Evil Clerics hiding in plain sight?

[Scalenex]

Evil clerics masquerading as good clerics (or good commoners or what have you) is thematically appropriate for a game with intrigue and mystery and all that. Most cleric spells require using a divine focus, but that would be a dead giveaway.

How does one get around this? This applies the same to any underground cult, not just evil ones.

[RandomFellow]

Evil clerics masquerading as good clerics (or good commoners or what have you) is thematically appropriate for a game with intrigue and mystery and all that. Most cleric spells require using a divine focus, but that would be a dead giveaway.

How does one get around this? This applies the same to any underground cult, not just evil ones.

- Disguise Check to make your unholy symbol look like a holy symbol (or anything else).
- Permanent Image on the unholy symbol so it looks like a holy symbol (or anything else).

[Riffington]

Disguise your divine focus.

Perhaps your starry night Mystra motif subtly incorporates the Unblinking Eye of He Who Waits... Or if someone were to break open your Holy Tree symbol they'd see inside it the true symbol: a bloody scroll dedicated to the Betrayer.

Or perhaps your divine focus is inscribed on the pommel of your sword, or the strap of your shield - as you say, you need not be masquerading as a cleric at all.

[Zenos]

Just inscribe the unholy symbol on the inside of your cloak, and when you cast a spell you just flick the cloak to present the symbol to the target.

[Craig1f]

Masquerade yourself as a very low-level cleric, so if the time ever comes where you need to perform a Turn Undead, and can't since you're evil and must Rebuke, people will just assume that your Turn attempt failed.

Look up the Deity Mask from Forgotten Realms. He seems to have to the same theme that you're going for.

Also, be sure to memorize Cure spells of each level, since you're expected to be able to spontaneously cast it at each level. Or, take the alternate class feature where, instead of being able to spontaneously class cure spells, you're able to spontaneously cast domain spells. If you can find an Evil Deity that has a Domain that isn't clearly evil (like war or strength), then it won't be suspicious that you can't spontaneously cast cure spells.

Edit: Mask would have NO problem with you disguising your holy symbol to look like another Deity's holy symbol, since that's his whole "thing". So you would have no problems with the holy symbol not working if you made it look like that of another Deity, and you wouldn't have to carry around a concealed holy symbol.

[Funkyodor]

Take a cue from a stage magician. Sleight of Hand check to distract people with a fake holy symbol, while your other hand uses the real holy symbol behind the back, or under your robes, etc. Heh, heh, or you can take a cue from Napolean and always keep a hand in your shirt.

[Talic]

The holy symbol doesn't have the power. The god does. Do you think an evil god of deception, lies, and assassins would grant a spell to one of his followers who prooffers a good symbol as the focus?

I know Shar in Forgotten Realms does so all the time for followers of Ibrundil. Heck, the god's dead and nobody knows it! Such is the tricky tricky nature of evil. It rewards liars.

[Blue_C.]

Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) is a must, as well. Without it or a similar spell that hides alignment (and for the life of me I cannot remember another, but I'm sure there's one or another floating around), the first time someone cast detect evil the disguised cleric would light up like a Christmas tree.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) is a must, as well. Without it or a similar spell that hides alignment (and for the life of me I cannot remember another, but I'm sure there's one or another floating around), the first time someone cast detect evil the disguised cleric would light up like a Christmas tree.

that is why all my characters have quickdraw: lead sheet...works every time :smallbiggrin:

[The_Snark]

Happily for clerics of this vein, Undetectable Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/undetectableAlignment.htm) is a mere 2nd-level spell.

Vecna works well for this sort of cleric also, if you're not in Forgotten Realms.

[The Professor]

I'm infamous in my group for how many Rings of Mindshielding there are.

If they're evil, and plot centric, they WILL have one of 'em. I suggest using them with wild abandon until you have your group so paranoid about them, they buy Scrolls of Disjunction and nail every seemingly important NPC with them.

[Kioran]

I´m currrently considering dropping my LG Warmage in my SCAP group in favor of the evil Half-sister, a NE Cloistered Cleric of Vecna - mainly because our group lacks any kind of skillmonkey since the rogues player dropped out and our first cloistered cleric was exchanged for a Barbarian because the player tired of him (after 0.5 sessions :smallfurious: ).
So I´m thinking about the logistics of this as well. Can one use the deities favored weapon as holy symbol?

[Xuincherguixe]

That Cleric better become in charge of Vecna's religion for the obvious jokes.

[Chronos]

I ran an adventure once where the BBEG was an evil cleric masquerading as a good cleric. Or, more precisely, he was a formerly-good cleric who was corrupted by dark forces. He and the other clerics who were converted with him were granted special glamered (un)holy symbols by the demon who corrupted them: To casual inspection, they looked like an Eagle of Manwë (we were using a Tolkien pantheon), but close examination (of a sort that wouldn't be possible while they were wearing them) would reveal a stylized carving of a demon's head. The ones granted to the top two priests also had the additional ability of calling that demon 1/week.

[Narmoth]

the easiest would be to create a deity with both good and evil aspects. Like a deity of life and death.
Then priests of the death aspect could masquerade between the good priests of their own church. I would allow them to both control and turn undead, as it's not a big increase in power, and works well for a corrupted clergy of basically the same power.

[SoD]

Not exactly on topic, but it could help, but I once had an evil cleric who was maskurading as a good cleric. LE disguised as LG. Heh, even the other players didn't know. We didn't have a paladin, or anyone with detect evil. Only myself and the DM knew. We'd taken the holy symbol inside a holy symbol trick, and as for spontaneous casting? Each morning I'd prepare mainly healing spells. Someone gets hurt and I say ''Ooh, I think I'll sacrifice my summon monster VI to heal you.'' or what ever spell. They were so suprised when they found out I was with the organisation they were trying to overthrow, but they didn't find out until I'd lead them into a huge trap.

[Craig1f]

Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) is a must, as well. Without it or a similar spell that hides alignment (and for the life of me I cannot remember another, but I'm sure there's one or another floating around), the first time someone cast detect evil the disguised cleric would light up like a Christmas tree.

Misdirection would be a better choice, so you actually show up as "good". You would need to carry a focus though, that is properly aligned. I'm not really sure how to go about doing this.

[SoD]

Have one where, if cracked open, would contain a small unholy symbol.

[Curmudgeon]

Just inscribe the unholy symbol on the inside of your cloak, and when you cast a spell you just flick the cloak to present the symbol to the target. You're making a common error, Zenos. A Cleric only needs to present their holy symbol when turning undead. They need to manipulate it when casting a spell. So a symbol that always stays inside your spell component pouch is perfectly fine for casting spells; just reach in there (which you need to do for any spell with a material component anyway), and touch the symbol.

[Cruiser1]

I'm infamous in my group for how many Rings of Mindshielding there are.
I suggest using them with wild abandon until you have your group so paranoid about them, they buy Scrolls of Disjunction and nail every seemingly important NPC with them.
A better counter (that won't anger the NPC as much) is to cast chain Dispell Magic on them and all their gear to temporarily disable it for 1d4 rounds. Cast Detect Magic to see whether you made your dispell checks, and if not Dispell Magic again. Once they temporarily no longer have a magic aura, cast your Detect Evil then.

[lord_khaine]

i still think the best way to hide an evil cleric in plain sight is to give him a level shadowdancer.



....what?

[Chronos]

i still think the best way to hide an evil cleric in plain sight is to give him a level shadowdancer.Nah, the Dark template is better, especially since a cleric is going to have a hard time meeting the Shadowdancer prereqs.

[marjan]

A better counter (that won't anger the NPC as much) is to cast chain Dispell Magic on them and all their gear to temporarily disable it for 1d4 rounds. Cast Detect Magic to see whether you made your dispell checks, and if not Dispell Magic again. Once they temporarily no longer have a magic aura, cast your Detect Evil then.

That won't work if he has ongoing spell effects.

And it will anger casters. You just disabled his/hers casting stat boosting item and he lost a prepared spell/slot. Better run as fast as you can.

[Parvum]

Can one use the deities favored weapon as holy symbol?

Yes, but they lose the Turn/Rebuke Undead ability.

For this build, not really important.

(A friend took this with his cleric, but later realized that any blunt object could be used, and he had a mace as the weapon. Ah, well.)