PDA

View Full Version : Fighting on and with a dragon



playswithfire
2008-01-07, 02:37 PM
Here's the situation: paladin with a dragon special mount. The paladin has Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge and a lance. The dragon has Flyby Attack, Great Flyby Attack and Improved Flyby Attack.

So, on its own, the dragon can move in a straight line and attack enemies on that line (up to dex mod, thanks to great flyby attack), make one attack and damage roll and apply it to all of them, not provoking AoOs from the ones it attacks thanks to Improved Flyby Attack.

On his own and treating the dragon as any other mount, the paladin can make a ride-by charge attack at one opponent and do triple damage on a hit thanks to Spirited Charge. Paladin and mount do not provoke AoO from the target

Is there any way (feats, it already happens and I just don't get it, homerulings) to effectively pull of both of these at the same time?

For example, can the dragon make a charging Improved Flyby attack (still only moving up to 1xmove) hitting up to dex mod opponents and not provoking AoOs from them while the paladin on its back has readied an action to attack the first one in the line (may or may not be important, but obviously the lance gets there before the dragon), thus receiving his charge benefits and not provoking an AoO from the first guy, but does provoke one from each of the other dex mod -1 opponents the dragon attacks?

Or something like that. If not, I guess they could alternate passes at the enemies with the paladin riding defensively when its the dragon's turn to attack.

Any help would be appreciated as I've obviously never played a character who rode a dragon before

Gorbash
2008-01-07, 02:57 PM
Believe me you don't need to ride a dragon to be one of the cheesiest characters ever made (not counting pun pun and other obsceneities), you would only need a pegasus. Cast rhino rush and divine sacrifice and you're looking at the quardaple damage on a charge + any str/item bonuses + 5d6... And of course you can fly off in any direction you want... I've seen this in action and he can deal ~100 dmg with one attack... God forbid you use a smite or hit a critical...

But one thing strikes me as odd... Since your dragon has to be large in order to ride it what lvl are you?

playswithfire
2008-01-07, 03:09 PM
Level 19, but it's a halfling, so the dragon only has to be medium. I'm basically doing the Supermount build. I realize dragon's aren't necessary. They're just really cool.

Which is kind of why I'm asking. I know I don't need the damage he'll do on the flyby attack. It's just that, well, it's a dragon. It should do something more than just carry me around.

Chronicled
2008-01-07, 08:39 PM
Believe me you don't need to ride a dragon to be one of the cheesiest characters ever made (not counting pun pun and other obsceneities), you would only need a pegasus. Cast rhino rush and divine sacrifice and you're looking at the quardaple damage on a charge + any str/item bonuses + 5d6... And of course you can fly off in any direction you want... I've seen this in action and he can deal ~100 dmg with one attack... God forbid you use a smite or hit a critical...

But one thing strikes me as odd... Since your dragon has to be large in order to ride it what lvl are you?

Bah, you haven't even combined it with the Cavalier from CW. There's a PrC that makes charge builds scary.

dyslexicfaser
2008-01-07, 08:41 PM
To answer the question, I believe all that's required is a very low Ride check (10? Something like that) to have both mount and rider attack on the same turn.

Mind you, I'm not Silvanos or anything, so take that with a grain of salt.

Hawriel
2008-01-08, 02:17 AM
check out the dragon lance campaine books im sure it has all you need to know.

JackMage666
2008-01-08, 02:22 AM
I did this with a Knight on a Gryffon.

Gorbash
2008-01-08, 05:30 AM
Bah, you haven't even combined it with the Cavalier from CW. There's a PrC that makes charge builds scary.

Yeah, he didn't take the Cavalier yet, but he was about to... Those kind of things steal all the fun from the game... So, we're fighting this Rakshasa BBEG, and he needed say 2 rounds to set up a charge (and to drink true strike potion, cast divine sacrifice and rhino rush), but when he did... He hit him for 120 dmg. 8 lvl character. Worst BBEG fight ever.

nerulean
2008-01-08, 10:19 AM
Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

DC 10.

More problematic is deciding when each of the actions take place. Try and avoid situations where this becomes necessary, because it will give you a headache. There are simply no useful rules for intelligent mounts. Even the five-article-long clarification on mounted combat on the WotC website doesn't even touch on mounts who have real attack options for themselves, and the ability to use them coherently in conjunction with the person riding them.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-01-08, 11:06 AM
Yeah, he didn't take the Cavalier yet, but he was about to... Those kind of things steal all the fun from the game... So, we're fighting this Rakshasa BBEG, and he needed say 2 rounds to set up a charge (and to drink true strike potion, cast divine sacrifice and rhino rush), but when he did... He hit him for 120 dmg. 8 lvl character. Worst BBEG fight ever.
Just a nitpick on part of what's making this guy ridiculous, but True Strike potions can't exist by the rules. Not that you couldn't have made a single-use Wondrous item and called it a True Strike Elixir or something, if the DM was willing to allow such questionably balanced items.

It sounds like a fun build, though. Paladins make great chargers, especially mounted, especially especially flying mounted.

Worira
2008-01-08, 11:25 AM
Uh, why not? It's a first level spell with a casting time of one standard action, so it qualifies as a potion as far as I can tell.

playswithfire
2008-01-08, 11:41 AM
Thank you for the information

DC 10.

More problematic is deciding when each of the actions take place. Try and avoid situations where this becomes necessary, because it will give you a headache. There are simply no useful rules for intelligent mounts. Even the five-article-long clarification on mounted combat on the WotC website doesn't even touch on mounts who have real attack options for themselves, and the ability to use them coherently in conjunction with the person riding them.

Yeah; I went through those articles and thought much the same thing. The ride check will be trivially passed (barring natural 1s) so I figure on a charge (which will be most of the time), they'll both use the paladin initiative, paladin charges and the dragon will either bite the person charged as they fly by or bite that person and up to dex mod -1 others on the straight line after the charge but each of those others will have an AoO at the rider (not the dragon, thanks to its feats); which one will depend on the situation.

If they're just standing in front of enemies and can't charge, they'll use their separate initiatives (the dragon will have made one as an intelligent being but ignore it when they've decided to charge) and probably just make full attacks until one or the other decides to move away to get to charge range. Obviously, this can't be done if the other one has made a full attack that round.

Something like that; I'll run it by the DM

Thinker
2008-01-08, 12:08 PM
Uh, why not? It's a first level spell with a casting time of one standard action, so it qualifies as a potion as far as I can tell.



BREW POTION [ITEM CREATION]

Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.

Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures...
The target can't be personal.

Thinker
2008-01-08, 12:13 PM
Yeah, he didn't take the Cavalier yet, but he was about to... Those kind of things steal all the fun from the game... So, we're fighting this Rakshasa BBEG, and he needed say 2 rounds to set up a charge (and to drink true strike potion, cast divine sacrifice and rhino rush), but when he did... He hit him for 120 dmg. 8 lvl character. Worst BBEG fight ever.

Why did the BBEG let him do this? The default Rakshasa has a ****ty spell-list, but the DM can change this. Most fights only take a few rounds in 3.5e, anyway. Also, 120 damage over 2 rounds is only 60 per round and there are plenty of ways to do that at level 8.

Worira
2008-01-08, 12:20 PM
The target can't be personal.


True Strike
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: See text

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.



The target is you, and you is a creature. (I grammar good.)

Thinker
2008-01-08, 12:31 PM
The target is you, and you is a creature. (I grammar good.)

I'm sorry. I should have quoted full text and reviewed my post. I will try to live up to your higher standards in the future. The point still stands that the target much be one or more creatures. "You" does not qualify. I'm tired and my thoughts are a bit jumbled at the moment. I will quote the correct text below and emphasize the appropriate area with bold.



http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsCreation.html
CREATING POTIONS

The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion—25 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster. All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)

The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the brew in addition to the XP cost for making the potion itself. Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

Brewing a potion requires one day.

Item Creation Feat Required: Brew Potion.