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Bushwhacked
2008-01-08, 02:26 AM
Yes, hello all i'm new and i bring you another version of this final fantasy derived class (the jumping is cool you have too admit) though i have moved away from the dragon knight idea somwhat in the fluff.

I have given it a couple of home-made feats that break the rules of the jump system in place which is possibly the thing i want the most comments on, and i cant really judge if it would over or underpowered compared to the other base classes (was looking at ranger, paladin and monk when making it) so that might be nice to.

Much love to karma guard who helped me round this idea out through his own version of this and i've stole or reworked a couple of things on mine through looking at his.

ps. i feel like i should note that i know it will be very hard on rolling abilities even using point buy, i thought this right as they are rare/elite and even the best should have to choose an aspect of the class to specialise in.

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Dragoon
Some warriors stand out because of their brutality or dedication to their cause, others fight under duress or because they are forced to it. The dragoon though fights because she understands the people she is fighting for, usually from high ranking family’s they take their places amongst the sergeants of the lower classes soon after joining the army from there they form into small skirmishing squads or lead others into the fray. What really sets aside a Dragoon from her fellow soldiers is the unique training given them by monk tutors letting them spring up from their mounts, high over the battlefield and come down with great force on the heads of their enemies.
Adventures: Dragoons are or were most probably in the service of some large power in the land, serving as an elite part of the commanders army or being sent on highly dangerous scouting mission. They could be sent out in a small squad, told to work as the lords eye’s and voice in a small mercenary party or have become mercenary themselves. They train hard for the skills they have acquired and so like showing off when they can.
Characteristics: Many days training and honing their skills have brought about their ability to jump to sometimes unfathomable heights. This can either impress or terrify the onlooker and they know it.
They are often seen riding in on horseback wielding lances and halberds, using the length of these weapons to make the most of a charge either from horseback or from the sky itself. Some choose to deck themselves in the heaviest of armour that they can find but even this doesn’t hinder their prowess.
Although they may worship gods or have a passing interest in magic their training leaves no time for any serious application of any of the spell casting nature instead they seem to use their force of will to command the energies inside themselves, some say that this is where the time hey spend with monks shows through the most.
Alignment: A Dragoon may not be Chaotic, like Monks the path of the Dragoon requires dedication, but is not a path that leads to spiritual enlightenment, that being said an individual Dragoon my have many different goals in life such as becoming a general, raising his rank in nobility or just perfecting his skills to their zenith.
Religion: Religion is one that is not much thought on once a Dragoons training really starts, often the warrior is left with the impression that his upbringing left on them giving a short time each week to abide by the standard rituals of that religion. Noting the common upbringing of most Dragoons it would often be a well-established and respected religion, or lack there-of in the region he is from.
Background: Often when the land is at a time of war it is viewed as honourable of some younger members of each noble house to volunteer, or be encouraged by family members to join up with the army. Once given basic training, as nobility, they are quickly moved up the ranks. From these and occasionally from the lower castes in society are chosen some of the best students of war to be Dragoons. Time spent after this is somewhat separated from both normal military and normal social life. The barracks they are sent to often shares grounds and sometimes even training areas with a local monastery and while studying warfare they are trained by some of the monk order to form a combined style of fighting. Time not training is spent acting as cohorts and helpers to those dragoons who are fully trained at social events that occur. To give the young warriors real battle experience they are sometimes lead by an elder Dragoon on a scouting or ambush mission.
Once they have completed their training they are considered knights in all social respects and have an esteemed place in the society that brought them up, often they are very competitive with one another on both the battlefield and the dance floor.
Races: Humans make for good Dragoons and they are certainly the most common. If there are Elven folk integrated into the community then they might also take up the call most are certainly able to see out the length of the training but tend to specialize in the skirmishing aspect taught in the first stages as their fragility makes it harder for them to stand up to head on fighting. Half-Elves fit even betting into the niche having elven traits but still being hardy. Concerning Half-Orcs, though they may have the strength and will to learn the fighting style, the social aspects are somewhat lost on the most of them, even if they weren’t then its most unlikely they would be selected due to them being stereotyped by their heritage. The fact that the skills’ main strength is suddenly leaping a horrendous distance straight up is somewhat disconcerting for most Dwarves, although a small tradition may be found, if a Dwarven monastery existed also, to guard some of the larger (and most notably higher ceiling’d) great halls. Gnomes often don’t take to the life at all and Halflings seem to have troubles with making use of the main weapons.
Other Classes: Dragoons get along with most other classes though may take issue with those from uncivilised backgrounds such as Barbarians. The bond they share with monks gives them an empathetic friendship with them but depending on the monk this may or may not be returned. When it comes to Paladins and Rangers they can get a little competitive. Because they are used to having a high status within the military they can sometimes look down on fighters if they have a military background.

Game Rule InformationDragoons have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is important for the Dragoon but so is Constitution and Dexterity to a degree as being a Dragoon is very physically demanding. A reasonable Intelligence is nice to have, as it will mean you shall be able to utilise a few of the skills and Charisma powers a few of their supernatural abilities. Wisdom is their lest important ability.
Alignment: Any nonchaotic.
Hit Die: d8

Class SkillsThe Dragoons class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty) (Int), Ride (Dex), Speak Language (-) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Dragoon.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +0 +0 +2 Lancer, Light as a Feather I
2 +2 +0 +0 +3 Jump Bonus +3
3 +3 +1 +1 +3 Break Fall
4 +4 +1 +1 +4 Dragoon Jump
5 +5 +1 +1 +4 Lancer’s Charge, Jump Bonus +6
6 +6 +2 +2 +5 Light as a Feather II
7 +7 +2 +2 +5
8 +8 +2 +2 +6 Riding the Currents, Jump Bonus +9
9 +9 +3 +3 +6
10 +10 +3 +3 +7 Unerring Accuracy I
11 +11 +3 +3 +7 Jump Bonus +12
12 +12 +4 +4 +8 Light as a Feather III
13 +13 +4 +4 +8
14 +14 +4 +4 +9 Unerring Accuracy II, Jump Bonus +15
15 +15 +5 +5 +9
16 +16 +5 +5 +10 Wind Walker
17 +17 +5 +5 +10 Jump Bonus +18
18 +18 +6 +6 +11 Skill Mastery: Jump and Tumble
19 +19 +6 +6 +11
20 +20 +6 +6 +12 Spear of the Slayer, Jump Bonus +21


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Dragoon is proficient in the use of All Polearms, Lances and Simple weapons. Dragoons are also proficient with all Armors and Shields except Tower Shields. Armor check penalties still apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also, swim checks suffer a –1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armour and equipment carried.
Light as a Feather (Ex): The Dragoon may ignore Jump and Tumble penalties with the listed Armor, as well as movement penalties. Light Armor 1st, Medium at 6th and Heavy at 12th.
Lancer (Ex): When using a medium sized, piercing, thrown weapon the Dragoon can launch a deadly attack from above. If throwing a weapon from above, check the distance between your height the targets height, for every 10 feet vertical add 5 feet to the horizontal distance for purposes of range increment. For every twenty feet that the Dragoon is above the target (up to a maximum of 100ft.) she can add her unmodified strength bonus to the attack for the purposes of damage.
i.e. Richard throws a javelin, with his +2 Str bonus, from his vantage point 43 feet above a goblin, which stands 15 feet (three squares) from him horizontally. The goblin is now counted as 35 feet away giving the javelin a –2 to hit and giving Richard a modified strength bonus to damage of +6 for this attack.
Jump Bonus: At 2nd level, and every three levels afterwards the Dragoon gets a +3 bonus to her jump ability.
Break Fall (Su): As of 3rd level she gets the ability to direct her fall a little and take some of the impact from a hard landing. During the fall the Dragoon may move horizontally at a distance up to half the distance of the fall and turn up to 10 degree’s for every ten feet fallen. Also for every 10 points of your tumble check result you can treat the fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is for determining damage. To gain the benefit the fall is counted as a move equivalent action and any five foot step must be taken at the end of the turn.
Dragoon Jump (Su): At 4th level or higher the Dragoon can make a leap almost vertically from standing, it takes a full round action for her to prepare and spring in which she is subject to attacks of opportunity and any five foot step must be taken at the start of the turn. The jump is designed to take you so high that you only actually go up in this round; coming back down is left until your next turn. You must declare a destination for the jump but this will often be a zenith if it is you will count as being x feet above your destination square until your next turn (note this can still take you to a high point i.e. a ledge, if that point is within the roll). Roll on your jump skill; the score indicates the maximum height that this jump can attain in feet, the Dragoon can choose to move up to the half height of the jump horizontally during flight. If the declared destination cannot be reached this turn or next then a comparable destination may be chosen as long as it maintains the same intent. This may be used once every 5 rounds (30 seconds).
Lancer’s Charge (Ex): At 5th level or higher a Dragoon can use medium or large sized, piercing, lance or polearm to make a diving charge from a height on one opponent. To accomplish this she must either land on the opponents square or with a reach weapon in one of the square short of the opponent (ie one of the nearer squares, as with a charge it must be in a straight line even if this is straight down). For every twenty feet that the Dragoon was above the target at the start of the fall (up to a maximum of 100ft.) she can add her unmodified strength bonus to the attack for the purposes of damage. The Dragoon also counts as charging (on a mount for the purposes of using the Lance’s bonus) so gets a +2 to attack and -2 to AC. The opponent may ready an attack against your charge if they succeed on a spot check against DC10 (normal rules apply if the opponent is unaware of your presence). You can take a five foot step back-wards only at the end of this attack.
i.e. Richard with a spear in two hands jumps off a ledge, with his +2 Str bonus, from his vantage point 43 feet above a goblin, makes his jump check and lands in the square short of the goblin (as he has a reach weapon he can still attack). He now has –2 to AC, +2 to his attack roll and modified strength bonus to damage of +7 (+1 for wielding a two handed weapon). After he has completed the attack he takes a five foot step backwards.
Riding the Currents (Su): As of 8th level, she may use the spell Feather Fall 3 + (her Charisma bonus) times a day, but only affecting herself.
Unerring Accuracy (Su): As of 10th level, she may use as a free action the spell True Strike 1 + (her Charisma bonus) times a day. This improves to 2 + (her Charisma bonus) times a day at 14th level.
Wind Walker (Su): As of 16th level, she may use as a free action the spell Air Walk (Cl 1) 1 + (her Charisma bonus) times a day, but only affecting herself.
Skill Mastery: Jump and Tumble: At 18th level the Dragoon becomes so certain in the use of her jump and tumble skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.
Spear of the Slayer (Su): As of 20th level, if the Dragoon has a free hand, she can bring into existence any weapon she is proficient in (is she chooses a bow then no arrows are formed) a number of times per day equal to her charisma bonus. The weapon is formed from brilliant energy and is considered a +5 weapon; it doesn’t harm the wielder. If the wielder drops the weapon or lets go of the haft then the weapon dissipates, unless it is thrown (use base weapons range increment) in which case another one forms almost immediately and the former one dissipates after the attack is resolved. Bringing this weapon into existence is partial action and it lasts for 1 round.

Ex-Dragoons
A Dragoon who becomes chaotic in alignment cannot progress in levels as a Dragoon, he retains all of his abilities aside from the Jump Bonus’ and Skill Mastery’s as he falls out of practice (this could be done slowly and over time but is up to the DM).

Notes:
-Medium creatures have a Vertical Reach of 8'. To go up a size, double this. To go down a size, halve it. Quadrupeds have a Reach of a creature that is one size smaller. The height of the target is the height of the ground it stands on plus half of the targets vertical reach or plus all of the vertical reach if they are two or more sizes larger than the Dragoon.
-Height in the text above never actually refers too any creature height but often refers to altitude.
-Maximum fall distance for one round is 120ft. DM can rule longer/shorter actions for the special abilities that exceed or are notably reduced compared to this measurement.

Eita
2008-01-08, 02:36 AM
I want to make one now for one reason.


often they are very competitive with one another on both the battlefield and the dance floor.

Gælen_Durrandl
2008-01-08, 10:34 AM
Bushwhacked,

I'd love to read the class, but I can't get over the fact that you've consistently used the wrong 'to'--as in, you've used the "also" 'too' instead of the directional 'to.'

I dunno about everyone else here, but its kind of painful read something that's so close, but missing so much.

Cieyrin
2008-01-08, 10:44 AM
You don't need the line about Leap of the Heavens, as the height maximum was removed with D&D 3.5.

Also, the Lancer, Break Fall, Dragoon Jump and Lancer's Charge abilities are very dense and hard to understand and, in the case of Lancer and Lancer's Charge, perhaps a tad overpowered when you include things like Power Attack and Leap Attack. For those, I'd increase the increment between strength increases and decrease the maximum limit, as 6 times the strength bonus on a single attack is quite a bit out of proportion. I'm also rather confused by how you determine the change of increments. are you basing it off the dragoon's reach, the creature being attacked or something else entirely.

And finally, the Charisma mechanic of some of your supernatural abilities seems kinda clunky, especially your capstone, as making that charisma check versus your damage at that level would probably be nigh-impossible, especially with how Lancer's Charge currently is, as a Dragoon would probably have a Strength in the low to mid 20s by then and with Lancer's Charge, that's a bonus of at least +35 (5x6 for str bonus, +5 from weapon), not including Power Attack or anything else. If they were feats and at odd Charisma intervals, I wouldn't be so bothered but requiring that in class to even USE your abilities is a real kick in the teeth.

Telonius
2008-01-08, 10:49 AM
I'd suggest another ability:

Dragon Affinity
Dragoons are fearless in the face of devouring, and so ignore the Frightful Presence of all dragons. Unfortunately they also receive a -6 penalty on all Sense Motive checks vs dragons (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=071113).

Bushwhacked
2008-01-08, 12:59 PM
Eita: i'll take that as you like the fluff :smallconfused:


Gælen_Durrandl: ugh... bad habit of mine, i'll do a proof read soon


Cieyrin: Lancer is on how high above the creature the dragoon is when he throws, Lancer's charge is on how far the dragoon fell. I had a feeling that the damage might be too much how about double's at 20, 40 and 60 feet?

I put the check in too make it do this in a way, making it almost a single attack weapon. Is there any other way to express that these skills are powered by their force of will when they have no other reason too take cha (apart from a couple of skills)?


Telonius: I'm trying too move away from the dragon thing and bring the jump function into the more historical mounted and unmounted soilders.

Stycotl
2008-01-09, 12:45 AM
you just used the word *historical* in a final fantasy thread. i cannot help but see the irony...

Archangel Yuki
2008-01-09, 12:51 AM
I completely agree with Cieyrin- the charisma mechanic just seams unwieldy. If you could include your thinking behind some of your ideas for applying the charisma to the class skills, maybe we can help you out, but for now, it is just off.
What is the reasoning behind applying Cha to break fall? It seems more like some Supernatural ability instead, or something like that.

Karma Guard
2008-01-09, 02:38 AM
( ._.) someone mentioned my name?

You should get that all nice and charted out. And probably run that through a grammar checker or a beta-reader.

Also: basing a character's class abilities directly off a stat (IF Cha 12, then {foo}) doesn't really happen. Usually it's worked off a stat modifier (see: Paladin's Divine...Thingy where he adds Cha mod to saves).

Bushwhacked
2008-01-09, 04:09 AM
Alright reworked somwhat:
-grammer in general
-wording of unique skills looked at and hopfully make more sense
-the two lancer skills now add less bonus (one double per 20feet)
-the cha based skills now done from cha bonus (break fall is not among these now)

i suppose cha too jump might make sense, what do you think to changing:
Jump Bonus: At 2nd level, the Dragoon gets a 3 + (charisma bonus) bonus to her jump ability. This increases to 6 + (cha) at 7th and so on every five levels.

Akennedy
2008-01-09, 10:29 PM
Anyone else see the irony in the post above mine? (look in the first 2 lines...)

Hazkali
2008-01-11, 09:37 AM
An easy way to make tables can be found here (http://www.pifro.com/dnd), that should make the post a bit easier to read.

Plus...does it really need 5 dead levels? Could you not shoehorn something into them?

Cieyrin
2008-01-11, 10:43 AM
Lancer’s Charge (Ex): At 5th level or higher a Dragoon can use medium or large sized, piercing, lance or polearm to make a diving charge from a height on one opponent. To accomplish this she must either land on the opponents square or with a reach weapon in one of the square short of the opponent (ie one of the nearer squares, as with a charge it must be in a straight line even if this is straight down). Depending on the height you fell you get a strength bonus to damage (which stacks with any other similar bonus). At 20 feet you can double your strength bonus, and at both 40 and 60 feet you can double it again (a doubled double is a triple). The Dragoon also counts as charging (on a mount for the purposes of using the Lance’s bonus) so gets a +2 to attack and -2 to AC. The opponent may ready an attack against your charge if they succeed on a spot check against DC15 (even if they know your in the air it would be hard for them to tell if your falling in their direction). You can take a five foot step back-wards only at the end of this attack.
i.e. Richard with a spear in two hands jumps off a ledge, with his +2 Str bonus, from his vantage point 43 feet above a goblin, makes his jump check and lands in the square short of the goblin (as he has a reach weapon he can still attack). He now has –2 to AC, +2 to his attack roll and modified strength bonus to damage of +7 (+1 for wielding a two handed weapon). After he has completed the attack he takes a five foot step backwards.


Your example doesn't add up right; being 40 feet up gets you x3 Strength mod and wielding a two-handed weapon multiplies the Strength mod by 1.5. You can multiply in any order you want but you multiply the whole thing, whether it be (2(1.5)3)=9 or (2(3)1.5)=9. You can't just have the multipliers ignore each other, since that's just how the math, and D&D, works. Simple as that.

Voyager_I
2008-01-11, 11:13 AM
I couldn't climb the wall of text (and I'm not really qualified to comment overmuch on balance anyhow), but I will insert a historical note, since you said you were trying to go in that direction. This class has very little to do with historical Dragoons, aside form riding a horse (sometimes). Dragoons were mounted infantry who used the speed of their horses to maneuver before dismounting and engaging with muskets. The could fight as light cavalry when necessary, but they weren't really intended for melee and couldn't afford heavy armor. I know you're basing this of FF (which I haven't played), but you mentioned history, so I gave you some.

I don't know if there's really any historical parallel to what you've got...

Telonius
2008-01-11, 11:26 AM
Well, the Dragoon's attack seems to be fairly similar to the Australian Drop Bear. They attack their victims by jumping on them from above. It's possible that some of the early Australian regiments were, in fact, dragoon corps - maybe some of the Australian playgrounders could verify this?

Bushwhacked
2008-01-11, 07:06 PM
Hazkali: Thanks i'll probibly get around too this either tomorrow or the day after. I didn't mind the dead levels as it has so many abilities already and it picks up most of its power being able too jump higher in the later levels.

Cieyrin: I will change the example's too, thought that two handed counted as an add not a multiply. I'd just like too check if things like power attack will be added after the multiply because if they are added before this would be far too much.

Voyager_I: I'm not trying too draw the parrarel but wanted too move it away from dragoon's being so chummy with dragons so i put the mounted/dismounted in there as an extra theme.

Fiery Diamond
2008-01-11, 10:36 PM
You think that you reworked your grammar? Man, I'd hate to see what you had written before! I could barely understand what you were saying, especially in the fluff section. Grammar checkers make many mistakes, but they are useful when you can't speak coherent sentences otherwise. If you aren't a native English speaker, I apologize.

The class concept is cool.
- Fiery Diamond

Tyonisius
2008-01-12, 04:27 AM
Cieyrin: I will change the example's too, thought that two handed counted as an add not a multiply. I'd just like too check if things like power attack will be added after the multiply because if they are added before this would be far too much.

Two-handed does count as a multiply, however, to fix your examples you could simply change them so that the bonus damage from falling is added. As to the other part of your question. Just using the rules of math, you multiply and then add. Here is an example using the description of Lancer's Charge as it is now. So if they had a +6 Str Mod, used a two handed weapon, fell 40 feet, power attacked for -5 BAB it would be (6x3x1.5)+10 = 37 damage before the weapon damage is rolled or damage from enhancements or enchantments. I think my math is right there. If you change the description of Lancer's Charge how I suggested it would become 9+6+6+10 = 31 damage.

Anyway, on a side note, doing that kind of damage or higher by level 20 means you have pretty much no chance of making a charisma check to keep your Spear of the Slayer around after the first attack. So I would just change it so that, instead of making a check at all, it just lasts for the first attack that connects.

Tyonisius
2008-01-12, 04:28 AM
Not sure what happened, sorry about the double post. Please delete.

Bushwhacked
2008-02-18, 02:42 PM
Alright i've rounded a few things out, most of what was considered clunky has been changed, and i've put some more in the jump bonus.

One thing thats come up when i started testing is the phrasing of the weapon proficiency; "The Dragoon is proficient in the use of All Polearms, Lances and Simple weapons."
Would this qualify him for the use of normally exotic polearms and lances? I didn't think about it when writing it and i cant think of any examples.