Will OoTS advance to 4th Edition?

[Sombrenote]

Will OoTS advance to 4th Edition?

Excuse me if this topic has been banned, or already brought up and listed elsewhere, but will OoTS experience the same game system switch as it did from version 3.0 to 3.5.

I have been reading the new 4th Edition “making of” books, and I think it holds a lot of promise. I might like to see the change.

[monty]

It has been discussed numerous times (try "Search" next time). To answer your question, probably not, because it will be incompatible with a lot of 3.5 classes, races, and so on.

[Kyeudo]

We believe it will largely be "no" because gnomes and bards are being dropped completely, elves, eladrin, and drow are becoming very distinct races, and that's probably just the begining.

Then again, Rich can be perverse. Who wants to see Elan as a Warlord?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Rich hasn't said yes or no yet, as far as I can tell. But he did say that he wished he had picked a different joke for the first strip, since a conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 was kind of obscure.

On the other hand, 4th Ed. does a lot of things, including eliminating half-orcs as a player race, and gives EVERYONE magic powers. Which eliminates Thog, and gives Roy the powers he turned his back on when he pursued a career as a straight fighter.

So I'm really not sure. I've been playing D&D since First Edition days, back when the arguments were between which was better: Basic D&D or Advanced D&D, then everyone freaked out when 2nd Edition came out.

Me? I look at things like this: 1st Ed was clunky, rough and you pretty much had to be taught by someone else how to play. But it had it's own quirky charm.

2nd Edition was brought out after Gary Gygax and the other founders were driven out, and while it fixed a few things, it also created a few other problems. I never really got into 2nd Ed, but I did like Spelljammer.

3rd Ed. brought D&D and its parent company TSR back from the brink of its own self-distruction. 3.5 fixed a few problems with 3.0, but ended up making the magic-users a little too powerful, especially at the higher levels. Grapple rules have NEVER worked, since First Edition, BTW.

What will 4th Ed bring? A new and awsome version of the game, or the Windows Vista of the RPG world? Only time will tell.

[David Argall]

It has been discussed before, and is unlikely to happen, for a minimum of a year or two for starters. The 4.0 jokes won't work until we are familiar enough with the new rules to recognize them. Even then, the odds seem poor. The rules seem to be too widely different.

[Ulrichomega]

Rich has also stated that he didn't like starting off the comic with a reference to an edition change, so I think the number one answer here is:

No.

[Alex Warlorn]

Why does 90% of everything I hear about 4E make me dislike it more?

And seriously.....say I'm old fashioned, say I live in the past, say I cling to arcanic ways, but seriously, I think 4E would cause way too much damage to the OotS verse.

[monty]

I don't see what the issue here is. WotC has said (I haven't actually seen it myself, but it has been repeatedly stated as Word of God by other posters and what I've heard about it makes me think so anyway) that conversion will be difficult or in some cases impossible, so it's not likely to happen in a situation where, apparently, several of the classes and races will simply cease to exist.

[Ichneumon]

What will 4th Ed bring? A new and awsome version of the game, or the Windows Vista of the RPG world? Only time will tell.

Oh I can so see that happen:

Designer #1: We need to start working on a new version.
Designer #2: But there is nothing we can clearly fix!
Designer #3: I know, let's just do everything different!
Designer #4: Great idea!

My main problem with 4th edition is this: If it isn't broken, do not fix it!:smallmad:

[Superglucose]

What will 4th Ed bring? A new and awsome version of the game, or the Windows Vista of the RPG world? Only time will tell.

The problem with this analogy is that it assumes that 3.5 is XP with two service packs, when 3.5 is most certainly XP with just the first service pack. Maybe that's just me being nit picky, I don't know. What I do know is that I'm currently playing a 500 page overhall of D&D 3.5 rules variant made because spellcasters were too powerful and fighters could survive atmospheric re-entry, not to mention the fact that an anvil would crack before the fighter's skull.

4.0 is supposed to solve those issues from what I've heard. I'm going to miss a lot, but I am interested in checking it out when it arrives.

Back to the origional topic...

I don't think there will be an update. Between 3.0 and 3.5 there would have been an update, but just because all the change was was an 'update'. 4.0 is an entirely different gorilla. Too much would have to change. There might be a few references to it, but barring that? Nah.

[Ichneumon]

Fighters could survive atmospheric re-entry, not to mention the fact that an anvil would crack before the fighter's skull.

Wait, would it?

[mp122984]

And seriously.....say I'm old fashioned, say I live in the past, say I cling to arcanic ways, but seriously, I think 4E would cause way too much damage to the OotS verse.

In all honesty, I find this fact fascinating in large part because it could be a much bigger plot hook for team evil than it would be for the good guys.

(Note: What's in the Spoiler tags is of course rampant speculation based on a few tidbits about 4th Edition, but what is a forum for if not rampant speculation?)

From Wizards Presents Races and Classes, Pg. 14:
"Player characters are not identical to the rules and powers used by the world's monsters and nonplayer characters....So we've made 4th Edition simpler to run and play by simplifying monsters and NPCs.

Redcloak's plan is to force an equality between goblins and other races. 4th edition could very well put that plan to a permanent end, forever trapping goblinoids in the role of "evil creature who gets killed for it" (which, ironically, seems to be the point of 4th Edition: making PCs the ones who matter). In the OoTS-verse this may even be a plan of the Gods themselves, possibly a response to the Dark One's plan to force equality among the races. At best, they want to protect the more obviously sentient races (i.e. the player races) and give them better tools to protect themselves from the monsters that would seek to kill them. At worst, they're finishing the job they started as related in Start of Darkness by permanently branding the NPC races as "targets" and stripping them of any opportunity to get "uppity", all in order to make sure that their clerics stay safe and leveling.

(As a digression, I am suddenly reminded of Comic 492 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0492.html). Imagine a world where monsters only exist to be put in Dungeons and be Just Strong Enough To Really Challenge You. That could be 4th Edition.)

No more Goblin villages. Certainly no more Goblin civilizations or massive, but still organized Goblin armies (actual armies, as opposed to slavering hordes). And any attempts to create such (assuming that doblins are actually left able to do so) would be permanently crippled by their "simplifying" disadvantages. The Dark One could find himself without any clerics to manifest his will, making the Plan next to impossible and helping to ensure that 4th Edition isn't undone.

True, I don't know much about 4th Edition. And yes, this may very well be paranoia that will prove to be completely unfounded when 4th Edition actually rolls out. But I would imagine that Redcloak and his kind would have no intention of taking that risk.

All this, of course, says nothing of what could happen to Team Evil itself. Can a goblin have class levels? Can a lich? And there probably won't be a Mystic Theurge as we know it. How would they react if they found out?


Of course, there are many good reasons why Rich would think that his comic doesn't need or can't use 4th Edition. But personally, even the threat of it could be interesting.

[Superglucose]

Wait, would it?

Given an adamentine weapon an anvil can take far fewer hits than a fighter.

[Ichneumon]

Given an adamentine weapon an anvil can take far fewer hits than a fighter.

But a falling anvil will gain force while it is falling (law of acceleration, Newston's second law).

[Arkenputtyknife]

But a falling anvil will gain force while it is falling (law of acceleration, Newston's second law).
Oh… mah… gawd… You did not just write that twaddle. If you're going to talk physics, get the terminology right, and understand what the equations mean. (And the name's Newton, by the way.)

An object gains downward velocity, momentum, and kinetic energy while falling. It does not gain "force" because force is not something that a mass can accumulate, but something that is applied to a mass to make it accelerate, in this case by gravity. Unless the mass falls so far that the gravitational field itself changes in intensity, that force will be constant all the way down.

When the falling mass hits ground, all that momentum and kinetic energy has to go somewhere. That's what makes falling things, or things under falling things, break.

Of course, we could switch into the realm of general relativity, in which gravity isn't a force and the falling object is considered to be at rest at all times, but that would probably blow too many minds.

[Sombrenote]

I am have a BS physics to, Arkenputtyknife right. Lets get off the topic.


As i read about D&D in the "Making of" book. Even though there are a lot of changes to the races and what not, what they are trying to do to the game is still so much better then the no balance crapshoot that is 3.5 I am very interested to see if it pays out.


I feel that one of the reasons OoTS is so funny and taken to heart is that the characters are playing the game as we play it. I feel that if 4.0 really catches on, he would have to change so we can enjoy the quarky nature of them as mirrored in the comic.

P.S. I did do a search, but "4th" is not search able word, and "edition" brought up nothing after 5 pages of scanning. If the topic has really been so agonized over, someone could have stickied a link.

[dakiwiboid]

P.S. I did do a search, but "4th" is not search able word, and "edition" brought up nothing after 5 pages of scanning. If the topic has really been so agonized over, someone could have stickied a link.

Search again on "Fourth edition" in this particular forum. Most of the threads have been locked by administrators.

[Sengoku]

I really hope the Giant does not make the switch, first and foremost because I don't like where 4e is going, but also because many characters and situations could not be converted (and the comics works fine as is!).

[the_tick_rules]

until it does get locked i'll mention it probably will eventually, but it will take a few years of gameplay for 4th ed to be become widespread and played before jokes can be made about it. It's not funny if people don't get it.

[Kai Maera]

I don't think we've actually seen any gnomes in OotS so far (at least on the base webcomic), so that's no problem. The differences in race origins mean nothing, since this is its own setting. Races and Classes said that bards would be implemented, just not in the first book, so Elan will still be cool.

Now, no one gets magic powers. You heard me. It states plainly that classes get tactical moves (which, admittedly, translates into magic powers for the magic users) and different races get racial benefits (like thog getting extra toughness) which shouldn't mess with them much at all.

Now, despite all of that, I don't think OotS will make the switch because that would lessen the characters; first, we'd be able to point out their levels easily. Second, they would have to show a more race-bound side than they have. Finally, V can't possibly be a master of the arcane if (s)he only flings generic spells, instead of bringing down the universal laws of science and physics in spoken words.

[The Extinguisher]

Leeky. The gnome armourer guy. The gnome wizard guy.

[shadowdemon_lord]

I bet (after 4th ed starts to catch on) we'll get cameo's by 4th ed characters (using 4th ed mechanics) Maybe a maybe a 4th ed version of one of the core 3.x races will show up. I bet The Giant could come up with some pretty funny one shots (or maybe entire story arcs) revolving around the differences. It's also possible that The Giant will have some NPC's be 4th edition characters in a 3.5 ed world.

[The Extinguisher]

I'd like to see a comic where they try to switch, but realize nothing would work out.

[Morty]

Apart from what was already said, I doubt V would like being relegated to the role of fireball-tosser instead of keeper of arcane lore. And that's what 4ed seems to be doing to wizards. There's also already mentioned royal screwing of Redcloak's plans in order to "simplify" things.

[wojonatior]

WE NEED A MOD OVER HERE THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED!(you know because this thread has already been made like 4 times)

[Purple Cloak]

WE NEED A MOD OVER HERE THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED!(you know because this thread has already been made like 4 times)

Perhaps, but its prefered that we make new threads rather than reviving old threads with some form of necromancy (threadomancy? necrothreading? :smallconfused: )

but as for what im thinking I doubt it would be converted to 4th ed, as it would ceise to be the OotS we all know and love, but im going to agree that a strip, or a few strips, where conversion is attempted and abandond in the end could be amusing, if unlikly because its as good as saying "4th ed is rubbish, don't even bother trying it" unless it is done very carfuly :smallbiggrin:

[JasonDoomsblade]

(you know because this thread has already been made like 4 times)

Has it now? :smallconfused:

[monty]

Has it now? :smallconfused:

Somewhere around that, possibly more. However, as has been said, new threads are preferred to necromancy.

[The Extinguisher]

However, it's not thread necromancy if it's from the second or third page.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I think keeping with 3.5 is a great idea. They could save 4th edition for some world cataclysm.

[baerdith]

What will 4th Ed bring? A new and awsome version of the game, or the Windows Vista of the RPG world? Only time will tell.

I say it will be Vista. One of the reasons I will ignore it. (I hate Vista, too)

There will be too many things theat will be different. As with Forgotten Realms Rich might as well just start a new comic with new characters.

So I say that Rich will stick to 3.5 and the beloved characters. And when WOTC wake up and shelve 4 the question will be moot.

[factotum]

So I say that Rich will stick to 3.5 and the beloved characters. And when WOTC wake up and shelve 4 the question will be moot.

Shelve 4? I think there's about as much chance of that as the entire staff of WOTC finding out they have superpowers and all flying to the moon for a picnic. Even if WOTC decided that 4th edition was a mistake, what they'd do is produce a 5th edition which worked more like old-fashioned D&D, rather than revert to 3.5.

[Spiky]

but as for what im thinking I doubt it would be converted to 4th ed, as it would ceise to be the OotS we all know and love, but im going to agree that a strip, or a few strips, where conversion is attempted and abandond in the end could be amusing, if unlikly because its as good as saying "4th ed is rubbish, don't even bother trying it" unless it is done very carfuly :smallbiggrin:

I don't think this fits the verse, either. In #1, the characters had no interaction with the change to 3.5. Presumably they would not in 4, either.