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View Full Version : Help! I lost my holy symbol!



Shishnarfne
2008-01-14, 03:57 PM
So, while in the midst of a treacherous and nasty dungeon, my level 10 cleric of Mystra (domains Magic and Knowledge) has been ...er... separated from his gear, including a Holy Symbol.

After reading through some relevant sections of my PhB, I have come to the following conclusions: I *can* still cast some spells... provided that they require no divine focus, material component, or regular focus. Luckily, my cure spells are safe, unfortunately, I am missing that scroll of Raise Dead that I had on my person.

As I have primarily access to the PhB for spells, I would like people to cross-check my assumption that I can still cast some spells (including Cure spells), as well as get people's thoughts on if it would be possible to fashion something into a workable Holy symbol (of course, I need to run that idea past my DM).

Spells that I've located that I might consider preparing:

Slay Living
Searing Light
Dispel Magic
Lesser Restoration
Remove Blindness/Deafness (actually, a lot of my "Remove X" spells are still viable)

Spells that I'll miss:

Buff spells (yes, nearly all of them require a Divine Focus)
Information gathering spells (e.g. Locate Object to find where my Holy Symbol is now...)
Flame Strike (out of armor, I will not be Clericzilla)

So, what advice do you have for a cleric forcibly separated from his gear?

Yes, this was in the Tomb of Horrors. Yes, I am glad that I am still alive. The rogue and a monk got the same treatment, but I think I'm the worst off of the three. It could be worse, I could be a wizard.

Craig1f
2008-01-14, 04:02 PM
There is a spell that I believe is in Complete Champion that you can use to summon a plain, wooden holy symbol, which can then be used to cast spells that require a holy symbol focus.

I believe it is in Complete Champion, and I think it's called something like Summon Holy Symbol. If it's not in CC, then it's probably Spell Compendium. I don't recall the duration, spell level, or anything else about the spell.

So, if you have time to rest, memorize the spell a few times.

Shishnarfne
2008-01-14, 04:07 PM
There is a spell that I believe is in Complete Champion that you can use to summon a plain, wooden holy symbol, which can then be used to cast spells that require a holy symbol focus.

I believe it is in Complete Champion, and I think it's called something like Summon Holy Symbol. If it's not in CC, then it's probably Spell Compendium. I don't recall the duration, spell level, or anything else about the spell.

So, if you have time to rest, memorize the spell a few times.

I hope that I can find a copy of this spell to appease my DM before the next session, too! But this would solve (biggest) problem admirably! Thanks!

Theli
2008-01-14, 04:19 PM
Assuming that your DM will allow you to use a spell just because it's written in a published book somewhere.

*considers getting a book about godly might published for his latest dnd character*

ANYWAY, check this out:
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellSearch.html

This doesn't let you search for things that don't have both divine focus' and material components, however if you cut out the DF ones it'll probably be relatively easy to weed out the Ms and Fs.

Solo
2008-01-14, 04:31 PM
Can't you make a new one?

Shishnarfne
2008-01-14, 04:34 PM
Can't you make a new one?

No one in the party put ranks in Craft....

So I'd need DM permission to make a new one... though that is an option I considered...

Solo
2008-01-14, 04:59 PM
The craft check for a simple wooden holy symbol can't be too high, can it?

InfiniteMiller
2008-01-14, 05:05 PM
I always thought it would be pretty badass to use a sharp object to carve an image of one's holy symbol into one's palm. It's the plan I'll use with my paladin if I ever get captured and/or separated from my holy symbol, as I use a few Divine feats from CW.

AKA_Bait
2008-01-14, 05:06 PM
There is a spell that I believe is in Complete Champion that you can use to summon a plain, wooden holy symbol, which can then be used to cast spells that require a holy symbol focus.

I believe it is in Complete Champion, and I think it's called something like Summon Holy Symbol. If it's not in CC, then it's probably Spell Compendium. I don't recall the duration, spell level, or anything else about the spell.

So, if you have time to rest, memorize the spell a few times.

Yes indeed. It's called 'Summon Holy Symbol, is on Page 128 and summons a cheap wooden holy symbol for all the normal holy symbol uses. It's cleric 0/ Pal 1 and a cleric should ALWAYS have one prepared.

Craig1f
2008-01-14, 05:13 PM
Yes indeed. It's called 'Summon Holy Symbol, is on Page 128 and summons a cheap wooden holy symbol for all the normal holy symbol uses. It's cleric 0/ Pal 1 and a cleric should ALWAYS have one prepared.

What's the duration again?

Man, I thought it was like level 2 or something. Yeah, for a level 0th spell, you should always have one prepared. I knew the spell was there, but my last character never memorized it. You'd think I would have, considering half the party had gotten captured before the end of it.

Luckily, that character was never captured. He was the only character to be killed in the final fight though. The BBEG used a Sphere of Annihilation on him :-(

AKA_Bait
2008-01-14, 05:14 PM
What's the duration?

Man, I thought it was like level 2 or something. Yeah, for a level 0th spell, you should always have one prepared.

1/round per level. You should actually prepare several of these, one per encounter at least.

Craig1f
2008-01-14, 05:17 PM
1/round per level. You should actually prepare several of these, one per encounter at least.

I wouldn't fill up all your 0th level spells on it normally though. Maybe two.

The first casting would be to use to cast Locate Object to find your original holy symbol. The second casting is in the case of an emergency.

daggaz
2008-01-14, 06:20 PM
Of course, you are in trouble if your clergy uses silver rather than wooden holy symbols. Frankly, Im a bit surprised there isnt more information on how to create a holy symbol, the issue seems pretty core to me.

UglyPanda
2008-01-14, 06:55 PM
If you still have problems with holy symbols after you get to a town and buy a new one, I suggest doing as Vow of Poverty characters do and get a tattoo of your holy symbol. (Note: I am not suggesting that you take the Vow of Poverty feat) You might need to get DM approval though.

tyckspoon
2008-01-14, 07:13 PM
If you still have problems with holy symbols after you get to a town and buy a new one, I suggest doing as Vow of Poverty characters do and get a tattoo of your holy symbol. (Note: I am not suggesting that you take the Vow of Poverty feat) You might need to get DM approval though.

Or just buy like four of 'em and hide them around your gear. Stick one down your boot like a dagger. Hang one off your built. Keep one in your backpack. Stitch a couple onto various points on your armor.. Get enough of them and hide them well enough that the only way you will be completely without one is if somebody strip-searches you. At which point you cast Summon Holy Symbol.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-01-14, 07:22 PM
Injuring your hand or getting a tattoo does not exactly constitute a Holy Symbol.

Come prepared with a few symbols (like tyckspoon suggests) and prepare and instance of the spell and you should be good.

Worira
2008-01-14, 07:26 PM
The craft check for a simple wooden holy symbol can't be too high, can it?

Mystra's holy symbol is a "Circle of seven stars with red mist flowing from the center".

UglyPanda
2008-01-14, 07:27 PM
It kinda depends on what you define the holy power to come from. If the shape is what matters, then you can always make your own. If holy symbols in your world are personally crafted by priests who bless the symbols several times before the sale, then you're perfectly correct in not allowing the player to do such a thing. I prefer the former as holy water is stated to be sold without profit by churches, but holy symbols aren't.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-01-14, 07:33 PM
It kinda depends on what you define the holy power to come from. If the shape is what matters, then you can always make your own. If holy symbols in your world are personally crafted by priests who bless the symbols several times before the sale, then you're perfectly correct in not allowing the player to do such a thing. I prefer the former as holy water is stated to be sold without profit by churches, but holy symbols aren't.

I was talking RAW, where Holy Symbols are well defined and the definition does not include scars or ink.

Holy water is actually sold at a loss in spite of what the PHB says, since they have to provide a container also.:smalltongue:

daggaz
2008-01-14, 07:35 PM
If you still have problems with holy symbols after you get to a town and buy a new one, I suggest doing as Vow of Poverty characters do and get a tattoo of your holy symbol. (Note: I am not suggesting that you take the Vow of Poverty feat) You might need to get DM approval though.

In most cases where PC's are robbed of their most valuable possessions, "getting back to town" is usually somewhere down the list under "how the hell do we stay alive?" and "I sure would like to get my valuable posessions back, rather than starting over from scratch, especially considering that my major class ability is temporarily useless."

Even if their lives aren't under immediate threat, maybe they are lost in the wilderness, or the mountains, or a vast desert. Deep in a dungeon or.. shudder... the Underdark would be even worse. What if they aren't even on the prime material plane?

UglyPanda
2008-01-14, 07:39 PM
In most cases where PC's are robbed of their most valuable possessions, "getting back to town" is usually somewhere down the list under "how the hell do we stay alive?" and "I sure would like to get my valuable posessions back, rather than starting over from scratch, especially considering that my major class ability is temporarily useless."

Even if their lives aren't under immediate threat, maybe they are lost in the wilderness, or the mountains, or a vast desert. Deep in a dungeon or.. shudder... the Underdark would be even worse. What if they aren't even on the prime material plane?

Ummm...I meant as a backup measure for once the problem is solved and you have some downtime. I'm not saying "Stop what you're doing and get to a city!".

Also, what's the description for holy symbols in the PHB? I don't have one on me at the moment.

daggaz
2008-01-15, 11:02 AM
They are all different according to the various deities you can worship. They are small items tho (hand held, or an amulet, or some other piece of jewelry or similiar item), made of either wood or silver. Some of them are amazingly simple and would probably not take much of a craft check to make, like Fharlanghn, god of Travel, who has a small wooden medallion carved with a crescent etched over a curved line. Others are a little more complex, but still possible to get ahold of away from a large city, like Clangeddin Silverbeard, who's symbol is a small silver hammer. Still others, like Mystra and her stars with red mist etc.. are a little bit more difficult to craft out of the local furniture or firewood.

Devils_Advocate
2008-01-15, 05:48 PM
It kinda depends on what you define the holy power to come from. If the shape is what matters, then you can always make your own. If holy symbols in your world are personally crafted by priests who bless the symbols several times before the sale, then you're perfectly correct in not allowing the player to do such a thing. I prefer the former as holy water is stated to be sold without profit by churches, but holy symbols aren't.
But isn't it generally assumed that a cleric is a priest, or the equivalent? And as such, wouldn't it be incorrect to forbid a PC cleric from making his own holy symbol? Saying that he can't on the grounds that it has to be made and blessed by a priest of his god makes no sense, since he is a priest of his god; why wouldn't he be qualified to do it himself?

Ferreon
2008-01-15, 06:45 PM
for those saying such things as head to town. that spoiler link in the OP's post is important

because last time I read anything on the subject, that dungeon has a shanty town full of necromancers (and possibly also evil outsiders) around it. good luck walking through town, radiating an alignment that may not be evil, buck naked

To the OP; take a day, memorise three or four Summon holy symbols and continue with the adventure. try not to activate that trap again. It's purely an excuse for the DM to laugh maniacally at the mental image of a naked party trying to fight the monsters

UglyPanda
2008-01-15, 07:25 PM
I use figurative speech when I write.


Not everything I write should be taken literally.


As I've said before, the tattoo idea was for if and when they are in a safe situation in which they could purchase items without persecution. I never actually said to go to town. I said after he was in a town.
With the priest thing, I meant if holy symbols in your campaign are deliberately hard to make due to religion in your setting.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-16, 12:26 AM
Off-topic, can I just say how much the idea of a martially-focused paladin with his holy symbol scarred into his chest appeals to me? I may actually play him at some point.:smallbiggrin:

mabriss lethe
2008-01-16, 01:29 AM
Off-topic, can I just say how much the idea of a martially-focused paladin with his holy symbol scarred into his chest appeals to me? I may actually play him at some point.:smallbiggrin:

Just as long as he doesn't worship a god who's symbol is a big red "S"

loopy
2008-01-16, 02:03 AM
You could try carving your gods symbol into your forehead, then filling the wound with molten gold...

Then all you need is to get a possum pouch/bag of tricks inserted into your stomach that contains nothing but snakes and a big staff that can cast lightning bolt.

Presto! You are now a Jaffa Warrior. (Krie! Kek!)

kamikasei
2008-01-16, 05:14 AM
Off-topic, can I just say how much the idea of a martially-focused paladin with his holy symbol scarred into his chest appeals to me? I may actually play him at some point.:smallbiggrin:

I'm giggling a little here imagining how one would "forcefully present" such a symbol. We may need to replace summon holy symbol with summon intact shirt.

Dhavaer
2008-01-16, 05:30 AM
I'm giggling a little here imagining how one would "forcefully present" such a symbol. We may need to replace summon holy symbol with summon intact shirt.

"Flee! Flee, vile undead, from my manly, manly chest!"

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-16, 05:34 AM
I'm actually stating him out right now, his first level is either going to be in fighter or barb(if I can get rage house-ruled in for a lawful guy), and yes, I see an almost Shatner-esque quality to his fights. (He will get a normal symbol eventually, but for a while, he'll have to take off his shirt if undead attack)

Short background? He's in prison for assault, finds god(probably St. Cuthbert), gets in a fight over his worship of the god of justice, they decide that if his god is so important, he might as well show it and scar his holy symbol into his chest. Symbol flares with light, smite evil, new paladin, 3 unconscious thugs. :smallcool:

kamikasei
2008-01-16, 05:40 AM
"Flee! Flee, vile undead, from my manly, manly chest!"

It's a secret art passed down in his family for generations.

Sstoopidtallkid, that's a pretty cool story I think, even if to complete the picture he should really be a paladin of Kord...

Freelance Henchman
2008-01-16, 05:44 AM
"Flee! Flee, vile undead, from my manly, manly chest!"

For bonus points, make it a female Paladin. It's Paladin's Gone Wild Vol. 5!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-16, 05:49 AM
I think Cuthbert fits his personality better, he repents and spends most of his life trying to atone for his actions, and will attempt to rehabilitate anyone he can capture. EWP net, among other things, and max ranks in diplomacy. Like I said, though, I may change to Heironeous or one of the others, and I'm open to suggestions of gods who are justice or redemption focused. I'm not that familiar with the pantheon. ;)

kamikasei
2008-01-16, 05:58 AM
I think Cuthbert fits his personality better, he repents and spends most of his life trying to atone for his actions, and will attempt to rehabilitate anyone he can capture. EWP net, among other things, and max ranks in diplomacy. Like I said, though, I may change to Heironeous or one of the others, and I'm open to suggestions of gods who are justice or redemption focused. I'm not that familiar with the pantheon. ;)

*handwaves* That wasn't a serious suggestion; see Full Metal Alchemist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Military_characters_of_the_Fullmetal_Alchemi st_anime#Alex_Louis_Armstrong) for the joke. In actual seriousness, though, I imagine there's a better god than Cuthbert out there somewhere for your purposes; as I understand it he's more about the punishment than the redemption. Heironeous might work. If you're limited to the PHB pantheon, though, Ol' Sainty's probably the best of an unforgiving lot.

Dhavaer
2008-01-16, 03:25 PM
For bonus points, make it a female Paladin. It's Paladin's Gone Wild Vol. 5!

I was thinking of that more as Control Undead.

"Even you, old lich, must submit to the divine glory that is my rack!"