a digestive system to swarm an enemy. Tyranids are the definition of expendable. You kill a whole Tyranid fleet? Fine, next one will arrive monday. As long as a TINY bit slips away you have to kill the swarm again as soon as he stopped feeding/rebuilding on less defended worlds.

Algerin

2010-03-18, 06:33 PM

Lets not be silly guys!

Look, Xenomorphs were set in the 2000's somewhere, If I'm not mistaken?

Tryanids are in the year 40,000.

This is what happened.

Xenomorphs developed new forms and eventually spaceships. They flew off in a thousand directions to conquer new galaxies and hosts.

A couple ten thousand years later, they returned with new forms and highly, highly evolved.

Problem solved.

Graymayre

2010-03-18, 06:40 PM

These guys win

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/110966/thzergani1.gif

Texas_Ben

2010-03-18, 08:55 PM

These guys win

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/110966/thzergani1.gif

If the Tyranids are the Xenomorphs expanded into a spacefaring race with the power level turned over9000, then the zerg are the tyranids with the power dialed back to reasonable levels.

Tyranids > Zergs > Xenomorphs.

Although Zergs vs. Tyranids would actually make for a decent vs. Thread.

This thread is now about Zergs vs. Tyranids.

warty goblin

2010-03-18, 09:04 PM

If the Tyranids are the Xenomorphs expanded into a spacefaring race with the power level turned over9000, then the zerg are the tyranids with the power dialed back to reasonable levels.

Tyranids > Zergs > Xenomorphs.

Although Zergs vs. Tyranids would actually make for a decent vs. Thread.

This thread is now about Zergs vs. Tyranids.

We've done that one. I recall the most popular outcome was the two races essentially merged, and then everyone else got eaten.

Deca

2010-03-19, 06:47 PM

We've done that one. I recall the most popular outcome was the two races essentially merged, and then everyone else got eaten.

Why would the Tyranids bother merging with the Zerg? What do the Zerg have that the Tyranids would want?

Kris Strife

2010-03-19, 08:15 PM

Why would the Tyranids bother merging with the Zerg? What do the Zerg have that the Tyranids would want?

Well, the Overmind has got the groove.

Tavar

2010-03-19, 08:18 PM

Why would the Tyranids bother merging with the Zerg? What do the Zerg have that the Tyranids would want?

Longer distance hivemind? I mean, the Tyranids can only work on the scale of a solar system, and even then often only when cynapse creatures can relay the signal. Zerg can communicate between solar systems, and while it's possible overloads are needed to boost the signal, they apparently only have to be on the same planet. All together much better.

Deca

2010-03-19, 10:08 PM

Longer distance hivemind? I mean, the Tyranids can only work on the scale of a solar system, and even then often only when cynapse creatures can relay the signal. Zerg can communicate between solar systems, and while it's possible overloads are needed to boost the signal, they apparently only have to be on the same planet. All together much better.

I see your point.
What I was saying was that Zerg and Tyranids are so similiar that it seemed that they had nothing that they didn't already have. I forgot about the Overmind.

Although...there is a bit of debate on whether each fleet is governed by a seperate Hive Mind or if the entire species is controlled by a single Mind. has that ever been clearly resolved?

Graymayre

2010-03-19, 10:47 PM

I see your point.
What I was saying was that Zerg and Tyranids are so similiar that it seemed that they had nothing that they didn't already have. I forgot about the Overmind.

Although...there is a bit of debate on whether each fleet is governed by a seperate Hive Mind or if the entire species is controlled by a single Mind. has that ever been clearly resolved?

Now I'm wondering who would win between the Buggers and the Tyranids...

Tavar

2010-03-19, 10:49 PM

Now I'm wondering who would win between the Buggers and the Tyranids...

Buggers are constrained by Lightspeed and have weaponry that's on the level of nukes.
...
...
No contest.

Graymayre

2010-03-19, 10:52 PM

Buggers are constrained by Lightspeed and have weaponry that's on the level of nukes.
...
...
No contest.

That's if they were in the 40k world. Would not the Buggers have access to 40k tech if they lived in its world?

Deca

2010-03-19, 10:54 PM

That's if they were in the 40k world. Would not the Buggers have access to 40k tech if they lived in its world?

If they were on the same Tech level as the Tyranids? I'd still pick the Tyranids due to their psyker powers and of course, massive sheer weight of numbers.

Tavar

2010-03-19, 10:54 PM

That's if they were in the 40k world. Would not the Buggers have access to 40k tech if they lived in its world?

That's not really how vs. threads generally work, mostly because at that point it's impossible to tell. Too many variables.

chiasaur11

2010-03-19, 11:03 PM

That's if they were in the 40k world. Would not the Buggers have access to 40k tech if they lived in its world?

Hey, here I invoke the wisdom of the past.

"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and you ain't the man!"

To get 40k tech, you'd need to survive long enough to get it, and that ain't happening.

Innis Cabal

2010-03-20, 12:24 AM

Longer distance hivemind? I mean, the Tyranids can only work on the scale of a solar system, and even then often only when cynapse creatures can relay the signal. Zerg can communicate between solar systems, and while it's possible overloads are needed to boost the signal, they apparently only have to be on the same planet. All together much better.

Except the entirity of the Tyranid force span's beyond the known Galaxy. The entire force is a single mind. So none of this really holds true. Each Fleet is akin to an appendage. So, there has to be come central "synaspe" creature at the very heart of the race...some massive bio...god...which really is the only thing it could be likened to if its Warp Presence could reflect its power.

Tavar

2010-03-20, 12:57 AM

Innis Cabal

2010-03-20, 01:06 AM

I was speaking more about the synapse. I mean, if you put a zerg in another solar system, well, then it's still guided by the hive mind. Put a Tryanid a similar distance away, or even just one a planet while the fleet's in orbit, and unless there's a synapse creature around then they're just animals.

The same can be said for the Zerg though. Cerabretes keep them in line. Without them to channel the psychic energy of the Overmind, they're just the same as gaunts. If not worse off because at least a guant has some nasty weapons other then the claws and biting.

Tavar

2010-03-20, 01:09 AM

The same can be said for the Zerg though. Cerabretes keep them in line. Without them to channel the psychic energy of the Overmind, they're just the same as gaunts. If not worse off because at least a guant has some nasty weapons other then the claws and biting.

Right, but from the lore it seems that they can be much farther from a cerabrete and still gain the benefits.

SlyGuyMcFly

2010-03-20, 07:04 AM

Except the entirity of the Tyranid force span's beyond the known Galaxy. The entire force is a single mind. So none of this really holds true. Each Fleet is akin to an appendage. So, there has to be come central "synaspe" creature at the very heart of the race...some massive bio...god...which really is the only thing it could be likened to if its Warp Presence could reflect its power.

I've always understood the Tyranid's Hive Mind to be more akin to a modern super-computer. A thousand million billion minds working in concert to produce something unimaginably greater than the sum of it's parts. Synapse is what keeps those minds linked to the rest of the 'net. Break the link and you have nothing but what the individual's mind can produce. Animalistic intelligence in the case of gaunts, human-level (or slightly higher) in the case of Gene-stealers.

But I don't know if any post-3rd Ed. fluff contradicts that view now.

Right, but from the lore it seems that they can be much farther from a cerabrete and still gain the benefits.

Don't the Zerg use those big floaty buggers (sorry, forgot the name) as a sort of relay sub-station for the psychic link to the Cerebrates?

Texas_Ben

2010-03-20, 10:13 AM

Right, but from the lore it seems that they can be much farther from a cerabrete and still gain the benefits.

Not really. I mean the only way they were even able to invade Aiur was by moving the overmind itself there. We can't really tell about the human worlds, but from the expansion it would seem that anywhere there is a sizeable zerg presence, there is at least one cerebrate. Also the zerg require Overlords and Queens to maintain fine control over the swarm. The zerg are much more heirarchal than the tyranids. The overmind doesn't exert direct control over the swarm; The overmind relays orders through his cerebrates, which then further relay orders to individual units via the overlords. Although they are all one with the overmind, the cerebrates seem to have some measure of personality and capability for independant thought, whereas it would seem to me that all Tyranids are simply pieces of the greater whole, with the synapse creatures simply acting as relays.

Anyways, depends on the strain, but a zergling and a gaunt will both be equally screwed if far removed from support. An overlord would probably do okay.

The Glyphstone

2010-03-20, 10:28 AM

Not really. I mean the only way they were even able to invade Aiur was by moving the overmind itself there. We can't really tell about the human worlds, but from the expansion it would seem that anywhere there is a sizeable zerg presence, there is at least one cerebrate. Also the zerg require Overlords and Queens to maintain fine control over the swarm. The zerg are much more heirarchal than the tyranids. The overmind doesn't exert direct control over the swarm; The overmind relays orders through his cerebrates, which then further relay orders to individual units via the overlords. Although they are all one with the overmind, the cerebrates seem to have some measure of personality and capability for independant thought, whereas it would seem to me that all Tyranids are simply pieces of the greater whole, with the synapse creatures simply acting as relays.

Anyways, depends on the strain, but a zergling and a gaunt will both be equally screwed if far removed from support. An overlord would probably do okay.

The cerebrates are a likely possibility in terms of being a necessary control node, though we have the complicating factor of Zerg Mission 7, where one cerebrate (Zasz) was slain and left his entire brood rampaging uncontrolled, so another cerebrate (You) were forced to exterminate them instead of just re-restablish control. So, there's more to the system than 'just have a cerebrate handy'.

As for Aiur, I think you've got it backwards. The invasion came first, before the Overmind manifested - they invaded because Overmind wanted Aiur to be its birthplace, they didn't invade because it had landed there. Spawning a physical Overmind was risky and unncessary (and turned out to be a bad idea, but it couldn't have predicted that).

Texas_Ben

2010-03-20, 10:42 AM

The cerebrates are a likely possibility in terms of being a necessary control node, though we have the complicating factor of Zerg Mission 7, where one cerebrate (Zasz) was slain and left his entire brood rampaging uncontrolled, so another cerebrate (You) were forced to exterminate them instead of just re-restablish control. So, there's more to the system than 'just have a cerebrate handy'.
That was a special case, though, in which a cerebrate was actually utterly and completely destroyed. Such a thing had never happened before, and it's likely that it affected the zerg under his control in some way. Remember, when zasz was slain, it caused the overmind itself to go into remission for a period of time, so I imagine that his death managed to completely burn out the part of the zerg's brains responsible for receiveing psychic commands. This seems likely because later on in the expansion, kerrigan is able to establish command over zerg which are running amok without leadership.

As for Aiur, I think you've got it backwards. The invasion came first, before the Overmind manifested - they invaded because Overmind wanted Aiur to be its birthplace, they didn't invade because it had landed there. Spawning a physical Overmind was risky and unncessary (and turned out to be a bad idea, but it couldn't have predicted that).
The invasion only began in earnest after the overmind's landing. It's not like the overmind didn't have physical form before, I'm pretty sure the zerg origin story in the manual mentions it. I think that it's rather the overmind, like the cerebrates, can only maintain physical form in one location at once, although it is capable of being completely incorporeal.

Ravens_cry

2010-03-20, 12:08 PM

Tyranids are rip offs of Xenomorphs, and Zerg are rip offs of Tyrnaids.
Of course, since everything in Warhammer must be OVER nine FORTY THOUSAND, of course the 'Nids win.

GoC

2010-03-20, 12:56 PM

Nids have no air for some reason((Eventually, killing the Aliens will just wipe the Nids out due to Acid. Hell, it's dissolve the planet eventually!!
-_-sobsobsob

Aku

2014-09-07, 10:19 AM

So here I'm going to lay it out.

Tyranids: a swarm of blood thirsty xenos from beyond the galaxies, destroy entire worlds without even blinking, drifring along through space in giant hive fleets, block out/destroy all forms of psikic (not sure if that's spelt right) powers/beings. Have about human intelligence outside of their hivemind's influence and evolve very quickly.

Xenomorphs: stealthy aliens that reproduce by having facehuggers facehug creatures and insert eggs down their prey's throat. Eggs hatch soon after and baby xenimorph pops out of chest. Get around by hiding on space ships. I've heard they supposedly have the intelligence of a dog outside of their hive mind's influence. They evolve as fast as they're being born.

So considering the fact that Aliens don't have ships, I'm assuming that the 'Nids are on the offensive. Let's say the Aliens wrecked earth and now their just sitting and waiting. Then the 'Nids come, full swing.

I've heard lots about Aliens with guns being the product of facehugged 'Nids. No. The gun and the 'Nid are two different beings. To get the gun, you facehug the gun. Good luck face hugging the barrel of a gun and succeeding.

Acid blood? The 'Nids already got that. Hive tyrants have acid blood and I'm pretty sure that they also have an immunity somewhere in their endless bag of tricks. If not, the Hive mind would adapt. Heck, it adapted their carapaces to be energy weapon resistant at one point.

Most 'Nids have some kind of mouth weapon. So if facehugged, if they do, they use it. If not, I'm pretty sure they'd just bite it off.

Okay, I'm not crapping on the Aliens(for now), I'm going on start on the Tyranids.

The Xenomorph reproduction cycle is (generally) faster than that of the Tyranids. Someone gets facehugged, a few minutes later, baby Alien!

Aliens are very stealthy. If worst came to worst, they could probably be able to hide well enough. Or sneak attack the crap out of the Tyranids.

Their acid blood could still be useful. Melting crap during a sneak attack (walls, doors...), melting Tyranid projectiles and plenty of other stuff.

comparisons.
Tyranids biggest creature: Bioships
Xenomorph biggest creature: Facehugged whale
Tyranids smallest: Rippers (technically viruses, diseases, parasites and what not, but they don't count!)
Alien smallest: Facehugger (or baby Xenomorph, but that doesn't count as it's not fully developed)
Tyranidss most psikically receptive: Swarmlord or Norn Queen or Zoanthrope.
Xenomorph most psikically receptive: Queen
Average Tyranid survivability: Exterminatus

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=-XMMVIC8DOKDjALZ8YDgBg&url=http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Exterminatus&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFBpoG-GqxTC03_xrKBLFxoBiQkOA&sig2=ZJQJBm5RDHbjYofI4b3ZxQ
(Sorry for all this but my tablet doesn't copy and paste very well)

Average Alien survivability: a few pistol shots to the face (from very close range) or bazooka from 125m

It is my opinion that the 'Nids would wreck the Aliens. Living flamethrowers, awesome psikic powers, sheer numbers, survivability, ORBITAL SUPPORT, sheer size, ranged weapons, the Aliens have everything against them. The Tyranids would drift away, as with any other planet, except this time, able to use Face huggers!