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View Full Version : Combat Focus, hot or not?



wadledo
2008-01-15, 11:10 PM
Perusing through PH2, I was wondering whether or not the Combat Focus feat tree was any good?

Aside from Fighter/Clerics, I honestly can't see the point of it(aside from vigor).

Anyone willing to explain why I should use these/change my mind?

zaei
2008-01-15, 11:40 PM
I've always thought they were pretty fun and flavorful. Maybe not the most powerful of feats, but they give some pretty handy and nifty bonuses. I like Combat Awareness and Combat Vigor for Blindsense 5', and Fast Healing 4. Combat Defense can also be handy for some feats that require you to be Dodging a particular enemy to trigger (Elusive Target is a great example).

Jack Zander
2008-01-15, 11:48 PM
Woah. Stop. Go back.

Are you telling me that the PHBII has a feat that allows you to have fast healing 4?

Thank you for finalizing my decision to never buy the PHBII. Ever.

FinalJustice
2008-01-16, 12:03 AM
For some rounds, in a combat situation, not always and forever active.

Nebo_
2008-01-16, 12:04 AM
Woah. Stop. Go back.

Are you telling me that the PHBII has a feat that allows you to have fast healing 4?

Thank you for finalizing my decision to never buy the PHBII. Ever.

Wow, talk about uneducated decisions.

Now if you'd bothered to find out what the feat actually does, you wouldn't be quite so horrified. It gives you fast healing based on how many combat focus feats you have, starting at two. The earliest you can get this feat is at level 9 and it only works while you are focused, which only happens while you're in combat.

PHBII is a great book. It would be very closed minded to not get it based on false balance problem.

Lord Tataraus
2008-01-16, 12:13 AM
Woah. Stop. Go back.

Are you telling me that the PHBII has a feat that allows you to have fast healing 4?

Thank you for finalizing my decision to never buy the PHBII. Ever.

Don't jump to conclusions. PHBII is one of the best supplements out their the feat in question gives you FH4 for about 13 rounds while in combat after you've made a successful attack. That requires 4 feats. With the minimum of 2 feats, you get FH2 for 11 rounds under the same conditions. The maximum number of rounds is 15 and you need to at least a +9 BAB to even get any Fast Healing and +15 to get maximum number of rounds (and 8 feats). That said, I like the feats. The FH is not even close to broken since all it does is allow for less money or spell slots spent to keep the meat shield alive and 60hp at 15th level is not that much at the slow rate you get it, especially for a front liner. Though the other feats are not as good as Awareness and Vigor.

zaei
2008-01-16, 12:19 AM
Woah. Stop. Go back.

Are you telling me that the PHBII has a feat that allows you to have fast healing 4?

Thank you for finalizing my decision to never buy the PHBII. Ever.

You must not have heard about the feat that lets you full attack while in a grapple without making grapple checks or taking penalties, with any weapon, as well as allowing you to take 10 on attacks, giving AC bonuses, and giving you a +5 bonus to one attack per round after the first.

The_Snark
2008-01-16, 12:32 AM
You must not have heard about the feat that lets you full attack while in a grapple without making grapple checks or taking penalties, with any weapon, as well as allowing you to take 10 on attacks, giving AC bonuses, and giving you a +5 bonus to one attack per round after the first.

Are you trying to imply the feat is overpowered...? Because it's only available to 18th-level fighters. By that level, the clerics can summon divine wrath to shatter armies, the arcanists can stop time or mentally dominate a tarrasque, and the rogue is a master thief, uncatchable by anything short of another master thief (or talented mage). The fighter had better be able to fight well, because he's fighting fifty-foot dragons and armies of orcs.

zaei
2008-01-16, 12:34 AM
Are you trying to imply the feat is overpowered...? Because it's only available to 18th-level fighters. By that level, the clerics can summon divine wrath to shatter armies, the arcanists can stop time or mentally dominate a tarrasque, and the rogue is a master thief, uncatchable by anything short of another master thief (or talented mage). The fighter had better be able to fight well, because he's fighting fifty-foot dragons and armies of orcs.

Sarcasm :smalleek:

Nerd-o-rama
2008-01-16, 12:35 AM
I think zaei was being sarcastic, and showing how a lot of things can sound broken if you have incomplete information.

Yes, that feat requires Fighter Level 18, which is why it can be so ridiculous and still be pretty balanced. Well, between classes. There's no reason a Fighter 18 wouldn't take it, but there's still plenty of reasons not to be a Fighter 18.

And zaei explains it all, in ninja form.

Draz74
2008-01-16, 12:57 AM
Yes, that feat requires Fighter Level 18, which is why it can be so ridiculous and still be pretty balanced. Well, between classes. There's no reason a Fighter 18 wouldn't take it, but there's still plenty of reasons not to be a Fighter 18.

On the contrary, there's a very good reason why a Fighter 18 still wouldn't take this great feat (and why I haven't seen it in very many builds). Namely, because he doesn't want to waste 5 feats on lame-to-semi-lame prerequisites.

Townopolis
2008-01-16, 01:29 AM
Anyways, back to the main point. How does combat focus stack up in your experience? What about for a ranger, paladin, or swordsage, classes that benefit from a decent wisdom due to spellcasting or class abilities and fight in the front lines at the same time?

Kristoss
2008-01-16, 01:45 AM
As a tangent thought could a barbarian reasonably use combat focus while in rage?

FujinAkari
2008-01-16, 01:53 AM
Woah. Stop. Go back.

Are you telling me that the PHBII has a feat that allows you to have fast healing 4?

Thank you for finalizing my decision to never buy the PHBII. Ever.

Just going to chime in with the crowd here... this is one of the saddest and most pathetic statements I have seen. It basically accounts to an acceptance and even embrace of ignorance, not only do you not WANT to learn more about a book you've never bothered to read, but you seem to congratulate yourself for the decision never to learn whether or not your (over)reaction was justified.

Willful ignorance is NEVER an admirable trait.

As a postnote, I am calling your position sad and pathetic, not you. I don't know you, and will assume that this is not iconic to how you are as a person.

The_Snark
2008-01-16, 01:57 AM
Sarcasm :smalleek:

Ah. Yes. Shot over me, I guess. I must be more tired than I thought... :smallredface:

Anyway... I rather like the Combat Focus line. Even the base feat is decent, since Will saves are an area many melee characters could stand to gain in. The Vigor feat is pretty good, as are the Stability and Awareness feats.

They're not the most powerful feats ever, but they're fun and not too underpowered.

Rockphed
2008-01-16, 03:24 AM
On the contrary, there's a very good reason why a Fighter 18 still wouldn't take this great feat (and why I haven't seen it in very many builds). Namely, because he doesn't want to waste 5 feats on lame-to-semi-lame prerequisites.

Fighters have feats to burn, which is probably why Fighter is often maligned and ridiculed.

McMindflayer
2008-01-16, 03:55 AM
Okay, I'm flipping through the PHB2 as well.. I don't see any of thsee feats you are all talking about. Where are they?

Nebo_
2008-01-16, 05:04 AM
After the normal feats, in a section of their own. Page 86

Hagentai
2008-01-16, 06:26 AM
You must not have heard about the feat that lets you full attack while in a grapple without making grapple checks or taking penalties, with any weapon, as well as allowing you to take 10 on attacks, giving AC bonuses, and giving you a +5 bonus to one attack per round after the first.

Oh my God.. a fighter gets a feat some where down the line (damn near at Epic) that finally gives him some teeth. I beleive you have to be a 18 level fighter no and take a long tree of feets to get to this.

Heaven forbid a fighter get to do anything while the mage is making wishes, stoping time, throwing meteors, etc,etc.

I love how people whine about the fighter being weak than cry when ever he gets a helping hand.

Overlard
2008-01-16, 06:41 AM
Oh my God.. a fighter gets a feat some where down the line (damn near at Epic) that finally gives him some teeth. I beleive you have to be a 18 level fighter no and take a long tree of feets to get to this.

Heaven forbid a fighter get to do anything while the mage is making wishes, stoping time, throwing meteors, etc,etc.

I love how people whine about the fighter being weak than cry when ever he gets a helping hand.
Read on, MacDuff...

KIDS
2008-01-16, 07:48 AM
Eeeeh, Jack_Zander, your snide remark has rolled a natural 1. Really.

Anyways, Combat Focus and its related feats are a nice chain, they're solid and fun; they provide good benefit without broken stacking or anything like that. A lot of my characters have them.

Saph
2008-01-16, 08:30 AM
They're nice feats. I've always wanted to try them.

Unfortunately, they pretty much require you to play a Fighter (or take a couple of fighter levels, at least), and I don't want to try them that badly. :P

- Saph

Person_Man
2008-01-16, 09:44 AM
Combat Focus + Combat Vigor + Combat Stability
Available by level 9 for a full BAB class.
Once you successfully hit someone in combat, you get +4 Will Save, Fast Healing 4, and +8 to resist any bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip attempts made against you. The effect lasts for 12 rounds.

Pretty solid combo for pretty much any tank build. It's especially good if you're a Trip or Grapple build.

daggaz
2008-01-16, 10:21 AM
Yeah... with all that other stuff stacked up on it, it seems ok, I suppose, if you are going full fighter.. But even then, at 18th lvl, fast healing 4 isnt anything to brag about. Its not even close to enough to heal up one good shot at that level, let alone all the other hits you will probably be taking at some point in your life on the front lines.

I would probably take the feats up to the point of +8 vs combat moves, and concentrate otherwise on combat control, utility, movement, etc..

goken04
2008-01-16, 01:26 PM
They're nice feats. I've always wanted to try them.

Unfortunately, they pretty much require you to play a Fighter (or take a couple of fighter levels, at least), and I don't want to try them that badly. :P

- Saph

My feelings precisely.

AslanCross
2008-01-16, 05:37 PM
As a tangent thought could a barbarian reasonably use combat focus while in rage?

I'd say no. Even though Combat Focus is not really the same as Concentration, I'd still say it's a mental action (it is Wis-based, after all).

Talya
2008-01-16, 05:47 PM
They're nice feats. I've always wanted to try them.

Unfortunately, they pretty much require you to play a Fighter (or take a couple of fighter levels, at least), and I don't want to try them that badly. :P

- Saph

Well, you could mix in Swashbuckler with Daring Warrior, or even better, Warblade, and still qualify.

(actually, with the intelligence synergy, 3 levels of swashbuckler AND levels of warblade might be nice.)

marjan
2008-01-16, 05:53 PM
Well, you could mix in Swashbuckler with Daring Warrior, or even better, Warblade, and still qualify.

(actually, with the intelligence synergy, 3 levels of swashbuckler AND levels of warblade might be nice.)

Problem is number of feats non-fighters get, not requirements (though some require other feats). Psychic Warrior would be better for picking up those feats.

Talya
2008-01-16, 06:03 PM
Problem is number of feats non-fighters get, not requirements (though some require other feats). Psychic Warrior would be better for picking up those feats.


I actually never look at psionic classes...i hate psionics. But i don't doubt it could be effective. Note, however, that in the above example, you still end up taking a fair number of fighter levels. ;)

(I know, I know. "figher level 3 dumb.")

Saph
2008-01-16, 06:36 PM
Well, you could mix in Swashbuckler with Daring Warrior, or even better, Warblade, and still qualify.

(actually, with the intelligence synergy, 3 levels of swashbuckler AND levels of warblade might be nice.)

I know, and it wouldn't be bad or anything . . . it's just that if I've got the option to take some levels of Warblade, I can't help thinking that I'd probably have more fun taking all my levels in Warblade. :)

- Saph

Talya
2008-01-16, 06:39 PM
I know, and it wouldn't be bad or anything . . . it's just that if I've got the option to take some levels of Warblade, I can't help thinking that I'd probably have more fun taking all my levels in Warblade. :)

- Saph

You know, i've never been interested in playing a base class in TOB as that class alone. They seem so boring on their own. That and they multiclass soooo well...if spellcasters gained a half-CL (which in some way included eligibility for higher level spells as well) for every non-caster level they took, Gish-types would be godlike.

I love the idea of mixing them with the dervish PrC and taking mostly boost maneuvers and synergistic stances.

Jack Zander
2008-01-17, 11:47 PM
My friend has the PHBII. I never said anything about never reading through it.

I've never read that feat though. Personally, I think the dragon shaman is overpowered, but only because of his infinite healing to 50% HP ability. The feat doesn't sound too bad now, but I still have a strong dislike for giving PCs fast healing, no matter what.

heh, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you all worked for Wizards... :smallamused:

Ryuuk
2008-01-17, 11:59 PM
It's probably just that we don't see healing as strong as you do. The dragon shaman is actually considered underpowered on most boards I've seen, with the draconic auras being their one saving grace. Aside from standing there and boosting the party, what can the dragon shaman do in a fight that isn't outclassed by other classes?

There are plenty of ways to get healing for a relatively cheap price (Wands of Cure Light Wounds/Lesser Vigor, Healing Belts, there was a whole compendium somewhere on the boards)

Edit: Found it, A Player's Guide to Healing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55951&highlight=heal), plenty of inexpensive ways to keep your HPs up.

The_Snark
2008-01-18, 12:09 AM
My friend has the PHBII. I never said anything about never reading through it.

I've never read that feat though. Personally, I think the dragon shaman is overpowered, but only because of his infinite healing to 50% HP ability. The feat doesn't sound too bad now, but I still have a strong dislike for giving PCs fast healing, no matter what.

heh, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you all worked for Wizards... :smallamused:

I don't know. I'd personally like something that mitigates the low-level tendency to have to rest for two or three days mid-adventure while the cleric heals everyone after a tough fight. It's plain silly when it happens in the middle of, say, an enemy fortress, but sending more people up against them while they rest can result in a total party kill, or at least another day of resting.

Yeah, I guess we all jumped on that one. Must be well-liked.

serow
2008-01-18, 04:35 AM
My friend has the PHBII. I never said anything about never reading through it.

I've never read that feat though. Personally, I think the dragon shaman is overpowered, but only because of his infinite healing to 50% HP ability. The feat doesn't sound too bad now, but I still have a strong dislike for giving PCs fast healing, no matter what.

heh, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you all worked for Wizards... :smallamused:My DM likes my Dragon Shaman because with him around, it makes changing and intro-ing new characters mid-game a lot less troublesome (it's so much easier to stabilise party members).

I gotta chime in with the others, PHB2 is a very very very good supplement, one of my favourite books for 3.5. :smallsmile:

Talic
2008-01-18, 05:05 AM
You know, i've never been interested in playing a base class in TOB as that class alone. They seem so boring on their own. That and they multiclass soooo well...if spellcasters gained a half-CL (which in some way included eligibility for higher level spells as well) for every non-caster level they took, Gish-types would be godlike.

I love the idea of mixing them with the dervish PrC and taking mostly boost maneuvers and synergistic stances.

Yeah, but you can't spit without hitting a PrC that has full casting progression. I think that the 1/2 initiator progression is to make up for the fact that not many PrC's work with it without that ability, and allowing it to fully incorporate into the D&D system, rather than only work if you're running with the ToB classes.

bosssmiley
2008-01-18, 08:44 AM
Perusing through PH2, I was wondering whether or not the Combat Focus feat tree was any good?

Good. We house-ruled that feat chain as a series of class abilities for fighters - each comes online at the requisite BAB level. The combat focus tree rocks (so far as feats can).

#Raptor
2008-01-18, 11:03 AM
I've never read that feat though. Personally, I think the dragon shaman is overpowered, but only because of his infinite healing to 50% HP ability. The feat doesn't sound too bad now, but I still have a strong dislike for giving PCs fast healing, no matter what.

Well, theres this:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Fast_Healing,
3 fast healing, always, not just in combat.

A dwarf could fill the prereq. of Con 25 at lvl 18-20 without stretching his funds too much. (Starting at 16 + 2 Dwarf + 2 lvl-up's + 5 Manual of Bodily Health)
But if you look at the crazy things other chars can do at those levels...

Ryuuk
2008-01-18, 07:32 PM
Don't you have to be level 21 to pick up epic feats though? At that point game balance is kinda moot.

RTGoodman
2008-01-19, 02:31 AM
Don't you have to be level 21 to pick up epic feats though?

Yep. You can't get one unless you're already epic.


ACQUIRING EPIC FEATS

Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class.


As far as the Combat Focus chain goes, I'm planning on picking it up for my Fighter in the Eberron campaign that we're playing (though it's on hold for another week or so). Of course, the main reason I picked it initially is just because I had a feat I didn't know how to spend, so I just went with it.

As far as allowing Barbarians to use it while raging, I think it should be okay. There isn't anything mechanically saying that you have to be "focused," so I'd just say that he gets a bonus to will saves (or other abilities) as a different sort of rage. That is, he sees blood (makes his first attack) and, even if he's raging already, it makes him fight even harder and be even hard to control (i.e., +x to Will saves).

Jack Zander
2008-01-19, 03:45 AM
Well, theres this:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Fast_Healing,
3 fast healing, always, not just in combat.

A dwarf could fill the prereq. of Con 25 at lvl 18-20 without stretching his funds too much. (Starting at 16 + 2 Dwarf + 2 lvl-up's + 5 Manual of Bodily Health)
But if you look at the crazy things other chars can do at those levels...

Yeah, I've never had a problem with Epic feats just because of how unbalanced Epic spells are in comparison.