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View Full Version : Thoughts on Sneak Attack spells



Chronos
2008-01-15, 10:18 PM
When building a rogue with UMD, it's common wisdom to pick up a few wands of weaponlike spells (such as Ray of Frost or Acid Splash), to make sneak attacks as touch attacks, when needed. One common choice in this regard is Flame Blade, since it lets you make multiple attacks per round (if BAB is high enough). But I was thinking about some other options, which seem like they might be better.

First, there's Chill Touch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillTouch.htm). On the minus side, it only gives you one attack per caster level, as opposed to the minute/level from Flame Blade. But on the flip side, it's a first level spell, which makes a wand of it cheaper. For the same price as a wand of Flame Blade, you could get a CL 6 wand of Chill Touch, enough for two or three rounds of full attacks. Hopefully, six Sneak Attacks would be enough to finish an encounter, and a flame blade doesn't last long enough that a single casting is likely to be good for two encounters. Plus, it does damage of a type which fewer things are resistant or immune to: Undead of course are immune, but you probably can't sneak attack them anyway. And there's the chance of also doing some strength damage with each attack.

Second, there's Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm). Like Chill Touch, it's a first-level spell that gives you one attack per caster level. You can't hold the charge with it like you can with Chill Touch, and it does the oft-resisted fire type of damage, but on the other hand, you can make ranged attacks with it (good both for staying out of melee range, and for using Dex instead of Str on the attack roll).

Are there any other pros or cons I've overlooked? Overall, is Flame Blade worthwhile, or should a rogue just stock up on one or both of the other two?

Trouvere
2008-01-15, 10:48 PM
First, there's Chill Touch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillTouch.htm)... Undead of course are immune, but you probably can't sneak attack them anyway.They don't take damage, but they do "flee as if panicked" (for 7-10 rounds with a CL 6 Chill Touch), if they fail a Will save. That could be useful enough, to take off some pressure, or if they can be cornered so they cower. But it's a pity the spell as cast from a wand will only have the minimum DC of 11.

marjan
2008-01-15, 10:54 PM
They don't take damage, but they do "flee as if panicked" (for 7-10 rounds with a CL 6 Chill Touch), if they fail a Will save. That could be useful enough, to take off some pressure, or if they can be cornered so they cower. But it's a pity the spell as cast from a wand will only have the minimum DC of 11.

Nope. They get 1 str dmg if they fail save.

I would go with Chill Touch for melee and Acid Splash or Lesser Orb Of X for ranged. Ranged sneak attacks are harder to get.

Trouvere
2008-01-16, 04:27 AM
Nope. They get 1 str dmg if they fail save.Nonsense. The spell description was linked, you know. "An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort [that is, neither 1d6 negative energy damage nor 1 point of Str damage], but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level."

Fixer
2008-01-16, 07:20 AM
Using Incarnum feats, I had my 1st level rogue take the Shape Soulmeld (Acidic Spittle) feat. This allows her a 1/round, 30' ranged touch attack dealing 1d6 damage. It provokes an attack of opportunity, but so does spell use or any other form of ranged attack.

Something to consider. There are other soulmelds that grant at-will touch attacks using lightning particularly.

The White Knight
2008-01-16, 09:00 AM
If you're playing Forgotten Realms, Moon Blade (FRCS page... 71ish?) seems like it'd be pretty good for delivering your sneak attacks. Str bonus won't apply, but it has its own bonus damage based on caster level to replace it (and has the added utility of disrupting spellcasters from being able to cast next round!). Also 1 min/level, as Flame Blade.

Chronos
2008-01-16, 01:00 PM
Hm, I was thinking more core spells, but yes, there are certainly other good Sneak Attack options in other books. I believe there's also something that lets you throw multiple snowballs, and something involving a bunch of knives?

Any more comment on Flame Blade versus the others I mentioned?

MCerberus
2008-01-16, 01:13 PM
Flame blade needs a proficiency Rogue's don't have (Scimitar). You'd be getting a -4 on the attacks... not something you want if you're using touch attacks to hit more often.

So you'll have to multiclass or blow a feat in order to effectively use that spell.

Telonius
2008-01-16, 01:19 PM
Casting "Chill Touch" from a wand - how would that work? It's a spell trigger, so casting it is a standard action. How would you resolve the touch attacks after that? Are both touch attacks presumed within that standard action? Just one? :smallconfused:

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-01-16, 01:44 PM
Casting "Chill Touch" from a wand - how would that work? It's a spell trigger, so casting it is a standard action. How would you resolve the touch attacks after that? Are both touch attacks presumed within that standard action? Just one? :smallconfused:

You get one free touch attack as part of the casting. You can make iterative attacks in subsequent rounds.

Chronos
2008-01-16, 02:12 PM
You could also cast it far in advance, and hold the charge on it indefinitely (so long as you don't need to do anything else with that hand). If you're dictating the terms on which you're entering combat (which you likely are, as a rogue looking to get Sneak Attacks), you probably won't have to spend any precious combat time on the casting itself.

MCerberus, good point on the proficiency. I think that's the nail in the coffin against Flame Blade. Since you mention proficiency, it also occurs to me that Produce Flame and similar spells might be eligible for a halfling's bonus with thrown weapons (since it specifically says that you throw the flames).