OOTS #523 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Bendal]

Now THAT was funny! Not being able to see the secret door when it's obviously marked right in front of them. Glad to see Belkar come back for Mr. Scruffy too!

And I'm on the first page too; woo hoo!

[Fitzclowningham]

Mr. Scruffy on Roy's skull. Um, eww?

[banjo1985]

Excellent :smallamused:

I'm a big fan of Belkar's pig-headed unstoppable logic! That'll teach Haley not to explain it to him properly. :smallbiggrin:

[Max_Sinister]

Wow, that one came fast - thanks Giant!

Nice title.

[wojonatior]

yay!:smallbiggrin: two days in a row of new comics:smallbiggrin:

[SteveMB]

"It's just easier this way." :smallbiggrin:

[CrystaCub]

Wow, I was here right when it updated, cool....:smallbiggrin:

Awww poor Haley, having to pull that care. Belker sure has a thick skull, think they can use that as a bashing weapon :smallamused: Haley really needs to show a bit of enforcement on Belker to get him to listen... Now to find a way to give Haley a whip

edit: Hmm second look: Just noticed something, look between the 1st and second panels... Magically appearing wound!

[Ink]

Gosh, Belkar's pretty good at getting what he wants, isn't he? Poor Haley, she needs to be a tougher leader. But riding a cart with decomposing corpse - Ugh!

[dogmac]

Mr Scruffy, just don't, you know, EAT Roy. OK? Because that would be really disturbing for him to watch.

Poor Belkar. The eternal question of what is in it for him. He gives and gives and gives so much and doesn't even get a single slave. How to repress a halfling!!!

[Demented]

Tsk. Where's Roy when you need him?
Oh, right, decomposing in the cart.


Y'know, I don't think Haley's ever said "free" so many times in her life. =P

[Aurorax]

I wondered why Belkar was helping. It all comes clear now....

[Soepvork]

It all makes sense now...

[TheWarBlade]

This just proves that Haley is Good....Wonderful strip

[Lyrandar]

Heh. Nice.

[heroe_de_leyenda]

Great strip. Really funny. Belkar IS my favorite characters. I think I'll have my players read "Belkar Bitterleaf's Guide to Evil Players in Good Parties" right away.

It does look that things are still really bad for Haley's team.... I'm still asking myself how is everything going to get fixed... Elans team is really far... and Haley's doesn't seem like being any close to raising Roy.

Hey! Aparently, even Haley has given up the hope on raising Roy. She did say that the ONLY reason they're lugging the body around is Belkar's Mark of Justice.

[Johnny Blade]

Wow...comics sure are coming fast at the moment.

By the way, I can't decide if Belkar is just that dumb or really clever. Anyway, some classic lines here. And Mr. Scruffy's pose in the last panel? Priceless.

[ysp]

Belkar is so great! And I believe Ms. Scruffy is used to having slaves and could put them to good use!(see comics #404 :smallbiggrin: )

[The Duskblade]

Hey! Aparently, even Haley has given up the hope on raising Roy. She did say that the ONLY reason they're lugging the body around is Belkar's Mark of Justice.

Actually it's more a case of the mark being why they can't leave Roy at HQ. I mean even if they find a friendly cleric capable of casting the spell. They would go back to HQ since you don't want to stand around in the streets of an enemy infested city and cast a spell that long.

[Keris]

Such a rapid succession of comics surely spell doom for the forum...

[CRAZYMONGOOSE]

Buahahaha...

yes, it's easier that way :3

[shylocxs]

Wow! Thanks for so many comics so quickly, Rich! It's good to see the story moving along at such a quick pace!

And, to #523... Mr. Scruffy can sit wherever he wants to! I thought he looked cute up there, almost ready for a pose for LOLCATS.

And I need to start bringing in Belkar's logic into my philosophy classes... clearly my students need to learn how to think the way he does. It will make all the difference... though maybe I should worry about the consequences to my own health?

[RTGoodman]

Wow - this is the first time I've been around for an update (or, at least, shortly thereafter) in a long time!


I really thought I was the only one that would find Mr. Scruffy's pose in the last panel funny, but apparently everyone else does, too!

[hewhosaysfish]

FASTER, LITTLE SLAVES!
Heheh.

Belkar and Scruffy are the great new double-act on the block.

Also...

Belkar is so great! And I believe Ms. Scruffy is used to having slaves and could put them to good use!(see comics #404 :smallbiggrin: )

Is that a typo or do you know something we don't?

[Adventurer]

Hehe. Nice one Belkar, if Haley doesn't let you use these persons as slaves, then make her a slave:smallbiggrin:

[lovelyluthien]

*sigh* I'm so in love with Belkar...
Thanks Giant!

[Vectner]

Wow, that was fast! Someday Belkar will have his thralls, just wait and see.

[HOLEkevin]

I woke up my wife laughing at "I really don't see how that benefits me at all." Ah the perils of arguing with the Chaotic Evil.

[Novacat]

Excellent as always.

[mago]

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (evil)

[Issabella]

rapid fire comics yeah! If anyone doubts the halflings evil now :)

[Lyinginbedmon]

Two comics in as many days! Fantastic! :smallbiggrin:

[EllysW]

Wow, two in two days? The Giant must know I've had a long week, thanks. :smallsmile:

I have to have my whole little evil family read this so they'll understand why "It's just easier this way. Trust me" is my new motto.

[Mauve Shirt]

Better post my approval quick before the forums die like they did yesterday!

I approve! :smallbiggrin:

[carebearbecky]

Woooo for friday afternoon strips! That's broken up the afternoon nicely for me.

Bravo. Belkar at his evil best....

[shakes019]

Belkar's awesome. That's a great roleplaying moment. Haley wanted to steal some slaves and he can get behind that.

Also noticed that Haley made her Knowledge (Domination) skill check as well. She doesn't want Tsukiko to know how to find the secret base.

[Fingolfin]

Interesting how in comics that were out in the past few months Blekar's evil alignment comes to focus more and more. I wonder what will happen of this..

[flamingoptimus]

This strip rocks!

its the perfect example of why Middle Management have to DO things themselves ...

"It's just easier this way. Trust me."

[pendell]

HAHAHAHAAAA

Wonderful! I'm glad to see such a rapid update, too, without diminishing the quality.

You've also answered a pressing question I had spoilered last month ... how can Belkar justify remaining with the OOTS, when the bad guys can probably remove his MOJ and get him lots of gratuitous killing too. Answer: Because he's got an attention span normally reserved for lemmings, and alienates everyone he comes across.

I don't know what his int and wis score are, but they've got to be in the single digits.

And, one serious request.

Can you please put a tarpaulin or something over the cart? Okay, we've established that Roy's dead and they're carting his body around. I really don't like looking at his decomposing corpse.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Faramir]

Poor Belkar, not only doesn't he get any slaves after all his hard work he doesn't have the pleasure of knowing that Roy is watching Mr. Scruffy perched on his skull.

They're just oppressing him because he's small sized.

[derfy]

Nice comic, but *horrible* pun in the title. 3 and a half groans. ;p

[factotum]

Got to love Belkar, everyone's favourite sociopath...

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Excellent. Also 522.

*sigh* So much for my theory they'd have picked up Miko's remains by now.

[T-Ice]

Looks like Haley has forgotten her Lesson in leadership (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0157.html).

[Lex-Kat]

BOOOOOOOOOO!

Worse one yet. Someone needs to teach Belkar a lesson, and I don't care who.

I almost hate him as much as others hate Miko.

Sometimes he's funny. Other times, like now, he's just ":smallfurious:".

[Belkar Rocks]

Heh heh heh. Oh, that Belkar! Will he ever learn?

I hope not. :smallamused:

[rgoodfellow]

Okay... so just how much of Roy's body has to be around for Belkar's mark of Justice not to go off? If it gets disintegrated, what happens? Or what if it is split in three equal portions?

Bear with me being morbid here.

[Meshakhad]

Nice pun in the title.

[SamDerringer]

It´s amazing how Belkar can be a total evil genius and a complete and utter imbecile at the same time... (hey, he IS been carried after all!)

[Szilard]

Yay! I take it we're back to the 3 a weekish schedual?

[Aerysil]

Please don't tell me Mr. Scruffy is using Roy's skull as a sandbox...

[psiryu]

I wonder if Belkar could get away with snapping off one of Roy’s fingers and carrying it around with him. He would technically still be within the MoJ’s boundaries.

Anyway, it’s great to see so many comics though it does normally mean that there won’t be another comic for a little while, or maybe I’m being to pessimistic.

[Fighteer]

@ 522: Hilarious. I love how Haley exploits Tsukiko's weaknesses (lack of skill ranks) and lack of genre savviness.

@ 523: Ah, the Belkster. Love him or hate him, you can't stop laughing at his antics. I wonder what Roy's thinking right now, seeing his decomposing corpse being lugged around in a cart. It does make a wonderful "leash" for the homicidal maniac, though.

And, of course, Haley is learning the challenges of Chaotic Good leadership.

[chibibar]

Remember all this time Belkar do things (regardless of the outcome of good or evil intention) mainly because of Belkar's welfare! :)

All this time he thought he was getting slaves for himself :)

[battleburn]

In the first panel one of Haley's wounds is missing.

That said, I didn't like this one.
At first because I thought about it as mostly filler. Just a joke about how evil he is. And Haley has a really stupid reaction to Belkar's arguments. She is supposed to be the leader in Roy's absence. If she doesn't teach Belkar a lesson he will put everyone in danger. Not only the cooperation of Haley and Belkar is in danger, but Haley is setting a really bad example as a leader for the resistance.
All this is especially bad when you think this is a filler comic.

I know Rich has stated that the jokes come first, the story second, but this really bothered me. And I didn't think it funny at all.

I realize now that it is not filler, but a bit of plot exposition on why Belkar is still in the group. However, the arguments on Haley's behaviour being a bad example and I think very unHaleyish still stand.

I think Belkar is just trying and succeeding in upstaging Haley. I have trouble believing that he really didn't understand what Haley meant.

I hope we will soon see what Roy is thinking about what is happening in Azure City.

-Battleburn

[osyluth]

In the first panel one of Haley's wounds is missing.

That said, I didn't like this one.
At first because I thought about it as mostly filler. Just a joke about how evil he is. And Haley has a really stupid reaction to Belkar's arguments. She is supposed to be the leader in Roy's absence. If she doesn't teach Belkar a lesson he will put everyone in danger. Not only the cooperation of Haley and Belkar is in danger, but Haley is setting a really bad example as a leader for the resistance.
All this is especially bad when you think this is a filler comic.

I know Rich has stated that the jokes come first, the story second, but this really bothered me. And I didn't think it funny at all.

I realize now that it is not filler, but a bit of plot exposition on why Belkar is still in the group. However, the arguments on Haley's behaviour being a bad example and I think very unHaleyish still stand.

I think Belkar is just trying and succeeding in upstaging Haley. I have trouble believing that he really didn't understand what Haley meant.

I hope we will soon see what Roy is thinking about what is happening in Azure City.

-Battleburn

AHHHHH!! He said something bad about OotS! Get him!
Abd the 'Belkar isn't evil' lobby's smoldering ashes are blasted some more!

[hajo]

It's not easy being a leader - more so with 'followers' like Belkar...

[fwiffo]

Was that actually Haley? Or was it Roy in drag? Because Haley said and did exactly same thing as Roy used to say and do. Really, if you take this strip and imagine that Roy was in Haley's place, he could use her lines word for word.

Belkar, as usual, rocks. He-he...

[hajo]

Haley .. is supposed to be the leader in Roy's absence. If she doesn't teach Belkar a lesson he will put everyone in danger. Not only the cooperation of Haley and Belkar is in danger, but Haley is setting a really bad example as a leader for the resistance.


True, as leader of the resistance, Haley will have to do something about Belkar, affirm her position, etc.
We have seen her more effective / convincing in dealing with Belkar, long ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html)...
OTOH, they are in a hurry to take care of Thanh, so I think she is just postponing it.

[Venox]

This latest strip really has me wondering what Roy thinks about how they're handling things - especially his corpse. Hopefully we'll get at the very least, a short little intermission soon from all this Azure City craziness to see how he's holding up. XD

[David Argall]

Was that actually Haley? Or was it Roy in drag? Because Haley said and did exactly same thing as Roy used to say and do. Really, if you take this strip and imagine that Roy was in Haley's place, he could use her lines word for word.

Somebody has to be the straightman.

[dakiwiboid]

Mr. Scruffy's continuing survival and bad-assitude bodes very well for the future.

[Arkenputtyknife]

*sigh* So much for my theory they'd have picked up Miko's remains by now.
They might have; there's just no reason to be carting her around. Though personally, the only thing I want to know about Miko is where exactly her soul ended up.

[Raptor13x]

That was one of the funniest strips in a long time; Belkar is hilarious! :D I love his twisted, evil logic. :D

This is giving me some great ideas for my evil tiefling D&D character. :smallbiggrin:

[Mingchan]

Yay Mr Scruffy!

Belkar reminds me of Jack Sparrow. Both of them don't always do good, and they do just enough evil to make them lovable. AND they both have some good quotes as well.

[pjackson]

This strip explain Belkar's current motivation, further confirming how very evil he is.
It showed Haley goodness.
It also showed that Haley is not as good a leader as Roy, showing why they need Roy back.
The strips with V, Durkan, and Elan on the ship showed how none of them could act as a leader.
The theme since Roy starting scrying on them seems to be to show how disorganised/ineffective they are without him.
It has had some similarities to "It's a Wonderful Life".

[dish]

Indeed ^ I think Haley's always had trouble being a leader.

[pjackson]

Was that actually Haley? Or was it Roy in drag? Because Haley said and did exactly same thing as Roy used to say and do. Really, if you take this strip and imagine that Roy was in Haley's place, he could use her lines word for word.

That is a lot of the point of the strip.
Haley as leader is having the same sort of problems as Roy did.
The difference is that Roy would not have ended up dragging the cart with Belkar riding it.
Roy would not have asked what Belkar was doing as Haley did in the fourth panel.
Roy understands Belkar better than that.

[Kish]

Yay Mr Scruffy!

Belkar reminds me of Jack Sparrow. Both of them don't always do good, and they do just enough evil to make them lovable. AND they both have some good quotes as well.
It's interesting that you find "just enough evil to make them lovable" so much higher for Belkar than for Jack Sparrow.

I'll say one thing for Belkar: If he was a pirate captain, he wouldn't be mutineed on because of being soft-hearted. (Thrown overboard for being random and sadistic, yes.)

[Tauntaun13]

The difference is that Roy would not have ended up dragging the cart with Belkar riding it.

Actually, he could have ended up doing the same. Remember those older strips where he had to stay awake all night on guard duty because he didn't trust that Belkar, Elan or Haley would do a good job of guarding while the rest were sleeping (each for different reasons of course). It's more or less the same situation that Haley faces now.

[Outworlder]

So, Haley is working for Belkar because the other option would be having the slaves do it?

In this case, can we consider Haley to be Belkar's de facto personal slave?

I wonder what else he is going to demand now...

[Blaznak]

So whats the deal with Belkar and Mr. Scruffy? Suddenly they are best buds! Did Belkar get enough ranger to get an animal companion or something?

I also have to wonder... is Belkar REALLY outsmarting Haley or is she just outsmarting herself?

Later!

[RTGoodman]

So whats the deal with Belkar and Mr. Scruffy? Suddenly they are best buds! Did Belkar get enough ranger to get an animal companion or something?

Well, Belkar and Mr. Scruffy go back a long time. See the largest panel in the next-to-the-last row here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html), plus some other places (I think).

Also, Belkar could have had an animal companion a long time ago. Usually, people have joked that he couldn't care enough about anyone but himself to get one, but now he finally found one that suits him (somehow).

[Yoritomo Himeko]

This was a really good strip. Poor Isamu. I'm glad at least Niu got out ok. I'd like to see a little more of her.

I hope this means that Roy's resurrection is at least eminent. I know it won't be in the next few strips, but I hope he comes back soon. Both groups really need Roy to keep everything going.

I wonder if Mr. Scruffy will travel with the OOTS now.

So that's why Belkar came along. He wanted the slaves for himself. :smallamused: I'm sure Haley will give him his comeuppance in the next strip.

I really enjoyed this strip. I can't wait for the next one!

[Groundhog]

Yeah, once she's got the rest of the resistance (For we are...THE RESISTANCE!) behind her, maybe all of them combined can get Belkar to behave. I know this has been said before, but I can't get over how clueless Belkar was acting about freeing the slaves rather than just transfering ownership! *laughs head off, then quickly grabs it and puts it back on her neck before she dies*:smallbiggrin:

[Arkenputtyknife]

I know this has been said before, but I can't get over how clueless Belkar was acting about freeing the slaves rather than just transfering ownership!
He wasn't being clueless, he was being evil!

[ref]

Now that forums are back to normal, I can comment. Belkar deserves a big corrective NOW.

[Level20Commoner]

I know this has been said before, but I can't get over how clueless Belkar was acting about freeing the slaves rather than just transferring ownership!

I agree with Mr. Putty. He isn't clueless, he is utterly amoral and physically incapable of empathy towards other living things. If he were to have a proper trial for his alleged murder of the Azure City turnkey those facts would make a great defense for his conduct. Not guilty by reason of insanity/mental defect. Of course, if his pride would not allow him to admit that he is insane or he is unaware of his condition, he could simply say that he is a fiendish halfling and make a plea of "not guilty by reason of racial inclination".

Since fiends and fiendish creatures are irresistibly compelled by the very fabric of their beings to make decisions and undertake actions based upon what will benefit them the most, and that they are furthermore incapable of weighing the consequences of potential actions since there can only ever be one course of action which will benefit them the most, they cannot and should not be beholden to the laws and ordinances of a society which were created with the implicit assumption that the individual persons which constitute said society have acknowledged that as a condition of living in and/or being a member of said society they will regulate their actions so as to give each other member of said society a duty of non-violence and any other personal liberties that said society may deem worthy of protecting, and that said individual members of society have further acknowledged that if they act in such a way that they can be determined to have disregarded the previously acknowledged duty of non-violence to other persons that the authority/ies which governs said society will use every means at its/their disposal to remove said individual from society at large and/or punish said individual in a manner to be proscribed by law. :smallcool:

[pjackson]

Actually, he could have ended up doing the same. Remember those older strips where he had to stay awake all night on guard duty because he didn't trust that Belkar, Elan or Haley would do a good job of guarding while the rest were sleeping (each for different reasons of course). It's more or less the same situation that Haley faces now.

Roy might well have ended up dragging the cart (as the strongest he would be the best man for the job) - but no way would he have let Belkar get away with riding it.

[pjackson]

He wasn't being clueless, he was being evil!

He was being both.
He is evil and does not understand good.

[Neopolis]

That's low wisdom for ya!

[Rheb]

Best comic ever!:smallbiggrin:

[Daen]

Heh! Go Belkar for saving Mr. Scruffy! Every good supervillain with plans for world domination needs a white kitten! Mrrrow! :belkar:

It also fits really well with the bald or balding theme, lol!

But... is Mr. Scruffy a Persian or Angoran kitty? Hmmm! Enquiring minds want to know! Heh!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Blofeldpleasance67.jpg/200px-Blofeldpleasance67.jpg

[Mojique]

two days in a row of new comics:smallbiggrin:
It's because there are no special effects on this page. :smallwink:

[Geno9999]

GENO CAT! great comic and stop me if you heard this before... Roy looks like the most rotten thing ever. except for run over bunnies *shudder*.
All together now... GENO CAT! Does 9999 damage on face and doesn't use FP, just a cat:smallsmile:

[nybbler]

He was being both.
He is evil and does not understand good.

He understands good all right. He was being disingenuous and pretending not to in order to irritate Haley.

[Groundhog]

...What he said. I meant that it was hilarious that he was acting so clueless on purpose.

[Tamas]

Little off topic: has anyone guessed Nui's class yet?

[David Argall]

Likely she is just a warrior

[Doctor Zuber]

Hopefully this will shut the Chaotic Neutral Belkar faction for a while. I honestly do not understand those people. =P If anything Belkar is slipping further into evil now, but he has always been rather firmly planted on the evil side of the fence.

[Lorna]

Belkar's reactions were expected

Haley's on the other hand......

"...free hermaphrodites if there are any here."

I almost snarfed my morning coffee!

Thanks for the laugh!

[stickygoo]

I think Haley needs to be more clear on her meaning of "Free". When Haley's telling Belkar that the slaves are free men and women (and other...) he must be thinknig free,as it in "buy one get one free", or "free to the first 50 customers" rather than "land of the free" or "free at last, free at last, thank God almighty I'm free at last!"

Then again... he probably doesn't even get that concept of Free.

[factotum]

Hopefully this will shut the Chaotic Neutral Belkar faction for a while.

If Rich saying, in so many words, that Belkar is evil doesn't stop the naysayers...or, for that matter, strip #489, where it was showed that Belkar has an evil rating of several hundred kilonazis even WITH Roy and the others holding him back...then this isn't going to manage it. Sorry to disappoint. :smallwink:

[ref]

I was on the CN camp... until he set my beloved Miko in flames.

[balor]

Great comic, Giant! :biggrin:

[John Campbell]

I was on the CN camp... until he set my beloved Miko in flames.

Are you kidding? That was the most awesome thing Belkar's ever done.

[battleburn]

Exactly, I think he got redemption points for that one.

[Superglucose]

This just proves that Haley is Good....Wonderful strip

I honestly believe that slavery isn't a choice between good and evil. Was Thomas Jefferson evil? Was George Washington evil? Seems like a stretch to say "slavery=evil." I think that slavery is more a question of law versus chaos, freedom versus organization.

In a lawful society, for instance, the strict rigid code of slavery would exist: some people simply are in that class. The difference between LG and LE would be this: LG treats their slaves with dignity and respect, feeding them a good amount, clothing them in good clothes, etc. etc. Acting with compassion. LE would beat their slaves, treat them horribly, starve, etc. them.

That Belkar wanted to keep the slaves in servitude, diminish them, and all because he didn't want to do his own laundry? That's evil.

That Haley wanted to free the slaves because she believes that all people deserve to be free? That's chaotic.

However if she had freed the slaves because she believed it would put them in moral debt to her (as they are part of a very lawful society) and thus she could use them for her own purposes? That's evil.

But if she freed the slaves so they would be in moral debt to her to free the city? As that one Celestial said: "Doing chaotic things for a lawful purpose seems pretty neutral to me." Same thing in my opinion follows: doing an evil thing (freeing the slaves to further her own goals) for a good purpose (her goals are 'good) is a neutral thing. So imo that would be neutral.

Finally, if she freed the slaves because she couldn't stand the way that the slaves were being treated? That's good.

I am not a fan of this comic because it makes 'slavery' and anyone who has/had slaves as 'evil' when evil doesn't mean 'restricts freedom.' Slavery in my opinion is more lawful, though it's too complex an issue to be boiled down.

[factotum]

I am not a fan of this comic because it makes 'slavery' and anyone who has/had slaves as 'evil' when evil doesn't mean 'restricts freedom.' Slavery in my opinion is more lawful, though it's too complex an issue to be boiled down.

Er, sorry, how do you figure that one? We've seen precisely ONE example of slavery in the entire comic. As you freely admit, slavery is a complex topic, and it's hardly possible to cover every aspect of it in a single scene! If you ignore alignments and just look at personality, Belkar is selfish and malevolent, Haley actually likes helping people (see the interlude with the dirt farmers way back)--just on those grounds Haley would want to rescue the slaves while Belkar would rather see them put to use, especially if that use is helping him out.

[Alfryd]

Exactly, I think he got redemption points for that one.
Right, because seeking to destroy lives in a fashion which cannot possibly materially benefit you is right up there in the Exalted handbook.


...when evil doesn't mean 'restricts freedom.'
Firstly, there has never, ever, been a system of slavery that was mutually beneficial between sentient beings. Not ever. Secondly, curtailing freedoms is an Evil. It's in the SRD definition.
"Evil implies hurting, killing, or oppressing others."
Explain to me again how 'do whatever I say, or I will hurt you until you think better of it," does not count as 'oppression?'

[Razorray]

Great comic series.
i just started reading last week.
nice job

[taraxia]

I honestly believe that slavery isn't a choice between good and evil. Was Thomas Jefferson evil?

Yes.


Was George Washington evil?

Yes.


Seems like a stretch to say "slavery=evil."

Tell that to a slave and see what they have to say about it.

It's BS to take people we like for other reasons and say "They had slaves!" and therefore slavery isn't evil. (FWIW, most of the Americans who reflexively say "George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were *great* people because they're our Founding Fathers!" are people who know almost nothing about Jefferson and Washington as human beings, rather than faces on currency.)

Albert Einstein beat his wife. That's an evil thing to do. I don't know if it makes Albert Einstein himself "evil", overall, but I'm not going to excuse it just because Einstein is famous and did good things.

ETA: Of all the American Founding Fathers, Jefferson is the one I like the very, very least. He was a selfish hypocrite who had no understanding of the consequences of his actions and thought of himself as better than everyone else around him. It may not be fair to say it of someone whom I only know from books, but if any one of them was evil, he was.

Washington I'm more neutral about. He was, well, a neutral person. I don't see anything about him I would be willing to outright call "good". (He was "good" in the sense of being "good at his job" -- a war hero who did his part to keep the nation together because it's what people asked him to do -- but good as a *person*, in the moral sense? Enh.)

[Superglucose]

Tell that to a slave and see what they have to say about it.


Mk. I will. How about some of the slaves of the very rich in anciet greece/rome, who had a chance to make something of their life because of a benevolent owner? Show me evidence that slavery=evil. And don't start talking about point of view, from my point of view my parents were evil when I was a teenager cause they made me do all sorts of chores and wouldn't let me stay up past 12. Arguing "well from the slave's point of view it's evil so therefore slavery is evil" is flawed reasoning.


Er, sorry, how do you figure that one? We've seen precisely ONE example of slavery in the entire comic. As you freely admit, slavery is a complex topic, and it's hardly possible to cover every aspect of it in a single scene!

I meant this comic itself, I wasn't a fan of this strip. Sorry for the miscommunication.