Mr. Scruffy vs. Tsukio (with some spoilers) [Archive]

timbuck_hunter

2008-01-09, 10:59 PM

this excerpt from D20srd:

Size/Type: Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½ d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-12
Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d2-4)
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d2-4) and bite -1 melee (1d3-4)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +6, Hide +16*, Jump +10,
Listen +3, Move Silently +8, Spot +3
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Domesticated or solitary
Challenge Rating: ¼

Assuming an average house cat has a 1/4 challenge rating, able to defeat most commoners in the average DnD world, Mr. Scruffy, an epic level cat/familiar should have a pretty decent chance of staying alive for quite some time, if not doing some decent damage.

FoE

2008-01-09, 11:08 PM

Considering he survived several months in a city full of monsters that would probably enjoying eating him, he's no pushover.

Anyway, Mr. Scruffy's just a distraction to give Belkar and Haley enough time to kill off the undead.

Warlord JK

2008-01-09, 11:08 PM

That would be very funny to find out Mr. Scruffy is really epic level.

*Templar*

2008-01-09, 11:43 PM

Assuming an average house cat has a 1/4 challenge rating, able to defeat most commoners in the average DnD world

This sentence makes me laugh.

Also: It's Tsukiko.

krossbow

2008-01-10, 01:07 AM

Who knows? Her parents could have both been horrifically killed by a D&D housecat as a child, giving her a lifelong phobia of their deadly abilities.

Prowl

2008-01-10, 01:09 AM

Considering it's been months (at least) since Mr. Scruffy had his claws trimmed, I bet he could rack up some good damage, fast.

*Templar*

2008-01-10, 01:12 AM

Considering it's been months (at least) since Mr. Scruffy had his claws trimmed, I bet he could rack up some good damage, fast.

I'm pretty sure cats "trim" their own claws by wearing them down scratching on things. That's what the scratching posts people buy for their pet cats are for. I can't remember ever trimming the claws of any of the cats my family had when I was growing up once.

monty

2008-01-10, 01:16 AM

The Extinguisher

2008-01-10, 01:18 AM

Epic level Aristocat?

Arkenputtyknife

2008-01-10, 01:32 AM

I'm pretty sure cats "trim" their own claws by wearing them down scratching on things. That's what the scratching posts people buy for their pet cats are for. I can't remember ever trimming the claws of any of the cats my family had when I was growing up once.
No, they sharpen them that way; being swiped by a cat with trimmed claws is a very different experience to being swiped by one with naturally sharpened claws. Trimming claws is a frequent task at cat shelters (and not so easy — cats have retractable claws and many don't like people messing with their paws). Cat claw trimmers can be bought at any pet store.

Most cats will quickly learn (or can be trained) not to use their claws on people or furniture, but trimming is still often a good idea.

Gitman00

2008-01-10, 01:34 AM

Epic level Aristocat?

*takes 2d6*

Arrrrrgh! The pain!

SoD

2008-01-10, 01:36 AM

Jayabalard

2008-01-10, 01:54 AM

I'm pretty sure cats "trim" their own claws by wearing them down scratching on things. That's what the scratching posts people buy for their pet cats are for. I can't remember ever trimming the claws of any of the cats my family had when I was growing up once.No, actually they do that to sharpen their claws; cat's claws are like ogre's, they have layers, and scratching on a scratching pad or post lets them pull off the outer, dull layer leaving the inner sharp layer.

People often trim their cat's claws; as long as you get them used to doing it while they're a kitten, they usually aren't any problem. You should do it about once a month or so. You can sometimes trim as much as a quarter of an inch off of a cat's claws, though you want to avoid cutting it to the quick, since that hurts.

A how to with pictures (http://www.cat-world.com.au/catclaws.htm)

SoD

2008-01-10, 02:02 AM

Wow. A vs. thread has turned into a how to trim your cats claws...in the first page! :smallbiggrin:

Corwin Weber

2008-01-10, 02:21 AM

We all know that Mr. Scruffy isn't doomed, but on the other hand there's no way that Tsukio could ever have any trouble with him. Either way, I have a feeling that will find out next strip.

Except that with one seriously pissed off housecat clawing her face off there isn't much way she's going to maintain enough concentration to cast spells, making her effectively level 0.

Aside from this.... most people aren't aware of just how much damage a housecat can actually do. Not enough to kill someone.... but..... never back a feral cat into a corner. They could send you to the emergency room. Most animals go pretty ballistic if you corner them.... and a housecat can turn into a furry buzzsaw even under conditions that aren't life or death. Add in panic.... and.... you have a whirling furry ball of badness and hurtin. :)

holywhippet

2008-01-10, 03:08 AM

Cat claws can also be a source of diseases. I don't think Tsukiko's fortitude save is going to be so great.

David Argall

2008-01-10, 03:19 AM

Disease from cat scratches is not a factor here. Tsukiko can cure herself if she survives.

Kai Maera

2008-01-10, 03:23 AM

Disease from cat scratches is not a factor here. Tsukiko can cure herself if she survives.

If she survives. Bwahahahhaa!!!! Methinks that Scruffy, having just finished being the proverbial cat let out of the bag, is now the Chosen of Tyche, goddess of luck, and thus has the power of Plot behind him. Plot is like rolling twenties. Indeed, the power of plot can even make delicious sandwiches.

More importantly, they'll probably ditch her, Scruffy will run with and disappear as before, waiting for the next day he will be released upon a soft, unprotected face. Scruffy turned that blue bag into the ultimate Bag of Tricks. Surprise! Angry cat!

Kaerou

2008-01-10, 04:43 AM

Perhaps Mr Scruffy has rogue class levels! Maybe even multi-class Cat-burglar!

Sneak Attack!

WarriorTribble

2008-01-10, 05:23 AM

I'm gonna go with Scruffy claws Tsukiko eyes allowing for an easy escape. Here's hoping the resistance has a cleric...

Kimpire

2008-01-10, 05:43 AM

Except that with one seriously pissed off housecat clawing her face off there isn't much way she's going to maintain enough concentration to cast spells, making her effectively level 0.

Aside from this.... most people aren't aware of just how much damage a housecat can actually do. Not enough to kill someone.... but..... never back a feral cat into a corner. They could send you to the emergency room. Most animals go pretty ballistic if you corner them.... and a housecat can turn into a furry buzzsaw even under conditions that aren't life or death. Add in panic.... and.... you have a whirling furry ball of badness and hurtin. :)

I've actually had to back a feral cat into a corner.

I was working three jackets (two of them with hoods), two pairs of gloves, and three pairs of pants.

Trust me: You do not want to wear any less than that. Some of the clothes didn't survive.

Darke

2008-01-10, 06:49 AM

what possessed you to do that?

Orzel

2008-01-10, 06:50 AM

As a guy who has thrown angry cat at someone (a big someone), you eventually feel sorry for what you'll done. Tsukiko is "screwed".

Ruduen

2008-01-10, 02:47 PM

d'Bwobsling

2008-01-10, 02:51 PM

Wow. A vs. thread has turned into a how to trim your cats claws...in the first page! :smallbiggrin:

Weird how that happens, isn't it?

chibibar

2008-01-10, 02:59 PM

I know that sometimes real life and DnD world can't compare, but in real life a cat scratch hurts A LOT (personal experience in handling a mad cat) now... imagine a cat got out of a bag (cats don't like being in a bag from my experience) being flung at a person (also not like being thrown) to a person's face..

much much much pain....... Tsukiko is not a fighter but a caster, so she can't cast any spell to get the cat off and have to fight hand to hand. For comedic purpose I don't think Tsukiko has any rank in grappling or animal handling ;) so..... she will take a few round to get it off.

This is perfect distraction because Haley can handle the Paladin while Belkar take care of the Wights.

monty

2008-01-10, 09:01 PM

d'Bwobsling

2008-01-10, 09:16 PM

Statistically, a D&D house cat will kill a first-level commoner most of the time. So yes, they do hurt.

Cats have claws, but even if they're attacking a person with 4hp, a bab of 0, and all abilties at 11, they wouldn't be able to do anything against a d4 nonleathal unarmed attack, or a grapple, which, counting the cats tiny size penelty, and its str, has to be at least a -12, while a commoner would have a +0.

BisectedBrioche

2008-01-10, 09:26 PM

Its also worth noting that cats will instinctivly go for the eyes, being thrown someone's face will certainly aid that.

monty

2008-01-10, 09:27 PM

It'll probably come down to one attack (commoners get 1d4 HD, so they won't usually have 4 hp). Both will average 2 or 3 hitpoints, but a full attack by the cat will do at 3 damage if all hit (at +4/+4/-1 attack bonus), while a commoner's unarmed attack only does 1d3 (probably a 0 attack bonus). Also, a cat has an AC of 14 to a commoner's 10 (assuming average stats). As for a grapple, there's an AOO that'll probably screw them over.

mockingbyrd7

2008-01-10, 09:30 PM

No, actually they do that to sharpen their claws; cat's claws are like ogres, they have layers <snip>

Haha! Shrek reference, nice.

I know that sometimes real life and DnD world can't compare, but in real life a cat scratch hurts A LOT (personal experience in handling a mad cat) now... imagine a cat got out of a bag (cats don't like being in a bag from my experience) being flung at a person (also not like being thrown) to a person's face...

Agreed! I have my own crazy cat story:

It was a few years ago at the "Blessing of the Animals" at my church, where people bring their cats/dogs etc. to be blessed by the rector. Well, we brought our part-Golden Retriever and our Siberian Husky to be blessed (this is a big event at my church) and afterwards, some people were having their animals socialize with each other (on leash, of course). Well, a woman with her cat asked if the Husky was friendly; we said yes. So she conveniently placed her cat two inches from the Husky's face. Our Husky was perfectly content and sniffed it, but the cat FREAKED. The cat ran straight up the arm of the woman holding her and onto her head. Her struggles against the feline's unstoppable onslaught were nigh-useless, and in fact only made the cat's rending claws more devastating. Blood spattered the concrete as the terrified housecat went berserk. She was hospitalized with several deep slash marks on her head and face.

So yeah, I know what a shaken housecat can do.

As others have pointed out, Mr. Scruffy is probably stronger than the average housecat, since his claws haven't been trimmed in months, he's most likely in good health from the royal treatment, he's survived in a hobgoblin-infested city for months, he has a large fanbase, etc. Also, he has some advantages in this particular battle: he's angry, terrified, shaken up, was just launched at a high velocity straight for her face, etc..

Considering it's hard to concentrate on spells with a furious super-cat sunk into your face, I'd venture to say that Scruffy actually has a chance of winning. Not necessarily killing Tsukiko, but perhaps incapacitating her or getting out unscathed.

Its also worth noting that cats will instinctivly go for the eyes, being thrown someone's face will certainly aid that.

Go for the eyes, Scruffy! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAGH!

Penquin47

2008-01-10, 09:53 PM

My dad woke me up by throwing a cat at me once.

That cat did such severe damage, I thought I'd never get the drool out of my hair!

Cat drool.

The cat kind of likes me (I'm her favorite). I got woken up by purrs and snuzzles.

Mirrinus

2008-01-10, 09:56 PM

Makes you kind of wonder why Roy never pulled a cat out from his bag of tricks to hurl at his foe's face...

You know, I feel sorry for Mr. Scruffy, what with Lord Shojo dead and all.

Yendor

2008-01-10, 10:17 PM

Makes you kind of wonder why Roy never pulled a cat out from his bag of tricks to hurl at his foe's face...

Roy prefers a more subtle approach. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html)

krossbow

2008-01-10, 10:51 PM

The cat will most probably be attacking via sneak attack when fighting commoners (or high level mystical theurges :smallwink: ), so they have a fairly good chance of scoring 2 claws and a bite right off the bat vs. a commoner (+2 from dexterity, +2 for size vs. a commoner's 10). After that, their superior dexterity will give them the initiative, letting them once again let loose against the commoner. Only then, if the commoners is till up from the cat's 2 salvos (having luckily dodged some of them), will they be able to counter. And should the commoner try a grapple, they will provoke an AoO, and have to roll a 15 to grab them. the cat's just stacked against the poor fools.

brilliantlight

2008-01-11, 01:21 AM

From what I know of cats she should survive but she will be in a world of pain. An argry/scared cat is NO joke and I wouldn't like messing with one, particularly if it is thrown in my face.

Demi.

2008-01-11, 01:51 AM

I love the evolution in this thread, it covers most important things: all from Mr. Scruffy vs. Tsukiko to how to best groom your cat. Win!

shadowdemon_lord

2008-01-11, 02:13 AM

Agreed this thread is awsome. From Scruffy vs. Tsukiko, to grooming your cat, to personal stories of angry cats, back to Scruffy vs. Tsukiko!

no one special

2008-01-11, 02:20 AM

lets see, a pissed off and/or freaked out cat with a name thrown at the face vs. a high lvl magic user also with a name, Tsukio will survive this, as will Mr. Scruffy, Tsukio will be in a world of hurt and Mr. scruffy will run off shortly after

[EDIT] speaking of angry cat stories, I have a cat who would wait outside my sisters room, and attack her on sight, and this would continue whenever my cat saw her, and she was his ONLY target and (unlike our other pets) she never done anything to make it mad

Green and Red

2008-01-11, 06:53 AM

I already raised that point in the other thread, but i think i might add it here as well.

I think we can say that mr scruffy is not just a normal cat, for we see, (or hear) him getting three scratches in on tsukiko in the last panel. A normal cat cant do that, even with a full attack/sneak attack. However, most other cats (tiger,lion, the dire types and who knows what else) have an abillity called pounce, which allows them to make a full attack and bonus rake attacks when they charge an enemy. If we count the throw as a charge, can we assume that mr scruffy has pounce and rake (which by logic a normal cat should propably have) or does he have some other special abilities.

(Im aware we could count the three scratches as not exact and merely artistic... but that would be boring)

FaustianFeste

2008-01-11, 07:21 AM

this excerpt from D20srd:

Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d2-4)
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d2-4) and bite -1 melee (1d3-4)

Am I missing something here? All of you speak of cats killing commoners, but their damage is in the negatives. Unless you're speaking purely in terms of a CR comparison between cats and human commoners, which I can get, but purely mechanically it's impossible. They couldn't kill paper, much less cause any damage to Tsukiko (and hence, no Concentration check for casting spells, unless unless it's DM houseruled).

Green and Red

2008-01-11, 07:30 AM

Am I missing something here? All of you speak of cats killing commoners, but their damage is in the negatives. Unless you're speaking purely in terms of a CR comparison between cats and human commoners, which I can get, but purely mechanically it's impossible. They couldn't kill paper, much less cause any damage to Tsukiko (and hence, no Concentration check for casting spells, unless unless it's DM houseruled).
Im not completly sure, but i think the damage isnt reduced below one, so its always one, meaning two or three scratches to kill a commoner

Cant cite the exact rule, but if you click on the damage in d20srd.ord it always turns up as one

Voyager_I

2008-01-11, 07:33 AM

A successful attack always does a minimum of one damage, so those negative modifiers simply ensure that a cat will never inflict more than a single point of damage with any individual attack. Even if Mr. Scruffy has been officially dubbed Belkar's Animal Companion, the ensuing bonus isn't enough to overcome its abysmal base strength.

Edit:Just for clarity's sake, I'll add that attacks taking place during a Surprise Round are not automatically Sneak Attacks. Sneak Attack refers to a specific ability of Rogues and some other classes. A surprised opponent is automatically Flat Footed and loses their Dexterity Bonus to AC, making them easier to hit for all opponents, but they don't suffer extra damage like a Rogue's SA unless they're actually being attacked by a Rogue or other class with Sneak Attack.

FaustianFeste

2008-01-11, 08:01 AM

Ah yes. Forgot all about that rule.

Green and Red

2008-01-11, 08:08 AM

Just for clarity's sake, I'll add that attacks taking place during a Surprise Round are not Sneak Attacks. Sneak Attack refers to a specific ability of Rogues and some other classes. A surprised opponent is automatically Flat Footed and loses their Dexterity Bonus to AC, making them easier to hit, but they don't suffer extra damage like a Rogue's SA.

Sorry to correct you there, bu given that the rogua acts first

...The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC...

That means as far as i know that you indeed deal sneak attack damage in the suprise round given that he acts first

Voyager_I

2008-01-11, 08:30 AM

I was referring to the general assumption that all attacks against surprised opponents were "Sneak Attacks", whether they came from Thanh, Haley, or an angry kitty.

TheMeanDM

2008-01-11, 10:02 AM

this excerpt from D20srd:

Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d2-4) and bite -1 melee (1d3-4)

.

Whoever at wotc thought of a cat having -4 to damage is completely and utterly retardedly inept and must never, ever, have gotten a good clawing on their leg or arm or other body part.

It's painful and it bleeds.

This is a case where mechanics are totally out of whack. You can't deal "negative" damage.... "I claw you for -2 damage...err...um...did I just heal you?"

1d2, sure, I can see that. But -4? Puh-lease!!

monty

2008-01-11, 10:08 AM

Whoever at wotc thought of a cat having -4 to damage is completely and utterly retardedly inept and must never, ever, have gotten a good clawing on their leg or arm or other body part.

It's painful and it bleeds.

This is a case where mechanics are totally out of whack. You can't deal "negative" damage.... "I claw you for -2 damage...err...um...did I just heal you?"

1d2, sure, I can see that. But -4? Puh-lease!!

Cat has a strength of 3, hence -4 to damage. However,
If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of damage.

No negative damage. It's just always going to be 1.

chibibar

2008-01-11, 11:41 AM

When I GM, damage is never lower than 1. Now of course damage reduction may reduce it to 0, but the attacker will always general a damage of 1 on successful attack.

Like I said before, Tsukiko is a spell caster, casting any spell require some sort of concentration. A very pissed off cat on your FACE does couple of things.

1. Taking damage - I don't think Tsukiko has any damage reduction ability/spell active (maybe) so..... old rule was that if you are taking damage you need to do concentration check to cast spell.

2. Ability to see - the cat will claw, bite, maim your face. This hurts A LOT (again personal experience) so the only thing I personally will be seeing is the cat on my face. Everything else around me is a total blur. Most spells require you to see the target, thus..... unable to cast spells.

3. The pain.... oh god the pain............. PAIN!!! hehe... concentration check (technically falls under #1 example but man... the PAIN!!!)

Yea.. Tsukiko will be out of commission (not dead, but totally distracted) for a few rounds until she can get that cat off her face. If Mr. Scruffy is truly pissed, it will take some work since the cat will be moving all over and clawing/biting all over the place.

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-11, 11:55 AM

I just couldn't resist posting this over here too....what negative damage

*Originally posted in "Is that Mr Scruffy*

As promised yesterday...Ultimate (realatively speaking) Mr Scruffy the Animal Companion of Belkar the Beast Master

Tiny animal
HD: 8+ 1/2 (38)
Init: +2
Speed: 30 ft
AC: 22 (+2 sz +2 Dx + 8 Nt)
BA/ Grp: 6/ -3
Att: Claw +10 (1d3-1)
Full Att: 2 claws +10 (1d3-2) and bite +10 (1d4-2)
Space/ Reach: 2 1/2 ft./ 0 ft
SA: -
SQ: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +3
Abilities: Str 7 Dex 19, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +8, Hide +18, Jump +12, Listen +7
Move Silently +8, Spot +7
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse, Imp Nt Weapon (Claw),
Imp Nt Weapon (Bite), Imp Multiattack
Plus all those cool animal companion things like evasion and multiattack

Belker would cast these spells prior to combat:

Enrage Animal: +4 Morale to Str, Con +2 Morale to W saves -2 AC
Nature's Favor: +2 Luck bonus Attack and Damage
Animalistic Power: +2 Enhancement to Str, Dex, Con
Barkskin: +4 Enhancement to Natural Armor
Gr. Magic Fang: +2 Enhancement on all Natural Weapons
Animal Growth: +8 Sz to Str, +4 Sz to Con, -2 Sz to Dex, DR 10/ Magic
+4 Resistance to Saves

Feat- Shared Fury
Feat- Natural Bond

Sooo......Mr Scruffy in Combat would look like

Small Animal
HP 56 (92 when raging)
Init: +4
AC: 27 {23} (+1 Sz, +4 Dx, +12 Nt {-4 raging})
BA/ Grp +6/ +5 (+9 raging)
Attack: 2 claws +15 (1d3 + 3) and bite +15 (1d4 + 1)
Raging: 2 claws +18 (1d3 + 7) and bite +18 (1d4 + 3)
Saves: Fort 13 (17 raging) Ref 14, Will 7 (11 raging)
Abilities: Str17 (25), Dex 19, Con 16 (24), Int 2, Wis 12, Chr 7
DR 10/ Magic

A very credible flanking partner, of course this will never happen as Belkar is unlikely ever to have a Wisdom of 14 so that he can cast all of those spells (Animal Growth is a 4th level spell). Still, it's nice to imagine a Belker/ Mr Scruffy dream team.

TheMeanDM

2008-01-11, 01:47 PM

How do you know Belkar has spells?

He's never used them, not once, that I remember.

goldgecko4

2008-01-11, 01:58 PM

Pretty sure the best practical application that this has is to set Haley up for a sweet, sweet sneak attack.

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-11, 02:01 PM

Belkar does not in fact have spell, but that is because his character has a negative Wis modifier, as he himself said in an earlier comic. He has access to spells because of the ranger class, but doesn't have a high enough wisdom to cast them. that is why I put that last disclaimer on about it never happening because Belkar will never have the prerequisite 14 Wisdom score.

but if hed did...watch out.

chibibar

2008-01-11, 02:02 PM

How do you know Belkar has spells?

He's never used them, not once, that I remember.

good point. There were some scrolls that Belkar couldn't cast until V cast Owl's Wisdom. So maybe Belkar could cast spells but don't know (or forgotten) that he could :)

Kinda like Elan

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-11, 02:03 PM

xactly. xactly so.

selgnij

2008-01-11, 02:10 PM

Lets not forget, Mr. Scruffy is on Tsukiko, which means hitting him with a spell would be difficult. Area of effect is most certainly out, and practically speaking (not DnD rules, just logically) any single target spell, should it miss, is likely to hit Tsukiko herself.

Edit: ironicly, I can't spell spell.

chibibar

2008-01-11, 02:15 PM

Lets not forget, Mr. Scruffy is on Tsukiko, which means hitting him with a speel would be difficult. Area of effect is most certainly out, and practically speaking (not DnD rules, just logically) any single target spell, should it miss, is likely to hit Tsukiko herself.

yup.. most spell requires you to see the target unless you pick a feat (like blind casting or something homebrew) Tsukiko doesn't seem to have any physical hindrance (She not not blind, mute or deaf) so we can assume she cast all her spell normally like everyone else using V,S and C (Verbal, Semantic and Component)

it is hard to do any of the three with a cat in your face clawing your eyeballs out.

Also most spell requires a target, you visualize who are you targeting and aim the spell (usually by targeting, a point of a finger or "fling" the spell) again... hard to that with a cat in your face.

I love it!

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-11, 02:23 PM

'Course, the point of most buffs is to have them in place before you engage in combat....oddly enough just like Belkar was before he walked on screen and chatted with T.

Gilmiril

2008-01-11, 03:16 PM

Its also worth noting that cats will instinctivly go for the eyes, being thrown someone's face will certainly aid that.
Go for the eyes, Scruffy! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAGH!

Or the neck! Dr. Tongue shows us that cats going for the neck is also good in House of Cats (http://sctvguide.ca/cgi-bin/sctvmangler?Dr%20Tongue).

krossbow

2008-01-11, 03:54 PM

so then mr. scruffy can do maximum of 3 damage per round if full attacking. Alright. now then, assuming that tsukiko has taken some pretty hefty damage from haley up till now, then this could actually swing the fight some. if it gives them time to down her minions, and take her dominated paladin out (possibly break it, though I don't see how they'd go about doing that), then haley could end up with the upper hand here. After all, if Mr. scruffy is on one of of tsukiko's sides, then its just a quick tumble and dagger stab to a sneak attack from haley (flanking!)

Oberon

2008-01-11, 04:36 PM

Mr. Scruffy's definitely not just a housecat, though. After all, he got 3 scratch attacks through during the time that Tsukiko tried to get him off, so he's at least a moderate level. Otherwise, it would be two scratches and a bite. For a third scratch, he'd need to be a decent level. And, for all three to successfully hit, he'd probably have taken multiattack at some point.

Or maybe the 1st scratch was part of the surprise round, which scruffy would certainly get as Tsutsiko was not expecting a cat in the face, and did a move action and a partial attack. Then Scruffy rolled high on initiative and got to go again, using a full attack, but without the bite for some reason.

After all, if Mr. scruffy is on one of of tsukiko's sides, then its just a quick tumble and dagger stab to a sneak attack from haley (flanking!)

Scruffy does not grant a flanking bonus, because he is a tiny creature. Also, I don't think Haley carries any melee weapons, as she had to borrow Elans rapier last time she wanted to do a melee attack. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)

/end nitpick

Wrecan

2008-01-11, 06:13 PM

Mr. Scruffy's definitely not just a housecat, though. After all, he got 3 scratch attacks through during the time that Tsukiko tried to get him off
Cats get two claws and a bite with full attack. That bite might simply sound like a scratch.

Or Belkar fed the cat a potion of haste.

d'Bwobsling

2008-01-11, 06:44 PM

Cats get two claws and a bite with full attack. That bite might simply sound like a scratch.

Or Belkar fed the cat a potion of haste.

Belkar likes Mr. Scruffy, but he would never give some one else a potion that he has

Istari

2008-01-11, 07:02 PM

What damage do cats do at 1d3-4 and 1d2-4? wouldn't that be negitive damage

monty

2008-01-11, 07:58 PM

good point. There were some scrolls that Belkar couldn't cast until V cast Owl's Wisdom. So maybe Belkar could cast spells but don't know (or forgotten) that he could :)

Kinda like Elan

Rangers get spells, but they're based on wisdom. Meaning he needs a wisdom of 11, which he obviously doesn't have, to cast anything (rangers don't get level 0 spells), and 14 to cast his highest (that is, 4th level) spells - of course, that's assuming he's level 14, which he also has to be to cast any 4th level spells (and even then, he gets "0" per day, so he would need at least 18 wisdom for the bonus 4th level spells, or else he would have to be level 15 to cast them). Look at Spells per Day on the chart at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm if you want more details.

monty

2008-01-11, 08:01 PM

What damage do cats do at 1d3-4 and 1d2-4? wouldn't that be negitive damage

May I direct you to http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69088&page=2#post3775758, another post in this same thread, which answers your question? Read previous posts before you ask something that's already been answered.

d'Bwobsling

2008-01-11, 09:15 PM

May I direct you to http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69088&page=2#post3775758, another post in this same thread, which answers your question? Read previous posts before you ask something that's already been answered.

meh. You can't expect people to go through 3 pages of this, before asking a question

monty

2008-01-11, 09:28 PM

meh. You can't expect people to go through 3 pages of this, before asking a question

Sure I can. It doesn't mean it'll happen, though.

Voyager_I

2008-01-11, 10:05 PM

At least it wasn't, you know, a rant posted immediately after an explanation of how a hit always deals at least 1 damage (before DR etc.), like that guy on the other page...

Doug Lampert

2008-01-12, 12:04 AM

meh. You can't expect people to go through 3 pages of this, before asking a questionYes I can. Why in the world should I be expected to answer someone who I KNOW doesn't actually read the thread? Why should I read the post of anyone who can't be bothered to read the thread?

Reading the reactions thread prior to posting to reactions is a fairly MINIMAL courtesy and should reasonably be expected of anyone, and I don't care if the thread is 200 pages, if it's too long, don't post. You're just making the problem worse for everyone else while indicating clearly that you won't benefit from the contents of the thread and are unlikely to make any substantial contribution.

d'Bwobsling

2008-01-12, 09:22 PM

Yes I can. Why in the world should I be expected to answer someone who I KNOW doesn't actually read the thread? Why should I read the post of anyone who can't be bothered to read the thread?

Reading the reactions thread prior to posting to reactions is a fairly MINIMAL courtesy and should reasonably be expected of anyone, and I don't care if the thread is 200 pages, if it's too long, don't post. You're just making the problem worse for everyone else while indicating clearly that you won't benefit from the contents of the thread and are unlikely to make any substantial contribution.

Well, what if people don't want to put that much time and effert into putting up a post. probably over 90% of the people here don't even bother with puncuationno offence to anyone who does

Kish

2008-01-12, 09:45 PM

Well, what if people don't want to put that much time and effert into putting up a post. probably over 90% of the people here don't even bother with puncuation
That number's a little (which is to say, a lot--very few people who post here ignore punctuation) high. And, well, if they treat their own posts with such little respect, why should the same posts be worth responding to for anyone else?

BRC

2008-01-12, 09:53 PM

Arkenputtyknife

2008-01-12, 11:53 PM

Well, what if people don't want to put that much time and effert into putting up a post. probably over 90% of the people here don't even bother with puncuation
They don't get read. Seriously. If someone can't be bothered to put a little effort into getting their post right (I don't expect perfection, but I do expect an attempt), it will be hard to read and no one is under any obligation to waste their time deciphering it. Too lazy to punctuate? Too lazy to read junk.

This does not apply to people who are genuinely struggling with the language, only to those who can't be bothered to make the effort.

And no, the figure is not “over 90%”. Nowhere near. That's just another made-up statistic.

monty

2008-01-13, 02:31 AM

That's just another made-up statistic.

Just one of the 65% of statistics that are made up on the spot. And the other 40% are often questionable.
For those that didn't get that, those added up to more than 100%.

Kimpire

2008-01-13, 02:52 AM

what possessed you to do that?

Sheer necessity, a ticking clock, and temporary insanity.

Never again.

Irbis

2008-01-13, 07:31 AM

I know that sometimes real life and DnD world can't compare, but in real life a cat scratch hurts A LOT (personal experience in handling a mad cat) now... imagine a cat got out of a bag (cats don't like being in a bag from my experience) being flung at a person (also not like being thrown) to a person's face..

They don't? :smallconfused:

The very first thing my cat does when somebody with a backet or backpack walks into my room is to hide in the said bag. If it was used to carry meat or other smelly food he will be there before you can put it on the ground.

Of course, he is pretty weird cat, with many quirks :smallsigh:

Bayar

2008-01-13, 08:03 AM

The thing is, Mr Scruffy cannot be a normal cat...and will not die easily...because it has a NAME ! Also, I think that he will still slash Tsukiko's face for about 5-10 comics...even if it is off-panel :smallbiggrin:

Damocles

2008-01-13, 08:48 AM

so those negative modifiers simply ensure that a cat will never inflict more than a single point of damage with any individual attack.

Not quite right ;-)

1d3-4 might deal some devastating 2 Points of DMG on an crit. Hit.

cucchulainnn

2008-01-13, 11:44 AM

never underestimate the epic level of house cats. and this cat is a mere tabby no where near the level of Mr. Scruffy.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060613-cat-bear.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/images/060613-cat-bear_big.jpg

look at the expression on the bears face you can see it is embarrassed. :smallbiggrin:

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/News/AnimalPhotos/Animals_81-90/catchasesbear2.jpg

monty

2008-01-13, 12:49 PM

Mr. Scruffy must have a pretty nice grapple check there.

As for his actual race, I think I'm going with half-fiendish, half-celestial, half-dragon, sanctified legendary dire werecat of legend. Or something like that.

Nerdanel

2008-01-13, 04:26 PM

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

You automatically lose an attempt to hold if the target is two or more size categories larger than you are.

Since Mr. Scruffy is tiny and Tsukiko is medium, Mr. Scruffy should NEVER be able to grapple Tsukiko. In any case, a housecat's grapple modifier is -12 while Tsukiko's is +6 without the strength modifier, which means that even if her strength is 3, her grapple modifier would still be positive, giving the definite upper hand.

So if Tsukiko had Str 3 and rolled 1 on her opposed grapple roll resulting in a total score of 3, Mr. Scruffy would have to roll a natural 16 or better on d20 to beat her. (In the case of a tie Tsukiko would win, since she had the higher modifier.) But this could never happen since Mr. Scruffy is a size category too small.

Parvum

2008-01-13, 09:09 PM

...Isn't there some special climb-grapple 'clapple' rule out there somewhere? The idea of tiny creatures (or any creature facing something two size categories larger) hanging onto some part of a larger being is just the cinematic sort of thing you'd expect from the game.

Voyager_I

2008-01-13, 09:33 PM

Plot or comedy individually have the power to bend reality (and the rules of D&D) in favor of a character. Mr. Scruffy currently has both on his side, so he's essentially invulnerable.

I suppose Rich Could've also done a parody with his other characters.

"Wait, how did you pull an angry cat off your face without even getting a scratch? That thing was going crazy!"

"What are you talking about? It's tiny, it can't even initiate a grapple against me."

..and yeah, climbing rules would be cool, but if you've ever had red ants crawling up your leg then you know exactly how dangerous it can be for the climber...

Kai Maera

2008-01-13, 09:37 PM

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

Since Mr. Scruffy is tiny and Tsukiko is medium, Mr. Scruffy should NEVER be able to grapple Tsukiko. In any case, a housecat's grapple modifier is -12 while Tsukiko's is +6 without the strength modifier, which means that even if her strength is 3, her grapple modifier would still be positive, giving the definite upper hand.

So if Tsukiko had Str 3 and rolled 1 on her opposed grapple roll resulting in a total score of 3, Mr. Scruffy would have to roll a natural 16 or better on d20 to beat her. (In the case of a tie Tsukiko would win, since she had the higher modifier.) But this could never happen since Mr. Scruffy is a size category too small.

If she rolled a natural 1 it wouldn't matter what her strength or grapple bonus would be.
And Scruffy isn't grappling - he's climbing and scratching, as cats tend to.

BisectedBrioche

2008-01-13, 11:50 PM

If she rolled a natural 1 it wouldn't matter what her strength or grapple bonus would be.
And Scruffy isn't grappling - he's climbing and scratching, as cats tend to.

In the rules, any attempt to cling on to an enemy qualifies as a grapple.

Demented

2008-01-14, 01:00 AM

In the rules, there is no such thing as an attempt to cling to an opponent. However, I believe if you're small enough you can (or -must-) attack someone from within their own square.

Voyager_I

2008-01-14, 01:15 AM

Tiny and smaller creatures (I think?) have no reach, and so have to occupy the same square as an opponent to attack them. Note that moving into their square does provoke attacks of opportunity. Also note that this doesn't equate to clinging to their face.

Juron Pilo

2008-01-14, 02:18 AM

Scruffy didn't move, Scruffy was thrown.

:smallannoyed:

Voyager_I

2008-01-14, 03:19 AM

I know, I was just pointing it out for completion's sake. We're already pretty far out of the normal rules.

Frosty

2008-01-14, 01:12 PM

I'd rule that Scruffy is a new cobatant entering combat, and he gets to roll initiative. He probably rolled high, and gets to catch Tsukiko flat-footed. Hence, no AoO from Tsukiko.

chibibar

2008-01-14, 03:18 PM

Maybe Maybe (as stated before) Tsukiko is afraid of cats ;) that is another bonus for Mr. Scruffy.

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-14, 04:11 PM

A new combatatnt enters at the top of the order, and does'nt usually catch anyone flat-footed, but this is a special case since Mr Scruffy is effectively attacking from invisibility (ie. the inside of the bag).

Does my post rate being ignored since I didn't use a period after Mr.?

Crimson Avenger

2008-01-14, 04:13 PM

For the record, Tsukio has only lasted this long because Mr Scruffy has been holding back. I found a picture revealing the true identity of Mr Scruffy
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/elgor1/tom20645e7547bc1424.jpg

You sir, are a genius. You made coffee shoot from my nose.

**Ranged touch attack that caught my moniter flat-footed.**

Enkidu

2008-01-18, 01:41 AM

edit: doh, somebody thought of this already, complete with full stats of a buff Mr. Scruffy Animal Companion ( http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69088&page=2#post3775758 )

I'm sure it's been brought up by somebody else plenty of strips earlier already, but it just occurred to me that Mr. Scruffy can be Belkar's Animal Companion, and that would probably make him quite a bit more powerful. :)

I know "house cat" isn't a standard companion as per SRD, but that would make some amount of sense and plenty of amusement. If Belkar has 12 levels of Ranger (um, I know somebody derived his minimum ranger levels but I'm too lazy to hunt it down) that means Mr. Scruffy has

+4 Bonus HD, +4 Natural Armor Adj., +2 Str/Dex Adj., 3 Bonus Tricks, and Link, share spells, Evasion, and Devotion.

I'm sure somebody can tally up the kitty's stats to make it remotely plausible for Mr. Scruffy to become rather effective at claw-to-face fighter. :)

Tass

2008-01-18, 02:56 AM

David Argall

2008-01-18, 03:13 AM

who the *** trims their cats claws? Is that an american thing? I don't know anyone who trims the claws of their cats.

How is the poor cat going to climb trees or catch mice with trimmed claws?

How is the cat going claw the furniture, your leg, and just about everything except the scratching post?

Kish

2008-01-18, 07:14 AM

Sorry to revive and old topic of this thread.

But who the *** trims their cats claws? Is that an american thing? I don't know anyone who trims the claws of their cats.

How is the poor cat going to climb trees or catch mice with trimmed claws?
My SO and I have two cats. One actually trims her own claws with her teeth. The other is a mutant: she has an extra toe on each paw. She needs her claws trimmed every six weeks, or they'd grow right into her paw-pads. We have a vet do it; we can tell when it's getting close to time because she climbs into her cat carrier--so it appears having her claws not trimmed bothers her.

hamishspence

2008-01-20, 02:13 PM

Two different things. Trimming means removing excess claw that the cat has not removed. Declawing removes the whole thing which doesn't grow back.

Declawing is sometimes considered cruel, since it removes the cat's main means of defense, hunting tool, and social interaction tool. cats naturally scratch things, that is what scratching posts are for.

SteveMB

2008-01-20, 02:18 PM

Sorry to revive and old topic of this thread.

But who the *** trims their cats claws? Is that an american thing? I don't know anyone who trims the claws of their cats.

How is the poor cat going to climb trees or catch mice with trimmed claws?

Our cats' claws tend to overgrow a bit, so they click on the floor and snag on the carpet, if they don't get trimmed every so often. They have scratching posts and use them (usually with an ostentatious "look at me, I'm a good kitty" display for the humans), but it's apparently not enough by itself.

(They're indoor cats, so trees and mice aren't an issue.)

Blanth

2008-01-20, 03:31 PM

You are all forgetting something important.

Mr. Scruffy is no ordinary housecat. He is a castlecat!

John Campbell

2008-01-21, 01:29 PM

Not quite right ;-)

1d3-4 might deal some devastating 2 Points of DMG on an crit. Hit.

No... a crit is a single doubled attack, not two single attacks, so the "minimum 1" should be applied after the doubling, not before.

It's: (1d3-4 + 1d3-4), min. 1

Not: (1d3-4, min. 1) + (1d3-4, min. 1)

Roland Deschain

2008-01-21, 02:50 PM

i have only read to page 2 so forgive me if i am reposting, but you all are under the assumption that mr scruffy is afraid, as opposed to belkar telling him what to do with his animal affinity, that way mr scruffy can go for maximum distraction instead of just being afraid and angry

Roland Deschain

2008-01-21, 02:54 PM

also, declawing usually only removes the FRONT claws, which the cat uses to scratch furniture. a cats back claws are the ones it uses for defense

John Campbell

2008-01-22, 05:11 PM

also, declawing usually only removes the FRONT claws, which the cat uses to scratch furniture. a cats back claws are the ones it uses for defense

Cats use all four sets of claws for defense. If you watch a catfight, you'll see that they usually start with reaching strikes with the forepaws, then transition to grappling, in which they use their front claws to anchor their opponent while raking with the back claws.

Also, one of their primary defense mechanisms against anything that falls on the "flight" side of the equation is climbing, and that's difficult without their front claws. They don't have opposable thumbs, so they need those built-in crampons on all four feet.