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blue_fenix
2008-01-13, 04:05 AM
In a 3.5 game I am DMing soon, one player wants to play a non-magical bard. In exchange for giving up spellcasting (but keeping bardic music) he would like more skill points and some other benefits. I know losing spell casting is a major reduction in power for a bard, so what seems fair to you?

Options:
-Change 6+int skills to 8+int skills
-Bonus Feat every X levels (can choose any feat directly related to skills, what should X be?)
-Every skill is a class skill.
-Can always take "X" on any skill check regardless of circumstances, where "X" is equal to 1/2 bard level + 1 (minimum 2)

What combination of the above would you recommend?

tyckspoon
2008-01-13, 04:35 AM
Spells are powerful enough that 'all of the above' would still not quite make up for trading in all of them, in my opinion. Of that list, the last one is the most likely to risk breaking something in the game- if you give him that one, make sure you're not using Diplomacy strictly as written. It's easy enough for a Bard to wreck a world with RAW Diplomacy without giving him Skill Mastery as a class feature to make it even more reliable.

A lot of the skill-based feats.. just kinda suck. Do you have Complete Scoundrel? Allowing the bard to pick up one of the skill tricks introduced there at each of the bonus feat points would be ok. As for when to give those bonus feats, I would do it at each level where the Bard would normally gain access to a new level of spells.

Rad
2008-01-13, 06:50 AM
There are several Bard PrCs that drop spellcasting. I'd just take one of those and keep the couple of low level spells that he's getting; they'll be useless enough to pretend that they do not exist soon enough.

IIRC the bard class features are keyed on perform ranks rather than level; so you can get just one level in bard and then rogue, factotum or other skill-monkey class until you enter a PrC.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-13, 07:12 AM
There is the UA/SRD Expert consider and giving him the option of taking Bardic Music (Not normally an option) or the Artistic feat with one of those bonus feats and let it affect his PR like he has Bardic Music - 0/day without the feat (+3 to Bardic Music and a few other bonuses to craft and perform).

Consider letting him play a Feat Rogue trading in Sneak Attack for Bonus feats and let him trade in Trap sense for Bardic Music.