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View Full Version : Great character idea. Can you make it greater?



Valgoth
2008-01-14, 03:53 PM
About to start a new campaign... the second since I started my DM sabbatical (long story). I'm the rare kind of player that would rather have a really interesting character that has a great place in the story rather than a super-powered one that can kill everything. I guess I'm the opposite of a munchkin.

Aaaannnnyyyyway, it took me a while to come up with a character concept that I like as much as the one in my other game (Valgoth, the dwarven transmutor/shaper of form), but I have. I'm going to tell you a little about the character, what I'd like to do with it, what I'm already planning on taking, and if you can think of something that would fit well, I'd love to hear about it. Or you can ignore me... whatever.

Tu-same Djëda, NE Asherati (http://kmansadventures.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=godschar&action=display&thread=1119276718) Ninja

Race from Sandstorm, class from Complete Adventurer.

The Asherati are desert people... they live under the sand. Look like somewhat thin humans with rust colored skin and no hair. Can make their body glow like a torch... I instantly dug the race upon reading it.

I'm planning on going into assassin... he's going to be the penultimate "out of the shadows, instant death" sort of killer. Stealthy to the max.

As far as alignment goes... he's just a drop onto the evil side. I like to think of him as kind of a gangster / major proponent of the death penalty... so he still works well with the party and authority... no stabbing people in their sleep.

He fights with an eagle's claw (weapon from sandstorm)... basically a dagger with two talon-like blades on either end. It's a racial weapon. I'll get it keened at the earliest possible time, making it 1d6/15-20 X2 (crit city, another cool mesh with the "strike once, strike hard" mantra) Wear's desert clothes under a large black cloak, complete with glasses (desert "sun goggles"), head wrap and mask.

Feats... improved initiative, and adding another sandstorm feat specific for his weapon with a flaw. That flaw is a homebrew fear of water. He's considered shaken on a boat or within any proximity to deep water. If he becomes submerged waist-deep in water, I think he passes out. Asherati are very dry people. Thinking of taking another flaw and get the feat that allows me to coup de grace as a standard action... or something else. Seems to work for an assassin type character.

Any suggestions and "this'd be cool"'s would be helpful... from equipment to feats to classes... anything. I really just wanted to write about my character.

Oh, and it's an Eberron game, and he's from Xen'Drik, the only place other than the Demon Wastes I could think of that has deserts. That can be changed to, if you can find a desert elsewhere in Eberron.

The end!

Felius
2008-01-14, 04:19 PM
I can't but a wizard can. He just needs to cast Enlarge Person (or Idea). :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, do you have access to ToB?

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 04:28 PM
I can't but a wizard can. He just needs to cast Enlarge Person (or Idea). :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, do you have access to ToB?

Tome of Battle? Indeed I do. Haven't read it though.

Person_Man
2008-01-14, 04:44 PM
Ninja is a nerfed class.

The Assassin's Death Attack is a nerfed mechanic, because it uses a Fort Save (which is very high for most enemies) and its Save DC doesn't progress once you leave the Assassin class, making it even less useful in ECL 16+ games.

Improved Initiative is a weak feat, as are most other feats that provides a static bonus.

High crit weapons don't synergize well with Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike, because bonus dice of damage aren't multiplied on a crit. And enemies that are immune to Precision Damage are immune to crits, making you doubly screwed when you fight undead, constructs, etc.

The fluffy backstory sounds great.

So, are you willing to consider other build options, as long as it stays within your fluff. Or are you you wedded to some sort of Ninja/Assassin build using that particular weapon?

Also, what books do you have access to?

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 05:01 PM
Ninja is a nerfed class
The Assassin's Death Attack is a nerfed mechanic, because it uses a Fort Save (which is very high for most enemies) and its Save DC doesn't progress once you leave the Assassin class, making it even less useful in ECL 16+ games.
Improved Initiative is a weak feat, as are most other feats that provides a static bonus.
High crit weapons don't synergize well with Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike, because bonus dice of damage aren't multiplied on a crit.
The fluffy backstory sounds great.
So, are you willing to consider other build options, as long as it stays within your fluff. Or are you you wedded to some sort of Ninja/Assassin build using that particular weapon?
Also, what books do you have access to?

I'm open to all suggestions. And I can get my hands on pretty much any official book, and with some digging and asking around, some of the more popular D20 stuff.

What've you got?

Cormac
2008-01-14, 05:11 PM
I like the ninja assassin mix.

I never liked the whole "flaws" thing. I think it is overpowered, and often leads to bad roleplaying. I think most of the flaws are things that could be roleplayed, I do think that giving people in game bonuses for good roleplaying (especially if it causes negative in game effects), but an extra feat seems a little much. Anyway, i am not here to rant about flaws, but to tell you that i like your character.

Ninja is a pretty week class, but i do like the ehtereal ability (which you don't get until 10th level). if you stack that with ghost touch weapons it can be a lot of fun, and especially good for death attacks (maybe you can get your DM to nerf the assassin, maybe losing his spells and trading out sneak attack for sudden attack to let your ghost step abilities continue as if you were a ninja). I think that if you have a high int and take improved death attack death attack is pretty good, especially if you are scouting far enough ahead of your party that you can come out of the shadows to death attack the thing that seems to have the lowest fort save, that is pretty awesome.

I highly recommend investing in a back story, and, if your DM has the time, doing a little bit of pre-adventuring with just the two of you, so you can play your character in a situation where you can say "what i just did doesnt seem like my character."

good for you for going for characters that are fun to roleplay, overpowering gets sooooooooo boring after a while.

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 05:16 PM
I like the ninja assassin mix.

I never liked the whole . . . just the two of you, so you can play your character in a situation where you can say "what i just did doesnt seem like my character."

good for you for going for characters that are fun to roleplay, overpowering gets sooooooooo boring after a while.

Having never played a ninja, I can't say for sure, but it seems pretty good to me. I mean, second level... invisible for a round as a swift action. To mean, that seems like sneak attack city. Plus, they get the wisdom armor bonus of a monk, and sudden strike progression starts a level earlier than rogue. Add in assassin, and I get uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.

And I have a much more detailed back story than that. I just didn't feel like typing it out, and I figured no one would want to read it.

Cormac
2008-01-14, 05:23 PM
i dont know what you mean about ninjas being a level ahead in sudden strike, so me it looks the same (though you will get a level ahead if you prestige into assassin).

Also, having played a ninja, relying on sudden strike is a pretty serious draw back, and being able to turn invisible is pretty cool, but it is pretty limited how many times you can do it in a day and you need to use it just about any time that you need to sneak attack (getting a ring of improved invis 3/day or the like, is key, you can calculate the cost from the DMG).

I would recommend improved initiative, contrary to previous recommendations, as going before everyone else is a key way to get your sudden strike. and i think it is a powerful feat the whole way through, especially if you are a dex class (it seems like dex and initiative is one of the things that doesnt scale *as much* as other things--BA, hitpoints and grapple i am looking right at you).

and i would read your character history. having a life is overrated. I wish more people gave their character histories on this site. good character histories are more interesting that most of what gets up on these boards anyway.

Swooper
2008-01-14, 05:25 PM
I'd recommend the feat Telling Blow from PHB2. It gives you your sneak attack dice whenever you score a critical hit. Works well with a weapon with large threat range, like the one you plan on using. Other than that, I don't know much about playing rogue-ish types.

Metal Head
2008-01-14, 05:44 PM
Once you're done taking levels in assassin, go shadowdancer. It will go very well with the concept that you have going. After all, you said you wanted a "out of the shadows, instant death, sort of killer." Well why not have it literally be "out of the shadows"? You'll have a guy who is an uber cool assassin with badass curved weapons, a mysterious outfit, and can jump from shadow to shadow. Never mind the fact that shadow dancers can make illusions out of shadows and make shadows (the undead kind) do their bidding. Just the shadow jumping part is incredibly badass. Add the other stuff a shadowdancer can do, and you have one awesome character.

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 05:53 PM
i dont know what you mean about ninjas being a level ahead in sudden strike, so me it looks the same (though you will get a level ahead if you prestige into assassin).

Also, having played a ninja, relying on sudden strike is a pretty serious draw back, and being able to turn invisible is pretty cool, but it is pretty limited how many times you can do it in a day and you need to use it just about any time that you need to sneak attack (getting a ring of improved invis 3/day or the like, is key, you can calculate the cost from the DMG).

I would recommend improved initiative, contrary to previous recommendations, as going before everyone else is a key way to get your sudden strike. and i think it is a powerful feat the whole way through, especially if you are a dex class (it seems like dex and initiative is one of the things that doesnt scale *as much* as other things--BA, hitpoints and grapple i am looking right at you).

and i would read your character history. having a life is overrated. I wish more people gave their character histories on this site. good character histories are more interesting that most of what gets up on these boards anyway.

I was under the mistaken impression that rogue didn't get their first sneak attack until level 2. Just checked it out... whoops.

Yeah, i finally settled on improved initiative because I can get a sudden strike off by winning initiative. I have a decent wisdom, so I get a pretty decent ki pool... and I'll be doing a bit of tumbling, so I'm pretty sure I can get sudden strike often enough to pay off.

If I do a formal write-up on the guy, I'll post it here later. Just 'cause.

What I really like is the racial stuff. Just a cool race, overall... and here I heard Sandstorm and the other "terrain based" books were terrible.

daggaz
2008-01-14, 05:58 PM
Gonna have to disagree with Person Man on the Improved Init comment.

While it is true that static bonus feats are generally very weak, improved init is different because initiative doesn't scale with level, unlike the saving throws the other nonscaling feats are based on.

A high dex wizard with improved init can easily be +8, and that puts him right in the same place compared to all the monsters in the MM at lvl 20 as it did at lvl 1. And going first can be golden for a wizard, as we all know.

Ok sure, a lot of the higher lvl monsters have some pretty impressive init bonuses, but not all of them, and most humanoid types remain unimpressive regardless of their level.

Just my two cents, ive gotten a lot of mileage out of that feat, especially in a core campaign where there just isnt too much competition.

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 07:07 PM
Once you're done taking levels in assassin, go shadowdancer. It will go very well with the concept that you have going. After all, you said you wanted a "out of the shadows, instant death, sort of killer." Well why not have it literally be "out of the shadows"? You'll have a guy who is an uber cool assassin with badass curved weapons, a mysterious outfit, and can jump from shadow to shadow. Never mind the fact that shadow dancers can make illusions out of shadows and make shadows (the undead kind) do their bidding. Just the shadow jumping part is incredibly badass. Add the other stuff a shadowdancer can do, and you have one awesome character.

If it weren't for the 10 skill-points needed for (perform) dance, I'd be all over it.

Metal Head
2008-01-14, 07:22 PM
If it weren't for the 10 skill-points needed for (perform) dance, I'd be all over it.

Only 5 skill-points, and is that such a high price for looking incredibly badass? And being effective while you do it?

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 07:35 PM
Only 5 skill-points, and is that such a high price for looking incredibly badass? And being effective while you do it?

Profession is a cross-class skill for ninjas. Unless it's a class skill for assassins...

Magnor Criol
2008-01-14, 07:53 PM
Profession is a cross-class skill for ninjas. Unless it's a class skill for assassins...

Perform =!= Profession, mind. I think it's still a true statement, though; I don't have access at the moment to the ninja's class description, but I can't imagine it'd be in their class skill repertoire.

Still, Metal Head's got a point. The stealth abilities of a shadowdancer would mesh excellently both fluffwise and crunchwise with your character. It'll only take 10 skill points total to get to it, which shouldn't be too hard to swallow if you spread it out; you can't enter it before level 7 (with Perform as a cross-class skill) anyhow, and you'll probably want to pick up levels of other classes first, so you should be fine. Just drop one or two skill points into it every so often as you go along and you'll have it without even sweating.

Metal Head
2008-01-14, 07:55 PM
Profession is a cross-class skill for ninjas. Unless it's a class skill for assassins...

Oops. For some reason I thought you were doing a rogue/assassin. So I'll edit my question. Are 10 skill points a high price for looking incredibly badass?

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 09:07 PM
Perform =!= Profession, mind. I think it's still a true statement, though; I don't have access at the moment to the ninja's class description, but I can't imagine it'd be in their class skill repertoire.

Still, Metal Head's got a point. The stealth abilities of a shadowdancer would mesh excellently both fluffwise and crunchwise with your character. It'll only take 10 skill points total to get to it, which shouldn't be too hard to swallow if you spread it out; you can't enter it before level 7 (with Perform as a cross-class skill) anyhow, and you'll probably want to pick up levels of other classes first, so you should be fine. Just drop one or two skill points into it every so often as you go along and you'll have it without even sweating.

Yeah... I was looking at the feats it requires anyway... I'll definitely look at them closer now.

Chronos
2008-01-14, 09:21 PM
I'm planning on going into assassin... he's going to be the penultimate "out of the shadows, instant death" sort of killer. Stealthy to the max.So if this guy is penultimate, what's the ultimate sneaky killer?

As for Shadowdancer, the shadow-jumping ability is indeed cool, but the class won't do anything for your stealth abilities. Hide in Plain Sight is great, and worth a one-level dip for a rogue, but you'll already be getting it from Assassin, and it's hard to justify taking a prestige class which effectively starts with a dead level. If you play far enough to finish Assassin, I would probably recommend just going back to Ninja or Rogue (though I don't know exactly what higher levels of Ninja gets you).

Valgoth
2008-01-14, 09:29 PM
So if this guy is penultimate, what's the ultimate sneaky killer?

As for Shadowdancer, the shadow-jumping ability is indeed cool, but the class won't do anything for your stealth abilities. Hide in Plain Sight is great, and worth a one-level dip for a rogue, but you'll already be getting it from Assassin, and it's hard to justify taking a prestige class which effectively starts with a dead level. If you play far enough to finish Assassin, I would probably recommend just going back to Ninja or Rogue (though I don't know exactly what higher levels of Ninja gets you).

More ki powers (ghost strike, ghost step, e.t.c.), increased AC, more evasion stuff. Things like that.

Felius
2008-01-14, 09:33 PM
You could of course do a Swordsage pick the right manouvers and stances and call yourself a Ninja. Just take care to not overdo and get a Naruto Ninja.

Thrawn183
2008-01-14, 09:34 PM
Don't forget the Darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness. Being able to sneak around things even if they have scent, blindsense or blindsight is nice. Still being able to sudden strike things with blindsight is crucial.

I'm currently playing a ninja in a campaign. The invisibility schtick can be amazing, sadly it doesn't last very long, at least at lower levels. You're looking at a single round of invisibility per encounter and if you're going to be facing more than that in a day you're going to start running into some real problems.

I ended up taking a level in swordsage, focusing on tiger claw and shadow hand, but a second so that I could have gotten wisdom to AC while in light armor would have been really nice.