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Orak
2008-01-10, 08:36 PM
I am playing a rogue 3/ranger 2 and I am looking for some advancement ideas. Feats, other classes, prestige classes, etc. Whatever you can come up with.

The rest of the character details are as follows.

NG Elven rogue/ranger

16 Str
20 Dex
16 Con
10 Int
17 Wis
17 Cha

Feats: Improved initiative, TWF (from ranger), weapon finesse.

I know this is a far from optimized character but it is what I envisioned when I came up with the character concept. The first few levels have been lots of fun but I just don't know what to do at higher levels. Hence the post.

Balkash
2008-01-10, 08:52 PM
Efficient Defender [feat], Impeding Stones [spell] from Cityscape.
Sea Legs [feat], Mountaineer [feat] from Frostburn.

Frostburn ones are good for uping skill checks, the stuff from Cityscape it AC boost and neat spell. Why don't you tell us what kinda of character you're going for. You said it wasn't optimized, but that's because you're going for a specific style?

Wordmiser
2008-01-10, 08:59 PM
First, if I were you, I would approach my DM to ask if I could just keep taking Rogue levels without dealing with the experience penalty (Ranger isn't an inappropriate Favored class for an Elf, is it?).
Then, I would propose a multiclass feat which would basically just be Swift Hunter from Complete Scoundrel with "Scout" replaced with "Rogue" and "Skirmish" replaced with "Sneak Attack."

Because what you have really wouldn't be a bad skillmonkey if you could keep advancing it without sacrificing your combat ability entirely.

You could probably qualify for half of the Prestige classes in Complete Adventurer by level 7. Maybe give that book a looking over.

Orak
2008-01-10, 09:33 PM
reply to Balkash

Designed the character to be a skill monkey but chose charisma over intelligence because I had planned the character to be dashing instead of smart. Able to talk out of a corner before fighting.

I would like to take more levels in rogue but there is the xp penalty that makes that painful. I was hoping for a prestige class that expands on the rogue side of the charater. Stealth and skills as well as some roguish combat. I was thinking of taking staggering strike when I get a +6 BAB cause it leans toward the rogue side of the character and would help with combat control (our party can do a lot of basic damage but lacks the ability to control combat).

Wordmiser
2008-01-10, 09:46 PM
Next level will be a Ranger level, no?

At 7, enter Bloodhound (CAd) for a level or two. It's a solid class--its abilities are nowhere near gamebreaking, but they're worthwhile for any character who doesn't have spellcasting to lose.

After that, hit Nightsong Enforcer (CAd again). It's a full BAB class with decent skills, 4/10 Sneak Attack, and class abilities which are centered around combat Roguery.

Craig1f
2008-01-11, 11:33 AM
Get Swift Ambusher from Complete Scoundral if you are doing Ranger/Rogue. That's easily your most important feat.

It lets Rogue and Ranger levels stack for the purpose of Skirmish I believe. I don't know if it works in the reverse for sneak attack.

Frosty
2008-01-11, 11:41 AM
Rogue doesn't give skirmish. You may be thinking about a feat Swift Hunter that lets Ranger and Scout levels stack for skirmish.

Wordmiser
2008-01-11, 11:53 AM
I don't know if it works in the reverse for sneak attack.It doesn't advance Sneak Attack, either, so it works best if you have Rogue as a Favored class.

But, like Frosty said, it doesn't matter now anyway.

Spiryt
2008-01-11, 12:18 PM
Do you have spell compendium? There are many nice ranger spells here. Taking 4 levels of ranger would allow you to have things likeSniper shot (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/spellbooks2.pl) (see here for more). The only problem is that there will be only one spell/day, at lest if you don't have Wisdom of 20.

You can then go Assasin, and you will have more spells like that. And ranger levels will give you additional spell(s), good BAB and Fort save, e.c. You would however have to swap Intelligence with Cha or Constitution.

And going 20 Wisdom isn't so stupid idea, as it will give you additional spell per level, nice skill bonuses, and of course bonus to your only weak save. Would your DM allow you to swap Dex and Wisdom?

You have sick stats BTW.

KIDS
2008-01-11, 12:40 PM
You might not be (and don't need to) optimized or anything, but your Rogue 3/Ranger 2 is a classic start combination to Horizon Walker, which is a solidly rounded PrC. Take another level of Ranger to get Endurance and 6+ ranks in Knowledge (Geography) and then Horizon Walker 7 or so levels for Darkvision, Immunity to Fatigue, Dimension Door, Tremorsense and such goodies which seem to fit with your concept.
Otherwise, proceeding just plain rogue/ranger evenly is a fine tactic as well since both classes work ok together and are solidly balanced themselves.

Darrin
2008-01-11, 12:53 PM
First, if I were you, I would approach my DM to ask if I could just keep taking Rogue levels without dealing with the experience penalty (Ranger isn't an inappropriate Favored class for an Elf, is it?).


Depends on the subrace. Wood Elves have ranger as favored class, but the Int penalty doesn't jibe well with a skillmonkey role. Another option would be to take another Elf subrace but apply the Desert template (Dragon #306, LA +0), which would switch your favored class to ranger.


Get Swift Ambusher from Complete Scoundral if you are doing Ranger/Rogue. That's easily your most important feat.

It lets Rogue and Ranger levels stack for the purpose of Skirmish I believe. I don't know if it works in the reverse for sneak attack.

No, it lets Rogue and Scout levels stack for skirmish damage. The table description says it stacks for sneak attack, but the text doesn't (text trumps table, I believe). Since he doesn't have any scout levels, not a lot of help there. As Wordmiser suggests, creating a homebrew feat similar to Swift Ambusher (maybe "Ambush Hunter" or "Outlaw Hunter"?) to stack Ranger and Rogue levels for sneak attack might be nice.

Otherwise, pick up Staggering Blow ASAP (which you can pick up next level). Combining it with Craven is lots of fun (Champions of Ruin, +1 sneak damage per character level), but I can't remember if its a 1st level only feat. There's a recent thread on the best sneak attack feats:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69065

Of all the prestige classes that progress sneak attack damage, Darkwood Stalker jumps out as ideal for a rogue/ranger (CompWar p. 23, you're already an elf, pick up +1 BAB and Dodge at 6th level and you're qualified). It doesn't get a LOT of sneak progression (just 3d6), but the full BAB is nice if you want to pick up Power Attack/Leap Attack later.

Another good pick would be Nightsong Enforcer (CompAdv p. 61). 4d6 sneak over 10 levels, full BAB, and you already have Improved Initiative, so you could get Staggering Blow at level 6, pick up another level of either Ranger or Rogue, and you're ready to go into that at level 7.

Some of the headaches with sneak attack are making sure you can flank and enemies that are immune to precision damage. Some workarounds:

1) Dragontouched + Dragonfire Strike feats (both in Dragon Magic). This converts your sneak attack damage into fire damge, or you can switch it to another energy type if you can pick up Draconic Heritage.

2) White Raven Defense + Clarion Commander feats (both from Tome of Battle). Make an Intimidate DC 20 check as a standard action, target is considered flanked for 10 rounds. No range requirement, no way the target can prevent it, although I'm a bit fuzzy on if it works on targets with Improved Uncanny Dodge.

3) Distracting Attack, alternate class feature (PHB2 p. 55), give up your animal companion at Ranger 4 to render any target you hit flanked for 1 round or until hit by an ally. I'm not sure how this works with a Ranger/Rogue, though... if you attack twice, does your second attack count as coming from an ally?

4) There's an alternate class feature in Dungeonscape that lets you drop trapsense to do half sneak damage to undead/constructs/oozes.

Person_Man
2008-01-11, 03:45 PM
I would avoid progressing the Ranger side any further. You just end up getting a weak animal companion and weaker spells. If you do decide to continue with Ranger, see if you can use the Complete Champion variants to dump them and pick up bonus feats and Skills.

As far as feats go, I highly suggest Staggering Strike from Comp Adventurer. When you Sneak Attack an enemy with a melee attack, they must Save or be Staggered for one round, limiting them to a single Move or Standard action. Comp Adventurer. The Save DC is based on your total damage.

Craven from Champions of Ruin would also be a good idea, as it gives you a +1 bonus to damage per character level on every Sneak Attack.

Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon gives you a dragon's frightful presence, which can be devastating, since fear effects stack. Fits perfectly with the concept of a high Cha Rogue.

As far as PrC go, some good Skillful choices would be Assassin, Beast Heart Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=4), Fang of Lloth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) (if you want to be a traitor Elf), Avenging Executioner (Comp Scoundrel), or Dragon Devotee (Races of the Dragon).

Chronicled
2008-01-11, 06:45 PM
I would avoid progressing the Ranger side any further. You just end up getting a weak animal companion and weaker spells. If you do decide to continue with Ranger, see if you can use the Complete Champion variants to dump them and pick up bonus feats and Skills.

The Player's Handbook 2 Ranger variant would also work well with this.

Orak
2008-01-11, 11:02 PM
Thanks for all the great ideas. I have to take some time and read through all the options that have been posted.

Craven sounds good cause it would allow me to increase my sneak attack regardless of the class progression that I chose. Staggering strike is one that I have been looking at for a while. Just need a few more BAB to qualify.

As for stat adjustments I am stuck with what I have (not that I am complaining, I rolled really well. We usually use 32pt buy to avoid crazy stats like these).

I am going to avoid any of the evil PRC's as my character is NG. The Nightsong Enforcer, Darkwood Stalker and Horizon Walker sound good but I don't have to books onhand at the moment to look them up. When I get together with my gaming group I will be able to choose.

Thanks for all the great suggestions. If anything else comes to mind just add it to the thread.