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View Full Version : Odd Character Combination... (TWF Crusader)



Khatoblepas
2008-01-15, 05:27 AM
(Is this Homebrew or General? I'm asking a question based on the wisdom of the other posters more than asking for critique on new material...)

Firstly, I want to thank all of you for reading this. I'm going to be running a campaign soon, and one of my players wants to have a Two-weapon fighting crusader. This is odd, considering the crusader usually isn't very synergistic with TWF (even adding the Tiger Claw discipline, there's not much you can do). I don't want this character to be totally gimped, as I like the idea of a dual wielding paladin; it's original.

I don't have that many ideas on how to make it better, as all my TWF builds have been based around kobolds with daggers. And lots and lots of sneak attack. He has his heart set on being a paladin type, and the Crusader fits the bill (got no regular classes in this campaign, just Psionics + ToB)

I'm thinking:


- Alternate TWF Feat Chain. Instead of gaining more attacks, you become more effective at the attacks you already have:

Ambidextrous [Fighter]
You are equally as capable of landing a solid blow in either of your hands.
Prerequisite: Two-Weapon Fighting, Strength 13
Benefit: You gain your full strength bonus to any off-hand attacks you make.

Twin Rend [Fighter]
You can make a wound you inflict worse using both your weapons.
Prerequisite: Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidextrous
Benefit: If you hit a single enemy with both your weapons, you deal extra damage equal to your weapon's base damage die +1 1/2 your Strength Modifier.
[[I'm also aware of Two-weapon Rend from the (I think) PHB2]]


- Most of the crusader's manuevers (barring the Martial Spirit stance) do not synergise well with two-weapons. What can I change/add to give a little more coherence to the whole?

- Is there any difference between twf with two swords and twf with a sword and a reflavored spiked shield (to be an enchanted short sword, for example) that would negatively impact the player? I need him to be able to not be totally destroyed due to low AC. He's a protector, not a glass cannon (that's his words :P)

This has stumped me for quite a while. I don't want him to be disapointed, and a TWF paladin is quite charming. It shouldn't be relegated just because it's easier to use if you have sneak attack or something.

So, uh, anyone have any ideas?

Darrin
2008-01-15, 09:41 AM
Ambidextrous [Fighter]
You are equally as capable of landing a solid blow in either of your hands.
Prerequisite: Two-Weapon Fighting, Strength 13
Benefit: You gain your full strength bonus to any off-hand attacks you make.


An entire feat for what, an extra +1 or +2 damage on offhand attacks? I'd say no.



Twin Rend [Fighter]
You can make a wound you inflict worse using both your weapons.
Prerequisite: Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidextrous
Benefit: If you hit a single enemy with both your weapons, you deal extra damage equal to your weapon's base damage die +1 1/2 your Strength Modifier.


Do you mean the maximum base damage? Eh... I'd still recommend against it. In a TWF build, feats are extremely precious, and I'm not sure spending two feats here would really outperform just picking up Power Attack.



- Most of the crusader's manuevers (barring the Martial Spirit stance) do not synergise well with two-weapons. What can I change/add to give a little more coherence to the whole?


The biggest problem with a TWF Crusader is most of the Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon and White Raven strikes are standard actions, and there aren't a lot of boosts, so not a lot of opportunities for full TWF attacks.

There are several good Charge maneuvers, however, so a Charge-oriented build could do all sorts of damage. Pick up the Travel Devotion (charge every round for 10 straight rounds) and either dip Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce or pick it up via feat with Lion Tribe Warrior (not entirely TWF-friendly) or Snow Tiger Berserker (need rage) if those are available.

A Belt of Battle will give you more actions to play around with, as will going into Ruby Knight Vindicator for Divine Impetus. Otherwise, use Martial Study to pick up a good boost or two, like Burning Blade.



- Is there any difference between twf with two swords and twf with a sword and a reflavored spiked shield (to be an enchanted short sword, for example) that would negatively impact the player? I need him to be able to not be totally destroyed due to low AC. He's a protector, not a glass cannon (that's his words :P)


Hmmm. The Two-Weapon Defensive feats are usually not worth it. You can skip TWF and get the same -2 TWF penalties by picking up Agile Shield Fighter from PHBII... this costs more feats than TWF and you lose ImpTWF/GrTWF, but is a bit more defensive (+3 AC from heavy shield). I'm not sure I'd recommend that unless you're a human dipping 2 levels of fighter.



So, uh, anyone have any ideas?

Go with a Dwarven Crusader, wield dual Dwarven Waraxes, and go with TWF + Oversize TWF. Pick up Power Attack and then the Travel Devotion. Another good option is Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes + TWF, which lets you use both Power Attack and Thicket of Blades.

playswithfire
2008-01-15, 09:53 AM
There's this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=11539199&postcount=1) build

EDIT: never mind, you said no regular classes and this one starts as bard; still might be useful for stance/maneuver selection since it is a TWFing Crusader

Myatar_Panwar
2008-01-15, 10:04 AM
As someone has already mentioned, the biggest problem is that it wouldn't be possible to use all of the standard action maneuvers. Maybe you could homebrew a feat that allowed an extra attack from your offhand when performing a maneuver? Just a thought.

Khatoblepas
2008-01-15, 11:07 AM
There's this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=11539199&postcount=1) build

EDIT: never mind, you said no regular classes and this one starts as bard; still might be useful for stance/maneuver selection since it is a TWFing Crusader

Aha! This is just what I've been looking for. I expect a spelless bard with bonus feats instead of spells would be fine for two levels... and helps get those vital vital vital TWF feats! Also helps to get some needed skills and I expect some Perform (oratory) for those inspiring speeches!

And a bonus feat to let the crusader have an additional attack when initiating a manuever seems fine as well.

I don't think reach weapon/armor spikes or axes would be quite thematic for his character - though pike and spike would be my first port of call. I LOVE that kind of thing. Thanks guys, you've been an awesome help :D

But where is Travel Devotion from? I don't have Complete Champion, I expect it's from there :P.

Darrin
2008-01-15, 12:20 PM
But where is Travel Devotion from? I don't have Complete Champion, I expect it's from there :P.

Yes, Complete Champion. You can find the description on Realmshelp:

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Travel_Devotion,CC

It allows you to move up to your speed as a swift action for 10 rounds. For TWF or Skirmish builds, this lets you move and then full attack in the same round. For a bard/crusader using his standard action to start Inspire Courage or execute single-attack maneuvers, this still leaves you with the problem of what to do with your move action. Some suggestions:

1) Shadow Stride. No prereqs, although a Bard/Crusader might have trouble picking it up with Martial Study before 12th level. Move action to shadow jump up to 50'.

2) Improved Feint. Requires Combat Expertise, but pairs up nicely with your standard action strikes.

3) Goad. Unlike Improved Feint, only requires one feat, but not all that helpful most of the time.

4) Clarion Commander. Requires another feat (White Raven Defense), but you can use "Follow Up" as a move action after a hit to provide an AoO to an ally next round. Also gives you "Perpetual Flank" as a standard action, 10 rounds of instant flanking for just an Intimidate DC 20 check.

5) Scorching Sirocco. Requires another feat (Desert Wind Dodge). Move action to cause an opponent to catch fire.