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smart thog
2008-01-07, 01:18 PM
The title says it all. I want to know what the GP to dollar exchange rate is. could somebody please tell me?

tyckspoon
2008-01-07, 01:28 PM
I don't think there is one, officially; the two currencies aren't expected to be in the same games. If you're using dollars, gold is just a commodity and not currency. If you're using gold, chances are nobody is thinking of paper money and they certainly aren't thinking of paper money that doesn't immediately represent gold/silver/copper.

That said, the d20 Modern SRD might have something about it, or you could just convert the GP by value of the weight of metal they're made of; IIRC, the standard D&D gold piece is some absurdly large coin.. yeah, there it is. A third of an ounce apiece, fifty to a pound. Any large amount of GP is going to come out to 'a heck of a lot of dollars.'

icthius
2008-01-07, 01:30 PM
Ask any numismatics company or coin auction group and they'll tell you that if you can answer that question you'd be a very rich fellow :smalltongue:

Here's a good starting place:
http://www.kitco.com/pop_windows/exchdetails.html

Telonius
2008-01-07, 01:31 PM
Depends on how much gold is in a "gold coin."

50 coins per pound, 1 pound = 16 ounces. Approximate current price of gold: US$858/ounce.

Assuming gp are the same gold concentration as the standard gold used in that pricing, that works out to about US$274/gp. (Of course this goes all screwy if you try to compare $/coin for the current prices of copper, silver, and platinum in the real world).

Altair_the_Vexed
2008-01-07, 01:31 PM
It doesn't work exactly like that - some things are strangely expensive, often for a balance reason (if you can't afford it, then you can't have it, so power levels stay nicely constant and balanced).

However... you won't want to hear that, so look at it this way:

one pound of gold = 50gp cost
currently gold is 858 US dollar per ounce
16 ounces in a pound
THEREFORE: 858 x 16 / 50 = 274.56 USD per gp.


...but like I said, it doesn't work like this. This would make a chunk of cheese about 27 US dollars.
Also, a commoner doesn't earn enough to buy both a chunk of cheese and bread with his wages from a day's hard work.
The D&D prices for ordinary stuff are screwed up and best not examined too closely.


EDIT: Eek! Simu-Ninja posting!

Telonius
2008-01-07, 01:33 PM
...but like I said, it doesn't work like this. This would make a chunk of cheese about 27 US dollars.


Maybe they were balancing it to organic food stores? :smallbiggrin:

adanedhel9
2008-01-07, 01:40 PM
I've heard $8 ~ 1 gp. I don't have the time at the moment to confirm this, but when I first heard it (several years ago, maybe even under 2e) it made sense.

PMDM
2008-01-07, 01:42 PM
Even if you could get a number, economics dictates that the number will change based on the value of the dollar. So there's really no point in trying to figure it out.

Lolzords
2008-01-07, 01:47 PM
Whenever I explain how gold pieces work to people I show gold piece as a one pound coin, silver piece as a 10 pence coin, bronze coin as a 1 pence coin and a platinum piece as a 10 pound note.

Since the pieces currency is similar to pounds and pence, you could work it out in the same way as you would work out pounds and pence to dollars.

Matthew
2008-01-07, 01:50 PM
I would say about $2 to 1 Silver Coin, which would be $20 to a Gold Coin or $300 for a Long Sword, $2 for a half a pound of butter or two pounds of bread.

MorkaisChosen
2008-01-07, 01:53 PM
Whenever I explain how gold pieces work to people I show gold piece as a one pound coin, silver piece as a 10 pence coin, bronze coin as a 1 pence coin and a platinum piece as a 10 pound note.

Since the pieces currency is similar to pounds and pence, you could work it out in the same way as you would work out pounds and pence to dollars.

So the average peasant may never see one pound in his life?

Seldriss
2008-01-07, 01:59 PM
In the old time of AD&D 2nd Edition, the rate was 1gp = $20.
This was given as an answer in a Dragon magazine, in Sage Advice.
Even if time passed, and editions rolled over, i still use this rate, even if it's just an approximate evaluation, as many prices don't really make sense anyway.

Eldmor
2008-01-07, 02:04 PM
I would say about $2 to 1 Silver Coin, which would be $20 to a Gold Coin or $300 for a Long Sword, $2 for a half a pound of butter or two pounds of bread.

For some reason that just screams "I MAKE SENSE!". All of those prices would be expected in the modern world. For looking like a pull-out-the-bum number, it works beautifully.

Neek
2008-01-07, 02:05 PM
They'll see more than one pound, but they'll hardly see a coin or a note worth that much.

The problem, however, with equating gold pieces and dollars is this: The value of goods and services in D&D are quite different than in the modern world (or for that matter, the value of goods and services in the medieval era are quite different). While some prices would equate, some prices would not...

Matthew
2008-01-07, 02:12 PM
The problem, however, with equating gold pieces and dollars is this: The value of goods and services in D&D are quite different than in the modern world (or for that matter, the value of goods and services in the medieval era are quite different). While some prices would equate, some prices would not...

Very true, but I think we're looking for a 'best fit', not a perfect fit. The price of Bows, for instance, is a hold over from AD&D where they were a much more powerful weapon relative to the other options. Of course all prices were explicitly said to be vastly inflated in AD&D as a result of the activities of the adventurers and Gold Coins weighed ten to the pound.

One of the most significant problems in assessing medieval prices is the variety of coinage over time and locality. The generic sourcebook Fief contains a very lengthy table of medieval prices with period, location and currency provided. It's the best consolidated list I know of and broadly supports the $2 to 1 Silver Coin conclusion (though a Silver coin in D&D and the real world have very different weights, since you get something like 300 to the pound).

Mr.Bookworm
2008-01-07, 02:19 PM
I always thought of it, for simplicities's sake, as this:

1 pp=100 dollars
1 gp=10 dollars
1 sp=1 dollar
1 cp=10 cents

Which roughly works out.

RukiTanuki
2008-01-07, 03:01 PM
The d20 Modern supplement Urban Arcana's "Chapter Nine: D&D and Urban Arcana" lists a gold piece as being worth $20 USD.

Starsinger
2008-01-07, 03:04 PM
Wouldn't a rather simple idea be to compare the cost of a pistol from the DMG to the cost of one in the real world?

Valiena
2008-01-07, 03:10 PM
There are not 16 oz to a pound when dealing with gold. They use Troy ounces. There be 12 of them to a pound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight

Matthew
2008-01-07, 03:14 PM
Yes, but not in D&D; it's fifty to the conventional pound.* They also used the Trojan Pound when Charlemagne standardised the Frankish Silver Coin, which is why it's 240 Silver Coins to the Trojan Pound and about 300 Silver Coins to the contemporary pound.

*Of course, since the D&D Mile is apparently 6,000 Feet, I wouldn't be surprised to find the D&D Pound was slightly different from the real pound, but there is nothing to indicate that either way.

smart thog
2008-01-07, 03:29 PM
The d20 Modern supplement Urban Arcana's "Chapter Nine: D&D and Urban Arcana" lists a gold piece as being worth $20 USD.

Well in that case, I just shelled out 40 bucks for a beer. Thanks for the help.

Matthew
2008-01-07, 03:30 PM
Well in that case, I just shelled out 40 bucks for a beer. Thanks for the help.

I've heard of places like that... :smallwink:

Telonius
2008-01-07, 03:32 PM
There are not 16 oz to a pound when dealing with gold. They use Troy ounces. There be 12 of them to a pound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight

Argh, curse you Imperial measurements. $206 then.

terrant
2008-01-07, 04:32 PM
It's all relative to where you are. In this world; sure I'll give you some dollars for that gold coin. However in the game world try paying me in paper that you claim are tokens of value and I'll hit you with an axe and claim its a receipt.

So take your choice:
- this world = $274'ish.
- game world = nothing (but trouble).

AKA_Bait
2008-01-07, 05:40 PM
Because it's vaguely relevent and really cool I recommend the Economicon (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9483527&postcount=5), which is a subsection of the really cool Dungeonomicon (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=9483435) article. It has some interesting analisys of how the D&D economy would work and why it doesn't really mesh with modern ideas of currency.

Talya
2008-01-07, 06:10 PM
If you're talking current American dollars, it's 1gp = 156,246,235,235 USD.
If you're talking current Canadian dollars, it's 1gp = 10 CAD.

My figures are scientifically accurate 9 times out of 1000 to within +/- infinity.

psychoticbarber
2008-01-07, 06:38 PM
If you're talking current American dollars, it's 1gp = 156,246,235,235 USD.
If you're talking current Canadian dollars, it's 1gp = 10 CAD.

My figures are scientifically accurate 9 times out of 1000 to within +/- infinity.

Hey now, our dollar is higher than yours now :smalltongue:.

Here (http://www.treasuretables.org/forum/index.php?topic=1181.msg13708#msg13708)'s a half-decent comparison. From post #3 on down.

Talya
2008-01-07, 06:47 PM
Hey now, our dollar is higher than yours now :smalltongue:.


Oh sure, today. And that still falls within the boundaries of my scientific accuracy statement!

Matthew
2008-01-07, 06:54 PM
Here (http://www.treasuretables.org/forum/index.php?topic=1181.msg13708#msg13708)'s a half-decent comparison. From post #3 on down.

Heh, what do you know, 1 SP = $2. It must be true, then. :smallbiggrin:

Felius
2008-01-07, 07:01 PM
Well, it depends on the greed and financial status of your DM. You may get more gold than you can use in a thousand years of epic campaign for a 100 bucks if he is on negatives. :smalltongue: (I don't believe no one did that joke before)

Anyway, seriously, to convert it, you would have to see the power of acquisition of the gp and compare it with the power of acquisition of the gp. To define what the power of acquisition of the gp, you would need to see how much each item is actually worth and why it's worth that price. So that goes on. Basically you would need to flesh out the entire economy of D&D, including inflation, life quality, etc. It's not really a feasible thing to do. If you do happen to appear on a modern society with gold pieces, make then worth their weight, or check the auctions of real life for an idea of the price. If you happen to appear in a classic D&D setting with three hundred dollars in cash and your credit card, well, it's worthless, except what's the price of the paper it's printed, and the plastic it's done. So 300 1 dollar bills are worth more then 3 100 dollar bills.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-07, 07:11 PM
I use the 1 GP = $20 standard.

SimperingToad
2008-01-07, 07:21 PM
I've been reading the responses. Some good, some not so good, some based on misconceptions. Not going to disparage anyone since it's not deserved. Been good fun.

Short answer - since D&D assumes 50gp to the pound (on the use of the 16 oz. per pound avoirdupoir weight scale), just go with 800 paper 'dollars'/ounce. It's easier to count that way. So, one pound will be 12,800 'dollars'. 1gp would be 256 'dollars'.

Long answer - just to make an assumption that you're planning on playing a 'time travel to modern day' game in the U.S. It may be important to know how gold/silver coins vs. paper currency have worked.

The term 'dollar' for our coins in the U.S. had been defined in our law (Coinage Act of 1792) as a specific weight of pure silver, 371-1/4 grains of silver to be exact (using the Troy weight system). It's value was defined as a fixed unit of measure, a weight. So, when you would use the term 'dollar', you were referring to a unit of measure, not a coin itself. A 'quarter dollar' was literally 1/4 of the weight of a full 'dollar', and therefore 1/4 of the size as a 'dollar' coin. Gold was given a weight ratio in proportion to silver (of 15:1 silver to gold if I remember correctly).

Over the years, the gold:silver ratio was changed a few times, but the value of the 'dollar' remained the same, as it does today. The greenback became of permanent useage during the Civil War, linked to silver/gold, both of which had established values by an act of Congress.

Then came 1933, when gold coins were removed from circulation, then 1964/1968, when silver was partially, then fully removed from our coins, and 1971, when gold was removed as the basis from which the Federal Reserve Note 'dollar' (FeRN) derived it's value, as it had no value of it's own (no law was ever passed giving it one). The metals became commodities, and the FeRN was now tied to petroleum, another commodity with no established value.

If you look up the laws for our monetary system today, you will no longer find a definition for 'dollar'. It wasn't legislated away, it just kinda fell out of the books and got swept under the rug. All you'll find now is a mention that the paper FeRNs shall be printed in 'denominations of' 1, 5, 10, 20, etc. 'dollars'. So the self-defined term 'dollar' only exists as a name (denomination) of a FeRN, not a value. Even the U.S. Mint website has a timeline which mentions the no-value aspect of the FeRN, saying it only has value by government fiat (i.e. because-we-say-so :smallyuk: ).

Anyway, those are the basics. The hard part is if you want to use medieval-style coins and bring them into the modern world, it has already been pointed out that the purity/composition of the coin may not be up to par, and the value would change. For simplicity, just assume that it is. It's too much work otherwise.

Regards,
the 'Toad

Icewalker
2008-01-07, 07:40 PM
Well in that case, I just shelled out 40 bucks for a beer. Thanks for the help.

I'm sure the bartender thanks you for the tip. :smallbiggrin: