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daggaz
2008-01-17, 06:46 AM
My sixth lvl dwarven cleric has started to tunnel out (stoneshape) a secret home for himself, and would like to have the entrance as secret as possible of course.

My first thoughts were to leave a large enough plug of stone in the entrance way, and create a magical resetting meld-with-stone trap there.

Two main problems I can see with this approach are 1) anybody could set off the "trap", and 2) the cost is minimum 12,500 gp which would take my character a good long time to amass.

I like this idea tho, as technically its not a secret door, so no elves getting search rolls to find it. (not sure if dwarven stone sense works on a magical trap in the stone, always thought that was more physical traps..)

But still, I would also much prefer that there was a password to get in, or something in that manner that only myself or somebody who was really, really good at breaking and entering into magically protected homes could pass.

So, playgrounders... Any advice on how a PC goes about building secret doors with keywords etc? The only applicable feat I have is craft wonderous item, I have _zero_ good skills for this, I have 3rd lvl clerical spells, and while im not rich per se, I'm not exactly poor either. So preferably a cost under 10k gold, really less than 5k would be best.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-17, 06:56 AM
Phase Door (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phaseDoor.htm). Permanancy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm). Should work well enough for your purposes.

Jack_Simth
2008-01-17, 07:12 AM
Phase Door (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phaseDoor.htm). Permanancy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm). Should work well enough for your purposes.
Not really - he's looking for solutions under 10k, and not only can he not cast the spells himself, but the XP cost of the Permanency alone runs 17,500 gp.

Now, he could probably make a normal (but flat) door and lock that opens inwards, and hire a casting of Illusory Wall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/illusoryWall.htm) to cover the seams and keyhole, though.

Half-blood
2008-01-17, 07:38 AM
just simply state its a secret door, even if it is marked on the map, The gm won't notice. or if he does, yeah. Just use a permanency spell paired with like...invisiblitiy

paigeoliver
2008-01-17, 07:51 AM
I would just go with a standard secret door. If the DM wants to have NPCs break into your little fort then they are going to do it no matter what you do. Actually they are more likely to do so if you make a big deal about stuff.

Premier
2008-01-17, 07:58 AM
If I were you, I'd just forget about rules and magic item crafting mechanics and all that BS for a moment, and concentrate on creativity. Think up something that:
A, is interesting and original, and
B, isn't overpowered for the amount of money you wish to spend and for the general level of play you're presently at;

and then just talk to the DM saying "I'd like to have this, and I have about this much gold, and I'm willing to go on a quest to get some rare ingredient if you rule that one's necessary; could we just eyeball it?"


By the way, I'd be vary of a completely magic-based entrance, or at least would have a mechanical backdoor. What if someone casts Disjunction on the entrance then sets an ambush, and you happen to arrive all exhausted and out of spells? You'd be screwed, since the door no longer works, and you don't have any spells to get in under your own power.

Riffington
2008-01-17, 08:02 AM
Create a wondrous item that casts Stone Shape 4x per day (command word activated = cost 10,800 for you to create). It can be a bit cheaper if you don't plan to both enter and leave your home each day. If you just cast the Stone Shape yourself when you want to, it's free (carry a wand or scroll of stone shape just in case you are out of spells and need to get into your home in an emergency).

Net result: you have no actual door to your home. All you have is a section of rock that is a mere one foot thick. You stone shape it away to enter, and then stone shape it into place to reform a solid wall. Plus, no need to hire anyone else (which would be an issue if you are non-evil but still want to keep it a secret).

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-17, 08:32 AM
Heck, you can make the stone shape 2x per day, then have a door that can only be opened from the inside. The item is cheaper, and you aren't using as much magic.

daggaz
2008-01-17, 10:34 AM
Hmm yeah, I didnt even think about making a stoneshape item. Not only would that be a great way for the door (I thought about using the spell, but didnt want to have to memorize one or two each day), but it would help me immensely in carving out an even bigger tunnel complex.

But still, I am curious as to the mechanical rules for creating secret doors. Obviously using magical illusions would hide a door, but thats not exactly secret if anybody happens to cast detect magic nearby (which in my case they are certain to do). I play on a multiplayer chat, so who knows what other people will do, and everything is really by the books, literally, so getting the DM to just hand wave something for me....meh, i dont even want to ask about it that way. Would much rather know and follow the rules, if there are any.

So far what I like best, is having some item to stoneshape a stone wallplug away, revealing a small corridor. Down the corridor some distance, there would be another door with a lock and magical traps as well, for extra security. So this way, the front entrance doesn't show up as 'secret' or 'magical' or even as a door, but further inside somebody will have to bust thru a solid locked metal door, complete with magical traps.

Now... unfortunately im not too sure the main DM will let me crarft any custom magic items, its possible but kinda iffy, so any other good ideas would be mucho appreciated! =)

Citizen Joe
2008-01-17, 10:21 PM
To take something from ToH... Make three entrances... all of which are traps. The real entrance is on the other side of the hill...

Chronos
2008-01-17, 10:26 PM
Two doors is a good idea, but I would recommend putting the mundane one first. If someone accidentally gets through the magic door, and finds a mundane but securely-locked one behind it, they're going to come back with a rogue or a Knock spell. Instead, what you do is dig out a small cellar, and put the mundane door outside that. Store something minor (that you wouldn't mind losing, but still marginally valuable) in the cellar. Put your magical door behind a perfectly mundane, non-attached wooden shelf. Finally, arrange brush or other local debris around the outer entrance to the cellar.

Ideally, nobody will notice the cellar entrance at all. If someone does, the mundane locked door behind the brush will deter some of them. Anyone who's determined enough to get through the locked door finds your secret stash of moonshine, and figures that's all that's there. And with the shelf in place (which is not attached to the wall, and therefore obviously not part of some secret-passage entrance), nobody will happen to accidentally stand in the wrong spot to trigger the "trap".

Fiery Diamond
2008-01-17, 10:48 PM
I agree with Chronos.

As far as rule mechanics for secret doors, when working out a DC, discuss with DM. Other than that, just use your imagination; there aren't really very many hard and fast rules.

-Fiery Diamond

FlyMolo
2008-01-17, 11:17 PM
Find a (really big)cavern underground, yes? Then Stone Shape stairs everywhere on the walls. Then make the door into your lair halfway up the wall. Cover it with illusory wall. Hay Presto! No Problemo!

But the previously mentioned double-blind entrance is good.

daggaz
2008-01-18, 02:26 AM
Find a (really big)cavern underground, yes? Then Stone Shape stairs everywhere on the walls. Then make the door into your lair halfway up the wall. Cover it with illusory wall. Hay Presto! No Problemo!

But the previously mentioned double-blind entrance is good.

aaaand when the other PC's invariably cast detect magic in this room (see above post) they see the wall glowing with inexplicable magical energy.

Ok, think I will stick with the double blind, hmm interesting idea to switch the doors around, think I might actually do that. Thanks for the help guys. =)

Yami
2008-01-18, 02:51 AM
Anklets of dislocation! Or is that translocation... bah, either way, it's a a cheap little trinket from the MIC that could stand you in good stead here.

What you do is have your "locked trapped door" in the front hallway be a false door that goes nowhere. You use you nifty teleporting footwear to warp into the entryway, which just so happens to have murderholes looking into the front hallway.

As for secret, just go craft dungeoneering dc 30 my door looks like the rest of the wall standard issueness. You get too complicated with those things and one night you'll find yourself locked outside one night too drunk from partying after your last caper to remeber whats what.

Kurald Galain
2008-01-18, 08:54 AM
I would suggest that, if you can craft doors, you can also craft secret doors. Either add 5 or 10 to the DC of making that door, or say that the Search DC to find the door equals the result of your crafting check when you made that door.

hewhosaysfish
2008-01-18, 09:08 AM
Anklets of dislocation!

That would be such a funny, cursed item.

daggaz
2008-01-18, 11:05 AM
As for secret, just go craft dungeoneering dc 30 my door looks like the rest of the wall standard issueness. You get too complicated with those things and one night you'll find yourself locked outside one night too drunk from partying after your last caper to remeber whats what.

Craft dungeoneering? Is there such a thing? I've been wondering how exactly the rules cover crafting a normal secret door (no magic, just...you know... a door. Thats secret. Like in the recent OOTS strip.), but I've never heard of craft dungeoneering. Maybe craft dungeon? Cuz dungeoneering sounds rather... intangible.

Anyhow, my poor cleric gets one (1) skill point per level, so I doubt I will be dumping any ranks into craft _anything_ anytime soon. So far I've just opened up knowledge religion and planes, and pumped concentration after that. I might have to splurg and go for knowledge arcana next level tho, heh.

Hypothetical
2008-01-19, 03:01 AM
just simply state its a secret door, even if it is marked on the map, The gm won't notice. or if he does, yeah. Just use a permanency spell paired with like...invisiblitiy

Nobody else has commented on this idea, so I just have to.

I have to assume that this was a joke.

So, you are going to cast permanent invisibility on a "Secret Door". In other words, the people passing this area can see that there is plainly a tunnel, but can't figure out why every time they try to enter it, they smack their heads on something that isn't there?

FlyMolo
2008-01-19, 11:30 AM
aaaand when the other PC's invariably cast detect magic in this room (see above post) they see the wall glowing with inexplicable magical energy.

Ok, think I will stick with the double blind, hmm interesting idea to switch the doors around, think I might actually do that. Thanks for the help guys. =)
put the illusory wall around a corner. That'll do.

The real trick here is to defeat detect magic AND elven secret-door finding, at the same time.