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Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:12 PM
Okay, okay, I know this sounds pretty stupid, but when I was considering damage potential for a fighter a while back, it seemed Spirited Charge makes for a great hit. Now, let's say I get two lances. When doing a charge, you make one attack, unless you have pounce - yes? Grab that, and Oversized Two-Weapon fighting for two lances (A Lance is normally a two-handed weapon, but when mounted, it can be wielded with one hand). Then, take the Cavalier PrC. Wowzers.

Let's take a look at the mechanical build

1 Barbarian (for Lion Totem - Pounce)
8 Fighter (5 feats)

at level 9, one should have 4 feats normally.

Let's make this guy a human.

1 Mounted Combat
1H Power Attack
2F Improved Bull Rush
3 Ride-By Attack
3F Spirited Charge
5F Two-Weapon Fighting
6 Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
7F Shock Trooper
9 Weapon Focus: Lance
9F Weapon Specialization: Lance

Now, let's take 10 levels of Cavalier, and one level of anything other than Fighter, for fun.

What other feats? Depends on how Monkey Grip works (I forget!) - if it lets you wield a larger lance size than normal, we can up our damage die. I'll exclude it for now.

12 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
15 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18 Greater Weapon Focus: Lance (?)

Starting stats, 25 pt buy:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 9
CHA 8

End Stats (level 20)

STR 16 + 5 inherent + 5 level bonus + 6 Magic item = 32 (+11 mod), yes?
DEX 16 + 6 Magic Item = 22 (+6 mod)
Let's now consider the weapons:

Lance +5, Lance +5. What do we add? Eh, nothing now, this should be good enough.

Charge!!

Using Shock Trooper for a Full-Power Attack, and Pouncing on our Charge, we get

Lance 1: Gets four attacks that deal [1d8 (base damage, avg = 4.5) +11 (strength bonus) +20 (power attack) +5 (magic bonus) +2 (specialization)], each one of which is multiplied by 5, because of the Cavalier's Unstoppable Charge ability. Regular average damage: 4.5+11+20+5+2 = 42.5. Multiplied by 5 = 212.5. Four of those.

Lance 2: Gets three attacks that deal [1d8 +5 (halved strength bonus) +20 +5 + 2], all of which that are multiplied by 5 as well. Regular average damage: 36.5. Multiplied by 5 = 182.5. Three of those.

This Cavalier can force as many as 7 Fort saves (massive damage threshold) in a single round, not including the benefits from haste (another attack could mean another save!).

That's not even counting Rage.

Am I missing something? Did I interpret something incorrectly? Let me know!

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-16, 06:23 PM
Without dusting off my ubercharger sheet, I believe that you are better off two-handing a lance while charging to get that extra damage and the 2-for-1 trade with power attack as well as an actual chance to hit.

If you tried this in my game, I'd say, 'Well, yes... but the rules say you may wield a lance in one hand while mounted, not two.' Either that or some knight errant with a similar build would challenge you to a joust...

I'm not saying some crazy bastard coming at you on some slavering warbeast with two gigantic spikes jutting from where his hands should be isn't awesome. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Can you afford two +5 lances at level 10 by WBL?

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:24 PM
As far as I can tell everything looks all-right.

Add Valorous (UE IIRC) to your lances to deal double dmg on your charge attacks. GWF is not worth it, better take Melee Weapon Mastery for +2 to hit and dmg.

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:26 PM
well, let's see...

2:1

4 attacks, each x5.

(20+20)*4=160, as opposed to 80 for 1-handing, thus makes the difference 80.

80x5=400

182.5x3= 527.5, does it not?

Of course, two-handing, I'm sure, would be much more reliable (considering all the minuses of two-weapon fighting)

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:27 PM
Edit: Can you afford two +5 lances at level 10 by WBL?

It's lvl20 build.

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:29 PM
I'm not saying some crazy bastard coming at you on some slavering warbeast with two gigantic spikes jutting from where his hands should be isn't awesome. :smallbiggrin:


Which was the primary inspiration for me to continue with the exercise!



Edit: Can you afford two +5 lances at level 10 by WBL?

10? No - this is modelled to be level 20. If you mean 20, I believe so - I think you have like millions of gold at that point, and +5 weapons would be only a couple of hundred thousand, at most. I think. I don't really play high-level games.

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:29 PM
Of course, two-handing, I'm sure, would be much more reliable (considering all the minuses of two-weapon fighting)

Plus a lot cheaper, but that's probably not the point of the build.
Is there maybe Exotic version of lances or something similar to use EWM for Uncanny Blow.

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-16, 06:29 PM
It's lvl20 build.

So it is. My mistake.

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-16, 06:31 PM
Considering this for Barin, perhaps? <<

Anyway, typically, it'd be a better idea to take a single lance and use it with both hands. That way, instead of +20 from power attack, you get +40, for a grand total of 100 damage more on each strike, without the attack penalties you get from TWF. You're assuming each attack hits, and I never assume any of my attacks beyond the second have a decent chance of hitting.

Still, it's a monster of a build. No, you cannot do that in my game. As Fool said, you can weild a lance one handed while mounted.

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:31 PM
I think you have like millions of gold at that point

Not millions, but 760k is close enough.

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:31 PM
Plus a lot cheaper, but that's probably not the point of the build. :smallbiggrin:


Is there maybe Exotic version of lances or something similar to use EWM for Uncanny Blow.

Don't believe so, but I see what you mean.

The_Snark
2008-01-16, 06:33 PM
If you sell your soul to Baphomet, you can get the ability to do double damage on a charge. (Again.)

No, really. Abyss-bound Soul feat, Fiendish Codex I. Just... don't die.

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:33 PM
Considering this for Barin, perhaps? <<
beyond the second have a decent chance of hitting.

Still, it's a monster of a build. No, you cannot do that in my game. As Fool said, you can weild a lance one handed while mounted.

Damn!

No, I would never play this. Far too vulernable to magic. That is, of course, why I'll be convincing a fellow player to make this character, and I'll be his "best friend", who is by chance, an Enchanter.

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:34 PM
Anyway, typically, it'd be a better idea to take a single lance and use it with both hands. That way, instead of +20 from power attack, you get +40, for a grand total of 100 damage more on each strike, without the attack penalties you get from TWF. You're assuming each attack hits, and I never assume any of my attacks beyond the second have a decent chance of hitting.


It's more about the damage potential, than the reliability of the build.

Plus, it's two freakin' lances. That's amazing, and you know it.

Mojo_Rat
2008-01-16, 06:35 PM
This seems to me one of those cases where reality needs to just kick the game mechanics to the curb. For one when you use a lance you Hit the target to your right (or left in the case of a left handed jouster i suppose) This means that in the case of 2 lances means one lance would have to go crosswise accross your body and the force of impact would likely kill you :)


Unless of yourse your intent is to just ram into things head long like a car and not worry about wether You or your mount can walk away from it.

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-16, 06:36 PM
It's lvl20 build.

So it is. My mistake.

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:36 PM
Unless of yourse your intent is to just ram into things head long like a car and not worry about wether You or your mount can walk away from it.

Easy Answer: Trample them.:smallamused:

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 06:36 PM
Unless of yourse your intent is to just ram into things head long like a car and not worry about wether You or your mount can walk away from it.

I AM using Shock Trooper in the build.

Proven_Paradox
2008-01-16, 06:39 PM
Plus, it's two freakin' lances. That's amazing, and you know it.

I'll grant you that. The image it invokes is... well... Amazing, as you say.

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-16, 06:40 PM
If you sell your soul to Baphomet, you can get the ability to do double damage on a charge. (Again.)

No, really. Abyss-bound Soul feat, Fiendish Codex I. Just... don't die.

There's also the 1st-level paladin spell 'Rhino's Rush' which grants you an additional multiplier on a charge. Swift action to cast. I'm not sure how you could work that in there. You'd need 4 levels of paladin or one to make an item for you.

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:42 PM
There's also the 1st-level paladin spell 'Rhino's Rush' which grants you an additional multiplier on a charge. Swift action to cast. I'm not sure how you could work that in there. You'd need 4 levels of paladin or one to make an item for you.

That's also ranger spell. And Ranger 2 gets you TWF so it can be good choice. Problem with Rhino's Rush is that it works on your next charge attack, so you can interpret it to work on just first attack. But it is still useful.

BRC
2008-01-16, 06:46 PM
This build would be awsome, unfortunetally it would be useless in about a gajillion situations where charging mounted is not an option. But still....

marjan
2008-01-16, 06:51 PM
This build would be awsome, unfortunetally it would be useless in about a gajillion situations where charging mounted is not an option. But still....

As Person Man would say: "Take Strongheart Halfling and riding dog as a mount."
There will be other situations where you can't charge but in those situations you won't be able to charge anyway.

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-16, 06:57 PM
This build would be awsome, unfortunetally it would be useless in about a gajillion situations where charging mounted is not an option. But still....

Which is why you make uberdude here a halfling and have him ride a one of his fellow party members into combat. It's completely valid. You merely take a penalty to your ride check and have to make a ride check to allow your 'mount' to attack as well. If bonus feats are an issue, there are always flaws.

To bump his strength up some more, may I suggest orc? +4 str, no LA.

Isn't there some hammer that allows one who possesses it to stack the bonuses of both a belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power?

Worira
2008-01-16, 07:14 PM
Which is why you make uberdude here a halfling and have him ride a one of his fellow party members into combat. It's completely valid. You merely take a penalty to your ride check and have to make a ride check to allow your 'mount' to attack as well. If bonus feats are an issue, there are always flaws.

To bump his strength up some more, may I suggest orc? +4 str, no LA.

Isn't there some hammer that allows one who possesses it to stack the bonuses of both a belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power?

Schroedinger's Cavalier?

Talya
2008-01-16, 07:18 PM
Schroedinger's Cavalier?

Don't open the fricken' box. Please.

Swooper
2008-01-16, 07:51 PM
So it is. My mistake.
I feel obliged (since no-one else has) to congratulate you for managing to double post with a seven minute interval, while also getting ninja'd seven times. My hat off to you, sir! :smalltongue:

Isn't it annoying though, dear Barin, when the DM catches your cheese before you pull it off, eh? :smallamused:

9bit
2008-01-16, 07:56 PM
HOLY BATSHACKLES..

That's like 1k damage.. 0_0

Deepblue706
2008-01-16, 08:53 PM
Isn't it annoying though, dear Barin, when the DM catches your cheese before you pull it off, eh? :smallamused:

Barin is loaded with archery feats. He wouldn't be able to do this, anyway.

Person_Man
2008-01-17, 12:50 AM
As Person Man would say: "Take Strongheart Halfling and riding dog as a mount."
There will be other situations where you can't charge but in those situations you won't be able to charge anyway.

Hey, that's my line!!!

But yeah, one of my favorite PCs of all time was a halfling knight named Sir Didymus. Search for it on the board if your interested in the build. A small PC on a medium mount can go pretty much anywhere, starting at level one. At higher levels you should pick up a special mount with a Climb speed, and then eventually a Fly speed. You can do this with Leadership, or a Paladin Mount, or an Animal Companion.

Anywho, a Tarrasque has 858 hp and AC 35. So once you can convincingly deal that much damage on a charge (Pounce + 4-8ish attacks with +25ish To-Hit and 200ish average damage per attack) you can stop, and diversify your feats and class abilities into other things. The easiest method is to be a Cleric or Archivist and just buff yourself to an insane level. But there are a ton of ways, and the optimization boards are littered with charge builds.

BlackMage2549
2008-01-17, 01:07 AM
If you tried this in my game, I'd say, 'Well, yes... but the rules say you may wield a lance in one hand while mounted, not two.'



Still, it's a monster of a build. No, you cannot do that in my game. As Fool said, you can weild a lance one handed while mounted.

I would simply tell my DM, "The A in the phrase "A lance" refers to the lance in question, in this case the one being described by the description." And, because he's not so closeminded about such things, he'd consider it and realize that the language works BOTH ways. That's simply your intepretation, and shouldn't be used to condemn this beautiful concept.

Rockphed
2008-01-17, 01:18 AM
Okay, since this seems like a reasonable place to ask, What does having your mount charge cost you, actions wise? I know that the mount moves double it's move speed, and can make an attack at the end and takes a full round action, but what does it cost you?

Talic
2008-01-17, 03:04 AM
Without dusting off my ubercharger sheet, I believe that you are better off two-handing a lance while charging to get that extra damage and the 2-for-1 trade with power attack as well as an actual chance to hit.

With Shock Trooper, you may still have a chance to hit, and since you're making roughly 2x the amount of attacks, the power attack 1 for 1 still comes out fine... Better if you use combat brute. (1 lance charging gets 1 for 3, 2 lances charging get 1 for 2 each, for a total of 1 for 4) If you want to try to cheese it, take leap attack, and get the horse to jump.


If you tried this in my game, I'd say, 'Well, yes... but the rules say you may wield a lance in one hand while mounted, not two.'

Good thing he's not trying to wield two lances in one hand then, huh?
:smallsmile:

Deepblue706
2008-01-17, 03:31 AM
I don't know much about the class, but is there any way to implement the Tempest into this? I hear that grants more attacks.

Deepblue706
2008-01-17, 03:33 AM
Okay, since this seems like a reasonable place to ask, What does having your mount charge cost you, actions wise? I know that the mount moves double it's move speed, and can make an attack at the end and takes a full round action, but what does it cost you?

A mounted charge is the same as you charging on foot. You can make a charge on a mount using its speed to deliver your own attacks.

Talic
2008-01-17, 03:33 AM
I don't know much about the class, but is there any way to implement the Tempest into this? I hear that grants more attacks.

Not likely effectively, and the only real benefit is perfect TWF, which gets rid of the last -2/-2.

McMindflayer
2008-01-17, 05:31 AM
This seems to me one of those cases where reality needs to just kick the game mechanics to the curb. For one when you use a lance you Hit the target to your right (or left in the case of a left handed jouster i suppose) This means that in the case of 2 lances means one lance would have to go crosswise accross your body and the force of impact would likely kill you :)


Unless of yourse your intent is to just ram into things head long like a car and not worry about wether You or your mount can walk away from it.

Actually you want to go crosswise across your body. If you were to go straight on, then the lance would stick into the man's body, and as he's going into the opposite direction, the force against your arm, which is trying to make the lance continue forward, will probably break it, or tear it off.

Crossways your stabbing at the person on the side, and is less likely to get stuck, since there is less force on it, as well as the angle is easier to slide out as you pass.

But that is neither here nor there considering that he plans on ending his charge in front of the person he wishes to stab and then stab him multiple times. otherwise, he would only get one attack per lance.

as for the build, I applaud you on it, for it is rather well made, though for only the one purpose. the only problem is after every charge, if the thing lives, then you have to back up and charge again, addmitadly this is only 10 feet, but that can be rather hazardous if you just ran into enemy territory, aiming at the big kahuna, bypassing all the little gaurds who would like to have an AoO on your about now.

If I may suggest, getting some teleport ability, via magic item or something. There are some nice boots in MiC that allow you to transport yourself and gear to like, 20 ft away. Sadly it says you can't bring another person with you. But last I checked, a horse wasn't a person...
Just a suggestion for the build.

Cybren
2008-01-18, 12:27 AM
This seems to me one of those cases where reality needs to just kick the game mechanics to the curb. For one when you use a lance you Hit the target to your right (or left in the case of a left handed jouster i suppose) This means that in the case of 2 lances means one lance would have to go crosswise accross your body and the force of impact would likely kill you :)


Unless of yourse your intent is to just ram into things head long like a car and not worry about wether You or your mount can walk away from it.

If we're going to apply reality to the scenario all mounted charges should use the horses strength modifier for damage

Fhaolan
2008-01-18, 12:35 AM
I have to admit that while this is one of those 'not possible in Real Life' thingies that normally bothers me, the mental image is enough that I think I'm going to try to talk one of the jousters in my stage combat group into doing this in show. Just for the audience reaction.

Given that in the last show we had two jousters take the fight to the ground and still be trying to beat each other up with lances (very funny to watch), I think I can talk fast enough to get *someone* to try this. :smallbiggrin:

Solo
2008-01-18, 12:36 AM
HOLY BATSHACKLES..

That's like 1k damage.. 0_0

Over 1k? No, my friend....



It's OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!

skywalker
2008-01-18, 02:12 AM
If I may suggest, getting some teleport ability, via magic item or something. There are some nice boots in MiC that allow you to transport yourself and gear to like, 20 ft away. Sadly it says you can't bring another person with you. But last I checked, a horse wasn't a person...
Just a suggestion for the build.

Next time I need to teleport but don't want to lose my horse, I'm definitely telling my DM that he's gear, not another person. Quote: "See, look, horses are in the 'goods and services' category of the SRD and everything! They MUST be gear!"

Also, this image, is, in fact, the r0xooRs.

Deepblue706
2008-01-18, 03:35 AM
So, we add the Valorous (double charge damage) property to the lances, and take Abyss-Bound soul, or whatever. So, let's say every attack hit, because it's more fun to say this worked. Hey, Cavaliers simply get a +3 bonus with lances when mounted, and you get a +1 bonus for being mounted regardless, and with some more modifiers slapped on there...is it really that so hard to say it'll happen at least once in a while?

850+527.5=1377.5

Double it for VALOR!

2754.

Then, we'll sell our soul for another double.

5608.

Okay, really - we've gotta get this up as high as we can. Solo has inspired me to actually reach over 9000.

Say, for instance, if we slapped Vicious onto each Lance - does that damage multiply as well? I mean, not for critical hits is noted, no information in the SRD seems to imply that it's a no-no for charge multiplication.

Vicious will grant us 7 avg damage each stab. Multiply by 5 (Unstoppable Charge), and get 35. 35 times the 7 attacks gets us 245. Double for VALOR gives us 490. Double for soul-selling, and we have +980.

6588. C'mon, we can do better. What kind of modification is Valorous? +2? +3? Hopefully not more than +4! We need room for more crap!

pasko77
2008-01-18, 03:43 AM
Is there any way to grant some automatic critical hit?
I'm no expert, that's just an idea to exploit :)

Talic
2008-01-18, 03:43 AM
So, we add the Valorous (double charge damage) property to the lances, and take Abyss-Bound soul, or whatever. So, let's say every attack hit, because it's more fun to say this worked. Hey, Cavaliers simply get a +3 bonus with lances when mounted, and you get a +1 bonus for being mounted regardless, and with some more modifiers slapped on there...is it really that so hard to say it'll happen at least once in a while?

850+527.5=1377.5

Double it for VALOR!

2754.

Then, we'll sell our soul for another double.

5608.

Okay, really - we've gotta get this up as high as we can. Solo has inspired me to actually reach over 9000.

Say, for instance, if we slapped Vicious onto each Lance - does that damage multiply as well? I mean, not for critical hits is noted, no information in the SRD seems to imply that it's a no-no for charge multiplication.

Vicious will grant us 7 avg damage each stab. Multiply by 5 (Unstoppable Charge), and get 35. 35 times the 7 attacks gets us 245. Double for VALOR gives us 490. Double for soul-selling, and we have +980.

6588. C'mon, we can do better. What kind of modification is Valorous? +2? +3? Hopefully not more than +4! We need room for more crap!

Merciful? Though the implications of merciful and vicious on the same wepon hurts my brain.

Other things you may consider is enlarge for additional str and size damage, and other str buffs.


Is there any way to grant some automatic critical hit?
I'm no expert, that's just an idea to exploit :)

Automatic Threat can be gained with Surge of Fortune, and I believe there's a feat that gives you +4 to confirm crits.

Deepblue706
2008-01-18, 03:48 AM
Merciful? Though the implications of merciful and vicious on the same wepon hurts my brain.

That, and well...the implications of mercifully pumping dual lances into someone's torso at speeds comparable to a machine-gun rate-of-fire is a bit mind-bending, why not go all-out?



Other things you may consider is enlarge for additional str and size damage, and other str buffs.

Yeah, some potions could make him beefier...



Automatic Threat can be gained with Surge of Fortune, and I believe there's a feat that gives you +4 to confirm crits.

Automatic Threat...? Dear god...

Draz74
2008-01-18, 03:49 AM
Bless Weapon (core Paladin 1 spell) makes you auto-confirm crits if the target is evil.

Deepblue706
2008-01-18, 03:59 AM
DEAR GOD!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3806208&posted=1#post3806208

This allows for the perfect opportunity - an ultra-golem mount for this ultra-dual-lance warrior! I can make it a hexapod death-mobile, giving it an amazing move-speed, and just slaughter everything. Now, I can finally have a D&D version of Metal Gear! Oddly enough, it'll only fight melee.

So, maybe it'll be more like Voltron, or something. Wait a second...

What if I had a golem carrying like, 5 of these guys?

pasko77
2008-01-18, 04:54 AM
Automatic Threat can be gained with Surge of Fortune, and I believe there's a feat that gives you +4 to confirm crits.

Yes, that's what i meant, simple spells or baubles that double damage for free, it seems that 9000 is already small numbers :)
Glad to help :)

Now, can we find some lance weapon with x3 or x4 crit? :)

Talic
2008-01-18, 05:10 AM
Yes, that's what i meant, simple spells or baubles that double damage for free, it seems that 9000 is already small numbers :)
Glad to help :)

Now, can we find some lance weapon with x3 or x4 crit? :)

So a Blessed Lance and a ring of spell storing with a Surge of Fortune in it would work well against any evil foe. If he has a few levels of paladin and a decent UMD, he can have his enlarge person scroll also affect his mount, heh.

BadJuJu
2008-01-18, 12:23 PM
Considering this for Barin, perhaps? <<

Anyway, typically, it'd be a better idea to take a single lance and use it with both hands. That way, instead of +20 from power attack, you get +40, for a grand total of 100 damage more on each strike, without the attack penalties you get from TWF. You're assuming each attack hits, and I never assume any of my attacks beyond the second have a decent chance of hitting.

Still, it's a monster of a build. No, you cannot do that in my game. As Fool said, you can weild a lance one handed while mounted.

Just find a way to get four arms and you can duel wield and 2 hand

marjan
2008-01-19, 02:35 AM
Just find a way to get four arms and you can duel wield and 2 hand

Girallon's Blessing (SC) from ring of spell storing would do that.

I'm AFB right now so couple of questions:
1. Does Cavalier advance druid's animal companion? If so you can get couple of druid's levels to get better mount.
2. Is Girallon's Blessing on druid list? If it is you could pick-up 3 druid lvls to get spell and animal companion and it will cost you only 1 point of BAB and 1 feat.

Edit: Cleric3 will get you Girallon's Blessing, but not animal companion.

Deepblue706
2008-01-19, 11:23 PM
Girallon's Blessing (SC) from ring of spell storing would do that.

I'm AFB right now so couple of questions:
1. Does Cavalier advance druid's animal companion? If so you can get couple of druid's levels to get better mount.
2. Is Girallon's Blessing on druid list? If it is you could pick-up 3 druid lvls to get spell and animal companion and it will cost you only 1 point of BAB and 1 feat.

Edit: Cleric3 will get you Girallon's Blessing, but not animal companion.

1) No, only a Paladin's Mount.

2) I don't know if it's on the druid list - however, taking cleric levels seems like a fair alternative. But, can't we just get potions for that?

skywalker
2008-01-20, 02:07 AM
Solarian Truesteel(BoED) grants a +1 on confirmation rolls, and is quite useful since it only adds to the price of the weapon, not its effective bonus. Power critical is the feat which grants +4 to confirm.

Ninja Chocobo
2008-01-20, 02:30 AM
1) No, only a Paladin's Mount.

Couldn't you find a full-animal companion Ranger variant, and take Devoted Tracker?

Or doesn't that work?

Person_Man
2008-01-20, 03:28 PM
Just find a way to get four arms and you can duel wield and 2 hand

In addition to Girillion's Blessing, you could take levels of the Demonbinder or Fang of Lloth PrC. Or you could be a Thri Kreen and eat the LA and racial hit dice. Then take the Multi-Weapon Fighting feats, and you could wield 4 lances.

You could also improve your Power Attack with the Favored Power Attack feat.

But again, once your charge damage gets to a certain point, you should really diversify into something else. There's no award for damaging an enemy beyond -10.

Quietus
2008-01-20, 04:44 PM
But again, once your charge damage gets to a certain point, you should really diversify into something else. There's no award for damaging an enemy beyond -10.

Yes there is, and it's paid in awesome.

Of course, anyone who does this really isn't doing the image justice if they aren't wearing spiked armor with a spiked large shield on their back, even if said shield goes unused.

::Edit:: Throw that last level you have to spare in as Monk, and pick up Versatile Unarmed Strike... as a thri-kreen. Now not only do you have four giant spiky lances, in addition to armor and shield, but even your ELBOWS AND KNEES are spiky!

holywhippet
2008-01-20, 04:50 PM
Here's a possible counter to the charge from hell. Equip a character with a net and have them prepare a readied action to throw the net at the the first person who tries to charge them. A net has a max range of 10 feet - a lance has a range of 10 feet. In theory the readied action kicks in first since that person has the higher initiative or was prepared for this since their last round. Deploying a net requires only a ranged touch attack which means a lot of the AC of the person performing the charge goes down the drain.

What would be the aftermath though? You can't charge while netted, so I'd imagine it would end up as a trip. Of course, you'd be falling at speed in the direction of the person you were charging.

Deepblue706
2008-01-20, 05:50 PM
Here's a possible counter to the charge from hell. Equip a character with a net and have them prepare a readied action to throw the net at the the first person who tries to charge them. A net has a max range of 10 feet - a lance has a range of 10 feet. In theory the readied action kicks in first since that person has the higher initiative or was prepared for this since their last round. Deploying a net requires only a ranged touch attack which means a lot of the AC of the person performing the charge goes down the drain.

What would be the aftermath though? You can't charge while netted, so I'd imagine it would end up as a trip. Of course, you'd be falling at speed in the direction of the person you were charging.

I don't know and I don't care. This is very easily countered by a number of things - including other mounted fighters (a mounted archer could slowly take this guy out by just having his mount run in circles around him). Making an invulnerable fighter is not the purpose, it's to say "I have a Fighter who can, under rare circumstances, deal absurdly high amounts of damage, using a silly technique". This is like D&D's "Sword-Chucks", if I do say so myself.

Wanna know another way to beat this fighter? Dig a ditch.

BadJuJu
2008-01-20, 06:31 PM
In addition to Girillion's Blessing, you could take levels of the Demonbinder or Fang of Lloth PrC. Or you could be a Thri Kreen and eat the LA and racial hit dice. Then take the Multi-Weapon Fighting feats, and you could wield 4 lances.

You could also improve your Power Attack with the Favored Power Attack feat.

But again, once your charge damage gets to a certain point, you should really diversify into something else. There's no award for damaging an enemy beyond -10.

Isnt there also a martial manuver that gives you rend damage? I know its a swift action, but dont remember the level.

Ninja Chocobo
2008-01-20, 09:45 PM
Isnt there also a martial manuver that gives you rend damage? I know its a swift action, but dont remember the level.

Girallion Windmill Flesh Rip. Not sure of the specifics, though.

BadJuJu
2008-01-21, 02:10 AM
Yeah, thats it. Sounds like a fun suprise to hit a character with when they get too big for their brithches.

BlackMage2549
2008-01-21, 04:34 AM
Posting from memory about Girallon Flesh Windmill Rip (Or whatever the proper order is), here's what it does.

8d6 rend damage for two hits, with +2d6 for each hit above the second. Thus, hitting five times will net you 14d6(Hope the math's right!).

It's also a boost, requiring naught but a swift action to activate. Think it's an eighth level manuver from the Tiger Claw set.

BadJuJu
2008-01-23, 01:31 PM
Thats a really high manifester level. Would rock if you could do it, but I guess is not all that important. But if you could do it and get high on the TWF tree, it gets alot better.

marjan
2008-01-23, 06:05 PM
Thats a really high manifester level. Would rock if you could do it, but I guess is not all that important. But if you could do it and get high on the TWF tree, it gets alot better.

Martial script will let you do that. Though you need pretty high Martial Lore check - DC 35.