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Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 01:52 PM
Why on earth do Undead receive 4+Int skill points per HD? This makes them more skilled than fighters, wizards, sorcerors, humanoid HD, monstrous humanoids, and giants, among other things, despite the fact that most undead don't have functioning brains. WTF?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-12, 02:04 PM
Most have no int, while wizards generally have +4 at first level, so the actual skill points are more for the wiz. And fighters have too few skills anyways, that's been decided long ago.

FinalJustice
2008-01-12, 02:05 PM
Well, if they have no INT score, means 4 skill points per level. Maybe on par or slightly more skilled than the average fighter and sorc, but they don't overskill batman. Really Awful.

Edit:
Ninja'd

Balkash
2008-01-12, 02:06 PM
edit:
I just looked over LiMo, and I'd now guess about the same. The only other facts I've seemed to find to support a higher skill point amount is that undead could live for a very long time, allowing them more chances to master skills? Maybe without the need to eat or breathe or other things that sustain the living, that brain space could be used to learn more skills?

I'm not actually sure. My best idea would be that most undead have no intelligence or very little, so it might balance out? Seeing as wizards and such have a greater intelligence? I'd never think that undead would ever be truely skilled. In fact, I'd think them to be rather unskilled. This really doesn't make much sense.

Lochar
2008-01-12, 02:10 PM
Undead with an Int score of - get no feats or skill points, just like constructs.

Intelligent undead are just that, more intelligent. :P

Yuki Akuma
2008-01-12, 02:13 PM
Undead with an Int score of - get no feats or skill points, just like constructs.

And vermin. And anything else with the "mindless" trait.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 02:16 PM
Undead with an Int score of - get no feats or skill points, just like constructs.

Intelligent undead are just that, more intelligent. :P

Except they're really not any more intelligent than they were before they became a lich. If I'm a thri-kreen, for instance, who becomes a lich, I'm gaining skill points despite not actually getting any smarter. WTF?

Albonor
2008-01-12, 02:19 PM
You could argue that the very focused minds of undeads favors them when learning a few skills. After all, 4+int isn't that much if everything seems good to you to learn.

Yuki Akuma
2008-01-12, 02:21 PM
Except they're really not any more intelligent than they were before they became a lich. If I'm a thri-kreen, for instance, who becomes a lich, I'm gaining skill points despite not actually getting any smarter. WTF?

Um... no? Liches gain a +8 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. They don't gain more skill points.

Their class is still the same as before, they just get more hit points.

There aren't that many undead that actually gain those 4+Int skill points. Quite a few undead are templates (which means they don't gain any undead HD), or are mindless.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 02:24 PM
Um... no? Liches gain a +8 bonus to Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. They don't gain more skill points.

Their class is still the same as before, they just get more hit points.

There aren't that many undead that actually gain those 4+Int skill points. Quite a few undead are templates (which means they don't gain any undead HD), or are mindless.

As a thri-kreen, the lich template changes your HD from Monstrous Humanoid HD (2+Int) to Undead HD (4+Int). You DO gain skill points.

The_Snark
2008-01-12, 03:51 PM
Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

The template specifies that liches don't gain skill points.

It's a bit odd, but the skill point numbers for monster types have always been a little arbitrary. In most cases, you could rationalize it because the undead versions are almost certainly older than the non-undead version of the same monster.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 04:05 PM
The template specifies that liches don't gain skill points.

It's a bit odd, but the skill point numbers for monster types have always been a little arbitrary. In most cases, you could rationalize it because the undead versions are almost certainly older than the non-undead version of the same monster.

Well, hell. I've been doing that wrong all this time? Jesus.

Renegade Paladin
2008-01-12, 04:12 PM
Well, hell. I've been doing that wrong all this time? Jesus.
Almost all acquired templates have that line.