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Adumbration
2008-01-07, 08:14 AM
I'm going to play a Killoren Druid 5 / MoMF 7 some time soon, and I'd like to know what feats I should take. I'm going to go heavily into the whole wildshape thing, so anything that adds more Wildshapes per day or more forms would be great.

I have access to some of the books, but don't let it restrain you: I can probably borrow a book from a friend, if necessary. (I.e. BoED, CC, several Races books, CW, CS, AaE, and, of course, Crystalkeep indexes.)

JellyPooga
2008-01-07, 08:26 AM
Well, aside from the two wasted on Alertness and Endurance to actually enter the PrC, that only leaves you with 3 feats to play with.

More Wild Shape uses per day is a waste of time...you already have 8, which is more than enough (especially given that you have a 12 hour duration on each use).

I would advise taking Improved Flight, for better maneuverability when in a form with a Fly speed. If you wanted to go heavy into Flying forms, then a couple of other feats from RotW might be an idea, but I wouldn't recommend that route myself.

The "spend a wild shape use to get a natural attack/special quality/whatever" are a waste of time...don't even think about them.

The only feats that grant extra forms are epic feats (IFAIK), so they're right out...and anyhoo, you get all the forms you could ever want from MoMF.

If you're going for the whole combat thing with the Wild Shape, then go for a couple of combat feats...Combat Reflexes is always useful, Combat Expertise + Improved Disarm/Trip could be good with the higher strength forms you have access to, Power Attack + Improved Bull Rush/Grapple is good for the same reason...you get the idea.

lord_khaine
2008-01-07, 08:29 AM
if you want to abuse the size bonus and increased str, then pick improved grapple.
besides that there are also a feat in savage species that allow you to pick a supernatural ability from a shape you assume.

Adumbration
2008-01-07, 08:33 AM
Well, aside from the two wasted on Alertness and Endurance to actually enter the PrC, that only leaves you with 3 feats to play with.

More Wild Shape uses per day is a waste of time...you already have 8, which is more than enough (especially given that you have a 12 hour duration on each use).

All right.



I would advise taking Improved Flight, for better maneuverability when in a form with a Fly speed. If you wanted to go heavy into Flying forms, then a couple of other feats from RotW might be an idea, but I wouldn't recommend that route myself.



Any ideas what good flying forms are out there? Haven't been able to find any, myself.



The only feats that grant extra forms are epic feats (IFAIK), so they're right out...and anyhoo, you get all the forms you could ever want from MoMF.


I thought there was at least Exalted Wildshape from BoED, that let you wildshape into blink dog, unicorn and giant eagle/owl? Plus, I think I've heard something about a feat in Frostburn that would let me go for the Frostworm.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-07, 08:47 AM
There are feats that give you more wild shape forms. But a Master of Many Forms doesn't care about any of the pre-Epic ones.

As already stated: Exalted Wild Shape is basically Blink Dog Form. It does give you the (Su)s so thats sorta nice? I guess. Meh. I'd give it a pass.

Frozen Wild Shape gives you access to Magical Beasts with the Cold Subtype. AKA: Cryohydra Form. (Seriously. Don't pick any other form. 12 Bite Attacks win out versus anything else).

I feat I'd pick up at 12th level would be Snatch. It's basically Improved Grab for all of your Huge sized forms. Pick up Improved Grapple for an extra +4 bonus on top of your obscene Strength and Size bonuses.

EDIT:


The "spend a wild shape use to get a natural attack/special quality/whatever" are a waste of time...don't even think about them.

This is actually untrue. Oaken Resilience from Complete Divine gives you immunity to crits, stun, paralysis, and a bunch of other minor things(poison and junk).

Very useful for giving your Twelve-Headed Cryohydra Death Form immunity to critical hits(and by proxy, sneak attack).

You also might wanna think about a Ring of Diamond Mind for picking up the maneuver that allows you to make a concentration check instead of a will save.

Keld Denar
2008-01-07, 09:13 AM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=639448
this is the updated MMF bible from the CO boards. Heed well the advice herein for all your wildshaping needs.

For feats, while I like the idea of Improved Grapple, 2 things make it rather less than viable. 1st, it requires Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq, which does nothing when wildshapped. 2nd it requires a 13 dex min. Any time you shift into a shape that doesn't have a 13+ dex, you lose the benefits of the feat. May of the large>>huge>>gargantuan grappling forms have less than a 13 dex, which means that the times you really want it, you can't have it. This can be bought off later with Ioun Stones that stick with you in forms that can boost your dex above the magic number of 13. Unless you can get it through some other method (1 level monk dip works, since it says they get it regardless of whether or not they meet the prereqs) its probably not worth it.

For MMF, I like Frozen Wildshape, Snatch, Improved Natural Attack (claw or bite, depending on what forms you spend most time in), Swallow Whole (get in mah belly!), Multiattack, Improved Multiattack, and/or Power Attack>>Imp Bullrush>>>>Shocktrooper. It all depends on what forms you like, and what forms you see yourself spending most combat in.

If you plan to do any grappling at all as a MMF, I highly recommend 1 level of Natures Warrior in CW for the Serpents Coils ability. Then you do damage ANY time you win a grapple check. This means that if something tries to escape your grip but fail, you get to squeeze them a little more. Pin normally does no damage, but with SC, it does now. You can keep a good number of things incapacitated and crush them to death with this ability. I like using it in Dire Lion form for Pounce, Claw, Claw, Grab, Rake, Bite, Constrict, Win.

KITTAH SAIZ NO!!!! (insert lolcatz here)

Adumbration
2008-01-07, 11:55 AM
Thanks for the input, so far, although I think I'll pass with the Cryo-hydra. I want to keep my friends, see?

Slightly off the topic, though: Does anyone know any good flying forms?

Keld Denar
2008-01-07, 12:24 PM
Slightly off the topic, though: Does anyone know any good flying forms?

Follow the link I posted. Press CTR + F to enable the find feature. Type in "fly" and search. You'll hit every creature with a fly speed on the way down. Some of the things you'll get are:


- dire hawk(RoW; sf, cf): This is a great outdoor form with superb dexterity. It has a fly speed of 80, 3 natural attacks. Medium Animal 5 HD, 12str, 22dex, 15con, and 3 natural armor

- dire bat (MM; sf): The dire bat is one of the earliest large flying forms which means it can possibly carry other characters in the air. Familiarity even with a level 2 summon nature's ally spell. 4 HD, large animal, 17str, 22dex, 17con, 5 natural armor, fly 40 ft. (good); at level 7: blindsense 40 ft.

- dire eagle (RoS, sf): An even better carrier for slow parts of the party is the dire eagle, for it is stronger and faster and can carry 200 kg as a light load at full speed, 400kg with speed 40 and 600kg with speed 20. 4 HD, large animal, 20str, 19dex, 17con, 5 natural armor, fly 60 ft. (average); at level 7

- Aarakocra (RoF, sf): Not much to them really, except for their excellent flight speed. Useful for travel at early levels while remaining in humanoid-like form.
Races of Faerun, 1HD, Monstrous Humanoid, +1 NA, 9 Str, 15 Dex, 10 Con, claws and foot talons, land speed 20', fly 90' (average).

- kir-lanan (FRCS; sf): The kir-lanan has a fly speed of 90 with good maneuverability, while still giving you hands and legs. Thus, it is a decent flying form, it for example can cast spells with somatic components while flying. Even better is the level 7, when this is the best form against negative energy: It gets healed by it, not damaged or drained. 4 HD, medium monstrous humanoid, 14str, 12dex, 10con, fly 90 (good), 4 natural armor; at level 7: +4 hide, harmed by positive energy, healed by negative

- cloaker (MM, cf, sf): Cloakers have interesting ranged sonic abilities. For example, the stupor ability means that it can hover above a non-flying victim till it fails a save and is helpless for 5 rounds. 6 HD, large aberration, 21str, 16dex, 17con, 7 natural armor, moan, engulf; at level 7

- dragonhawk (E5N; sf): The dragonhawk is a huge animal with strength 25 and a base flying speed of 120 ft. That makes him ideal for carrying your whole party somewhere: He can fly unhindered with up to 600 kg on his back, and still fly at 80 feet with up to 1800 kg.
Huge animal, 8 HD, 26str, 12dex, 20con, speed 10, fly 120 (average; 24 mph), natural armor 9; at lvel 7: LLV, blindsense 60 ft.; +8 spot;

- quetzalcouatlus dinosaur (MM2, sf): This huge dinosaur has a fly speed of 100 ft. and can carry 1200 pounds without slowing down, and up to 3600 pounds with a speed of 66 feet (according to the Heroes of Battle). So if you need to take your whole party somewhere else, this is as fast as a flying ship.
huge animal, 10 HD, 26str, 13dex, 20con, speed 20, fly 100 (poor; 20 mph), AC+8 (28), bite (2d10+8+swallow whole), 2xwing (2d6+4); swallow whole (M); at level 7: LLV, DV 60 ft.; carrying capacity: light 0.6t/ medium 1.2t/ heavy 1.8t/ drag 9t (HoB: fly 66 ft. if medium of heavy load)

- seryulin (MMIII, sf): The seriulyn has a spray attack that can glue enemies to the ground or make flyers drop. The form gets more interesting on level 7: Then it gets a "slick" ability that works like freedom of movement, except in a grapple. Plus damage reduction and trip immunity.
10 HD, large aberration, 20str, 12dex, 14con, 10 natural armor, pain poison, sticky spray; at level 7: amphibious, blindsense 60 ft., can't be tripped, damage reduction 5/piercing or slashing, DV 60 ft., acid resistance 10, slick


There are more at higher levels, but these are the first few. Happy Shapechanging!

Adumbration
2008-01-07, 12:26 PM
Ah, thanks.