View Full Version : Help a DM with not enough source-books

2008-01-18, 12:50 AM
Okay, so I have a player who wants to make a character reminiscent of Altair (the main character in Assassin's Creed) and the Prince of Persia from his more recent games. Unfortunately, I don't have anything better to say than "I guess you're a rogue then". Anyone have good ideas? Bad ideas?

2008-01-18, 12:52 AM
Main question:
Do you have at least the Complete Scoundrel?

If not, I would recommend looking at homebrew when things get... specific. :smallsmile:

2008-01-18, 12:54 AM
I do not. I take it that it may prove useful?

2008-01-18, 01:07 AM
It has a new idea in it called "Skill Tricks". They cost skill points and are like mini feats.
Some movement skill tricks in it, names as examples: walk the walls, corner perch, wall jumper.

The book works great for this type of character.
And the Uncanny Trickster class only helps further.

2008-01-18, 01:08 AM
I tried to do this myself earlier, Lets see...
He needs both a high STR and a high DEX. 15+ in both, at least a 16 Int for the skillpoints he will need for Balance/Climb/Hide/Jump/MS/Tumble. Add in rings and gloves for magical enhancement and he should be able to match everything seen Altair does. Keep in mind he won't be able to do all this at level 1, at least level 4 before he can start getting the +12 he needs to pull those kinds of stunts off with ease.

Lord Tataraus
2008-01-18, 01:29 AM
Do you have Complete Adventurer? If not, do you have access to the feats in it (such as with crystal keep or the links below)? I suggest the following:
Brachiation (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Brachiation,CAd) - modified to allow the same thing but in a city instead of the forest (or both) where he is using the same idea of jumping/climbing/swinging through the trees/skyline. There are a few other feats which can all be found here (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml), but CA also has an expanded skill usage section that will help out a lot.

Also, Agile Athlete (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Agile_Athlete,RW) from Races of the Wild is a must to make strength unnecessarily and make you more focused on dex. I think there are a few other feats in their that might help out. Also, if the campaign will have a lot of city adventuring there are some feats in Cityscape you might want to look at.

2008-01-18, 01:29 AM
How about the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)? I only know about the character vaguely, but with proper selection of powers, you could do a lot (Wall Walker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/wallWalker.htm) seems appropriate, for instance).

2008-01-18, 10:09 AM
Giving him high climb, jump, balance, and use rope isn't necessarily enough. As the GM you'll have to make sure he's got plenty of stuff to climb on. If feasible I'd suggest drawing your battlemap ahead of time so you can fit in all the details that get ignored when you just sketch it. If there's no flagpoles, awnings, tree limbs, or vines available in your game this guy can have as many athletic skills as he wants and still be as immobile as the dwarven defender.

2008-01-18, 10:14 AM
If you dont have enough source books or dont feel like buying all of them, you can always homebrew a 20 level class.

In your situation it MIGHT be easier and more reasonable to do.

2008-01-18, 10:25 AM
Hello, monks, people. While I'll admit they are not the best class I've made two high-level Altair-ish NPC and used monk plus the ascetic stalker feat. A level of psychic warrior might not be bad either for up the walls.

2008-01-18, 10:28 AM
Hello, monks, people. While I'll admit they are not the best class...

Oh please, they're not even the runner-up.

2008-01-20, 08:32 AM
Crystal Keep has a lot of free resources in pdfs.


The Psychic Rogue was already mentioned there is also a Psychic Assassin at Wizard's. If you have a little time use the search function at Wizard's for classes and adventures as you would be surprised how much useful material is downloadable in a free pdf and even more that is printable so it is a nice way to spice up your game.

The Heart of Tome of Battle the maneuvers everyone discusses on the COB at Wizard's:

As a DM here are 2 nice free resources at Wizard's:


Lots of nice fluff material in the old settings that you can polish off and make your own in any campaign and the same goes for the adventure link.

The RPG archive just click on one of the links on the left to find material you might find useful:


Nice search function for much D&D information (I really like the search function for feats particularly for printing out for a PC even when I have the source book for easy reference. Things like Sorcerer Bloodline feats) and other resources with a description if you double click the item after the search.


2008-01-20, 11:43 AM
You should also know that you absolutely should not go and download the pdfs for these books from a torrent site. That would be wrong. Helpful, but wrong.

2008-01-20, 01:47 PM
Here's the thing I am not clear on: is there something that this character can do that is NOT provided by core (or core plus the splat you have)?

Splatbooks (when well-written) are awesome, but I find it's sometimes too tempting to go and find a supplementary resource for every little thing when your core rules will serve you fine. Many of the core classes are extremely flexible and can do just about anything if you learn how to work with them.

My own personal experience as a GM is "See if Core will do it first, THEN go to splatbooks ONLY when they fail." It will make it easier for you as a GM and for the player not have to refer to 8 different books to remember how the character works.

I am not familiar with this character but reading the thread it sounds like what you want is an acrobat. So what you want is a dex-based character with lots of movement-based skills.

A 1st level character with a 16 Dex with 4 ranks in Tumble and the Acrobatic Feat is going to be doing +9 to Tumble checks. That ain't bad for a beginning character right there, and no need to dip into other books to get it. The Dodge and Combat Expertise Trees might offer some interesting opportunities for the character.

And, yes, probably a rogue would be perfect. The rogue's high reflex saves, evasion, and trap sense would reflect the character's ability to quickly dodge out of the way of danger, and a focus of skillpoints on the skills mentioned above would more than accomplish what you need. Add in the Acrobatic or Agile feat if you want.

Monk, or monk multiclassed to Rogue wouldn't be bad if the character in question is going to focus on hand-to-hand combat when need be. If going this route, I'd probably do level 4 Monk/rest of the way Rogue. This character'd be awesome for sneaking up on someone and knocking them out in one blow--really good for an urban campaign.

If the character is supposed to be charismatic or have some magical abilities, Bard is of course also something to look at.

Prestige classes to consider would be Duelist (if he's a quick moving melee combatant) and Shadowdancer (if he is stealth oriented and seems to be able to move from one shadow to the next without being detected).

Of course there's nothing wrong with going to your sourcebooks, but flesh out the concept and see what you can do with what you have first.