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View Full Version : What's your favorite level range in 3.5?



icthius
2008-01-05, 08:48 PM
In my groups, I've played in campaigns that start at almost every level. Some games last from 1-20, others are one shots, and still others have the players at level 5 or 6 when they get bored and stop playing. Each level range has different advantages and drawbacks.

I think that level 6 is the point at which you start becoming very independant and original and opening the option of epic battles, while leaving the mundane challenges still an option.

12 really showcases each person's individuality and neat abilities, but doesn't leave much options for things to be challenging unless they're extremely out of the ordinary.

20 is the goofball level that I love. You get to go wild with whatever you've built and really flex your D&D muscles. Unfortunately, most players can make a game-breaking character with thier eyes closed, so it makes it good for a one-shot, but not for a full campaign.

Howabout you guys?

Xefas
2008-01-05, 09:02 PM
Level 6-10, I think.

As far as my group goes, it seems like power fluctuates the most in the 1-5 and 16-20 areas. Someone who doesn't optimize themself for 1-5 is very much in danger of getting slaughtering by a single mildly unlikely die-roll without them being able to do anything about it. Conversely, even optimizing a little in that range generally means everything level-appropriate is going down in one shot.

The same goes for 16-20, only the range is even larger. You're either unoptimized and at risk of dieing in 40 unique flavors of pain each and every round of combat, or you're optimized to some degree and the question ceases to be "How do we win this encounter?" and becomes "Why not just destroy the planet the encounter is on and call it a win?".

Which leaves 6-15, and the higher end of that (11-15) takes a really long time to pick out equipment, so level 6-10 it is.

(This is just what I've observed with my specific group in the recent past. It shouldn't be taken as a blanket statement about level ranges.)

Reinboom
2008-01-05, 09:07 PM
I like the 8-14 range, though, would prefer to be playing the character starting from 6 rather than later.
I love casters, and I adore a bit of power, yet I can't stand 9th level, or even to some extent 8th level, spells that much. They just do too much.
The 6-12 region also tends to be the most balanced, yet still decently high powered, and offers a lot of resources to do nifty things with your character.

Archangel Yuki
2008-01-05, 10:17 PM
Well, I enjoy levels 12-15, because even with game breaking characters I find ways to challenge them. I make them use their "I kill everything one way" characters in a different way. Makes em really uncomfortable.

Archangel Yuki
2008-01-05, 10:21 PM
Laggy double Post, Sorry.

North
2008-01-05, 10:32 PM
I must confess a fondness for the lower levels. 3+ really. Course thats also because Im still fuzzy on a lot of rules never having a chance to actually use them.

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-05, 10:38 PM
I prefer the 8-12 level range for the end of the campaign. The best games I've been in started at 4th or 5th level, and ended in the 8-12 level range.


I prefer to run games that start at 2nd level, run a year/year-and-a-half, and end at 21st level.

rankrath
2008-01-05, 10:46 PM
I prefer 5-12, as five makes everyone useful while still presenting danger and a chance to use "classic" monsters such as ogers, trolls, ect, and twelve lets the casters use some of the better spells while not totally outclassing the meat shields.

MammonAzrael
2008-01-06, 12:31 AM
My friends always start their campaigns at lv 1 or 2, and I've never actually gotten to play past lv 10. >_< So, my enjoyment of the 6-10 lvs might be a little biased.

shadowdemon_lord
2008-01-06, 01:00 AM
I like the levels 5-10 range. Here is where D&D works like it's supposed to. The fighters tank, the wizards play support, the clerics are generally better off buffing healing and playing back up fighter, rogues can still be scouts, infiltrators, and skill monkeys without being totally outclassed by a wizard, the wizard is generally better off buffing, battlefield controlling, blasting, debuffing, and using utility spells and can't yet godmode. Save bonuses are generally high enough that you have a fair chance of making your primary save(s), and okay chances of making your others. It's still easier to kill a fighter by knocking down his HP's then level draining him out of existence, sundering everything on his body, draining his stats, etc. Save or die effects are at a minimum here, and the ones that do exist are fairly weak. Fighters have a high enough to hit bonus that they have a reasonable chance of hitting. Weapons aside from the spiked chain and falchion seem like viable weapons for a two handed meleer. Druids of course are disgustingly powerful over this level range, but hey they basically always are past level 6.

Basically what I'm saying is that this is where the game is most balanced, and where (barring Cheesy McCheester the Cheeseweasel playing with you) classes do what they are supposed to and it's kind of hard to build a totally game breaking character. The reason I stop at level ten is because after that point fighterey types have to start breaking the game to stay effective (by say building characters that will power attack for full and hit 6 times out of 6 attacks (in one round) against an AC of 28 at level 12 (true story)). Before you all start hypothesizing how I did that, I was hasted (boots of speed), got an AoO on one that bull rushed my buddy into the water, and got off a cleave attack).

LibraryOgre
2008-01-06, 03:46 AM
E6 .

KIDS
2008-01-06, 06:43 AM
I usually start at level 1, pretty much all the time, but my favorite levels are 5-12; enough options for everyone to reach his desired character, fairly well balanced, open to all kind of adventures and monsters.

Emperor Demonking
2008-01-06, 07:13 AM
3-6 as they're simpler and classes are more balanced but mostly because its simpler.

Swooper
2008-01-06, 07:14 AM
5-20 for me I think. My group likes long campaigns that go from 1-20+, and in the first few levels the characters are a bit too fragile, with very few spells to go round (whether they're used for command, sleep, grease and ray of enfeeblement or cure light wounds, random action, burning hands and magic missile). After the casters get access to some decent firepower in the form of 3rd level spells and the fighters can start both dealing and taking respectable amounts of damage, the fun part begins.

Curmudgeon
2008-01-06, 12:48 PM
14 and up, into the low Epic levels.

Jerthanis
2008-01-06, 01:53 PM
I am all about levels 2-9/10. At level 2 you're a fairly normal individual with some training... you can be each half of your multiclass if you're multiclassing, you've got the HP to survive a single lucky sword swing, though you might not have consciousness unless you're fairly tough. Basically, at this level you're not quite the Ronin Warriors as of the first episode, where you've got to team up to even survive against the weakest of the enemies lowest mooks... but you're pretty close. Then by level 9/10 you're not nearly Ronin Warriors as of the last episode, when Dark Gods run and hide because you're too awesome, and entire armies attack you en masse without the merest hope of success... that's more like level 20. But you're still pretty much Superheroes at level 9/10ish. 90% of the balance issues in D&D don't come up in this level spread.

Efil
2008-01-06, 02:20 PM
I like the levels 4-8 because you are still mortal in those levels without being a pushover.

ealan
2008-01-06, 03:14 PM
I like lvl 1-3 because all character development starts there, a campaign run from lvl 1 on to higher levels can determine how your character acts and thinks in those first 3 lvls, and in those first few lvls you see most of the roleplaying and the biggest failures and the most amazing successes.

On the other hand I like level 9-12 because of the balance of the game, everyone seems to be on the same lvl and can equally participate.

15-20 are cool only in a world where optimization isn't possible, where feats must be learned when you lvl and spells copied from known sources. With a strict campaign where things are more real life, you just don't instantly know something and you need someone to teach you, so you are limited to the things you can do, everyone is to one point or another.

But give me a short campaign and let me bash around for a few lvls give me 5-6 the possibilities are there and the threats are still challenging.

bosssmiley
2008-01-06, 04:50 PM
3rd to 12th, and I think that's at least partially the old edition player in me talking...

Third level characters (generally) don't crumple at a single blow/spell/trap, so the players who care about their characters' survival (the best kind) will start to take a few more risks with them. The level 3 feat and skill points also begin to differentiate the characters mechanically from their 1st level chassis; you can begin to see the direction the player wants to develop their character long-term.

Twelfth level is probably - IMO - the sweet spot for D&D3.5 (OOTS agrees with me :smallwink: ). No access to limited wish and the like, but the characters are still big and tough enough to take on (almost) anything in the game. Sure, they still have to tiptoe around the machinations of the really big (CR18-20) bads, but the PCs can have a substantial effect on the gameworld through personal clout and social position.

By 12th the PCs are probably pretty high in their affiliations, have enough resources to bounce back from severe setbacks, and are likely getting along nicely in their first (or maybe second) PrC. The stacked bonuses aren't yet off the d20, the spells/day aren't in crazytown for another couple of levels, and the monk, rogue and fighter aren't quite hobbling along using their magic items as crutches for their sub-par class features.

Yep, 12th level: it's all gravy. :smallcool:

Epic? Tried it a couple of times; it was just pure Sparta. :smalleek:

osyluth
2008-01-06, 06:05 PM
Levels 1-5. This is were I, as a DM, can still claim that D&D is fairly realistic.

Talya
2008-01-06, 06:53 PM
Probably 10-16...prior to level 9 spells making every encounter a fireworks display, but into it enough that you have almost all your major class features (and possibly maxed out a PrC as well.)

Yeril
2008-01-06, 07:22 PM
6-12 I like.

Because in my opinion thats where almost everyone is competent yet not overpowered.

spellcasters start getting good amounts of spells/day, and good decent spells, Fighter types get that step into 2 attacks, and of course PRC's start opening up for people.

Witch
2008-01-06, 07:36 PM
Epic. Though I'm not particularly a fan of the mechanics. Planar roleplaying is what I like to go for, and you're simply not a big planar player until you're epic.

Tormsskull
2008-01-07, 07:01 AM
1-10 I guess. I enjoy seeing the character's simple origins, and then watching as they grow into whatever they pursue.

I usually make powerful NPCs level 9, and very powerful NPCs level 12. Past level 12 seems too powerful IMO.

Leadfeathermcc
2008-01-07, 08:00 AM
Closest to pure 3.5 I like is E6 as I prefer a epic gritty game.

If playing or DMing higher levels I would like to use Iron Heroes.

Currently I am playing in a pure 3.5 campaign and we are lvl 12, already the vermisilitude is lacking for me.