The Order of the Stick: May '05

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yer funny... How come all the Sith types were dudes then? ;)
Darth Traya. Also, the version of Darth Revan with the better dialogue.

[Shatteredtower]

I enjoyed the strip for the most part, but the Star Wars reference struck me as out of place, in much the same way that you might enjoy grape juice and lasagna, but not lasagna made with grape juice. Well, no, the latter would be ruined, while this strip was far from ruined for me, but the last bit was just an addition that didn't work for me.

However, I appear to be in the minority here (if not, then I am the minority all by myself), which suggests that the Giant knows his audience very well and has acted accordingly. I'm hardly going to blame him for that.

[Silverblaze]

Actually ... it reminds me of a Marx Bros. routine. But i forget which one and what movie.

Ok, so rep to this is a little late, but still :) I think I know what you are talking about. My thoughts drift to their "A night at the Opera" and two hardboiled eggs - I think I see a resemblance... Am I completely off track here? Which would be true Belkar style anyway ;)

[IusPotentis]

I was re-reading the comic...and I realized that it looks vaguely akin to halflings' favorite game, the question game, but even more fun.

[Hobot]

However, I appear to be in the minority here (if not, then I am the minority all by myself), which suggests that the Giant knows his audience very well and has acted accordingly. I'm hardly going to blame him for that.

Actually I agree, it did feel a bit out of place for me as well.

[nightsong]

love V's star wars line at the end! caps off a great comic. the line's quite timely actually, the final star wars movie comes out in a week

[mimicgogo]

Simply fantastic. Way to actually use feather fall. Anybody else looking for a portal in need of closing soon?

[Silverblaze]

Oh - Poor V :( - Overlooked completely - but then again; an easy thing his size taken into consideration ;D Good thing Roy managed to stop Haley from getting worked up about "the missing parts" ;) But who knows - King Ogres (and subjects) may still be waiting in the dark. That leads me to my question - who ever heard of a meteor falling down, chrasing into the earth and then to the side in the bottom?? Oh well; I guess it's fantasy *G*

[kerberos]

Simply fantastic. Way to actually use feather fall. Anybody else looking for a portal in need of closing soon?

yes, that and a big reptile in need of hypnotizing.

[ekedolphin]

OOTS #180:

Aww, poor V! First the party doesn't camp to wait for Durkon to return hir to normal, and then s/he doesn't get any credit for saving their butts. Of course, since s/he's still speaking "lizardese", it's not exactly as if they could possibly have known about it.

Kudos to Haley, anyway, for remembering that Roy also lied to her to get her to go on the mission. She's at least lest likely to inflict Stabbity Death on Roy than Belkar would've been.

And good foresight by V in preparing all three of hir spells anyway, despite their apparent worthlessness.

Now the only question remains, does the starmetal actually exist? After all, the Linear Guild gave Roy the information about the starmetal assuming it's nothing more than a town urban legend, in order to distract the Order while they rebuilt the Guild.

[Sundog]

Why do I feel a lot of fireballs coming on..?

[Muisje]

Aww, poor V!

Exactly my thoughts.

V looks so cute as a lizard. Pluch V lizard, anyone? Darn, now I get the urge to put the sewing machine on the table and buy purple cloth.
;)

[Silmarwen]

Giant, the vertical panel in the middle of the strip is excellent. It really gives the right impression of "depth" :)

And again...poor V :'(

[Fire_Wolf]

:'( Poor V.

</another repeat of every other post for this strip>

[Drandom]

Poor, poor V.

Everyone must say it!

[Nikolai_II]

That leads me to my question - who ever heard of a meteor falling down, chrasing into the earth and then to the side in the bottom?? Oh well; I guess it's fantasy *G*

That it has been moved by the current owner I have no problems with - and the reason why it isn't a crater so much as a well is also obvious.. it didn't fall down that way at all ;D

It can very well be around somewhere, it just didnät enter the base earth the same way as our intrepid heroes did - they only have information from a bunch of bandits relating second- or third-hand information and old wives tales after all.

[Celebgil]

Did V do something to offend Rich? Because s/he is taking a lot of punishment ;) and yes, I'm going to say it....*poor V* :'(

[Alexandrukas]

poor V why the heck would the party think elan had anything to do with it ??? do bards even know featherfall?

[Sneak]

Well, maybe bards don't, but they didn't know it was feather fall, they just knew an arcane caster saved them, and they think Elan is the only one. All the comics with V lizard in them have been hilarious. Poor V...I hope when he gets turned back he can tell them that he was the one who saved them, not Elan. Poor V...

[Q]

Aw... Poor V.

Everyone always overlooks the lizard!

Do not mettle in the affairs of Lizards... for they are subtle, and quick to anger. 8)


<long time reader, first time poster... Hello!>

[Janitor]

Hilarious, but you can't help but be sorry for V. I really liked Belkar when he was feather falling. Anyways, Great comic.

[The_King_of_Durf]

Poor V, I can't help but feel bad for him, though of course when he gets back to normal he'll blow up the party or something

[RebelRogue]

V looks so cute as a lizard. Pluch V lizard, anyone? Darn, now I get the urge to put the sewing machine on the table and buy purple cloth.
;)
Hehe, that would be awesome. Be sure to post pics of it if you ever get it done :)

Other than that, I guess I've got to join the "poor V-man" chorus.

[Vhesper]

So now we are in the dungeon of the blue floor, like Rich mentioned in Dungeon Crawling Fools. :)

[Shatteredtower]

I shall not feel sorry for V! Nay! Rather, I shall endeavour to convince the Giant to let me co-author a series of side stories featuring the wizard in this... more compact form.

I mean, I've long wanted to be one of the Writers of the Purple Mage...

[L_Opoponax]

I'm feeling so sad for Vaarsuvius! :'(


I shall not feel sorry for V! Nay! Rather, I shall endeavour to convince the Giant to let me co-author a series of side stories featuring the wizard in this... more compact form.

I mean, I've long wanted to be one of the Writers of the Purple Mage...
:o Oh... that was just... so bad!

[RBPRX1204]

Very funny comic. I also feel sorry for V, and I hope this baleful polymorph spell can get undo quickly.

[Brother_Hood]

I mean, I've long wanted to be one of the Writers of the Purple Mage...

You should be ashamed! :D

Horrid!

[Jevanyn]

They were climbing without a rope? Inconceivable! ;) Every 1st level character buys 50ft of silk rope. I guess they have too much booty to fit it in their packs.

Oh, and I didn't known Belkar could climb one-handed.

[hr]
From a recent LAN game:
"Hey, where are you? I could use some help."
"I'm trying to catch up, where are you?"
"Just follow the trail of dead monsters."

[archon_huskie]

Why does V say Featherfall when the spell doesn't have a somatic component?

[cerebus151]

Why does V say Featherfall when the spell doesn't have a somatic component?


S(omatic)= gestures & hand movements
V(erbal)= saying, "feather fall"

[Kasur]

All this "lizzard situation" for V.
Can be the begining of an "Alignement Change"?

[Illvin]

Why does V say Featherfall when the spell doesn't have a somatic component? Helps to underscore who is casting the spell.

This is also my first post. Hello peeps. :D

[The_Shadow]

Do not mettle in the affairs of Lizards... for they are subtle, and quick to anger. 8)

I laughed nearly as hard at this as I did at the actual comic! Well done, and welcome aboard!

[Deverien]

I've been reading through the posts, and I'm surprised no one has brought up this idea yet: V is NOT going to use Suggestion on a giant lizard. (S)He's likely going to cast it on the Mysterious Cloaked Guy since MCG is likely a ranger and can talk to animals.

[Peldor]

So now we are in the dungeon of the blue floor, like Rich mentioned in Dungeon Crawling Fools. :)

If you look more closely, you'll see "splish splish splish" in the next to last panel, suggesting the party is tramping through water, depicted here in blue. Also, the characters have little ripples shown around their feet.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Poor Vaarsuvius...

And in answer to the question of why the "crater" is wider at the bottom than at the top, clearly the pit the Order is climbing down is simply a vent where superheated air escpaed after the meteor's impact, and not the impact crater itself...

[Banjo_Buddy]

I enjoyed the strip for the most part, but the Star Wars reference struck me as out of place, in much the same way that you might enjoy grape juice and lasagna, but not lasagna made with grape juice. Well, no, the latter would be ruined, while this strip was far from ruined for me, but the last bit was just an addition that didn't work for me.

However, I appear to be in the minority here (if not, then I am the minority all by myself), which suggests that the Giant knows his audience very well and has acted accordingly. I'm hardly going to blame him for that.

No, you're not alone, but we'll have to agree to be a minority of two.

[Aerysil1]

Doesn't anyone carry grappling hooks anymore? They come in so very handy!

This comic reminds of of how I lost my first two characters. Into a fire pit!

You've brought back painful memories... I... Can't go on...

*response timeout*

[The Demented One]

All this "lizzard situation" for V.
Can be the begining of an "Alignement Change"?



What to? Lawful Lizardy? Tiny Good? Neutral Scaley?

[durandal]

demented one: lmao!
devieren: woah! good insight!

[Kish]

Bards can cast Feather Fall, but even if Elan was smart enough to pick it (doubtful), he would never have remembered he can cast spells before hitting the bottom.

They think his bard song to Inspire Competence let them climb down so well they couldn't fall. Which is...stupid. Poor Vaarsuvius.

[garand]

Ok, so rep to this is a little late, but still :) I think I know what you are talking about. My thoughts drift to their "A night at the Opera" and two hardboiled eggs - I think I see a resemblance... Am I completely off track here? Which would be true Belkar style anyway ;)

I'll have to watch it again.

Regarding more recent comics: I agree that the possibility of the blue guy getting suggested by V is high.

Also, the fact that V's speech balloons are the same as everyone else's despite the language difference goes to show that the weasel from before (talking to the blue guy/girl) was probably talking in Weasel and not actually a talking weasel. Or ferret. Or marmot. Or whatever.

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

pooooooooor V... I'd like to tell her that we all love her, maybe that will cheer her up a little... V RULES! Rich, tell her that!

[IusPotentis]

All this "lizzard situation" for V.
Can be the begining of an "Alignement Change"?


What to? Lawful Lizardy? Tiny Good? Neutral Scaley?

Medium Rare?

[Scorpina]

Having read through all the strips I missed while I was away, I don't get how V became a lizard...

[phlip]

S/he was hexed (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=176) by the hag/annis...
Arg, too many /'s in that sentance.

[The_King_of_Durf]

The hag or possibly annis cast a spell on him in the first panel of the fight

EDIT: Argh, those damn simuposts struck again

[Scorpina]

Aha! I get it! Must've missed that in all the hilarity...

Thanks!

[Shatteredtower]

No, you're not alone, but we'll have to agree to be a minority of two.

Thank you, although I have since figured out how one way in which can be applicable (and also cause for viewing the "Dead Parrot Sketch" strip with more tolerance).

If we accept that these are player characters as well as characters in a comic strip, it is inevitable that someone at the table will try to slip a reference into the gaming, whether it's entirely appropriate or not. I can't recall how many times one group I played with quoted Aliens over the course of a particular campaign...

In that light, it certainly fits. I may view it as distracting, but I have to accept that asides that take us momentarily out of game are quite common at most tables. So I'm going to blame the player and not the writer. ;)

And as for the purple mage reference, blame Philip Jose Farmer, who used a similar pun for at least two of his short stories. ;)

[Scorpina]

Thank you, although I have since figured out how one way in which can be applicable (and also cause for viewing the "Dead Parrot Sketch" strip with more tolerance).

If we accept that these are player characters as well as characters in a comic strip, it is inevitable that someone at the table will try to slip a reference into the gaming, whether it's entirely appropriate or not. I can't recall how many times one group I played with quoted Aliens over the course of a particular campaign...

In that light, it certainly fits. I may view it as distracting, but I have to accept that asides that take us momentarily out of game are quite common at most tables. So I'm going to blame the player and not the writer. ;)

I have to deal with that alot, and if I approach a bridge to be greated with 'He would cross the bridge of death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see." once more I shall scream.

[Chaosmage]

I've figured it out, V was not baleful polymorphed. V was hexed, the hex first makes V look like a lizard then make everyone forget V isn't a lizard, and finally of course it will make V forget that V is not a lizard.


You probably want evidence though, well most of my proof lies in the fact that the hag-like creature didn't say baleful polymorph she just made hexes appear which struck V. Therefor it was a hex not a baleful polymorph. That and look how everyone has forgotten about V.

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe spell-like abilities don't require verbal components.

[Yuki Akuma]

Maybe spell-like abilities don't require verbal components.

They don't require components at all, actually.

[The Glyphstone]

So, the Hag could - never mind. The D20 SRD doesn't list Baleful Polymorph as a spell-like ability for any type of hag. Maybe it had the Silent Spell feat.

[Nikolai_II]

So, the Hag could - never mind. The D20 SRD doesn't list Baleful Polymorph as a spell-like ability for any type of hag. Maybe it had the Silent Spell feat.

It does list what CR adjustments the DM should make once he has given a monster a new ability, even going as far as outright suggesting that any type of spell-like or supernatural ability can be added.

My players splurged on "delay poison" when going up against a hive of giant wasps this weekend, so of course I had to give the queen a little bit of acid damage to her sting to even things out a bit :P

[Chaosmage]

So, the Hag could - never mind. The D20 SRD doesn't list Baleful Polymorph as a spell-like ability for any type of hag. Maybe it had the Silent Spell feat.

Ah, but V says feather fall even though its unnecessary as its a spell V can cast without verbal or somatic components

[jaelte]

It's quite simple, really. We, the readers failed our Spellcraft check when the hag/annis cast her hex/polymorph. This is shown by the fact that there is no speech bubble. When V cast Feather Fall, we made the check and therefore a bubble appeared.

[PokeTheBard]

It's quite simple, really. We, the readers failed our Spellcraft check when the hag/annis cast her hex/polymorph. This is shown by the fact that there is no speech bubble. When V cast Feather Fall, we made the check and therefore a bubble appeared.

That makes so much sense its scary. And therefore obviously not true ;D

Its obvious what really happened... Elan turned Belkar into a wombat JUST as Durkon stopped time... wombats however have a knack for being able to travel about unhindered in "No-time". Being in the air at the time, the wombat-Belkar went on a seven year quest to free himself of the wombat form and continue time, as he reached his goal he found a portal which would set things right but it needed a sacrifice... so Belkar sacrificed Vaarsuvius' Elfness! Then fell on the Hag and smushed her.


Ciao!

[Sundog]

I hereby Poke the Bard.. ;D

It's six o'clock...no OOts...holding on by fingernails...{WHIIIINE}....

[Arian]

Soft Western Australians. In some places, it's after eight!

[Nikolai_II]

And I have had to wait past 1pm already ;D

I think Rich is trying to teach the grasshoppers some patience ;)

[Q]

Thank you, although I have since figured out how one way in which can be applicable (and also cause for viewing the "Dead Parrot Sketch" strip with more tolerance).

If we accept that these are player characters as well as characters in a comic strip, it is inevitable that someone at the table will try to slip a reference into the gaming, whether it's entirely appropriate or not. I can't recall how many times one group I played with quoted Aliens over the course of a particular campaign...

In that light, it certainly fits. I may view it as distracting, but I have to accept that asides that take us momentarily out of game are quite common at most tables. So I'm going to blame the player and not the writer. ;)

And as for the purple mage reference, blame Philip Jose Farmer, who used a similar pun for at least two of his short stories. ;)


My last DM instituted a "no Monty Python reference" Rule for our games... anyone who broke it got a Notoriety point... Of course, there were times one just HAD to break it and consequences be damne. ;D

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Bet that one was easy to draw as well as funny. :)

[Pvednes]

Ooo..I think I know where Rich ish gonna go with this. :D

[Aerysil1]

Yay, dragon!

[The Giant]

The hag used a spell-like ability.


Ah, but V says feather fall even though its unnecessary as its a spell V can cast without verbal or somatic components

According to my PHB, it has a verbal component.

[kerberos]

Ooo..I think I know where Rich ish gonna go with this. :D

Ahh, yes of course.

[Sundog]

[/WHINE]

Ah, not late after all.

Hm, I wonder if it's the Black Dragon who cast the darkness spell.

Of course, there's also the question of how they were seeing in the first place, I didn't see any light sources...

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I wonder what this new foe is. A black dragon of some sort?

[Frito_Butterbuns]

This cartoon reminded me of the infamous Snowbird v. Wendigo battle during a blizzard in Alpha Flight. I doubt the Giant was rushed or anything, but it was the first thing that came to mind, and it made me chuckle.

[wocky]

Strangely enough... they came across the 3.0 version of Darkness. In 3.5 it lightens more than it darkens.

[Kaerou]

yay cute dragon!

That V can communicate with :D

*suggestion* maybe you could let us pass..?

[Janitor]

That was a great comic. I bet many are happy to see a dragon, but I'm sure the OotS are not.

[Nikolai_II]

[/WHINE]
Hm, I wonder if it's the Black Dragon who cast the darkness spell.

Of course, there's also the question of how they were seeing in the first place, I didn't see any light sources...

I think it is a Shadow Dragon ;)

Aah.. ubiquitous adventure lightning. ;D

[RBPRX1204]

Wasn't that Sasquatch vs Snowbird? I can't remember, but Windingo didn't make all that many appearences in those classic comics.

Very good comic. I loved the "event horizon" of the darkness. My gaming group saw one of those before tripping into it. Saved a lot of trouble. I'm not sure lizards necessarly speak Draconic, but it's a fun idea.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ooh, ooh, I got one.

What kind of monster is big, black, ugly, and can understand reptiles?

*Spoiler*
A Black Dragon!

The question is, of course, just how loyal is Vaarsuvius to the party at this point?

[Jaqrabbit]

Lizards don't have to speak Draconic, as long as Dragons speak Lizard. ;D

[Kasur]

What to? Lawful Lizardy? Tiny Good? Neutral Scaley?

Jajaja, thats a good one.
Caotic Green or quadruped Evil are my presumption.

[Bill]

Don't most dragons have blindsight? That'd be a good reason for one to use Darkness. It can "see" the adventurers but they are blinded.

[garand]

The question is, of course, just how loyal is Vaarsuvius to the party at this point?

I don't think V has much choice but to be loyal. The party, even though they seem to have forgotten at this point, are the only people alive who know that V was probably turned into the lizard. If s/he abandons the party they will probably die and s/he will be stuck as a lizard for a long time (unless s/he can somehow find someone that can understand lizard AND cast Dispell Magic or Remove Curse or whatever).

Which brings me back to the Hag/Annis casting without apparent verbal components:

If the Hag/Annis had said "Baleful Polymorph!" when casting at V then it would have blown the entire gag for that panel. You people need to remember that you are reading a SATIRICAL COMIC BOOK and not an EXAMPLE OF THE RULES.

[chibibar]

The hag used a spell-like ability.


According to my PHB, it has a verbal component.

now here is an interesting question... does V have still spell? (cast without verbal component?) or the spell magical word can be cast via verbal as long you can pronounce it right? (i.e. as long YOU understand the spell it still happens?)

I figure it is my 2nd reason mainly other races can still cast the same spell (different speak and such)

then again.. with only three spells... V can use any kind of magical feat like Still, maximize etc etc :) since V cannot cast anything else ;)


Top that off: there is always HOUSE rules ;) Gotta love D&D

[Frito_Butterbuns]

Wasn't that Sasquatch vs Snowbird? I can't remember, but Windingo didn't make all that many appearences in those classic comics.



Yes, my mistake...it was the Great Beast version.

[Kish]

It really was amazingly stupid of the rest of the Order not to turn Vaarsuvius back before they went into the rift. They ought to have known there would be a boss battle at the end of the side quest.

[jgf]

The hag used a spell-like ability.

[Scratch, scratch, scratch the puzzled forehead.] V got hit by a Veil (spell-like ability of a hag covey)?

[garand]

No, the hag was a modified version of a regular Hag and used a spell-like ability based on Baleful Polymorph.

*sigh*

[garand]

More importantly .... What does it matter? What is going to happen? Someone's going to say "There's no way that the Hag could have done that without verbal components!"

And then is the Giant supposed to go "Oh my stars and garters, you're right! I better go back and change the whole comic for you because it didn't own up to your rules lawyering standards!"

Come on people. There's a thread for nit-picking ... take this there. This is about telling a STORY ... not being a simulation of actual D&D rules.

I would hate to DM for some of you people cause you would question every story element I put out there if it didn't match up to your interpretation of the rules. The Giant is the "DM" of the OotS and the golden rule of RPGs everywhere is that whatt the DM says goes. Period. If he decides that the Hag doesn't need verbal components ... then it doesn't need verbal components .. end of story. He shouldn't have to justify it the way he already did.

[RBPRX1204]

Easy there Garand, we are all just having fun here. I can appreciate your enthusiasm for this comic, and the message boards here. People here just sometimes like to debate the stuff in the comic, and yes, it could be done over at the Nit-Pickers topic, but they choose to express their opinions here. That's where the Mods come in. They can decide if things are going off coarce or whatever, and make corrections. We like to think that we are a pretty easy going group here, but we sometimes can get too serious about what kinda spell was used (even though I believe the Giant [Rich] settled that already) but that is everyones right. If you see something going on that you don't like or think is wrong, feel free to IM a Mod. Lord knows I have on many occasions. They are very helpful and pleasant to deal with. And, as always, good day to you Garand.

[Drizzt_Fanboy_74]

Uhh....today's is pretty funny, but could be interpreted as "Rich wasn't feeling well and/or was lazy, so he made a comic that was mostly black panels and when it wasn't black panels it was simple corridors". Still pretty funny, the dialogue is better than most. Then again, I guess it would have to be with limited visuals. V's rant throughout the whole thing is gold.

[evileeyore]

Don't most dragons have blindsight? That'd be a good reason for one to use Darkness. It can "see" the adventurers but they are blinded.



Tremorsense actually, and yes they are screwed.

I'd say its a Shadow Dragon, so doubly bent. Will we see an OotS death in this fight?

I know when my last party to fight a shadow dragon faced one down, we almost bite it, and we were all 12th-14th. We survived only because my Rogue sacrificed himself and used my every expendable scroll (Blink on uor fighter, Protection from Negaitvie Energy on the wizard, and my wand of Cure Medium on everyone) during the fight. I also managed to consistently flank the beast and deliver enough damage to it that it was always blasting me and someone else with its Drain breathe (I moved so it wouldn't nail anyone more than once or twice, except me...). I lost 12 of 13 levels in that fight, after making some of my saves. It was rough. Restoration rocks on toast.

[Hypersmurf]

Tremorsense actually, and yes they are screwed.

Blindsense, actually :)

I was a little disappointed... after the 'We're being converted to 3.5!' at the very beginning, I felt certain Rich would take into account the whole Dimness/Deeper Dimness controversy!

-Hyp.

[Lilly]

Let's everyone breath... In...2...3...4, Out...2...3...4.

Do we feel better now? Good.

Reading the comic while knowing D&D rules is like watching a movie of your favorite book. You know how it's suspossed to be, but you just have to accept that it's better for the medium for some things to change. And that they are often for the better. And that screaming "They didn't explain the map!!1!/Hag's can't do that!!1!" won't help.


I just love this newest comic. V's running comentary is super awsome cool. And the dragon is CUTE!

It's a black dragon. It lives in a swamp, is black, has green acid breath and is black.

[The Giant]

Uhh....today's is pretty funny, but could be interpreted as "Rich wasn't feeling well and/or was lazy, so he made a comic that was mostly black panels and when it wasn't black panels it was simple corridors". Still pretty funny, the dialogue is better than most. Then again, I guess it would have to be with limited visuals. V's rant throughout the whole thing is gold.

Considering I did a run of three comics where the entire cast was invisible for all or part of each strip, I'm a bit surprised by this attitude. However, I will gladly refund you the full purchase price of this comic if you are unsatisfied.


Strangely enough... they came across the 3.0 version of Darkness. In 3.5 it lightens more than it darkens.

Common misconception. If the area is lighter than "shadowy illumination" in the first place, than radiating "shadowy illumination" is a step worse on the visibility scale. Thus, it darkens.

There are people who seem to believe also that if the area is darker than shadowy, the 3.5 spell makes it better on the visibility scale by upgrading it to shadowy. There's not much support for this other than a deliberately obtuse reading of the language, but either way, since the corridor was clearly lit before the spell, there is no doubt that Darkness makes it darker.

[AtomicKitKat]

Black Dragon, Juvenile or older. Black because it's got that funky green acid fume thing going on(like Lilly mentioned), and Juvenile because that's the first age category when they can use Darkness as a SLA(once per day) Environment(or at least the vicinity) matches too(Warm Marshes) I bet the acid breath was what made the well so slippery too. ;D

[evileeyore]

Blindsense, actually :)

-Hyp.


Dude I was pwned by Hypersmurf... again?

You heard my bad rules calls all the way over from ENWorld didn't ya?

[Kasur]

Wich level are our heroes?
If they are lvl 3, they are toast. :o

[The_King_of_Durf]

Levels for the OOTS have not been set and probably never will be, besides they definitely are not level 3. I mean, look at some of the things they do in separate comics. They killed a friggin' chimaera, actually just two of them together killed it, they're much higher than 3rd level

[Sneak]

"As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so; powerful enough to have a bunch of different storytelling options, weak enough that I can justify them running away from anything I throw at them."

The above quote is from The Giant.

[RBPRX1204]

In all things OOTS, the Giant is wise. Our faith is in the Giant. ;D

[KreenWarrior]

Can't dragons communicate with any living creature? Or was that 2nd Ed? If so, here's a chance for V to use Suggestion.

[Mr._Blinky]

Can't dragons communicate with any living creature? Or was that 2nd Ed? If so, here's a chance for V to use Suggestion.

Yeeeeah, that's not gonna' work on a dragon.

[Hypersmurf]

Common misconception. If the area is lighter than "shadowy illumination" in the first place, than radiating "shadowy illumination" is a step worse on the visibility scale. Thus, it darkens.

Absolutely. But only to 'shadowy illumination'... which is the same as the light shed by a candle. You can still see people, though they have concealment.


There are people who seem to believe also that if the area is darker than shadowy, the 3.5 spell makes it better on the visibility scale by upgrading it to shadowy. There's not much support for this other than a deliberately obtuse reading of the language...

There's not much support for anything else! :)

The spell radiates shadowy illumination.

In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. A creature can’t hide in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover.

In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.

In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded.

If you're in darkness, you are effectively blinded. If you then cast darkness, the spell radiates shadowy illumination in a certain area. Within that area - an area of shadowy illumination - a character can see dimly.


... but either way, since the corridor was clearly lit before the spell, there is no doubt that Darkness makes it darker.

Absolutely. But only to 'shadowy illumination'...

:)

This post - and my earlier 'I was a little disappointed' - should in no way be construed as dissatisfaction with the comic. Love the comic! ;)

But 'shadowy illumination' is a clearly-defined mechanic in 3.5 :)

-Hyp.

[Hypersmurf]

Yeeeeah, that's not gonna' work on a dragon.

Well, it's not immune.

As long as you can beat the SR and the Will Save, and satisfy the language-dependent requirement, you can Suggest a dragon just fine :)

... which is often easier said than done, but not necessarily impossible.

-Hyp.

[jgf]

Reminder to self not post anything on a gaming forum that can be misconstrued... Which means not posting at all. ;) My post 'twas all in jest (well, mostly), hence leading off with the hopefully-humorous parody of Elan.

I was going to say V got hit by a mispelling hex, but someone beat me to it. "Do not mettle in the affairs of Lizards... for they are subtle, and quick to anger." Glee!

Possibly off-topic: which character has failed the most spot checks? I remember Belkar missing the room of goblin ninjas, the chimera, and the ninja panel of Ninja vs. Pirate Rogue strip. At least, he keeps giving the classic OOC line, "Wait, I think I just failed a spot check." Some ranger, some WIS. ;)

[DarkLight140]

My first thought after seeing this comic was, "Wait, don't black dragons get to charm and speak with lizards?" After a bit of SRD-ing, it turns out that's not until they're great wyrms, so the odds of that happening next are low, but would it ever have been funny...

[durandal]

However, I will gladly refund you the full purchase price of this comic if you are unsatisfied.

LOL ;D

nehoo, i enjoyed this one alot... its also given me that nice feeling of anticipation that'll last for two days, until wednesday... is V gonna pull the second of her anti-somatic hijinks?

EDIT: dagnabit! caps lock!

[garand]

Hey, sorry everyone. I was just feeling a little hypersensitive. Not sure why. One of those days. (Probably has something to do with the devilry of Retail).

Again, sorry, and I wasn't trying to single you out JGF. It was more of a Broad Stroke of Irritation.

[RBPRX1204]

Yeah, retail can do that to people. I've worked in retail for 15 years, now, so I'm pretty warped.

[The Giant]

The whole "darkness creates illumination" idea has long been trumpeted as proof that version 3.5 is a plot to steal your life's savings and that the authors of it kill and eat babies. I can accept that there are wordings in certain spells that don't do exactly what the authors intended them to do; to me, that's not something to parody. That would be kicking someone who made a word choice mistake, which is just mean. OOTS is about making fun of the things that work exactly the way the authors intended, only in a way that doesn't mimic real life at all. So no, there won't be any mention of the darkness issue in the strip, because as far as I am concerned, that is at best a non-issue, and at worst, a grammatical error.

[Sc00by]

Good Answer ;)

People really do seem to forget the most important part of OotS, it's not how true to AD&D it is or anything else, it's how FUNNY it is. And tbh since the book release it's been consistantly side-splittingly funny... That's all that matters

Good work Rich - can't wait to see what the gang are going to do about their present predicament either.

[Sundog]

Ah, tomorrow, tomorrow...

[Hypersmurf]

The whole "darkness creates illumination" idea has long been trumpeted as proof that version 3.5 is a plot to steal your life's savings and that the authors of it kill and eat babies.

I've seen that, but I don't agree with it. I don't consider it '3.5 is bad and evil!' - I just see it as an amusing effect of the spell.

Like Ray of Enfeeblement as a Protection from Shadows spell.


OOTS is about making fun of the things that work exactly the way the authors intended, only in a way that doesn't mimic real life at all. So no, there won't be any mention of the darkness issue in the strip, because as far as I am concerned, that is at best a non-issue, and at worst, a grammatical error.

But it wasn't "Darkness creates illumination" that I was hoping to see in the strip - it was "Darkness isn't actually dark in 3.5" that I was expecting... which is exactly the way the authors intended. They deliberately rewrote the spell so that it makes things a little bit hazy instead of pitch-black.

Whether you consider the spell to light up blackness or not, it's completely unambiguous that if it's cast in a well-lit room, it makes things shadowy, not black.

Now, I completely agree - the most important thing is the story, not the adherence to 3.5 mechanics. But if you're looking to make fun of 'things working the way the authors intended', 3.5 Dimness is certainly a valid target.

-Hyp.

[Dragon_Rider]

Very excellent point Hyp. I have always played that it creates a globe of darkness, just as in the comic. For example, the author RA Salvatore uses Drizzt's Globe of darkness racial ability just the same, Drizzt will often drop a GoD on top of him and his opponent to give him (Drizzt) the advantage, and it is often in a well lit room or outside.

[Kasur]

"As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so; powerful enough to have a bunch of different storytelling options, weak enough that I can justify them running away from anything I throw at them."

The above quote is from The Giant.

Roger That. Thanks for the info.
So, they can face it, but the lack of the spellcaster can be a problen eitherway.

[RawBearNYC]

Roger That. Thanks for the info.
So, they can face it, but the lack of the spellcaster can be a problen eitherway.


Actually, they have a spellcaster, and he's got slots full of Hold Portal, Suggestion and Feather Fall. Hopefully, this beast speaks lizard, and suggestion will work on him.

[radishlaw]

Actually, they have a spellcaster, and he's got slots full of Hold Portal, Suggestion and Feather Fall. Hopefully, this beast speaks lizard, and suggestion will work on him.

Now there is a point I missed; a wizard will have more slots than spells if they can only use 3.... *wink* ;)

[Zherog]

And, of course, there's always Durkon and *snicker* Elan. ;D

Hypersmurf said:

Like Ray of Enfeeblement as a Protection from Shadows spell.

Huh? ??? * runs to read RoE * I don't get it... ??? How does RoE protect from Shadows?

Oh, and... * waves * Haven't seen you in a while, Hyp.

[Kish]

For example, the author RA Salvatore uses Drizzt's Globe of darkness racial ability just the same, Drizzt will often drop a GoD on top of him and his opponent to give him (Drizzt) the advantage, and it is often in a well lit room or outside.
Drizzt was created as a 2ed character.

[Nikolai_II]

Actually, they have a spellcaster, and he's got slots full of Hold Portal, Suggestion and Feather Fall. Hopefully, this beast speaks lizard, and suggestion will work on him.

Else they'd better start looking for portals like real fast ;D

[Drizzt_Fanboy_74]

Drizzt was created as a 2ed character.

Regardless, the advantage was held in the fact that he could fight blind. Think of his training with Montolio DeBrouchee.

[Dragon_Rider]

She is reffering to the fact he was created as 2e because globe fo darkness was different then, not because of the fact he can fight in the darkness well.

Still, even though he was a 2e character, RA salvatore has written 3.5e books with him, the hunters trilogy to be precise. But we're getting off track.

[Hypersmurf]

How does RoE protect from Shadows?

Well, the only way a Shadow can kill you is if your Str drops to zero.

If your the subject of a Ray of Enfeeblement, your Str cannot drop below 1.

It's probably not what they meant, but it's what they wrote.


Oh, and... * waves * Haven't seen you in a while, Hyp.

I haven't been frequenting WotC - you'll find me at EN World, though.

-Hyp.

[Kish]

Still, even though he was a 2e character, RA salvatore has written 3.5e books with him, the hunters trilogy to be precise.
I had quit reading by that time. :P So I may be wrong, but I doubt Salvatore altered the effects of anything that changed between Editions. If Drizzt's Darkness ability created darkness in 2ed and thus in earlier books, and dimness in 3.5ed, I would expect it to continue to create darkness in the books, because Salvatore wouldn't want readers who don't follow D&D editions to go, "wait, it was true darkness before, wtf?"

[Chaosmage]

Let us not forget that though it is important to meedle in the affairs of w/lizards its more important to not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup

and from her reaction it appears Haley agrees with me

[KreenWarrior]

Yeeeeah, that's not gonna' work on a dragon. Hey, dragons can roll natural 1's too!

[mastroyo]

What has V done to you, Giant?
>:(

Great Comic, jokes aside...
"the laws of probability" and belkar around the dragon's neck: invaluable...

[mimicgogo]

Lizard tastes like chicken. It really does. Mmmmmm.

[Lilly]

I know this will eventually lead to greater character development for V, but right now "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Not V!

Belkar, we could be rid of him, but not V.

[Nikolai_II]

I'm sad to say that the RAW doesn't seem to support the notion of treating a dragons mouth as a door, gate, window, or shutter of wood, metal, or stone so I'm afraid that Hold Portal shouldn't work.

I'll refer the reader to my signature and hold my thumbs for V in any case. :)

[Peregrine]

Nooo! Vaarsuvius!

Honestly, I'm torn between shock'n'horror at V's apparent fate, and dying myself of laughter. :D Truly inspired.

(Though the need to beat spell resistance could have lengthened the odds on a successful suggestion anyway.)

[Edna]

Oh, no!

Now we have to wait until Friday to find out how V is going to Suggest or Hold Portal his/her way out of a dragon...

Edna

[jgf]

Look! V is still part of the team! He/She is cleverly distracting the dragon (with only low-level spells, I might add) so his/her teammates can subdue the dragon. [Resolutely ignores the fact that Haley's arrows are going "bink" and said noble sacrifice is chow.] Gonna wake up any second now...

[AtomicKitKat]

What has V done to you, Giant?
>:(

Great Comic, jokes aside...
"the laws of probability" and belkar around the dragon's neck: invaluable...


Notice the dragon's claw reaching up to fling the pest away...

[Lurker_in_the_Dark]

OMG!

I cannot believe my stomach sunk as I read that last panel...it's only a cartoon!

[Dr_Nno]

Could V still cast spells while in the dragon's stomach? This could lead to a potentially disgusting "Regurgitate!" command when the Suggestion takes effect.

And how can V wear a Ring of Wizardry in her lizard shape? Her circlet fell on the ground, the ring should have done the same.


Edit: As a side note, Belkar "almost" died, and V is "potentially" dead (but cannot die, because we love her so very much). Are we on a roll? Who will be next?

[Nikolai_II]

And how can V wear a Ring of Wizardry in her lizard shape? Her circlet fell on the ground, the ring should have done the same.


Wondrous items can only be worn by humanoids, changing size as needed (this doesn't include newts) while rings can be worn by anything with digits, changing size and shape as needed?

[Payne]

Hmmm reminds me of a comedy bit that could save V the man (accept it).

In the body the organs are debating who is really in charge.
The brain claims to be the siege of all toughts, the stomach and lungs debate that they keep everything alive.
The butt then lays a claim of lordship over all (to everyone's derision).
The he treathens to clamp up...
He won.

V should use that "hold portal" on the other end. ;D

[Gez]

Today, we're learning a very important lesson, folk:

If you want to play a race with -2 Con, don't play a class with d4 HD; and if you want to play a class with d4 HD, don't play a race with -2 Con.

Just think -- if V was slain and reincarnated as a dwarf or a gnome, s/he would dramatically increase, in fact even nearly double if the Con score was low, hir hit point total.

Too bad Durkon isn't a druid. Reincarnation is a great source of fun. ;D

[Meagen]

Well, the only way a Shadow can kill you is if your Str drops to zero.

If your the subject of a Ray of Enfeeblement, your Str cannot drop below 1.

It's probably not what they meant, but it's what they wrote.


Doesn't it just mean that your Str cannot drop below zero *from* the Ray spell? I.e. the Ray can't kill you by dropping your Str to zero?

[Hypersmurf]

Doesn't it just mean that your Str cannot drop below zero *from* the Ray spell? I.e. the Ray can't kill you by dropping your Str to zero?

It's likely that was the intention. But it's not what they wrote.

"The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1."

Are you the subject of the spell? Then your Strength score cannot drop below 1.

As opposed to "Ray of Enfeeblement cannot drop the subject's Strength score below 1" or "The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1 as a result of this penalty".

-Hyp.

[Silmarwen]

spit it out !


SPIT IT OUT I SAY!!!!!!

[Eloco]

Im afraid V made a grave mistake ::) V had the beast off guard and could have kept it there as a distraction, but chose to flex his wizardly muscle... Im afraid all it will get him is digested heh

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

NO! Everyone, but not V! Giant, spare her... please... spaaaare her... *melts in tears* You can't do that, not our V, not V, nohohohoho *sobs*

[SilveryCord]

Looks like I was right about the large lizard (dragon, close enough) thing... Now a hold portal spell...

[RBPRX1204]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

This can't be right. We can't loose any of our order. We need V!!!!!

[Kaerou]

Aww.. looks like the dragon was pretty interested in talking / befriending V before she started with the spells.

*ponders watching 'enter the dragon', but realises she just did* =P

[The_King_of_Durf]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
V!!
Is this the end?
I can't wait till Friday... poor V

[Sneak]

:o :o :o :'( :'( :'( :o :'( :'( :o :o :o :'(

OH MY GOD!!!!!

I just read the comic a minute or so ago....I was shocked, worried, sad...is this the end of V?

God I hope not.... :-/

P.S. Sorry for the overuse of smilies.

[Vik]

Am I the only one to think that V is IN the dragon mouth, so that the elf can (and will) still cast spells ?

[Q]

Oh no, Cliffhanger! :o

[jgf]

And how can V wear a Ring of Wizardry in her lizard shape? Her circlet fell on the ground, the ring should have done the same.

Possibly now the RoW is now big enough to be worn as a circlet. ;D

[Black_Sheep]

hahahaha, take THAT you pompus JERK!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Will V escape from the dragon's mouth? Will the dragon be defeated?

Tune in friday for the next episode. Same Stick Time! Same Stick URL!

[garand]

We discussed armor before. Perhaps rings automatically have the Resize property. *shrugs*

I'd post my theory on what happens next but I'd rather wait and see.

[Nikolai_II]

We discussed armor before. Perhaps rings automatically have the Resize property. *shrugs*


Or perhaps magical otems of different classes behave differently ::) ;)

(Armors/Weapons need properties for resize/shape change, Wondrous Items only change size (maybe you could by a property to make them change shape), rings are usable by anything (but never more than two at a time) etc.)

[Aurora_dSol]

I just see V's tail in the dragon's mouth :'(

Maybe V got away! (Lizards can shed their tails in stressful situations, I think)

Run V, Run! :o

[Kasur]

In all parties, soon or later, someone is down.
And allways is one of the most significant/friendly/loved one. :(

[The Giant]

And how can V wear a Ring of Wizardry in her lizard shape? Her circlet fell on the ground, the ring should have done the same.


Wondrous items can only be worn by humanoids, changing size as needed (this doesn't include newts) while rings can be worn by anything with digits, changing size and shape as needed?

What evidence is there that V's circlet is magical, and not just a fashion choice?

[Aerysil1]

I was half expecting Haley to just stand inside the breath weapon and look at us with a thumbs up - "Evasion!" *wink*

That's what we do at our tabletop sessions now whenever someone makes an evasion Reflex save :)

You trend-setter, you!

[Chaosmage]

Hey maybe V is posionus. I'm not sure that would actually help V.

Someone needs to hit the dragon in the stomach so it'll spit V out. Hmm.....does suggesting an allergy work?

[Gaithwain]

Cute comics, love the story line. V's not gone, no way we could take out any of the main's and still have it be OotS. Have faith all of ye, doubt not the Giant.



Hyp, nothing personal, couldn't dissagree with you more on your word lawyerly interpretations of either of those spells. Darkness is darkness, that's the intent, no matter how you read the words. And Ray is for feebling, it has no restorative effect what-so-ever. How would negative energy possible make you resistant to other negative energy? Just not the intent, though you can read the words as you wish.

[Shadeus]

I think the only question is now, is what's going to come out of the dragon in a few days enough of V's remains to have raise dead cast on him? ;D

[AtomicKitKat]

Today, we're learning a very important lesson, folk:

If you want to play a race with -2 Con, don't play a class with d4 HD; and if you want to play a class with d4 HD, don't play a race with -2 Con.

Just think -- if V was slain and reincarnated as a dwarf or a gnome, s/he would dramatically increase, in fact even nearly double if the Con score was low, hir hit point total.

Too bad Durkon isn't a druid. Reincarnation is a great source of fun. ;D

I disagree. Hitpoints may mean a lot, but when your intention is to gain vast amounts of magical power(like V is), there is only one goal. Lichdom. The (Un)Holy Grail of all power-hungry wizards. At that point, your hp will suddenly TRIPLE, and should you manage to become a Paragon Lich(Don't ask), you could well wind up with something like SIX times your wizard levels in hp. And should you achieve the ultimate goal, Vecnafication, well, let's just say 480+480 hp(assuming level 40 wizardry) is nothing to sneeze at. Especially when you're immune to many things that depend upon your constitution(No more 1 hit KOs unless it's a maximised Disintegrate/Hammer of God/OP spell of the week with ridiculous save DC! Well, a very powerful smite from a big time Paladin maybe...)

[GypsyThorn]

First, I wish to congratulate two writers (could look them up, too lazy) who correctly predicted Suggestion and Digestion as the possible attacks, respectfully, of V and the Dragon. Very seldom do anything we predict actually come through. I guess the Law of Averages does work.

Now, for a short discussion of dragon anatomy....

Since "stuff" comes out of the dragon's mouth when it breathes, it must be produced somewhere within the dragon. Except for Acid, I don't think any breath weapon would be produced in the stomach. (I picture the Black Dragon's attack as projectile vomiting. Any parent would shudder at the thought.) There must be some other organ in which Breath attacks originate - maybe the lungs, maybe something else, but not the stomach.

When the dragon breathes, the path to the digestive system must be somehow cut off. Maybe a flap of skin, maybe a general tightening like the doors on the starship Enterprise. Sort of like - A PORTAL!

Now V's goal is to hold on to tooth or tongue, wait for the next breath, cast Hold Portal and pray for a natural 1.

[Yuki Akuma]

First, I wish to congratulate two writers (could look them up, too lazy) who correctly predicted Suggestion and Digestion as the possible attacks, respectfully, of V and the Dragon. Very seldom do anything we predict actually come through. I guess the Law of Averages does work.

Now, for a short discussion of dragon anatomy....

Since "stuff" comes out of the dragon's mouth when it breathes, it must be produced somewhere within the dragon. Except for Acid, I don't think any breath weapon would be produced in the stomach. (I picture the Black Dragon's attack as projectile vomiting. Any parent would shudder at the thought.) There must be some other organ in which Breath attacks originate - maybe the lungs, maybe something else, but not the stomach.

When the dragon breathes, the path to the digestive system must be somehow cut off. Maybe a flap of skin, maybe a general tightening like the doors on the starship Enterprise. Sort of like - A PORTAL!

Now V's goal is to hold on to tooth or tongue, wait for the next breath, cast Hold Portal and pray for a natural 1.

The energy for a dragon's breath weapon is produced in the draconis fundamentum (a gland only dragons possess) (Draconomicon, page 8), which is located forward of the stomach, and supplies the dragon's stomach with the elemental energy it uses for digestion (only Black, Copper and Green dragons have stomach acid, oddly), and also supplies energy to the lungs for use as a breath weapon.

I love the Draconomicon.

[Alexandrukas]

Oh NO POOR V

[Nikolai_II]

What evidence is there that V's circlet is magical, and not just a fashion choice?

I did consider that as an option, but forgot to mention it. Sorry.

[Sundog]

This confirms it: Vaarsuvius is too smart for her own good.

Heck, it was just a Suggestion spell when all's said and done! What could she have done to the Dragon even if she'd gotten it off!!?

[Zod]

OH NOES!!!!! V got eaten! Or did she?


I, like others, dont believe V is dead. Just sleeping for a long, long time...

[Mask]

WHAT is it that they're standing on?

Their feet make some sort of... ripples... and it's all blue?

[Poeir]

It's water.

Did anyone else expect the dragon to respond to V's "You will still roll a natural 1..." statement with "True, except that we have no need to continue this exercise indefinitely?"

[Bribri]

Brihi first time posting *waves*

I'm in the V isn't dead boat. Mostly because a wizard of that level could easily survive a dragon bite attack (unless the dragon was a great wyrm or something, but it looks too small for that). V hasn't been hurt tell now so he's fine! Well ok, he's likely at half health or worst.. but ehn, just not dead (unless the dragon got a critical but that's another story).

Way I for see it, giants lining things up so he can tease how when polymorphed you still have the same hp, even if it makes no sense what so ever. Really now does it make sense for a dwarven barbarian to be able to take just as much punishment after being polymorphed into a mouse?

[Lawful_Stupid]

I don't see how V would've been able to Suggest the dragon anyway. If you look at it:

1) The dragon has a 1/20 chance of getting a 1, which is only 5% of a possibility. Not too high.

2) V would run out of Suggestions after a while. Rich has said that the Order of the Stick members are level 7 to 9, so V doesn't have an unlimited supply of spells.

3) Big dragon, little lizard. That's just saying that V's an snack for the dragon. C'mon, who seriously didn't see V getting eaten?!

[Hypersmurf]

Darkness is darkness, that's the intent, no matter how you read the words.

I think it's likely that the intention is that it does not brighten a pitch-black area (despite what it says).

But the intent is definitely not that the Darkness spell makes a bright area pitch black. It used to be; now it isn't. It makes a bright area shadowy, not dark.


And Ray is for feebling, it has no restorative effect what-so-ever. How would negative energy possible make you resistant to other negative energy?

Again, quite likely that's what was intended. I pointed it out specifically as an amusing quirk of the wording.

-Hyp.

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't see how V would've been able to Suggest the dragon anyway. If you look at it:

1) The dragon has a 1/20 chance of getting a 1, which is only 5% of a possibility. Not too high.

2) V would run out of Suggestions after a while. Rich has said that the Order of the Stick members are level 7 to 9, so V doesn't have an unlimited supply of spells.

It's a given fact that the Order is at least level 10 by now(Assuming they're all around the same level, V was level 9 to be able to freeze Elan in the Cone of Cold, and they have all levelled at least once since then, if I'm not mistaken). A 10th level wizard has 6/4/4/3/3/2 spell slots. Suggestion is a first level spell. Assuming V used up 1 slot on Feather Fall(Oddly, I thought FF should be "one casting per target", but whatever), that leaves us with 3/4/3/3/2. So V has 15 slots to fill with Suggestion. Then of course, V needs at least 15 Intelligence to cast 5th level spells. In fact, V has at least an 18 Intelligence(Strip 31) This provides an additional 1 slot per level per day for levels 1-4 spells. So another 4 more slots that could be filled with Suggestion. Oh, and the Ring of Wizardry adds some more spell slots, if memory serves.

With a flat 5% success rate(and only needing ONE success to win), the odds are pretty good in V's favour(were it not for the casting time and such)

Chance for Spell Resistance to beat V on the:

1rst Try: 19/20
2nd Try: 19/20*19/20(bear in mind, you don't need another roll once the suggestion takes hold, unless it's patently ridiculous, of course)
3rd Try: 19/20*19/20*19/20
.
.
.
20th Try: 19/2020(37589973457545958193355601/104857600000000000000000000)

The dragon has only a 35.8485922(etc.)% chance to beat all 20 castings, or a little over 1 in 3. In other words, V's chances of success after 20 attempts are only slightly better than tossing a coin once(1 in 2).

[bingo_bob]

Has anyone considered that Vaarsuvius will Hold Portal the dragons mouth so it's stuck open? ???

[Sneak]

Has anyone considered that Vaarsuvius will Hold Portal the dragons mouth so it's stuck open? ???

Um, yeah, in the Is This the End? (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1116415452 ) thread, that topic is being discussed.

[nightsong]

poor V...things just can't get much worse for him i guess...unless he ever wanted to study the digestive system of a dragon
hey, maybe being swallowed by a dragon might change him back into an elf :P (just kidding)

[Hypersmurf]

A 10th level wizard has 6/4/4/3/3/2 spell slots. Suggestion is a first level spell.

Suggestion's a 3rd level spell.

A Ring of Wizardy only doubles one level of spells. If we assume a Ring of Wizardry III, V gets 6 3rd level spells, 3 4th level spells, and 2 5th level spells. If we allow for a 20 Int, that's another three, for 14. If V is an enchanter or an elf generalist, that's three more, for 17.

14 Suggestion spells gives a 51%ish chance of a natural 1, which fits with V's statement that the odds are in favour of the dragon failing before the spells run out. (But only just.)

-Hyp.

[Janitor]

Great comic, but poor V. V's had it rough as a lizard, I think it's about time they change him back.

[RebelRogue]

I really love the way we see the dialogue between the dragon and V while it's assumed that the rest of the Order are busy battling the dragon (as demonstrated in the pic where Belkar is casually swept away by the dragon). Well, as someone noted before, talking is a free action, lol. The bit about studying other cultures was gold too.

And I'm sure V-man isn't dead. That just wouldn't make sense, storywise...

[Kish]

If we allow for a 20 Int,

Which we know Vaarvusius doesn't have because s/he claimed an 18 Int when facing the mind flayer. (And even if the Giant is actually keeping track of levels up, which I kinda doubt, Vaarsuvius has not gained nearly enough levels for two ability score boosts since then.)

If V is an enchanter or an elf generalist, that's three more, for 17.

Why would an elf generalist have bonus spells like a specialist wizard?

[Hypersmurf]

Which we know Vaarvusius doesn't have because s/he claimed an 18 Int when facing the mind flayer. (And even if the Giant is actually keeping track of levels up, which I kinda doubt, Vaarsuvius has not gained nearly enough levels for two ability score boosts since then.)

Allowing for the possibility of the circlet having been crafted into a Headband of Intellect +2 in the mean time :)


Why would an elf generalist have bonus spells like a specialist wizard?

Elf Wizard substitution levels from Races of the Wild :)

-Hyp.

[The Giant]

The Voice of Mod: OK, everyone, stop it.

There is a place for detailed rules-based analysis of the comic, and that place is not this thread. Bring discussions of Darkness, or the spell slots of 10th level wizards, or whatever rules quirk you notice in Friday's strip to THIS thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1105422121 ). The main OOTS thread is for general comments about the strip, the story, and so on, not for statistical dissection of the strip or the D&D rules.

[The Glyphstone]

Oooh...Ooh. what will happen to V? Will they find the starmetal? Wait till tomorrow.....

[Matuse]

Drizzt was created as a 2ed character.

Not to be overly pedantic, but Drizzt was created as a 1st edition character. The whole "Time of Troubles" corresponded with the introduction of the second edition. The shakeup of the gods was the sleight of hand used to explain why stuff in the FG books (the novels, that is) might suddenly start working differently to be in accordance with the new rules.

[Arian]

Good Lord, it's Matuse! :)

We don't see his flumphy form very often - as illustrated by the fact that he's only just over the boundary of Dwarfhood, after over a year of membership. Welcome out of lurkerdom, Matuse. :)

[Dedos]

Just thought I'd stop in & say hi! (First post & all that)

I love OotS, and thought #182 was gripping! I can't wait for the next one. ;D

[Sc00by]

I'm a nervous wreck - I can see tomorrow being a wasted day of near constant page refreshes...

[garand]

:)

Okay I can't hold it in any longer:

Wouldn't it be cool if Durkon, for some reason, tosses a Dispell Magic at the Dragon and, thereby, reverts V back to normal size while "indoors"?

[The Glyphstone]

So V would get dressed inside the dragon?

[The_King_of_Durf]

He doesn't have any spells that can change V back to normal, remember? Otherwise he already would've used them

[Lilly]

:o

I must say it's nice to be able to catch the comic before I go to bed on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday nights.

I also must say it's nice to have V back.


And for some odd reason I want a dragon, stuffed animal. But that's another topic entirely.


V's being awsome again, make him stop it!

[Wunderhund]

Awesome. Although there's gonna be a major argument about whether or not V.'s suggestion oversteps the bounds of the spell, the humor value makes it all better. And I love how she was able to work in her revenge against Belkar for strip 177 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=177) while she was at it. :)

Only question now is, what are they gonna do with the dragon? When the spell wears off, he's not going to be happy at all. I don't think that suggestion makes it any easier for them to kill it, and the spell will eventually wear off. On the other hand, he'll probably know where the starmetal is, so V. could just ask him to take them there.

Of course, the really interesting question is how V.'s frustration with the party will be resolved. Will everybody just have a good laugh after Belkar gets barfed on, and things will be back to normal? Or will there be some lingering issues? Damn but this strip is compelling.

[mastroyo]

Nice. What a great run of natural 20's or critics for the OOTS...
First, Haley shot the Dragon in the eye...
Second, the suggestion roll...

and last, but not least, Elan HIT the dragon...
or did I misunderstand 'gulp'...
and if I didn't he must have rolled a lot.. :D

Just great comic, I've love the series since they entered the cave...

[Aerysil1]

Belkar might want to duck. Unless the rules state that due to his size he is already in a constant state of duckness.

Does he have Evasion?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hailey hitting the dragon's eye is likely a sneak attack, hitting the vitals.

However, the dragon flubbing his will roll was indeed a stroke of luck.

[Nikolai_II]

and last, but not least, Elan HIT the dragon...
or did I misunderstand 'gulp'...
and if I didn't he must have rolled a lot.. :D


Gulp is a sound normally associated with swallowing, in this case the dragon swallowing Haley. *shocking* *revolting*

[Unien]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*breathes*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*snort*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"and aim for the halfling" ;D

Man, revenge in it's most weird and pure form ::)

[yrro]

Perhaps the DM decided that a critical failure on suggestion allows more leeway?

In any case, great comic. Once again, V saves the day!

[radishlaw]

Today's comic is great, but when I look "Suggestion"
spell up:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm

The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.


It is even more funny - vomitting on Belkar sounds VERY reasonable! ;D

[Gez]

Now, on to the hold portal episode... :)

In a way, V.'s current storyline reminds me of how a lot of old tales are built: the hero has an initiatic quest to do, with only a small number of items (often three, BTW) that he first deems useless, and then he finds himself in situations where each of the item proves key to solving a trouble.

[Janitor]

Great comic with a great end to the battle. Although it may not be entirely over, Haley's still in it's stomach, V is still a lizard, and the dragon will still quite alive and quite angry once suggestion wears off.

[PokeTheBard]

HEY! Spit out that lizard who may or may not be my friend!

Classic! Neither Haley or V can be eaten - who will supply the orb jokes!?


Ciao. ;)

[Falrin]

1 nasty acid vomit coming up.
and maybe some romantic scenes between Elan and the half-dead Haley.
great
as usual

[Kish]

Belkar might want to duck. Unless the rules state that due to his size he is already in a constant state of duckness.

Does he have Evasion?
Yeah, rangers do. This is a good candidate for my favorite issue. I hope Monday's is this good.

Hm. I wonder if the dragon can cast Dispel Magic.

[Eloco]

"aim for the halfling"

OMG that is awesome! ;D

[The Glyphstone]

Yeeeaaahh.......Varsuuvius! Great comic, as always.

[Sundog]

As I've noted before, never, ever P. off the Wizard! Their revenge is always, vicious, subtle and evil...

Vaarsuvius is clearly no exception!

YAY FOR V'S REVENGE!

[pumpkinetics]

Hmmm... so how does a dragon with no swallow whole ability manage to eat a creature two size categories (approx) below it?

The answer: 42!!![/post with idiotic ending]

[Shatteredtower]

Hmmm... so how does a dragon with no swallow whole ability manage to eat a creature two size categories (approx) below it?

Giant contracted Sid and Marty Kroft to make this one special for him? I mean, if Mr. Munchie could devour Billy Barty regularly...

So many wrong lines come to mind from today's strip, but I'll restrain myself. Really.

On the subject of whether or not Belkar has evasion, well, maybe. If he's got 9 ranger levels, it's possible, so long as the DM didn't decide to house rule the class and leave him in 3.0 for all save weapon rules. After all, can you think of a better reason for his player to run him with such a large attitude problem? ;)

[Sneak]

AWESOME comic, the part where V said "aim for the halfling" made me laugh out loud. And now the real question...*GASP!*....will Haley be alive or dead when she's spit out? Or can the dragon even spit her out?

[The_King_of_Durf]

Hooray, V's alive. I'm pretty sure Haley will live, but I don't think the dragon will be able to vomit her out. Maybe they'll cut her out of its stomach

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I doubt the dragon can dispell magic the polymorph spell, but the dragon can certainly translate for V.

[Binarius]

"aim for the halfling"

OMG that is awesome! ;D


And the fun thing is the halfling never will knew it was on purpose (in character)... great just great once more. I wonder when the hidden evil npc will come back and what plans has the amulet in petto?

[RBPRX1204]

Bravo! V strikes back. Love the vomit joke, too. Can't get enough of those. Honestly, great comic. Instant classic.

[Brother_Hood]

The cat thinks I've lost my mind, I laughed so much. :)

"and aim for the halfling."

*snicker*

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

great! TOTALLY GREAT! Belkar has deserved that! Thanks, Rich, for saving my favorite elf!

The ppl at our school canteen have looked really strange when I began to laugh tears and roll around on the floor... :D

[Nighthawk4]

Nooooooooooo :o

Poor Haley.

Great comic. V is proving to be a really entertaining Lizard :D

Even better - Belkar is about to get his just reward - does he have any special resistance to dragon vomit?

[GypsyThorn]

Belkar is about to get his just reward - does he have any special resistance to dragon vomit?

Failing that, does he have a spoon?

[UnHoly_Ram]

Today's comic is great, but when I look "Suggestion"
spell up:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm

It is even more funny - vomitting on Belkar sounds VERY reasonable! ;D


Also it means that after the vomitting the Spell will be ended according to the SRD. Chances for a second Critical Failure by the dragon normally I'd say is bad, but as we all know sometimes those 1's come in bunches.

[PicassoCat]

"And aim for the halfling."

<evil chuckle> V is getting in touch with her inner Psycho, I see.

At least my copy of the book came in yesterday's mail. I have that to hold me till Monday. (And it's supposed to be a friend's birthday present. Guess I'll have to order another one!)

[Matuse]

Good Lord, it's Matuse!

Pfft. You've been pretty absent from r.g.frp.dnd yourself, Arian.


1 nasty acid vomit coming up.

Acid? I was thinking negative energy. That sure seems more like a shadow dragon than a black dragon to me. Black dragon breath is a line, and that sure looks like a cone. Plus, I wouldn't imagine a line of acid to be translucent. Lastly, the darkness sphere they get into just before the fight was clearly summoned on top of them, and not something they just walked into. While a black dragon could learn the spell, it is innate to shadow dragons.


Also it means that after the vomitting the Spell will be ended according to the SRD.

Ah, but the vomiting was not the magical suggestion, the suggestion was that the dragon obey all of V's orders. The vomiting just happened to be the first such order.

[neoliyang]

haha very funny quotes

[Musrum]

Also it means that after the vomitting the Spell will be ended according to the SRD. Chances for a second Critical Failure by the dragon normally I'd say is bad, but as we all know sometimes those 1's come in bunches.

Well because the DM has allowed V's open-ended suggestion: "I suggest you perform no actions except those which I explicitly order of you" the vomiting is an order, not the Suggestion and so the spell remains until the duration expires.

Of course since V may still have Suggestions remaining she/he could get the Dragon to lower spell resistance and accept a re-application of the spell. So for the cost three 3rd level spells per day, the party now has a pet Dragon.

Of course no DM would allow this, and would probably end up punishing V for being too clever. ::)

[Ohtar_Turinson]

Lastly, the darkness sphere they get into just before the fight was clearly summoned on top of them, and not something they just walked into. While a black dragon could learn the spell, it is innate to shadow dragons.

Err... as per page 71 of the MMI, a black dragon Juvenile or older can cast darkness 3/day.

And I suspect that that cone is in fact acid- Darkness isn't green or translucent and it definitely doesn't have bubbles in it, so I think this is just an artist's impression of acid- it would be hard to do the "line" effect with the strip's style I think.

[Adghar]

Is there any reason that V's suggestion spell magic, upon success, wildly flailed around surging with power and almost covering the dragon's face?

Methinks this is like "friendship" morals commonly found in kid's (American?) anime.

protection from tomatoes and related missiles

[The Giant]

It's a black dragon.

1.) Acid breath.
2.) Lives in a marshy area in a water-filled cave.
3.) Casts Darkness as a SLA
4.) Speaks with reptiles. While officially, only Great Wyrm black dragons can do this, I'd bet that NO shadow dragons can.
5.) I don't actually even know what a "shadow dragon" is, technically. It's not in any of my Monster Manuals. Is it an old 2e monster?

[sktarq]

I think you find Shadow Dragon has been updated in the Monsters of Ferun.

Also I don't think Haley will be disappointed with the treasure that the "Giant Kings" were supposed to have. So Roy gets out of that one.

[puppygirl61]

WOW! I didn't know that shadow dragons can do all of that!

[Matuse]

1.) Acid breath.

Which is neither a line, nor, IMO, looks especially like acid. It doesn't visibly hit anything that turns to slag or anything to give a clue as to what it is doing. The only person seen hit with it is Roy, who looks more pained than melted, which would be more appropriate to the effects of shadow dragon breath, which is level/hitpoint drain.


4.) Speaks with reptiles. While officially, only Great Wyrm black dragons can do this, I'd bet that NO shadow dragons can.

NPCs get bonus languages for high intelligence too :)


5.) I don't actually even know what a "shadow dragon" is, technically. It's not in any of my Monster Manuals. Is it an old 2e monster?

Older than that, actually. My 1E MMII has it.

"Shadow dragons appear as wormlike dragons of lighter and darker shadows. The bat-like wings are semitransparent, as is most of the body. If someone is trying to spot a shadow dragon, the eyes, pools of feral gray opalesence, are the easiest to detect".

3E Black Dragons also have forward facing horns similar to elephant tusks rather than pointy bits on the top of their head. The strip dragon also seemd *too* black to be a black, having no coloration variation at all.

[The Giant]

Are you actually arguing with me about my own strip?? It's a freaking black dragon. End of discussion. ::)

[PokeTheBard]

Lol, he has the "I am the author, sit down and shut up" special rule in which he can make a black dragon have flourescent yellow dots if he pleases...

After all, a true Black Dragon is copyrighted, one with slightly different abilities allows for its usage in OotS... ::)


Ciao!

[Yuki Akuma]

Lol, he has the "I am the author, sit down and shut up" special rule in which he can make a black dragon have flourescent yellow dots if he pleases...

After all, a true Black Dragon is copyrighted, one with slightly different abilities allows for its usage in OotS... ::)


Ciao!

The black dragon isn't copyrighted... It's in the SRD! Only monsters not in the SRD are copyrighted (such as Beholders and Illithids).

[Sc00by]

Ok I've finally stopped laughing enough to post. Absolutely great strip! A classic from panel 1to the end. Great work Rich - keep it up ;)

And Matuse; arguing with the author... lol Of all the fruitless tasks.

Just rememebr that the OotS are all stick figures, there a limit to how much detail you can get on characters.

[The Glyphstone]

the names....speak not the names!!! Or you shall call down the wrath of the LAWYERS upon thee! ;D

[Gez]

5.) I don't actually even know what a "shadow dragon" is, technically. It's not in any of my Monster Manuals. Is it an old 2e monster?

Older indeed. In 3e form, they're found in the Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn, and in the Draconomicon. Simply put, they are dragons from the plane of shadow, and their breath weapon is negative energy (level drains, ouch!).

Here is Lockwood's rendition of one. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG43.jpg) The illustration is rather faithful, but their scales are supposed to be shadowy as well (like the wings), letting one dimly discern the amorphous blackness of its inner organs.

Compared to the Black Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG71.jpg) and to the Deep Dragon (which nobody mentionned, also in MC:MoF) (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG41.jpg), you have three black-colored evil dragons that could leave in a pit.

But only black dragons have those distinctive white horns, even if yours do not curve toward the front of the beast. (Which must cause the "normal" black dragons some problems when grabbing things to eat, like getting its horns stuck in the mud.)


The black dragon isn't copyrighted... It's in the SRD! Only monsters not in the SRD are copyrighted (such as Beholders and Illithids).

You're confusing copyright and intellectual property. Just because it's open content doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted, the SRD just lets you use this copyrighted material, without signing an agreement or paying licensing fees, through the OGL.

[Arian]

Pfft. You've been pretty absent from r.g.frp.dnd yourself, Arian.

True indeed. So it's clearly incumbent upon you to sound as delighted the next time you spot me there as I did to spot you here.

[Sendar]

*sigh*

1) It's a BLACK dragon.

a) It's -black-

b) It casts darkness, and shadow dragons aren't core rules.

c) Thus says the author, thus says the DM, thus it was, is and ever shall be, until a revision.

2) It's juvenille age.

a) it can cast darkness

b) it doesn't automatically dragon-fear the party

c) the dragon doesn't mention Spell Resistance and neither does V

3) Can a Medium size dragon swallow a Medium size rogue?

a) Who said, despite it's age, that OOTS juvenille dragons are medium sized?

b) The dragon DID swallow Haley. We all saw it.

4) Did the dragon crit fail his roll and will soon break free? NO. Anyone besides me see the purple sparkles around V as he cast? V peeved off = V -extremely- powerful casts

[Aerysil1]

I'm trying to remember where I first saw a shadow dragon as a DM... if I can remember, I'll post.

I just looked for it in the 1st ed. Monster Manual 2, but I suddenly realized, I don't have it! It's gone! Doh!

1st edition had the habit of introducing new creatures in modules and then compiling them together in later hardbound texts. Many new creatures were introduced in S4: Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, most of which were detailed later in the MM2.

Sorry, off-topic.

[puppygirl61]

really off topic

[Sundog]

Utterly.

So, how long do you think it'll take for Elan to realise he's NOT dreaming..?

[evileeyore]

4) Did the dragon crit fail his roll and will soon break free? NO. Anyone besides me see the purple sparkles around V as he cast? V peeved off = V -extremely- powerful casts



I agree. I've kinda wondered if maybe V isn't maybe a variant Wild Caster similiar to Wilders in Psionics. They pretty much cast normally but can summon up vast power by tapping their emotions. Wilders (psionic) however have a potential for catastrophic overload or failure.

Hmmm, Wilder mages, I'll have to look into this line...

[puppygirl61]

Forever. It's gonna take forever for Elan to reliaze he's not dreaming

[Gez]

*sigh*

1) It's a BLACK dragon.

Yeah, we know. The discussion over that aspect was over.


b) The dragon DID swallow Haley. We all saw it.

While core dragons do not have Swallow Whole as a racial ability, they can take a feat to get this attack, so it's not that much of a surprise.

(And that dragon is definitely larger than Medium. He looks more like a Huge.)

[Shatteredtower]

Hmm... acid-breathing, charcoal-colored dragons and gastric reflux problems... not a good mix. Yeah, I know the dragon doesn't have a gastric reflux problem yet, but this sort of thing won't help much. Then again, if the dragon considers this sort of advice reasonable, I'd have to wonder if it has an eating disorder of some sort. That might explain how it's stayed so... trim.

And if you were in Haley's shoes -- I mean, boots -- and survived this encounter, would you max out your ranks in Escape Artist next time you level up?

[nightsong]

classic, intense emotion sparking extrordinary actions. Go V!
from looking at the past comics i think we still have one more spell to wait before V will be an elf again.
he's used feather fall to save the party, he just used suggestion, so there's only hold portal left (if this goes according to classic storytelling)

[Dragon_Rider]

Ahh yes, classsic story telling. All stories MUST have a dragon who vomits a rogue onto an annoying halfling at the command of a lizard wizard or they just wouldnt be considered classic

[puppygirl61]

Very classic

[garand]

Brings memories of required reading in High School to my mind ... like ... To Puke a Mocking Bard and A Tale of Spewed Thugies

Aim at the halfling


Beautiful ... just beautiful.

Revenge is a dish best served with explosive projectile vomit.