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Kiyona
2008-01-06, 02:26 PM
Hi everyone,

there are so many spells out there, enough to confuse a newdbie like me atleast. =)

I would greatly appriciete if you could take a look at what i got so far and give me some pointers along the way. =)

Cantrips
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead.
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.

Level 1
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. 1 hour/level
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels
above 1st (max 5).
Tenser’s Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal
disk that holds 100 lb./level.
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. 1 min/lvl
Orb of Electricity, Lesser: Ranged touch attack
deals 1d8 electricity damage + 1d8/two levels beyond
1st (max 5d8)

Level 2
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1
round/level. Will negates
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage,
+1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it
attacks.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per
three levels, max 8)

Level 3
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of
action.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius. Reflex for half
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.

Level 4
Firestride exhalation, reflex halves
Burning Blood: Target takes 1d8 acid damage plus
1d8 fi re damage/round. Fortitude once per round. Lasts 1round/level, if failed only move action

Level 5
Undying vigor of the dragonlords
Baleful polymorph, fort, will partial. Permanent

I really want some spells that like fireball atleast does halve damage if they succeed with there saves, as that has been my biggest problem when playing spellcasters before.

I want to be useful even when fighting characters with paladin-like saves. =)

Thanks in advance :smallbiggrin:

Iku Rex
2008-01-06, 02:31 PM
Feats?
Race?
Books available?

valadil
2008-01-06, 02:35 PM
What do you have as far as metamagic goes? Rather than take 10 different d6 per level, save for half spells, I like taking one or two of those and using metamagic to make it more powerful.

I'd definitely ditch floating disk. It's cool flavour, but doesn't actually do much. I'd consider dropping expeditious retreat too. And I don't think you need both magic missile and less orb of electricity - as a sorcerer you want to avoid redundancy as much as possible. Ray of enfeeblement and grease are both quite nice, and they won't be redundant with much else that you have.

Other than that I like your spell list. If possible try to get dimension door in there at some point, it's invaluable.

Draz74
2008-01-06, 02:38 PM
Consider which spells would be better to get as scrolls or wands rather than Spells Known. Floating Disk, since it's calmly used (and rarely) outside of combat; I also like doing it with Magic Missile (it's not that expensive to buy it at a higher Caster Level).

FinalJustice
2008-01-06, 02:45 PM
I'd swap one of the 4th level for Orb of Force, as it's one of the most reliable damage dealing spells for a sorcerer. Ranged touch 10d6 guaranteed, no DR, no Energy Resistance (except for some really unique monsters), no SR, hits incorporeal things, etc...

Kiyona
2008-01-06, 03:31 PM
Shes a human, with spellcasting prodigy, energy substituition (acid), force of personality, protection devotion and versatile spellcaster.

Almost all books available.

Im not allowed and polymorh cheese, except baleful that is. =)

Ive been looking at the orbs a lot, but arent they really hard to hit with? with my base attack of +4.

Witch
2008-01-06, 04:04 PM
Do you have access to Celerity?

Kiyona
2008-01-06, 04:06 PM
I think so... In what book is it? And what does it do? :smallbiggrin:

FinalJustice
2008-01-06, 04:13 PM
Not really, Touch AC usually varies from 8 ~15, unless you're facing a monk or a will 'o wisp, they're pretty easy to hit.

If you feel really unsafe about it, swap one of your 1th level spell for Targeting Ray (SC) for a insight bonus on ranged attacks for you and your allies. Buy some scrolls of true strike (or a wand) for those times you need a guaranteed hit. ^^

Edit: Semi ninja'd. Celerity is in the PHBII, as an immediate action, you can take a standard action, but you are dazed until your next turn. Technically, for the cost of one 4th level spell, you take your action in the round whenever you need, unless you're flat footed. Ridiculously useful, lifesaver and cheesy.

Some of my personal favorite uses are blasting a caster when he's about to cast a really annoying spell, to force a nearly unbeatable damage-based concentration, stick walls of force in front of stuff like dragon breath weapons, surround one in a resilient sphere in the face danger, etc...

If you want to abuse it further, combine with Quick Mind feat (from LoM) to make a will save to get out from daze as a move action and act again in the round OR UMD a wand of Favor of the Martyr (SC), 4th level Paladin Spell that makes you immune to daze.

Draz74
2008-01-06, 04:21 PM
Feat choices made more for flavor than for powergaming? Because Protection Devotion seems pretty weak, and Force of Personality is a weird choice when you already have a good Will save.

Alternatives: Heighten Spell is always a favorite of mine for Sorcerers, and (Greater) Spell Focus can help you with your feeling that your spells tend to get saved against often.

Your base attack is +5, not +4, unless you have a -1 Dex penalty and you were including that in the number. More importantly, against most things (except NPC rogues or monks), even a +4 is reasonably likely to hit, because it only has to hit its target's Touch AC, not their regular AC. This is the beauty of a lot of good spells ... especially necromancy rays, such as Ray of Enfeeblement and Enervation. :smallbiggrin:

Level 0: Dancing Lights and Disrupt Undead are lame. I think you'll get more use out of Mending and Resistance.

Level 1: Get Magic Missile (Caster Level 9) on a Wand for those emergencies when you need it. Which won't be very often at all if you have Orb of Force. Get Tenser's Floating Disk on a wand, if there's any good reason to have it at all. Lesser Orb spells are a good idea at lower levels, especially if you're trying to use Energy Substitution, but you're high-enough level that you shouldn't be running out of blasting spells anyway, especially with Versatile Spellcaster. Check out Ray of Enfeeblement (and Ray of Clumsiness), Grease to replace some of these.

Level 2: Consider Glitterdust instead of Hideous Laughter. The effect is lesser, but it works on a whole area instead of one target, and doubles as an anti-invisibility utility spell. Invisibility and Mirror Image are vastly inferior to their Greater counterparts at Level 4, but since you only know two Level 4 spells so far, you may be stuck with them.

Level 3: Phantom Steed vs. Fly is a tough choice at this level, but at least look at both options. Suggestion is OK, but probably not the most important thing for you to have, since Level 3 tends to be bursting with excellent spells (Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy, Stinking Cloud, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon just to name the most important few). I guess you're probably not willing to give up Fireball for any of these. Hope you don't meet many foes with (Improved) Evasion.

Level 4: Burning Blood is good, for a blaster spell. So are the Orb of X spells, especially Orb of Force. I don't know how good or lame Firestride Exhalation is. Greater Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Defenestrating Sphere, Dimension Door, Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Enervation, and Greater Resistance are all good options too.

Level 5: Don't you only know one spell of this level? Again, I don't know anything about Undying Vigor of the Dragonlords. Baleful Polymorph is not a bad spell, but you won't need it if you've got Heighten Spell and good lower-level Save-or-Lose spells. Other good options are Greater Blink, Mass Fly, Teleport, and Shadow Evocation. If you get the latter, you could drop Fireball and Magic Missile and Scorching Ray from your list, and you'd still be able to use them when you need them. Sure, the target gets a disbelief save, but it's worth it IMHO.

Iku Rex
2008-01-06, 06:31 PM
Level 1
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. 1 hour/level
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels
above 1st (max 5).
Tenser’s Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal
disk that holds 100 lb./level.
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. 1 min/lvl
Orb of Electricity, Lesser: Ranged touch attack
deals 1d8 electricity damage + 1d8/two levels beyond
1st (max 5d8)I'd drop Tenser's and Expeditious Retreat in favor of Ray of Enfeeblement and Benign Transposition (SC). Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't have a save so it remains effective on higher levels, and it's a good candidate for Empower Spell. Benign Transposition lets you get party members out of trouble and, with their permission, switch places with a meat shield if you get grappled.


If you're starting at level 9 I'd also consider a mithral twilight chain shirt (along with your mithral buckler) instead of Mage Armor. Then you can get Nerveskitter (SC).


Level 2
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1
round/level. Will negates
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage,
+1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it
attacks.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per
three levels, max 8)I'd drop all those, except maybe Invisibility. You can get Invisibility with a scroll or a potion if you really need it.

Glitterdust is a good Will save attack and it has better ranger and area than Tasha's.

Wings of Cover (RacDrag) is a great defense against both magic and melee. Get spellcraft to know which spells to shut down. Must-have.

Arcane Turmoil is a Dispel Magic light. Nobody wants to fight buffed dragons and NPCs.

False Life would get you more survivability, which is always nice.

A fifth option is Combust (SC). With Empower Spell or one of those crystals from the MIC it can do some serious damage wih no save. Range touch though, so not really reccomended unless you get more defensive spells.


Level 3
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of
action.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius. Reflex for half
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.
All good choices.


Level 4
Firestride exhalation, reflex halves
Burning Blood: Target takes 1d8 acid damage plus
1d8 fi re damage/round. Fortitude once per round. Lasts 1round/level, if failed only move action
Orb of Fire is good. Decent damage, no SR and if your opponent fails the Fort save he loses a round of actions.

Greater Mirror Image (PHBII) is downright broken IMO. Very good defensive spell, as is Celerity (PHBII).

Heart of Earth (CMag) is another handy defensive spell.

Look for a magic item to provide you with teleportation of some sort.

Level 5
Undying vigor of the dragonlords
Baleful polymorph, fort, will partial. PermanentMass Fire Shield (SC) can be devastating against melee opponents who hit a lot with (relatively) low damage attacks, like dragons. Mass Fly (SC) could replace Fly and make you much loved by the rest of the party. You'll probably want Wall of Force eventually. Baleful Polymorph is a solid choice though. I wouldn't bother with healing. Use defensive spells and temporary hit points instead and depend on magic items or a cleric for any healing you might need.

Talya
2008-01-06, 06:32 PM
All sorcerors that can cast level 4 spells should have Ruin Delver's Fortune (Spell Compendium). It's just a nobrainer.

Reinboom
2008-01-06, 06:41 PM
All sorcerors that can cast level 4 spells should have Ruin Delver's Fortune (Spell Compendium). It's just a nobrainer.
I support this message.

I also highly recommend Haste and/or Slow.

I highly recommend slowly moving your blasting spell up - and not take multiple ones. For example, I prefer Blast of Flame over Fireball, even though Blast of Flame is a cone - since the Blast has no spell resistance.

Also, some important things:
Is Dispel Magic already covered in the party?
Do you have access to quicken spell of some kind eventually?
Have you considered one of the feats in the Dragon Magazine Compendium that give you an extra spell per spell level, prechosen? (Bloodline feats)

Chronicled
2008-01-06, 07:53 PM
I'd recommend Greater Mirror Image from the PHB2, which will greatly increase your survivability. It's an immediate action 4th level spell that works like Mirror Image, except you get an additional image each round after the first, with a maximum of 8 at a time. It also lasts 1 min/level, making it highly unlikely anyone will manage to target you.

I'd also keep Scorching Ray, it's one of the better damage spells.

Chronicled
2008-01-06, 08:12 PM
Cantrips
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. Replace with Caltrops from SC
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.

Level 1
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. 1 hour/level
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels
above 1st (max 5). Replace with Protection from _____ (you chose at time of casting).
Tenser’s Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal
disk that holds 100 lb./level. Replace with Grease from PHB
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. 1 min/lvl Replace with Ray of Enfeeblement from PHB
Orb of Electricity, Lesser: Ranged touch attack
deals 1d8 electricity damage + 1d8/two levels beyond
1st (max 5d8) Replace with Bigby's Tripping Hand from PHB2 or Benign Transposition from SC

Level 2
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1
round/level. Will negates Replace with Web, Rope Trick, or Resist Energy from PHB
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage,
+1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it
attacks.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per
three levels, max 8) Replace with Glitterdust from PHB

Level 3
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of
action. Possibly replace with Stinking Cloud, Slow, Haste, or Ray of Exhaustion from PHB.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius. Reflex for half Replace with Dispel Magic from PHB
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.

Level 4
Firestride exhalation, reflex halves Replace with Greater Mirror Image from PHB2 or Ruin Delver's Fortune from SC
Burning Blood: Target takes 1d8 acid damage plus
1d8 fire damage/round. Fortitude once per round. Lasts 1round/level, if failed only move action Replace with Enervation, Evard's Black Tentacles, or Solid Fog from PHB

Level 5
Undying vigor of the dragonlords Replace with Wall of Stone or Major Creation from PHB
Baleful polymorph, fort, will partial. Permanent. Replace with Teleport from PHB

I only have my PHB and PHB2 handy, but from those, here's what I would swap out.

I only have my PHB and PHB2 handy, but from those, here's what I would swap out.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-06, 09:10 PM
Not a spell, but the "heighten spell" metamagic is a must for sorcerers, as your save-or-dies remain useful much longer, and you have less redundancy, I also suggest taking 3 direct damage spells at most, and just re-training them each opportunity.

Sornjss Lichdom
2008-01-06, 09:17 PM
Races of the Dragon has some really, really fun spells. The ones you want to look for are the Power Words. THey offer no saves, but do incure spell resistance.

I'll get back to you with some more detail, those these spells are to finish your foe as it requires different hp totals, so for mass effect you should use them at the end of a fight.

Chronicled
2008-01-06, 09:17 PM
To add to the metamagic suggestions: Sculpt Spell has to be my favorite metamagic feat, since it gives you incredible flexibilty with your AoE spells for just a +1 adjustment. Heighten is quite handy for sorcerers as well, keeping your low-level spells useful later on.

Kiyona
2008-01-07, 02:27 AM
All sorcerors that can cast level 4 spells should have Ruin Delver's Fortune (Spell Compendium). It's just a nobrainer.

Ok, I have never heard of it. What does it do? :smallbiggrin:

As for the feats, force of personality is for flavor only. But protection devotion I chose as we have no healer at all. Only me with use magic device. So i figured a boost to AC to all allys would be a lifesaver. But im thinking of switching both of those to Heighten and quicken spell.

The same thing goes for the undying vigor lvl 5. With no healer it would feel good to atleast be able to save my own skin. =) But I could definitly exchange it.

I have read the TNL guide to wizards, and I know that blasters are inferior, but I really like to play them =)

Thats why I want at least one touch, one reflex-, one will- and one fortitude save damage spell so I can use them as often as possible.

I have changed some spells according to your suggestions.

1lvl, added grease, swift exp retreat and ray of enfeeblement.

2lvl, havent changed anything yet. Tashas is for flavor so I want to keep it if possible. And invisibility and mirror image will be exchanged for the greater versions once i get more lvl4s.

3lvl, switched suggestion for dispel magic. I have a high bluff anyways. =)
Thinking about getting rid of fireball, but it is so much fun... Although stinking cloud and ray of exuation are tempting.

4lvl Orb of force instead of burning blood. No save! =) Firestride exhalation... isnt that like dimension door, only with firedamage as well? If im wrong, please enlighten me =)

5lvl So many good choices... but healing is sometimes necessary.
Havent decided yet.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much for all help you guys. =)

Chronicled
2008-01-07, 02:33 AM
Healing? Just get Teleport and *BAMF* everyone off to the nearest clerics if they're running empty on HP.

Note: Expect every fight to start opening with a Dimension Lock.

Edit: Alternatively, get the party to buy a lot of Healing belts (MIC). 750 gp a pop for 6d8 max daily healing that anyone can use on anyone, just keep switching them out as needed.

Reinboom
2008-01-07, 03:09 AM
Ok, I have never heard of it. What does it do? :smallbiggrin:

As an immediate action, adds to a save an amount equal to your charisma modifier or gives you temp HP + other benefits, such as evasion if you add to your reflex save.
Which, as a sorcerer, that's a hefty bonus.
It also lasts for 1d4 rounds. Which is great for something that would be worth it for even 1 round.

It's in the spell compendium, page 178.

Kiyona
2008-01-07, 03:59 AM
Awesome! And it fits so perfectly with the fluff as weel. Ok, firestride exhalation gone. =)

Need to get another way to teleport now though...

Took the anarchic bloodline feat BTW, more spells known =)
I now have glitterdust. And weird at lvl 9.

My character is really beginning to look cool. =)

Chronicled
2008-01-07, 05:53 AM
Awesome! And it fits so perfectly with the fluff as weel. Ok, firestride exhalation gone. =)

Need to get another way to teleport now though...

Took the anarchic bloodline feat BTW, more spells known =)
I now have glitterdust. And weird at lvl 9.

My character is really beginning to look cool. =)

The Anarchic bloodline is probably the best of the options, and the follow-up feat (an extra d6 added to a d20 roll 1/day) looked fun. You actually don't get the spells known from the bloodline until you're able to cast them normally (bonus spells from high Charisma don't count). You'll have to wait a bit for Weird.

Kiyona
2008-01-07, 06:01 AM
Hehe, yeah I know I have to wait. But still, its a cool spell. =)

Must have missed the follow up feat... Have to go through my notes again.
She is in fact a Sorcerer 7 fatespinner 3, so an extra d6 would meld just fine with the build. =)

Chronicled
2008-01-07, 06:21 AM
The feat is Fickle Fate. It's prerequisites are 2nd level arcane spells and Anarchic Bloodline. You have to declare it before you roll either die, but it could still prove really handy.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-07, 06:43 AM
My suggestions(Based on Chronicled's suggestions):

Cantrips - Not even important enough to warrant discussion. Pick things you like and are flavorful.

Level 1
Mage Armor
Protection from Evil(Sorry, but each one is a separate spell, you do have to learn just one)
Grease
Ray of Clumsiness(Sc)
Benign Transposition

Level 2
Web
Rope Trick
Glitterdust
Ray of Stupidity

Level 3
Ray of Exhaustion
Slow
Fly

Level 4
Wings of Flurry (Your Damage Dealing Spell)
Ruin Delver's Fortune

Level 5
Teleport.

Wings of Flurry is your death spell. CLd6 in damage and no cap on damage.

...

...

...

Has that sunk in yet? Lets say it again. No Cap On Damage. Whatever your caster level is, it does that much in d6s. And to top it all off, your enemy gets to make a Reflex Save for half. If he fails. He's dazed.

...

Re-read that sentence. Reflex Save vs Daze. Pick a fighter. He loses. Automatically. It's useless against a rogue, but thats what Slow, or your Ray of Clumsiness/Ray of Exhaustion(use in that order) combo is for.

Cthulhu
2008-01-07, 06:50 AM
I pretty much agree with Chronicled's suggestions - I'd recommend scrapping all the spells that arn't 'target saves or does nothing for six rounds' if you want real ultimate power. Like fireball is fun, but stinking cloud is *better* You have teammates that can hit things as required.

See

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=795899

For a list of spells that are awesome. If you fill spell slots with about 50% this sort of stuff, and 50% other stuff that is awesome like fly and teleport, your pretty right.

Edit: And the cantrip daze isn't bad and you should take it. If it comes down to cantrips thats the closest thing you have to a useful action, with some luck you can even stunlock someone while the fighter kills them.

Kiyona
2008-01-07, 07:01 AM
Fickle faith will definitly be my lvl 12 feat. =) But i think heighten spell will be even more useful right away.

Wings of flurry does sound like a very nice damage spell. In what book can I find it?

Reinboom
2008-01-07, 07:24 AM
Races of the Dragon

Also, I must also emphasize on the Benign Transposition suggestion. Its utility is amazing, and it is by far one of my more favored, if not favorite, spell(s).

Kiyona
2008-01-07, 08:10 AM
Ok, i will look in to it when i get my books back. =)

Benign transportation is added to my list now. Useful to be abble to switch place with the tank when grappled. =)

Keld Denar
2008-01-07, 08:15 AM
Seconding what SweetRein said, BenignT is amazing for a 1st level spell, especially if you still have your familiar (if you didn't trade it for somethign else). If your familiar is anything with a decent move speed (or if you share a swift exp retreat with it), it can move up to an opponent right before you cast BT (or quickened BT) and swap the party fighter with the familiar. Its pretty much a short ranged teleport on a 1st level spell, which is incredibly useful. Also good for getting out of grapples.

My favorite spell is the 4th level Solid Fog. This spell should be known if possible. It is hands down the most complete buy 3 rounds spell for 95% of things you will be fighting. If it doesn't have dim travel or FoM, its stuck for at least 2 rounds, no save, no SR, no nothin.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-07, 08:31 AM
Edit: And the cantrip daze isn't bad and you should take it. If it comes down to cantrips thats the closest thing you have to a useful action, with some luck you can even stunlock someone while the fighter kills them.

The cap on it (4HD or lower) makes it useless at level 10. If you're fighting guys with just 4HD, then you're better off spending your round hitting them.

You may also want to think about getting a crossbow. It's a simple weapon and you can always contribute atleast 1d6 points of damage whenever your not casting spells.

More on the spells though:

Ray of Clumsiness: 1d6+5 Dex penalty. No save. At all. You just instantly suck. Get this. It blows Ray of Enfeeblement away. Why? Because Ray of Enfeeblement only cares about Wizards and other lowbie Strength-dumpers. But no class likes to dump Dex. Greater Invisibility + Maximized Empowered Ray of Clumsiness is 13.5+(1d6*1.5) Dex damage. It makes hitting with the next spell even easier..

Ray of Exhaustion: Ranged touch and then a Fort Save for half. On a failed save, say hello to -6 Dex/Str. On a successful save, say hello to a second Ray of Exhaustion. Thats right, this spell isn't just a save-or-lose. It's a save-then-lose. Cast twice on the BBEG or any monster you've already hit with Ray of Clumsiness. Then laugh. Laugh hard. Remember though, this spell always comes second. Never first. That way you can reduce their Dex to 0.

Ray of Stupidity: Ranged touch for 1d4+1 Intelligence damage. No, it doesn't get higher than that, but who cares? It's damage, not a penalty. Pick a wizard and smack him with this over and over until he drools on himself. Maximize and Empower for a nice 5.5+(1d4*1.5). If you ever fight an animal(or something with animal-like intelligence) then you auto-win by casting this spell and reducing it's Intelligence to 0.

Just to note: On terms of Items, you're gonna need a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Maximize if you want to get the most out of Wings of Flurry.

Reinboom
2008-01-07, 08:38 AM
You may also want to think about getting a crossbow. It's a simple weapon and you can always contribute atleast 1d6 points of damage whenever your not casting spells.

And/Or the cantrip Launch Bolt. :smalltongue:

Keld Denar
2008-01-07, 09:33 AM
Ray of Clumsiness: 1d6+5 Dex penalty. No save. At all. You just instantly suck. Get this. It blows Ray of Enfeeblement away. Why? Because Ray of Enfeeblement only cares about Wizards and other lowbie Strength-dumpers. But no class likes to dump Dex. Greater Invisibility + Maximized Empowered Ray of Clumsiness is 13.5+(1d6*1.5) Dex damage. It makes hitting with the next spell even easier..

I actually like RoE better than RoC. RoE lowers attack and damage, and if you drop str to less than 13, the target loses access to Power Attack, and all PA related feats (Imp Bullrush and Shocktrooper). RoC lowers AC and reflex saves, and the possibility of crippling high dex builds (dex lower than 15? No more TWF for you). It also can screw some grapplers, since Improved Grapple requires a 13 dex also. Situationally, though, RoE is better than RoC most of the time.


Ray of Stupidity: Ranged touch for 1d4+1 Intelligence damage. No, it doesn't get higher than that, but who cares? It's damage, not a penalty. Pick a wizard and smack him with this over and over until he drools on himself. Maximize and Empower for a nice 5.5+(1d4*1.5). If you ever fight an animal(or something with animal-like intelligence) then you auto-win by casting this spell and reducing it's Intelligence to 0.


This spell is stupid, and most DMs I know outright ban it. It should have been 4th or even 5th, and even then, it would still be a good spell. Similarly to Shivering Touch, if you take it and use it, your DM will hit you with the Monster Manual (either everything in it, or the book itself, depending on the DM). Also, check your math on combining Empower and Maximize. They each apply to the base spell. So Empowered Maximized RoS would do 5 (maximized) + (1d4+1)/2 (empowered) average 6.5. Better would be Split Ray Empowered for 3d4+3 (average 10.5) or Split Ray Empower Twin for 6d4+6 (average 21)

(ps, I know that statistically 2d4 *1.5 =! to 3d6, but its easier to math out)

Kiyona
2008-01-08, 06:45 AM
Thanks for all your help guys!

This sorcerer turned out to be one of the most enjoyable character Ive played in DnD so far. =)

Not having to prepare spells every day was awesome, and I never felt like I couldnt contribute in a fight. The high charisma didnt hurt either... =)

Ray spells rule. And ray of stupidity is often a instant win. And twin schorching rays can really bring some hurt. Poor trolls. =)