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Archetype-
2008-01-06, 08:18 PM
I guess I should start by saying how I came to this conundrum. See, I've been running a campaign of adventure on the high seas for about a year and a half now. It's the first game I've run, and it's been a surprisingly large success. The party started as a trio of lowly level one PCs (save one who was already multiclassed Rog1/Sor1; I ruled that the player could play the character and start at 1000 XP, but couldn't gain XP until the rest of the party caught up), and after a quick world tour and some furious fighting they now find themselves at seventh level and about to aid in a war effort whilst hunting for a really old shiny thing. As is part of my duty as DM, I've drawn up many concepts to both aid and assail the party. It's come as no surprise that quite a few of these are very tempting to use as a PC in someone else's campaign.

This leaves me with quite a few concepts I'd love to roleplay, but I can only commit to two at most. I figured I'd present my options to you guys and get your opinion on it all. These are the ones that stand out at the moment.

Jorvan Darkcloud: Jorvan is a wizard, sent by his parents (both wealthy merchants) to study at a large and prestigious college of magic. The reason why he was sent away was Jorvan was (and still is) a kid who loved playing outdoors until the weather got so bad he was in real danger of hurting himself, and he had to be escorted to his parent's manor by friendly bystanders. On top of all this, he is essentially an ADHD kid. His parents didn't want to deal with such a kid, so they sent him packing. They hoped that the discipline required to study arcane magic, but ironically it gave Jorvan a means to get closer to poor weather. He's in best spirits when the the wind howls, the rain makes small lakes, and lighting splits the sky. Should I choose him, I'll almost certainly go for the Stormcaster PrC at the earliest opportunity.

Kijalk: Kijalk's background is a lot less clear, mainly because I've not invested nearly as much time and thought in it as Jorvan. I do know that he will be a combat-oriented half-orc bard who wields (and eventually play) a greataxe. Yes, Kijalk will be a heavy metal bard. I know there are those among you who believe a dwarf would make a better heavy metal bard. I know dwarves are more renowned for being masters of shaping steel than the half-orcs, but to me the half-orc fits my mental image of the concept better than a dwarf does. I'd pick one of the bard PrCs from CAd, CAr, or CW for him if I go with this one.

Lo-Kag “Solitaire” Thurukalathi: Lo-Kag is a Goliath ranger who lives in self-imposed exile. Until about half a decade ago, his tribe was living under the tyranny of a red dragon. The wyrm forced the craftsmen of the tribe to make items and weapons (preferably magical) just so it could gather dust in his hoard. He would occasionally venture out to rob some hapless caravan of it's money and any valuable goods or meats it had. It was during one of these forays that the tribe planned to rebel against the dragon. When Big Red came around to collect his tithe, the tribe made their move. It was a bloody fight, but the tribe managed to force the dragon to flee back to his cave. Lo-Kag insisted on pressing the attack, but the elders and more experienced warriors bade him to stay his hand. There were many wounded Goliath that needed healing, and several lay dead. Angered, Lo-Kag grabbed his bow and stormed off to finish the dragon on his own. Unfortunately, the cave the dragon had called home was completely bare when he arrived. The wyrm had fled to find easier subjects rather then risk another fight against a group that could very well kill him.

Should I decide to use him, I'll end up making him a Scout/Ranger multiclass with the whole Swift Hunter-Greater Manyshot deal. I might also pick some feats from Draconomicon geared for dragon hunting.

”Space Marine Chaplain”: Right, this is going to need some clarification. In 40k, Space Marine Chaplains are fierce warrior-priests who fight at the forefront of every battle, their litanies driving his brothers to greater acts of heroism. They often carry a ranged weapon, but it's just so he has something to do until he gets into melee. That's what I'd like this concept to eventually become. As far as I can tell, the best way to do this is to go with the Crusader from Tome of Battle and loading up with Devoted Spirit and White Raven maneuvers and stances.

Garret Haymeadow (Redux): Garret was a halfling rogue of mine from a campaign that eventually went into epic levels. Garret didn't follow the party into epicness due to his lifespan being cut short by a Nightwalker's Finger of Death. I built him as a skill monkey and archer, and I have to say that he was the weakest of the party in combat. We had nowhere to sneak around to, we essentially did a bunch of open field fighting. I've repeatedly been inclined to remake him as a TWF Spellthief.

Kethatril Siannodel (Redux): Ah, Kethatril. He was a nice little gish. I pretty much abused True Strike, Arcane Strike, Leap Attack, and Scorching Ray with him. Last I left him, he was a Ftr2/Abjurer2/Elf Paragon3/Spellsword3/Eldritch Knight6. He was made after Complete Mage was released, and I don't have that book. This means I can't rebuild him with levels in Abjurant Champion because I don't have the book that the PrC is in. He was potent enough as he was, and it was fun telling the DM that this big bad Thayan Knight just took 116 (roughly half of it fire from the Scorching Ray) damage from my leap attack. He only had one downside, and that was a lack of resilience. I prioritised Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence when I made him, and Constitution ended up being his second-lowest stat (actually tied with his Wisdom of 10). Even with Improved Toughness, he only had 97 hit points. He was still a lot of fun to play.

And there we have it. I thank you for reading this sea of text. What do you folks think I should pursue?

Peace out,
- Archetype-

Talya
2008-01-06, 08:52 PM
I love your Goliath.

Check out this one, I created as an NPC in my seafaring campaign.

Silas Whetstone: Silas was captain of his own ship, before the Kraken tore her apart and dragged her and her crew to the depths. Since then, he's spent most of his time drinking barrels of rum at a time.

In my campaign, Silas is a Seacliff Dwarf (Stormwrack) level 4 ranger, with favored enemy Magical Beast. (Will likely go with Aberrations and Dragons as well.) He dual weilds a pair of dwarven waraxes, and has a dire parrot (eagle) as his animal companion. Due to his drunkeness, he has the flaws Unreactive (-6 initiative) and Shaky (-2 ranged attacks), he took Natural Bond and Oversized TWF with those feats. I favored strength, constitution, and intelligence for him, he's got a lot of skills, knowledge and survival and seafaring skills. I picture him as something of a cross between a dwarven Mr. Gibbs from Pirates of the Caribbean and Captain Ahab from Moby D!ck (My god, **** is censored?). He's working toward the Leviathan Hunter PrC in Stormwrack. His entire equipment list at level four consists of rum, a pair of masterwork dwarven waraxes, rum, rope, rum, adamantine chain shirt, rum, and rum.

Starsinger
2008-01-06, 08:55 PM
(save one who was already multiclassed Rog1/Sor1; I ruled that the player could play the character and start at 1000 XP, but couldn't gain XP until the rest of the party caught up),

”Space Marine Chaplain”: Right, this is going to need some clarification. In 40k, Space Marine Chaplains are fierce warrior-priests who fight at the forefront of every battle, their litanies driving his brothers to greater acts of heroism. They often carry a ranged weapon, but it's just so he has something to do until he gets into melee. That's what I'd like this concept to eventually become. As far as I can tell, the best way to do this is to go with the Crusader from Tome of Battle and loading up with Devoted Spirit and White Raven maneuvers and stances.


The first thing is why I generally start at level 2 at the lowest.. And Space Marine Chaplain could totally be a bard. Perform (Litany) + Inspire Courage..

Archetype-
2008-01-06, 10:16 PM
Right, I'll address your points one at a time.


I love your Goliath.

I do as well. If I may ask, what makes him stand out from the others?


Check out this one, I created as an NPC in my seafaring campaign.

Silas Whetstone: Silas was captain of his own ship, before the Kraken tore her apart and dragged her and her crew to the depths. Since then, he's spent most of his time drinking barrels of rum at a time.

<miscellaneous interesting details concerning piracy, whales, and booze>

Probably (read: definitely) a little off-topic, but an interesting concept there. I'd rather be cautious with my Pirates of the Caribbean rip-offs as I'm already working on a Barbossa copycat, but feel free to share other ideas via PM.


The first thing is why I generally start at level 2 at the lowest.

What can I say except, “Live and learn, and then fix my bloody errors?”


And Space Marine Chaplain could totally be a bard. Perform (Litany) + Inspire Courage..

The Bard would be fitting save for one thing. Space Marines in general tend to be highly proficient melee combatants, and Chaplains just take that to a higher level. Most Space Marines were barbarian warriors in their former life, and the Chapters come around and take the top three or four and make them a lot better. The average base attack of the Bard just doesn't seem to cut it, and the Divine variant only comes close to matching the zeal of of a Chaplain.

MorkaisChosen
2008-01-07, 11:57 AM
I like the Chaplain idea- I don't have ToB, but from what I know, a Devoted/Raven Crusader should work for that. It stands out mainly because of the strong, simple base concept. I also think the Bard looks cool, if you can pull of a Half-Orc bard.

*Sits back and remembers the only decent Eurovision winner in his lifetime...*

Telonius
2008-01-07, 12:13 PM
(My god, **** is censored?).

I know. Misters Clark, Cheney, Nixon, and Grayson have all filed complaints.

Archetype-
2008-01-08, 01:31 AM
Righty, I thank Morkai, Tayla, and Starsinger for their respective input on the matter. I've decided to gen up the good Chaplain and Kijalk. Kijalk I can do well enough on my own, I've done pretty much everything in the PHB except anything to do with Druids (don't ask why, they just rub me the wrong way). It'll actually be the second time for me doing a half-orc bard, the first being for a party-versus-party one-shot.


*Sits back and remembers the only decent Eurovision winner in his lifetime...*

<plays some Lordi for the hell of it>

Now, I've never played a ToB character before. Closest I've come are a couple Cleric-zillas and those were fairly-short-lived characters, and not due to lack of survivability on their part. I'd like to get your opinions on my initial build here. We normally start at an ECL of 3-5, but I'll draw him out here at 6th level so you can get an idea of how I'd like him to progress. I'll keep a hardcopy 3rd level version of him for my own records.

Creation Guidelines

Books Available: Core, all Complete books save Mage and Psion (I don't have them), UA, PHB2, Arms & Equipment Guide, Races of Destiny/Stone/the Wild/the Dragon, ToB,
Stats: 4d6, discard low die, roll seven times and drop lowest sum (so I'll be rolling 4d6 seven times and ignoring the lowest roll)
Feats/Skills/Equipment: Pretty much whatever's in the above books, but I like to keep it as Core as possible.

Current Character

Race: Human
Stats: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15
Level Build: Crusader 6
Feats:

Human: Improved Initiative
1st (1st level): Power Attack
2nd (3rd level): White Raven Defense
3rd (6th level): Cleave

Stances and Maneuvers

1st: Crusader Strike, Leading the Attack, Vanguard Strike, Stone Bones, Douse the Flames, Bolstering Voice
2nd: Martial Spirit
3rd: Foehammer
4th:
5th: White Raven Tactics
6th:

Skills: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Martial Lore, Knowledge (religion), Listen (cc), Spot (cc)

Notes

-I chose Foehammer over Mountain Hammer because I only expect to use the maneuver in combat. Locked doors always tend to fall the the party skill monkey to “take care of,” and I don't like stepping on the toes of others.

-I'm aiming to have Clarion Commander 9th level. I like the group benefits it offers, and it fits the flavor I think.

-I originally wanted to have him wield a warmace (CW page 154 for stats, 158 for description), but I figure I'll go with a warhammer and shield instead to reap the fullest benefits of White Raven Defense.

-This is a combination of party support and Emperor-blessed melee smackdown, each of which will come into their own once I get access to the mid-level and higher White Raven Devoted Spirit stuff. Stone Bones is there on its own because I couldn't think of anything else to pick for the last 1st-level maneuver I get at level 1.

Requests

I'm basically looking for input to make him both tactically sound and fit the theme. I'll optimize enough to make sure he does well, but not to the point where he betrays his original concept.

A couple other things I need to mention. Firstly, parties around here generally have at least two PCs that end up in melee in round one, or round two at the latest (that's provided a clear line of effect for a charge. One friend of mine in particular tends towards the tanking types, and I have yet to personally see him take levels in anything other than Fighter, Barbarian, or Cleric (PrCs aside). Secondly, no one really powergames around here. It's generally frowned upon around here, and one former member of our gaming circle is not missed because he was well-known for powergaming at everything he could. So no Batmen to say the least

That just about wraps up my thoughts. If any of you have any questions/comments/concerns/complaints/suggestions, let them be known.

Peace out,
- Archetype-