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Swooper
2008-01-12, 01:05 PM
In February, I'll be starting a new campaign. We're gonna try gestalt rules for the first time, along with allowing a lot of new books (including XPH and ToB) into our game. Basically, an no-gates barred high powered game before 4th Edition comes 'round.

I've already decided that I'll be playing a Psion//Warblade. The combo is just too delicious to skip, after I saw it mentioned on some gestalt thread a few weeks ago. My teammates will most likely be a cleric//crusader and a rogue//swordsage. I've thought a lot about which manouvres to select, when to drop the low level ones and so on (I'll be focusing on Diamond Mind with some Stone Dragon and Iron Heart thrown in when there's nothing fun to take from DM), but I'm somewhat uncertain which powers to take, so I came here. I was thinking of taking psychoportation as my chosen discipline, for the useful movement related powers it has (psionic flight, psionic teleport) since we won't have an arcanist most likely. I'd like to focus on self/party buffing and utility, the party will no doubt have enough offensive firepower so I won't worry much about that.

Suggestions?

RTGoodman
2008-01-12, 02:01 PM
Looking at the psionic disciplines, the only two that seem like they'd be a good idea for a character like this are Psychoportation (as you've already seen), or Psychometabolism (for a character that uses his psionics to buff and then goes to town in melee). Also, it gives you hustle, which is one of the better psionic powers for a gish-like character (or psychic warrior-based builds).

Not sure about other specific powers, but I'd probably pick up at least one or two evocation-like powers (mind thrust, probably) in case you don't want to tangle with something in melee. Really, after that, just take some utility powers and then load up on buffs, since there are certainly enough of them on the general psion power list.

Shovah
2008-01-12, 03:01 PM
Psychofeedback. Its only Egoist(which is good)/Psychic Warrior apparently, but its great.
You get to boost one physical ability score(by an amount equal to or lower than your manifester level) by the amount that you damage one or more other ability scores.
Very handy for when you feel a need for +10 strength.

Chronicled
2008-01-12, 03:14 PM
My suggestion (after trying this gestalt combo out) is that you get a limited number of really good buffs, since you won't want to spend either the time or the power points to use a huge number of buffs before every fight. Having about 4 really good ones is all you'll need, so that later you can use a swift buff and a standard action buff for two rounds pre-fight. Have a couple more situational buffs, and you're set.

Here's suggestions for levels 1-8 (although I can't argue with anything from the Telepath list; they're really good selections). After that, it's going to depend more and more on what your DM does. This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=330655), this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=839267), and this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041) should also prove handy.

Utility
Level 1
Attraction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/attraction.htm) - an extremely useful power with many possible uses
Energy Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm) or Crystal Shard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crystalShard.htm) - sometimes you need to blast something, and touch attacks scale really well
Psionic Grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/greasePsionic.htm) - all the beauty of the original. Since its DC doesn't scale, swap it later and/or get a djorie of it
Detect Psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/detectPsionics.htm) - ideally, your DM will have the transparency rules apply for this
Missive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/missive.htm) - who needs telepathy when you have this?
Skate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/skate.htm) - so you want to haul the adamantine door back to town to sell, eh? Also adds battlefield mobility
Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm) - Shaper list. Better if you're not using the CPsi errata, still useful if you are.
Psionic Charm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/charmPsionic.htm) - Telepath list. Charm Person and Charm Monster, all in one!

Level 2
Control Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlSound.htm) - one of the best utility powers in the game; it acts like 3 different spells (Ghost Sound, Silence, Ventriloquism) with even more versatility. Have fun with this one
Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm) - Charisma damage even on a successful save, dazed if they fail. Good against Cha-casters and things with very low Cha
Psionic Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/knockPsionic.htm) - making rogues redundant, like the original
Mass Missive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/missiveMass.htm) - even better than Missive
Levitate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/levitatePsionic.htm) - very useful if you're a nomad as it affects other creatures/things
Dimension Swap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dimensionSwap.htm) - extremely useful for shaping the battlefield, switching who's being grappled, etc. Can also swap positions with your psicrystal (which can get about anywhere)
Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm) - Kineticist list. Best blasting power there is, if you don't use the CPsi errata
Psionic Suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/suggestionPsionic.htm) - Telepath list. Making things do what you want since 2004

Level 3
Dispel Psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispelPsionics.htm) - you need this. Every spellcaster should be able to dispel
Time Hop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) - very useful. Impassable doors can be "hopped" into the future while your group darts in, an enemy can be forced to sit out the fight while you buff or beat on his friends, etc
Telekinetic Force (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticForce.htm) - move things with your mind
Telekinetic Thrust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticThrust.htm) - fling 50 greatswords at an enemy
Psionic Blast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicBlast.htm) - being stunned is harsh. Stunning several opponents at once is great
Hustle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm) - Egoist list. Use a swift action to get a move action

Level 4
Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) - you can take this, adjust your earlier decisions, and then Psychic Reformat it away for something else; or you can keep it for an expensive on-the-fly adjustment of your powers
Correspond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/correspond.htm) - better than Seeming
Psionic Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/flyPsionic.htm) - the reason you're a nomad
Wall of Ectoplasm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/wallofEctoplasm.htm) - shape the battlefield
Death Urge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/deathUrge.htm) - fun, especially on a BBEG
Psionic Divination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/divinationPsionic.htm) - good intel will keep you alive
Psionic Dominate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dominatePsionic.htm) - Telepath list. Once you hit level 11 (1 day/level) find the biggest, baddest enemy you can, then spam this until they fail their save. Have fun with your new "ally"

Buffs and the like
Level 1
Force Screen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/forceScreen.htm) - now you don't need a shield. You can swap this out with Psychic Reformation if you get an animated shield.
Defensive Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognitionDefensive.htm) - insight bonuses are hard to come by
Offensive Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognitionOffensive.htm) - make sure your maneuvers hit
Offensive Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/prescienceOffensive.htm) - less important than Offensive Precognition since your maneuvers will supply extra damage
Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) - better than having DR, depending on the circumstances
Expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm) - Psychic Warrior list. Get reach... a lot of reach. Works great with a Warblade's bonus to AoO.

Level 2
Animal Affinity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/animalAffinity.htm) - Egoist list. Buff up any stat you want
Concealing Amorpha (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealingAmorpha.htm) - like Blur, will keep you from getting hit. Works great with Pearl of Black Doubt
Biofeedback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/biofeedback.htm) - less useful since there's better ways for you to get DR
Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm) - Psychic warrior list. Full attack after a charge? Yes please

Level 3
Touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) - ignore all sorts of enemy hiding powers
Greater Concealing Amorpha (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealingAmorphaGreater.htm) - Shaper list. See Concealing Amorpha above

Level 4
Psionic Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/freedomofMovementPsionic.htm) - better to get/make the ring, but if you can't this is great
Energy Adaptation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyAdaptation.htm) - better than the lesser version since it keeps casters from just switching energy types
Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) - Telepath list. Makes buffing while fighting easy

Edit: Metamorphosis from the Egoist list wasn't mentioned because it's even worse than the normal Polymorph, especially with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat.

Swooper
2008-01-12, 05:05 PM
Wow, thank you Chronicled. That list is awesome.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-12, 09:54 PM
I agree awesome list. In a high level game a Warblade / Erudite using the Spells to Power variant could be slightly stronger especially if Hidden Talent Astral Construct is chosen as an always known and available permanent power especially if enhanced by the PRC. It will allow cherry picking from all spell lists and things like 17 PP Miracles not so useful at lower levels.

One thing to consider is taking a level dip in Crusader at first level and Swordsage at level two or Factotum - 1 or 3 (Iajutsu Focus from Oriental Adventures) with a good intelligence and taking advantage of IPs and advancing Warblade from there since the level dip can provide the maneuver foundations for higher level manuever prerequisites.

Wordmiser
2008-01-12, 10:27 PM
It will allow cherry picking from all spell lists and things like 17 PP Miracles not so useful at lower levels.Which arcane casting class grants Miracle?

RTGoodman
2008-01-12, 10:52 PM
Which arcane casting class grants Miracle?

I think he probably meant Wish.

Alternatively, for a cheese-riddled solution, an wizard/cleric that used Alternative Source Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,all) to prepare Miracle as an arcane spell.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-12, 11:04 PM
Which arcane casting class grants Miracle?

You can do it with Arcane Disciple feat and the Luck Domain as an arcane caster. Shoot with Archmage and High Arcana you can have freebie experience point Miracles 2/day which provide a lot of utility in game.

I was referring to taking advantage of the Erudite class and the Wizard's Web article variant "Spells to Power" option (Lose that first level bonus feat for the ability), SPELLS so cherry picking from all spellcaster lists (Adept Heal as a level 5 spell), at L17+ No experience point Miracles for 17PP. Learning Greater Teleport as a level 7 spell to power. Fast Healing 1 for 1 PP. Shadow Conjuration as a level 2 power from a Shadow Lord. Lot of utility with the class at higher levels when your PC can use more than a few powers a day.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-12, 11:07 PM
I think he probably meant Wish.

Alternatively, for a cheese-riddled solution, an wizard/cleric that used Alternative Source Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,all) to prepare Miracle as an arcane spell.

No I meant Miracle because the standard Miracle has no experience point cost to the PC and it would only cost 17 PP to cast for an Erudite or Psion cherry picking spells through the Spells to Power variant at Wizards.

StickMan
2008-01-13, 12:18 AM
Psion//warblade the DND equivalent of a Jedi. You need to have a deep crystal sword in my opinion with some kind of energy enhancement, fire or force would be good. I would say take psionic powers that let you move things with your mind and make force walls and such nifty things. If you go Shaper Astral constructs make great flankers for the party.

Chronicled
2008-01-13, 12:32 AM
You need to have a deep crystal sword in my opinion

Incredibly true. Deep crystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm#crystalDeep) weapons are good for psychic warriors since they're a cheap source of extra damage, but psychic warriors have to use them sparingly or run out of PP. This isn't the case at all with a Warblade//Psion--and you can combine it with a maneuver. As an example, with a deep crystal greatsword and the maneuver Mountain Hammer, you can do 6d6+(1.5 Str) damage at level 3 (even more if you're power attacking).

Wordmiser
2008-01-13, 12:46 AM
I was referring to taking advantage of the Erudite class and the Wizard's Web article variant "Spells to Power" option (Lose that first level bonus feat for the ability), SPELLS so cherry picking from all spellcaster lists (Adept Heal as a level 5 spell), at L17+ No experience point Miracles for 17PP.




Your training has included basic magical theory as well as the usual psionic training.

Replaces: You lose your 1st-level bonus feat.

Benefit: You add Spellcraft to your class skill list, which allows you to attempt to convert an arcane spell into a power you can add to your repertoire. You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power (see page 154 of Complete Psionic).

Looking over Arcane Disciple, I suppose it does allow you to cast Miracle as an Arcane spell. Your DM has to want to destroy his own game to give you a scroll of that thing, but it's possible.

Or you could sweet-talk one of your buddies into building a ???//Wizard with that feat...

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-13, 01:21 AM
Looking over Arcane Disciple, I suppose it does allow you to cast Miracle as an Arcane spell. Your DM has to want to destroy his own game to give you a scroll of that thing, but it's possible.

Or you could sweet-talk one of your buddies into building a ???//Wizard with that feat...

I mostly agree except where a PC class receives free powers or spells for leveling Miracle is a core spell so it should be available in a high power game.

IMO a PC needs to do it with the Arcane Disciple feat for a regular arcane caster.

In the best games I have played in if the PCs are doing it then the NPCs and BBEGs are doing something similar or worse.

Much easier to just have the party Cleric - 11+ (Preferably a Cleric or Archivist - 7, Thaumaturgist - 4) or arcane caster with the Arcane Discipline Summoner domain cast Planar Ally to summon a Noble Djinni or Efreeti for 3 Wishes for 250 exp and 1,000 gp or less. (A Thaumaturgist PRC could possibly get up to 3 Free Wishes and at no experience point cost if he purchased a scroll of Planar Ally).

A dwarf sorcerer or wizard can do it better with the Runecaster PRC and Limited Wish 2/day using Permanent Rune at the cost of a level 8 spell without experience point cost which is pretty useful especially using Miracle from the Luck Domain and High Arcana spell-like ability.

Swooper
2008-01-13, 08:57 AM
Incredibly true. Deep crystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm#crystalDeep) weapons are good for psychic warriors since they're a cheap source of extra damage, but psychic warriors have to use them sparingly or run out of PP. This isn't the case at all with a Warblade//Psion--and you can combine it with a maneuver. As an example, with a deep crystal greatsword and the maneuver Mountain Hammer, you can do 6d6+(1.5 Str) damage at level 3 (even more if you're power attacking).

Make that 9d6+(1.5 Str) with Punishing Stance and Psionic Weapon, but yes. Deep Crystal is a good idea if I can get it. With this DM though, I've learned to not expect being able to aquire the items I would most like.

CASTLEMIKE, your ideas seem to take me really far from my original idea with this character... I'm not going to use the Spells-as-Powers variant - in fact, I doubt we'll use Psionic/magic transparency, depending on the DM. Personally I'd prefer we didn't. And I'm definitely not going to cheese my way into being able to cast Miracle or anything of the sort. Thanks anyway.

Right now I'm wondering if it will be worth it to spend my third level feat on Expanded Knowledge for Metaphysical Weapon, or if I should spend that feat on Expansion instead and wait until the cleric can cast Greater Magic Weapon (it's a 4th level spell for clerics, so that's not untill 7th level and then he likely has other things to cast...).

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-13, 09:43 AM
CASTLEMIKE, your ideas seem to take me really far from my original idea with this character... I'm not going to use the Spells-as-Powers variant - in fact, I doubt we'll use Psionic/magic transparency, depending on the DM. Personally I'd prefer we didn't. And I'm definitely not going to cheese my way into being able to cast Miracle or anything of the sort. Thanks anyway.



You are welcome, sorry I wasn't able to help. Hope you have fun.

Chronicled
2008-01-13, 12:39 PM
Right now I'm wondering if it will be worth it to spend my third level feat on Expanded Knowledge for Metaphysical Weapon, or if I should spend that feat on Expansion instead and wait until the cleric can cast Greater Magic Weapon (it's a 4th level spell for clerics, so that's not untill 7th level and then he likely has other things to cast...).

Get Expansion, and a reach weapon. The battlefield control and extra damage from size is better than being able to enchant your weapon yourself.