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Idea Man
2008-01-11, 11:25 PM
I was thinking of running a game in the future where I would reduce the LA for all races by one, down to a minimum of zero plus hit dice. This would make all the lesser examples like aasimar, genasi, and hobgoblins (just off the top of my head) practical, or, at least, not painful to play.

Are there any races I should make exceptions for, or not allow, that would be too juicy to pass up? How about templates?

If level matters, I'm expecting a 1st to 4th level group.

blue_fenix
2008-01-11, 11:34 PM
The only exception I can think of immediately is templates like "Dark" or "Mineral Warrior" that can be added to any creature and normally count as LA+1. If you go this route, only reduce the total LA after templates by 1, e.g. a "Dark" Tiefling should be LA+1, not LA+0. Otherwise a player could stack loads of templates on a nice LA+1 race like Goliath for little to no cost.

SpiderMew
2008-01-11, 11:53 PM
DONT DO IT!!!!!!

I implore you! Do not do it!
Level Adjustments are there for a reasion.
Some races i think should have a LA that dont (like dragonborn need a level adjustment cuz they are very breakable)

Unless you want your players to toatly take over, and totaly rape your game, ide suggest keeping the la right were it is.

Kizara
2008-01-12, 12:02 AM
DONT DO IT!!!!!!

I implore you! Do not do it!
Level Adjustments are there for a reasion.
Some races i think should have a LA that dont (like dragonborn need a level adjustment cuz they are very breakable)

Unless you want your players to toatly take over, and totaly rape your game, ide suggest keeping the la right were it is.

Stop killing Kobolds.

Nebo_
2008-01-12, 12:20 AM
Do you mean you reduce a character's LA by one or a race/template's?

You would get more people playing odd races, but it wouldn't create any balance issues unless you allowed overpowered things like Feral. The only problem I see is that you're not doing anything about the existing +0 races.

Spidermew doesn't seem to know what he's talking about and is horribly overreacting.

Snadgeros
2008-01-12, 12:22 AM
Stop killing Kobolds.

*Looks at my sig....*

Oh my Heironeous! It actually caught on?! SWEET!

Idea Man
2008-01-12, 12:27 AM
@blue_fenix: I agree stacking shouldn't mix the benefits. Tiefling plus dark minus one is still plus one, which is fine. Probably not a problem by my group, but that's why I'm asking opinions here.

@SpiderMew: You think it's that bad? How broken would a straight orc, for example, really be as a PC?

@Kizara: I love kobolds. They are my number one favorite enemies to use against my players, because they're so easy to boost (CR 1/4? Third level kobold warriors are equal to first level orc warriors?! Hah!) One of my favorite characters was a kobold. It's just so darn hard to give these perks to PCs without a total breakdown of mechanics. But, now that you mention it, it might be fun to try... :smallamused:

Edit: Ohhh, I get it now! Duh. Cool sig.

Idea Man
2008-01-12, 12:33 AM
@Nebo_: At first I was confused, but in this context, the simplest way to put it is "reduce the character's level adjustment by one". It does simplify the request, doesn't it? :smallredface:

SpiderMew
2008-01-12, 12:36 AM
A stright ork is fine if you keep that level adjustment.
Ive been in games with people playing Level Adjustment characters, and everything worked just fine.
But doing this will also underpower the base races.
Humans, elfs and all the basic races are 1/2, but races like kobolds and goblins that are 1/3 and 1/4 will become useless.
Kobolds and goblins, when leveling up, work just like humans.
They get exp the same way and end up being allot weaker then a lv 1 human or any of the other bases races yet still concidered lv 1.
Its just, doing what your doing is going to screw over allot of races.
I hope what im typing is making sence, its late.

Chronicled
2008-01-12, 12:52 AM
Think of the kobolds!

Anyways, the idea is good. I've seen a nice game setup (starting level 8, I think) where players could choose between starting with either the LA of their race reduced by 1 (minimum zero), a bonus feat, or some extra xp that could only be used for item crafting pre-game.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-12, 01:28 AM
I was thinking of running a game in the future where I would reduce the LA for all races by one, down to a minimum of zero plus hit dice. This would make all the lesser examples like aasimar, genasi, and hobgoblins (just off the top of my head) practical, or, at least, not painful to play.

Are there any races I should make exceptions for, or not allow, that would be too juicy to pass up? How about templates?

If level matters, I'm expecting a 1st to 4th level group.

For me aasimar.... are just a +1 template that can be applied to any race who receive all their base racial abilities unless they are modified by the template but not everyone treats them that way so just be consistent and determine how ECLs are treated in your campaign.

Take a Dragonblooded +1LA, Dark +1LA Human. The human has +2 in LA with LA buydown rules IMO he should be able to pay them both down before leveling up to 4th twice if he wishes because the benefits received from the templates are not comparable to +2 LA templates like Half Fey, Phrenic and Shadow creature which would now all be +1 LA races in your game. +2LA Karsites are another strong race for noncasters as a +1LA race.

The +1 LA Shadowwalker template would be reduced to +0.

PGtF has introduced the +0 LA lite Planetouched which are pretty nice in a nonplanar campaign.

+0 LA Planetouched, Phrenic Kobold would normally be +2 LA but now is only +1 LA now throw in a feat like Magic in the Blood (Increases All daily spell like abilitties from 1/day to 3/day) for the Sorcerer PC Kobold who is getting +6 Charisma boosts from the two templates and can take advantage of some of the Races of the Dragons options.

Wordmiser
2008-01-12, 02:27 AM
A stright ork is fine if you keep that level adjustment.
Ive been in games with people playing Level Adjustment characters, and everything worked just fine.
But doing this will also underpower the base races.
There are very few races with anything which can compare to a free feat, free multiclassing and a scaling skill bonus. Humans outclass just about every level adjusted race in the books.
I might not extend the level adjustment reduction to templates (none would be free, at least), but overall I don't see any problems.

Nebo_
2008-01-12, 02:52 AM
I hope what im typing is making sence, its late.

It didn't.


@Nebo_: At first I was confused, but in this context, the simplest way to put it is "reduce the character's level adjustment by one". It does simplify the request, doesn't it?

The _ is silent. Yes, it certainty would go a long way in preventing those feral mineral warrior draconic Goliaths.

Idea Man
2008-01-12, 07:14 PM
Mmm, yes, sorry Nebo. Cut and paste is sometimes a bit sloppy in the details.

@SpiderMew: I agree, normally, that a blanket reduction in level adjustment isn't warranted. This is for fun. Both my players, and myself, avoid playing level adjusted races and templates because of the loss of level. I'm just thinking of a more liberal game, for a change.

@CASTLEMIKE: Okay, I've heard of the buyoff rules, but I've never seen them. Where should I look for them? I don't expect I'll need them right away, but I always like to be as informed as possible.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 07:18 PM
+0 LA Planetouched, Phrenic Kobold would normally be +2 LA but now is only +1 LA now throw in a feat like Magic in the Blood (Increases All daily spell like abilitties from 1/day to 3/day) for the Sorcerer PC Kobold who is getting +6 Charisma boosts from the two templates and can take advantage of some of the Races of the Dragons options.

Phrenic is +3 reduced to +2. Nevermind, was thinking of Celestial. Level adjustment buydown rules are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

Idea Man
2008-01-12, 07:30 PM
Thank you Fax. I didn't have a clue it was there! Teach me to get complacent. :smalltongue:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-13, 12:42 AM
Sorry about that I would have posted the link if Fax hadn't.